View Full Version : Virgin Australia's plans for 2013

20th Jan 2013, 05:26
Howdy all, well after a very interesting and diversive year for Virgin in 2012, what are the projections for 2013?
I must admit I didn't see the Skywest or Tiger announcments coming and Im not entirerly convinced by either so where will 2013 see Virgin Heading?
I thought there would have been a much bigger push into Asia but that doesn't seem to be on the cards so where next?

20th Jan 2013, 06:29
No where.

New uniforms
New paint scheme
Fleet investment

Virgin must first return a solid profit. Not a half year good, forward looking bad scenario we have been seeing. After all the recent capital investment that solid profit is a must before you will see any new changes at Virgin.

All investment and expansion will be through Tiger and the ATR fleet.

20th Jan 2013, 06:34
Bull Shit my good man.

20th Jan 2013, 07:55
I saw the XR deal as soon as they bought their first stake and decided to get XR to operate for them...

Fleet investment - I foresee an announcement with respect to the long haul fleet, my tip is the 789...and also a further investment into the E190 fleet to relieve F100s for FIFO work.

I also see a reshuffle of the B77W route network with an announcement to do with Abu Dhabi.

Several international lounge openings in MEL/SYD/BNE.

A330 tickets for VA engineers...

Shall be an interesting year I say!

20th Jan 2013, 08:43
There were only 2 ways the DJ/XR tie-up was going to go. Virgin aquires XR, or XR goes under.

Not sure if it was the original intent for either party, but blind Freddy could see that happening from day one!

As for the year ahead? I think Wedcue has made a very valid point. Good luck DJ, I feel the direction is right, but certainly some challenges ahead.

20th Jan 2013, 10:25
All they have to do is do a good job.

JB has set a pretty good line in the sand. Many of us small corporate flyers are swinging over.

I have swung. sorry to say that to all my QF friends, many pilots and LAMEs some of whome I had a BBQ lunch with today.

It is sad to see but that's business.

There are a lot of people who now prefer VA over QF and as time goes by the tide will turn and AJ has lost the plot.

If simply loyal folk like me turn over....the easy ones are already on their way.

Sorry to say it.

PS, and yes some of my friends who are career QF flyers are not bothering either..... VA is their first choice now. And some Chairmanship Lounge (long termers) have lost loyalty too. It is too late. And these guys spend more with QF in a year privately that most staff earn gross. So high yield pax. AJ does not get it.

Howard Hughes
22nd Jan 2013, 06:50
So high yield pax. AJ does not get it.
High yield pax? You mean one who buys bags, priority boarding and a beverage? ;)

Jack Ranga
22nd Jan 2013, 07:08
I haven't bought priority boarding ;) And I don't buy beverages :cool: I do enjoy a fine drop from the bar occasionally ;) And I certainly don't pay for my bags :D

22nd Jan 2013, 21:11
Current Xr flights become DJ flights from March, I have a couple of bookings in my possession. Using the DJ online/mobile checkin system. ATR72's becoming a frequent sight at SkyWest's maintainence hanger at YPPH; there were two there last night nosed in, one had flaps extended and strobes on, undergoing some checks? Still just a stopover on the ferry flight from Europe, or will we see them replacing the venerable F-50's soon?Do any SkyWest people have anything to share on this?

22nd Jan 2013, 22:57
DJ is no more - VA is the code.

23rd Jan 2013, 03:44

Looking at the above ticket, it may be that Skywest will retain DJ numbers? Or, perhaps, only in the short term.

23rd Jan 2013, 06:45
When did you purchase that RANMAR? If you purchased pre cutover then of course it ain't going to change...

23rd Jan 2013, 10:07
It was purchased by our travel dept: I don't have the receipt on this computer, but seem to recall it appeared around xmas/new year?

Update-purchased 30th December

Going Nowhere
23rd Jan 2013, 10:50
DJ have codeshared XR flights for quite a while now.

Eastwest Loco
23rd Jan 2013, 12:15
VA has just cut over to the Sabre GDS which makes them much easier to sell (once you work out the cardboard and string fare rules) and this is a major plus for them.

I asked the question earlier this week if we are able to remove the UO tax (Australian GST) from the fare as we can with QF if the passenger is continuing overseas on a seperate tickets. We simply load the international ticket number in the endorsements area and that can be checked with checkin staff if deemed prudent.

Reply came back 24 hours or so later stating "you can do it if is stated in the GDS fare rule" which basically says "we have no idea". That was a non answer from people who are yet to get used to playing with the big boys and in the deep end of the pool.

Overall I think what they have done is very logical and positive, but the culture still is not yet there and not enough old heads are at the top.

This is one fairly basic query which was answered with a handpass to info in the new system without really telling me anything as the info was not in the fare rule load.

A positive move, but nobody on the front line who has fought with GDS systems like Sabre, Galileo, Taarsan, Ansamatic, SITA, TIAS, Qantam, BABS and God knows how many others over the years without the "no training" pull down boxes.

I look forward to see how it all goes - in the washup it is a big plus from the Travel Agency side, as from those other than the bucket shops it makes VA much more attractive and quick and easy to sell.

Best all


10th Feb 2013, 01:07
So it looks like a quiet year for VA this year then, nothing joining or leaving the fleet?

10th Feb 2013, 02:00
2 new A330's in 2013, a couple of additional 737's

Goat Whisperer
10th Feb 2013, 10:04
.... and a fair handful of ATRs.

or if you look at it one way, 18 Fokkers and one A320.

I'm not sure it will continue to operate a single A320 for much longer. Two types in the 100 seat jet category will continue for a while though.

armchair quarterback
10th Feb 2013, 13:15
ah its always good fun hearing the rhetoric. 5 F100s for the price of 1 ejet? simple economics when considering the DR of the ejet fleet.

As for the airbus, maybe the westerners can confirm but the jungle drums are beating 4. The lads from TLS have been trying to get the SA machine to VA for quite some time, up against the qlink jets it will be a sound economical choice.

10th Feb 2013, 18:52
Sorry, too cryptic.

What is the SA machine and 4 of what?

12th Feb 2013, 11:20
Next XR A320 is due next month is it not?

17th Feb 2013, 07:58
VPD has been repainted and re-entered service today on the SYD-LAX run. VOZ has ferried SIN for deep maintenance and a repaint.

17th Feb 2013, 09:11
VPD has been repainted and re-entered service today on the SYD-LAX run. VOZ has ferried SIN for deep maintenance and a repaint.

Really! You mean we managed to ferry an aircraft to SIN without the help of the three GFI's. Wonders will never cease. :}

17th Feb 2013, 19:42
Geez I must be getting old

I can't keep up with all the new lingo!

SA machines, GFI's....

Ken Borough
18th Feb 2013, 04:21
"VPD has been repainted and re-entered service today on the SYD-LAX run. VOZ has ferried SIN for deep maintenance and a repaint."

Why has all hell broken loose when QF paints and maintains off-shore while there is relative silence when Virgin does the same? Is it because VirGin is a foreign-owned entity?

18th Feb 2013, 06:09
I'm to sure about it but i would guess that virgin has always done that, so their engineers aren't losing jobs because they were never theirs to lose.

QF on the other hand are making engineers redundant and sending maintenance overseas.

Red Jet
18th Feb 2013, 08:14
Why has all hell broken loose when QF paints and maintains off-shore while there is relative silence when Virgin does the same? Is it because VirGin is a foreign-owned entity?

I think independent paint shops, able to accommodate the 777-300ER are in somewhat short supply in Oz, wouldn't you say Ken?

18th Feb 2013, 08:37
DJ executive are up front with what they do and then actually do it.

Not sure Rat Execs could claim the same.

19th Feb 2013, 03:24
Why has all hell broken loose when QF paints and maintains off-shore while there is relative silence when Virgin does the same? Is it because VirGin is a foreign-owned entity?

Wasn't there some announcement a while back that the maintenance was going to be done in Sydney?

Righty Tighty
21st Feb 2013, 07:55
Virgin Tech will start A330 training on Mon the 25th in BNE,
There will be 2 x B2 courses and 2 x B1 courses running over the next few months.
VT will be taking care of there own A330's in Bne to start with, then expand to other ports taking the work back in house off John Holland.
At least JB is serious about expanding the capabilities of his engineering team and creating a bit more job security for his workers.Well Done

25th Feb 2013, 09:46
VHFNA, Skywest F50 ferried to YBTL for a repaint.. Another chapter in aviation history slowly closes.

Transition Layer
25th Feb 2013, 23:17
For a "brief" history on VH-FNA...


...the paint must be starting to get quite thick!!! :eek:

25th Feb 2013, 23:29
Wedcue is on the money, post #2.

Virgin's profit falls by 56pc | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/virgins-profit-falls-by-56pc/story-fnda1bsz-1226585708593)

VIRGIN Australia's first half profit has slumped by 56 per cent but it expects to improve its underlying performance despite challenging economic conditions.
The airline made a net profit of $23 million in the six months to December 31, down from $51.8 million in the previous corresponding period.

The difference was mainly the result of Qantas' industrial dispute in the previous corresponding period, which benefited Virgin.

Virgin today also said the carbon tax had a $24.4 million impact on its profit in the six months to December.

The company's underlying profit before tax was $61 million in the six months to December, down from $96.1 million in the previous corresponding period.

Virgin maintained its forecast of a full year underlying profit before tax being higher than the previous year's $82.5 million.

26th Feb 2013, 11:01
Virgin's boss John Borghetti speaks with Ticky Fullerton - The Business - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-26/virgins-boss-john-borghetti-speaks-with-ticky/4541756)

26th Feb 2013, 11:52
An eloquent, immaculately presented, intelligent gentleman.

I enjoyed the comment regarding AJ; “Well then, he has nothing to worry about.”

VA is in very good hands and the Tiger folk are very, very lucky that JB is taking over and putting a big vacuum through the place.

As he says in closing, Tiger will grow to take on JQ which must therefore include A330s.

Game on. :ok:

Jack Ranga
26th Feb 2013, 12:05
And the look on his face at 3mins, 15 seconds is priceless :D

I know who I'd rather work for ;)

26th Feb 2013, 12:18
Great for tiger. Great for Skywest. If you're a VOZ pilot though, make sure you start working on integrating seniority- Y scale* type deal should work.

The possible scenario is this. Expansion at VOZ drop back to virtually nothing and Tiger and skywest expand rapidly. Without some form of integration, as the others expand rapidly you'll then find yourself as a junior F/O suddenly a decade or more away from a command whilst a newbie who joins Tiger 6 months from now is a captain in 3 years.

(They'll probably also tell you that you deserve to be cut off at the knees too but that's a complete other discussion. :E )

(* Happy to explain if need be).

26th Feb 2013, 14:00
CASA will absolutely require some new, qualified and sturdy Flt Ops girders before Mr Biggs proposed rapid expansion and particularly the A330 inclusion occurs.

I suspect the backroom deals required VA to expand Tiger instead of launching a new LCC AOC, which would have cost much less than the Tiger buy-in.

The baggage history is the hidden cost Mr Biggs, be careful, it has sunk other ships.

Nothing bites as deep as a Tiger sensing its end.

my oleo is extended
26th Feb 2013, 21:17
Interesting financial figures?? How could the carbon tax be blamed for around $23 million of lost profit when they added a carbon surcharge which offset that cost onto the fare payer some time ago??

26th Feb 2013, 22:53
Virgin Will Drop Tiger Deal If Capacity Increase Mandated

By David Fickling - Feb 27, 2013 12:01 AM GMT+1100.

Virgin Australia Holdings Ltd. (VAH), Australia’s second-largest carrier, will drop a bid for its next-largest rival if the country’s antitrust regulator forces it to increase fleet numbers to a specified level.

Virgin won’t give “commitments that are unrealistic” in order to buy control of budget airline Tiger Airways Holdings Ltd. (TGR)’s local unit, Chief Executive Officer John Borghetti said in an interview yesterday. The carrier reported first-half profit that missed analyst estimates amid competition with Qantas Airways Ltd. and the impact of a carbon tax.

A cancellation of the takeover would deal a blow to Borghetti’s plans to challenge Qantas’s 65 percent share of the Australian market. Virgin has added business class seats, upgraded lounges and extended flights to outback areas as it seeks to win business from the country’s largest operator, which has the biggest shares of leisure flights, corporate accounts and routes in remote areas.

“If there is anything that stands in its way that doesn’t make it attractive for us, I have no problem in not continuing” the Tiger deal, Borghetti said by phone. “If there are conditions imposed on the deal that I don’t believe is prudent for this company to commit to, we will walk.”

‘Muted Competition’

Australia’s antitrust regulator said Feb. 7 that Virgin’s attempt to buy 60 percent of Tiger Australia risked “muted competition following the reduction in the number of airline groups within Australia.” The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission would be more inclined to allow the deal if it was convinced that Virgin would boost Tiger’s fleet from 11 at present to 35 by 2018, according to the regulator.

Tiger’s largest shareholder, Singapore Airlines Ltd. (SIA), is helping to fund the takeover through buying A$105 million ($108 million) of newly-issued Virgin shares, giving it a 10 percent stake in the carrier. Borghetti’s also spending about A$95 million in cash and shares buying Skywest Airlines Ltd. (SKYW), which operates regional routes mainly in Western Australia state.

Virgin “faces challenges in turning around the mounting losses within Tiger,” Russell Shaw, an analyst at Macquarie Group Ltd. in Sydney, wrote in a note to clients Feb. 1.

Tiger does not plan to and won’t seek new investors for Tiger Australia if the regulator disapproves the venture with Virgin, the budget carrier said in a statement Feb. 7. “Virgin is the right party to partner Tiger, and will be able to strengthen Tiger Australia,” the airline said in the statement.

Virgin shares slumped the most in almost six months yesterday after the company said net income fell 56 percent to A$23 million in the six months through December, missing the A$50 million median estimate of six analysts surveyed by Bloomberg News. The stock closed down 5.8 percent at 41 Australian cents, compared with a 1 percent drop in the benchmark S&P/ASX 200 index.

Virgin Australia doubled the proportion of seats filled in business class as it signed up corporate customers, Borghetti said, without giving specific numbers. The carrier now gets more than 20 percent of sales from corporate customers, while Qantas (QAN) says it has an 84 percent share of revenue in the market.

Hugh Jarse
27th Feb 2013, 00:59
Keg, a deal with Skywest pilots sounds reasonable/feasible, should the company wish it to go ahead sometime in the future.

However, unlike the relationship between JQ and QF (a wholly owned subsidiary), VA are only buying a share of Tiger. I can't see how it could work at the present time in its present form.

Once again, the company has to have the will to allow this to happen. Negotiations are under way for VAA-VAI-VANZ to merge seniority lists, so there is something happening on that front. I won't go into the detail on here, suffice to say it is being facilitated by the company. :ok:

27th Feb 2013, 06:08
Good to hear Hugh. I do worry about those who may have joined VOZ in the last 3-5 years. The demographic at VOZ is very different to Qantas and if the music stops I don't think projected retirements will mean advancement into the other seat anytime short of a decade and a half- perhaps more!

27th Feb 2013, 06:38
Bundaberg and Moranbah are 2 new destinations to start this year using ATR72s.

Virgin Australia Announces New Service Between Brisbane and Moranbah | Virgin Australia (http://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/about-us/media/2013/VA_ANNOUNCES_BNE_MORANBAH/)

28th Feb 2013, 00:49
my oleo is extended says:
Interesting financial figures?? How could the carbon tax be blamed for around $23 million of lost profit when they added a carbon surcharge which offset that cost onto the fare payer some time ago??

Actually Virgin does not include the carbon tax in the ticket price. Customers may VOLUNTEER to offset the emissions. The company however is exposed to the tax on all emissions whether they are paid voluntarily or not.

It is pretty clear that very few customers volunteer to pay.