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stuckgear
19th Jan 2013, 18:38
'I am told I will hang for my faith in Jesus': American pastor faces death sentence in Iran - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9812656/I-am-told-I-will-hang-for-my-faith-in-Jesus-American-pastor-faces-death-sentence-in-Iran.html)


An American Christian pastor faces a possible death sentence in Iran after prosecutors accused him of harming national security on charges he and his supporters claim amount to religious persecution.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02456/Abedini_2456183b.jpg

Mr Abdini was building an orphanage near the city of Rasht


Saeed Abedini, 32, who is Iranian born, is expected to go on trial next week before a revolutionary tribunal in Tehran in a hearing presided over by a judge blacklisted by the European Union for handing down harsh verdicts.

US officials have already voiced concerns over the fate of Mr Abedini, who has been held in custody since July 2011 after being arrested while on a visit to Iran from America.

His wife, Najmeh, says he has suffered beatings during interrogation and has expressed fears for his life in letters to her.

"This is the process in my life today: one day I am told I will be freed and allowed to see my kids on Christmas (which was a lie) and the next day I am told I will hang for my faith in Jesus," Mr Abedini, a father-of-two, wrote in one letter. "One day there are intense pains after beatings in interrogations, the next day they are nice to you and offer you candy."

The origins of the charges against Mr Abdini are not clear. But the American Centre for Law and Justice, a Christian advocacy group founded by the evangelist preacher, Pat Robertson, said it was connected with starting a home church movement.

"His court file indicated that this national security charge was directly related to his work starting a house church movement in Iran," the organisation said in a statement.
Harming national security is a capital crime under Iran's legal statute. Critics say it is vaguely defined and used to suppress opponents of the country's Islamic regime.
Mr Abdini, who converted to Christianity at the age of 20, was building an orphanage near the city of Rasht on the Caspian Sea, fuelled by a belief that the Bible teaches helping widows and orphans, according to his wife.
He was detained in 2009 but later released after agreeing to sign a commitment not to engage in religious activities such as working in underground churches.
Mr Abidini had travelled to Iran nine times since his detention before being arrested again. "He had no worries that he would be arrested, believing that he kept his end of the promise and that the government would keep their end," she told AFP.

Victor Inox
19th Jan 2013, 19:09
Proof again that the spoken or written word is often more powerful than the sword.

Of course, the most glaring issue here is how Christian preachers are treated in a rabid Islamic country, whereas Islamic hate preachers in the UK are offered free housing for themselves and their family, plus have a million $ thrown after them in legal aid.

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 20:08
Or proof of how some people are such imbeciles, they deserve the Darwin Award they will be awarded posthumously.

After all, doing what he has done is rather stupid, for the laws in other countries are not the same as "we" adhere to. And he knew what the penalty could be after being put under an order that said he couldn't do what he did, so.........


The world is better without people like him, the ones who believe their faith and beliefs will protect them against anyone and anything.

I got the popcorn, so let the mouth foaming and heart bleeding commence, as we all know it will.

BenThere
19th Jan 2013, 20:16
After all, doing what he has done is rather stupid.......

Maybe, but that's how you get to be a Saint.

West Coast
19th Jan 2013, 20:20
Hellsbrink

Perhaps there's room for more than one opinion on this. Yeah, perhaps he's not the fastest plane in the hanger, but hate to see him lose his life for speaking out on something he feels strongly about.

Milo Minderbinder
19th Jan 2013, 20:41
He doesn't actually need to have done anything.
Just converting from Islam to Christianity is enough to get him tried and executed in Iran
He was risking his life just simply entering the country

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 20:42
And he knew what the consequences would be for said behaviour based solely on his own interpretation of the Bible. He had been given a clear warning, yet still continued doing something HE invented as "truth".

No sympathy, he brought it on himself. But you can let your heart bleed over this if you want. Mine won't.

NWSRG
19th Jan 2013, 20:49
Or proof of how some people are such imbeciles

Hellsbrink,

What if the Christian viewpoint is actually the right one? That our time on this little planet is merely a journey, where each of us has to choose a pathway...either faith in Jesus, or no faith. That our eternity hangs on that decision...is he still an imbecile?

Now, if you don't believe in the Christian faith, then you'll probably just float through life without worrying too much about eternity, but it would be a pretty tough wake-up to get there and find you were wrong...

This man stands on his faith, and is trying to share it with his countrymen. God bless him.

eastern wiseguy
19th Jan 2013, 21:18
What if the Christian viewpoint is actually the right one?

And what if you are ALL wrong. This numb nut will throw his ONE life away based on the random scribblings of bronze age shepherds?

Sympathy...none.

obgraham
19th Jan 2013, 21:26
So, let me understand:

You lot figure the culprit here is the murderee, not the murderer.

Well, at least you've made yourselves clear.

Lon More
19th Jan 2013, 21:34
Obviously prepared to go the whole distance for his principles

NWSRG
19th Jan 2013, 22:30
And what if you are ALL wrong. This numb nut will throw his ONE life away based on the random scribblings of bronze age shepherds?

Eastern, there's plenty of evidence (accepted by secular historians) that Jesus did walk on earth...just as there is archeological evidence of a mass crossing of the Red Sea. There's a plaque in the Vatican with the line of Popes inscribed on it right back to St Peter...a direct line to Jesus...that made me realise just how real this is. As a Christian, it happens to make a lot of sense to me...it seems to be the most natural and obvious explanation of who we are. The Big Bang Theory is a great comedy, but doesn't cut it for me as more rational than the existence of God as a creator.

Temp Spike
20th Jan 2013, 04:26
Well, that's why they call it Faith.

eastern wiseguy
20th Jan 2013, 05:36
Jesus did walk on earth

Perhaps so.....but the son of a deity?...who has a specific interest in an insignificant little rock in the unfashionable end of the galaxy(one of how many galaxies?) ...don't buy it any more than tooth fairies,santa claus,or leprechauns.

As far as accepting Christianity as the one true faith.....well our pastor is in the right place to argue the toss.

.just as there is archeological evidence of a mass crossing of the Red Sea.

Really? Not a Sea of Reeds (Yam Suph) .

The point is that none of this may have happened. It may be that there has been a collection of tales passed from family to family over the years in an attempt to rationalise the world around them. The attempts to put it all down in a series of "books" translated from the original languages and to then declare it as the word of god is nonsense.

To then stake your life on your imaginary friend being the "true" imaginary friend...well that's faith I guess. I'll happily take my chances with eternity.

Mark Twain said“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”



He's got that right.

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 06:54
So, let me understand:

You lot figure the culprit here is the murderee, not the murderer.

Well, at least you've made yourselves clear.

Let me make it easier for you to understand.

He's not dead, he's only been told he MIGHT face the death penalty, not that he has been given the death penalty.


And NSWRG, it don't matter what the "right" path is in the world of imaginary friends, the bottom line is that idiot was ordered by the courts NOT to do what he was doing or face stiff penalties, something he ignored because he believed his beliefs were more important. Even Ray Charles could see how that was going to end. And I don't think you want us to get started on the Christian faith, unless you are willing to tell us how a mistranslated mistranslation of the interpretation of some scrolls is shown to be accurate (they actually crossed the RED SEA? News to them, and everyone else) and you can tell us many bulls you have sacrificed in the last year as well as tell us your views on equality for women, homosexuals and the disabled.

Mac the Knife
20th Jan 2013, 07:11
I think most religions are idiotic but at least Buddhism and Judaism are non-proselytising.

Mac

:sad:

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 07:47
Obviously prepared to go the whole distance for his principles

Bigger spuds than many on here and thats a fact :ok:

radeng
20th Jan 2013, 08:07
We know that 'justice' and 'Iran' are oxymorons. It isn't that long ago that they hanged a 16 year old girl, despite having signed a treaty banning capital punishment for anyone under 18.

Taking these 'judges' out and shooting them is far too kind.

West Coast
20th Jan 2013, 08:16
Now there's some irony radeng...I think.

I'm a US citizen, so I need 3 letters of referral before I'm allowed to conclusively label something as ironic.

Lon More
20th Jan 2013, 10:53
Maybe, but that's how you get to be a Saint.

Googoo St. Alban for incredible stupidity or bravery, dependant on your point of view.

El Grifo
20th Jan 2013, 12:30
Heard a good one a few days back.

"If the bible is so great, WTF did god not give it to eveyone"

El G.

Matari
20th Jan 2013, 12:45
Only a thoroughly Modern Man would think that an original question.

El Grifo
20th Jan 2013, 13:42
Hey Matari ! It's been a while.

All the best for 2013 :ok:

bnt
20th Jan 2013, 15:01
Bigger spuds than many on here and thats a fact :ok:
I dunno about that. If you're "high" on religion, and believe no lasting harm will come to you in that state, how is that different in principle to taking LSD and trying to fly off a cliff? Your natural risk/reward judgement is severely compromised in both cases. :suspect:

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 15:06
Bigger spuds than many on here and thats a fact

Bigger spuds? Nope.

Fewer brain cells, since he went back and did what he was ordered NOT to do again in a country that is known for being less than tolerant to that sort of thing, especially by foreigners? Most definitely.......

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 15:12
A man has beliefs, he sticks to those beliefs and is therefore an idiot.........

With logic like that it's a wonder man ever got to where we are today.

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 15:21
When they are irrational beliefs, like how he must please his God as only he believes that helping women and orphans will make his God pleased, and then illegally does so in a country where he, himself, was ordered to neither do such a thing again or associate with those who do in said country, then he is far lower down the IQ scale than an "idiot".

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 15:29
Using that crazy logic then everyone who ever stood up to authority because of what they believe in must be an idiot, Walesa, Luther King, Pankhurst the bloody list is endless of folk who stood up to be counted and the world is a better place for them doing so.

stuckgear
20th Jan 2013, 15:29
I'm a US citizen, so I need 3 letters of referral before I'm allowed to conclusively label something as ironic.

have your people contact my people and we'll see what we can do.

Victor Inox
20th Jan 2013, 15:52
Is this thread about calling people stupid if they do not submit to a religious dictatorship or is it about the ugly side of the religion that likes to label itself as "the religion of tolerance"?

If people like Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox etc. had simply shut up in the face of religious suppression, we in Europe would still believe in the infallibility of the pope.

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 16:17
Some places still are, VI. Why, just today there was a report of at least one Catholic hospital in Germany turning away a rape victim because they didn't want to have to deal with an "unwanted baby", and we all know about similar things in Ireland.

And SFFP

Using that crazy logic then everyone who ever stood up to authority because of what they believe in must be an idiot, Walesa, Luther King, Pankhurst the bloody list is endless of folk who stood up to be counted and the world is a better place for them doing so.

He was neither standing up to authority nor standing up to be counted. He was not trying to somehow "protest" to "make change" but was simply being an ass who thought that because he was "religious" he could do whatever he wanted despite the laws of the country he was in. Your analogy is a load of crap, and is irrelevant.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 16:25
He was neither standing up to authority nor standing up to be counted. He was not trying to somehow "protest" to "make change" but was simply being an ass who thought that because he was "religious" he could do whatever he wanted despite the laws of the country he was in. Your analogy is a load of crap, and is irrelevant.

I wonder how many folk have thought that same thing over the years whilst brave men and women have put their lives on the line to start the process of change.

How many white folk must have thought MLK as nothing more than an ass for having a dream :=

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 16:31
But he wasn't trying to make a change, sffp, he was merely satisfying his own urge to "please" his own God in some way to make him feel "holier than thou".

You merely have to read the report to see that, and your latest attempt to somehow turn this idiot into some sort of saint just shows you do not comprehend what he had been doing for it was nothing to do with any sort of "freedoms" but was merely self-satisfaction, something to make HIM feel better about appeasing his God.

But you know that anyway... ;)

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 16:35
Thankfully, as history shows there have been plenty of good people that have seen things in a differant light :ok:

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 16:41
And, as history will tell you, there has also been an incredible amount of assholes who willingly did what this man has done. And since they also did things for their own self-satisfaction, so they would feel "closer to God", they got their wish too. It's just that they didn't envisage being "closer to God" in the way it ended up. Just ask some of the missionaries who ended up in the cooking pot.....

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 16:43
Now missionaries were all idiots an ass's.............

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 16:55
And what was this idiot doing in Iran again?

Oh yes, spreading the word of the Christian God whilst claiming to be doing "good" for the poor people in the country.........


Hmmmmmm..............


BTW. You said it, sffp, not me. Nice of you to see reality though.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 17:02
Just a thought but where is your cut off between belief=idiot as opposed to belief=not idiot?

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 17:03
I thought that was clear to even you, just read the posts and you'll see why this idiot arrested in Iran is an idiot.

It's not hard, you can manage to do that.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 17:16
I get the part where you think he is nowt but an idiot, I was just wondering at what point, in your opinion someone of belief stops being an idiot :confused:

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 18:28
Why does that concern you? Have you run out of arguments regarding the idiot in Iran so must now move on to trying to find some way to gain some sort of internet high ground over me to satisfy your own belief that you are somehow "better" than others?

Victor Inox
20th Jan 2013, 18:37
Your analogy is a load of crap, and is irrelevant.

Glad to see you are back to being your eloquent self, HB. Perhaps you should stay away from the sauce while typing away at the keyboard.

hellsbrink
20th Jan 2013, 18:38
And I guess you must agree with me as well, since you are attacking me instead of trying to show that what I said is actually wrong......

obgraham
20th Jan 2013, 18:43
Once again, Hellsbrink, you seem content to apply your view of what makes another an idiot. And thence to justify applying an oppressive law in an oppressive regime to deal with said "idiot".

How fortunate for you that you live in a country where others have the right to believe differently from you.

NWSRG
20th Jan 2013, 18:44
Hellsbrink,

Your arguments are all perfectly logical in an atheist context.

But do you realise how illogical they are if indeed God does exist? All those 'idiots' who gave their lives in Christian work are now enjoying an eternity with God and Jesus in a heaven that is so perfect as to be incomprehensible to mere mortals...

Is this life the journey, or just the station platform? You takes your pick, but as I said before, it's not one you'd want to get wrong...

Read some of CS Lewis works...a confirmed (and highly intelligent) atheist who became utterly convinced of God's existence, and gave his life to Christ.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 23:36
How fortunate for you that you live in a country where others have the right to believe differently from you.

A right that we enjoy given to us by many others, like the guy in question who have fought and died for that right over the centuries :D

Victor Inox
21st Jan 2013, 03:22
And I guess you must agree with me as well, since you are attacking me instead of trying to show that what I said is actually wrong......

Thank you for a timely reminder of how pressing it is that we legalize euthanasia. In fact, making it compulsory in very sad cases seems most appealing, too.

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 03:34
Once again, Hellsbrink, you seem content to apply your view of what makes another an idiot. And thence to justify applying an oppressive law in an oppressive regime to deal with said "idiot".

Except, old bean, it is THEIR country and THEIR law that the idiot does not comprehend. He had been warned, but still felt he had to massage his ego and now he has to reap the consequences.

There are many countries, some most of us would deem as more deserving of his "aid", but he chose to ignore them to fuel his self-delusion in a place where he knew he would be treated like crud if caught. He wasn't trying to "change" the attitudes of the Islamic Republic, he wasn't trying to garner support for the toppling of the regime, he was fuelling his own ego.

That makes him an idiot, and I see no need to be wringing my hands, or bleeding at the heart, over something he brought upon himself over his own stupidity.

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 03:37
Hellsbrink,

Your arguments are all perfectly logical in an atheist context.

But do you realise how illogical they are if indeed God does exist? All those 'idiots' who gave their lives in Christian work are now enjoying an eternity with God and Jesus in a heaven that is so perfect as to be incomprehensible to mere mortals...

Is this life the journey, or just the station platform? You takes your pick, but as I said before, it's not one you'd want to get wrong...

Read some of CS Lewis works...a confirmed (and highly intelligent) atheist who became utterly convinced of God's existence, and gave his life to Christ.

Is that the Jesus Christ who didn't actually exist? You best look up what his real name was, and then you'll see you worship a mistranslation. And if they can't get that right, how can anything else be expected to be remotely correct?

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 03:39
A right that we enjoy given to us by many others, like the guy in question who have fought and died for that right over the centuries

Still wriggling? Got absolutely nothing to show that said idiot in Iran was doing nothing more than massaging his own ego?

I think the sun may have gotten to you, your insults are almost as pathetic as your argument.

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 03:40
Thank you for a timely reminder of how pressing it is that we legalize euthanasia. In fact, making it compulsory in very sad cases seems most appealing, too.

Already is here, so you best stay away so we don't put you out of our misery.

Unless you can figure out how to counter my argument instead of attacking me......

obgraham
21st Jan 2013, 04:06
how to counter my argumentWell a number of us have, but you continue to see nothing objectionable about a country murdering its religious minorities, even the peaceful ones.

I'm not opposed to snuffing the un-peaceful ones.

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 04:18
Well a number of us have, but you continue to see nothing objectionable about a country murdering its religious minorities, even the peaceful ones.

Gee, obgraham, that would be because the idiot HAS NOT BEEN EXECUTED! After all, the subject of this thread is the Idiot in Iran and he's still alive. So unless you are trying to change the subject of the thread because you cannot counter a position, that's what we are talking about and not whether any country kills people over their religious beliefs. Ok

Do you get it, they're trying to put the crappers up him, NOBODY HAS BEEN KILLED!!


Yet you are sitting there pontificating as if he was publicly hung, drawn, quartered and then shot, with the video going going viral on youtube, when bugger all has happened apart from the assertion of the idiot and a group formed by an evangelist loon that SOMEONE, not the judge or the lawmakers or even the Ayatollahs, said he "will hang".

So get off your "I'm better than you" pedestal, for you are trying to argue a point that HAS NOT HAPPENED and one where there is no actual evidence of the words "you will hang" being said by anyone of any importance in the case, like the judge, and there certainly is nothing behind your assertion that he had been murdered.




Oh, and he is not one of Iran's "religious minorities", it even tells you that in the title of the thread. Yet another epic fail in your "argument".

wdew
21st Jan 2013, 05:22
Now just imagine the uproar world wide if a visiting Muslim cleric, advocating jihad against all infidels and approving bombing civilians as collateral damage, gets arrested or criticised in Serbia or London or wherever .
Yet daily infidels get arrested ,killed or just disappear world wide and no buildings are burned, no embassy staff killed or decapitated by the infidels to protest .
I suppose hellsbrink will just continue the semantic debate once he is killed and say now we have a point , so lets debate.
No person should be persecuted for their religion or race .

obgraham
21st Jan 2013, 05:44
Hellsbrink:
I don't know if it is the beer, the chocolate, or the Belgian language wars, but for some reason you seem to have lost your ability to read the English language.
Oh, and he is not one of Iran's "religious minorities",
The man was born in Iran: i.e., he is an Iranian.
After a time in the US, he became a Christian, which in Iran, in case you missed it, is a minority.
Later on he went back to Iran, and started helping widows and orphans: i.e. he is a do gooder, not a terrorist.

And in your mind, this justifies giving him the truncheon-up-the-keister treatment and sending him to see an Islamic judge whose previous judgements usually involve a rope and a crane.

All this vitriol because you hold different views regarding religion. Pathetic.

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 10:12
Yet again, wrong.

PROVE what you claim has happened, and tell us all how a US citizen is Iranian.

And, believe me, it's clear that my comprehension of the English language is better than yours, for I can read that only he has made the claim that he will hang and nobody else. But don't let that stop your trip on the outrage bus

eastern wiseguy
21st Jan 2013, 10:44
OBGraham

All this vitriol because you hold different views regarding religion.

Surely this has come about PRECISELY because the Iranians and the born again Pastor hold differing views regarding their respective imaginary friends.

If they would stay out of each others face and practise their pointless rituals in the comfort of their own ignorance and countries....the world might be a better place.

skydiver69
21st Jan 2013, 12:41
The pastor's biggest problem is that he chose to go to Rhast which has a place in Iranian joke telling similar to that of the Irish in British jokes. Maybe after visiting the place 4 or 5 times the joke even wore thin for them.

Matari
21st Jan 2013, 12:53
and tell us all how a US citizen is Iranian.

Like the British consul told a friend of mine when he applied for American citizenship, and inquired about the status of his nationality in the place of his birth. The consul said: 'You can tear your British passport into tiny little bits, but you shall always be British.'

Guess it works kind of the same way in Iran.

wings folded
21st Jan 2013, 12:54
hells,

and tell us all how a US citizen is Iranian.



There are numerous folk pottering about the world with dual nationality. It's actually quite common.

MagnusP
21st Jan 2013, 13:42
The ever-wise Pratchett once wrote of (and I may misquote a bit) "Standing on top of a hill in a thunderstorm, wearing wet copper armour and shouting All gods are [email protected]". Strangely reminiscent.

hellsbrink
21st Jan 2013, 14:42
There are numerous folk pottering about the world with dual nationality. It's actually quite common.

Iran doesn't recognise dual citizenship, if he was "dual citizen" he would be classed as Iranian and not American. That would possibly make his treatment somewhat different.

Mind you, his own lawyer has stated that he won't face being hanged. That's just an invention of the press, as usual. And it doesn't alter the matter of him being warned about his actions and then going back repeatedly and doing the same thing. That was always going to be a recipe for disaster for him.

wings folded
21st Jan 2013, 14:58
America is not fond of acknowledging other citizenships either.

It doesn't change the facts.

obgraham
21st Jan 2013, 18:21
I see that today the Iranian regime has said they will release the pastor in question here, after extracting $116,000 from him.

So fortunately, Hellsbrink will not have this man's death weighing on him as he contemplates the future of religious freedom in Iran and other Islamic countries.

I don't know if that Congressional Letter, signed by some 50 members of Congress (but no prominent Democrats!) had anything to do with resolving this matter -- I suspect not, and that the whole thing was Dinnerjacket up to his usual provocations.

eastern wiseguy
21st Jan 2013, 18:38
they will release the pastor in question here, after extracting $116,000 from him.

No doubt his sheep will reimburse him.

Bronx
21st Jan 2013, 22:33
Wiseguy

Its easy to make sarcastic comments.
However misguided some folk think he is the guy has been trying to help others.


B.

eastern wiseguy
21st Jan 2013, 23:29
Bronx...no sarcasm. A statement of what I believe will happen.

hellsbrink
27th Jan 2013, 16:20
I see the hysterical ones were right, he was killed by the Iranians for standing up to the barbaric regime and trying to be a modern day Martin Luther King....


Oh, hang on, he wasn't. He was given 8 years for doing what he was ordered not to do a few years ago. If the idiot had just behaved himself and kept his head down none of this would have happened. But he didn't, he thought he was above the law. Now he pays the price.

obgraham
27th Jan 2013, 18:35
Well there you go, Hellsbrink, you got what you wanted. Now next time you head off to Iran you won't be subjected to religious haranguing.

Oh, wait....

Milo Minderbinder
27th Jan 2013, 18:37
Surely, 8 years in an Iranian prison IS a death sentence?

hellsbrink
27th Jan 2013, 19:09
obgraham

He brought it on himself and he wasn't executed like you kept saying he would be. And his death would never have been on my conscience like you tried to say in your pathetic point scoring attempt a few posts back because he did bring everything onto himself.,

Get a life, pull your head out of your backside and start learning about reality instead of your fantasy world where everyone sits around a campfire hugging each other and singing Kumbaya, the world ain't like that no maker what you wish.

And to think you had the nerve to try and call me "pathetic"..........

hellsbrink
27th Jan 2013, 19:13
Milo, expect some backroom dealing done so he doesn't do 8 years, gets kicked out of the country, is banned from entering the country and then disappears back into the sort of obscurity he should have had the sense to remain in. He's hardly important to either Iran or the US, he's just an idiotic nobody. He'll be home sooner than you think.

obgraham
27th Jan 2013, 19:29
Hellsbrink:
Get a life, pull your head out of your backsideSeems to me you're the one whose thong is irritating his buttcrack over this issue. While I support religious freedom you seem to have an inordinate fear of anyone expressing a "faith-based" opinion. I'm sure there is a reason for that.

Shame, too, since you and I seem to be on the same wavelength on most other matters that come to this august forum on JetBlast!

skydiver69
27th Jan 2013, 19:53
Surely, 8 years in an Iranian prison IS a death sentence?

Not according to these Iranian MPs.

BBC News - Iran's Evin prison: Jail or 'hotel'? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21159392)

Cacophonix
27th Jan 2013, 20:30
I guess one could extrapolate some of the comments on this thread to describe a Jew who felt inclined to preach a new faith in the context of Caesars and other intolerant religions (ergo Judaism)... that didn't work out well for the fellow in question but it seems his franchise is sill going strong...

Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) (12HQ) Damned For All Time-Blood Money (((Stereo))) {HQ} (Repost) - YouTube

Caco

Milo Minderbinder
27th Jan 2013, 20:53
He didn't preach a new religion, he just tried to purify that which already existed. Others took and rewrote his words and created a new cult, distorting history until it evolved into a new religion

NWSRG
27th Jan 2013, 21:35
He didn't preach a new religion, he just tried to purify that which already existed. Others took and rewrote his words and created a new cult, distorting history until it evolved into a new religion

Sorry, but it's a bit more fundamental than that. Jesus came to this world to provide the only means for man to be reconciled to God. This single event is the most significant in the history of this planet...nothing to do with refining a religion, but everything to do with God choosing to offer this world free and undeserved forgiveness through Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. And this is all entirely consistent with the prophecy of the old testament books.

obgraham
27th Jan 2013, 21:57
NWSRG:
I'm afraid you are in a somewhat unreceptive group here in JB. By and large not only do they want to not hear your message, but they also want to deny you the right to express it. And then rejoice when some barbaric regime does just that.

I'm not sure just why that is.

Milo Minderbinder
27th Jan 2013, 22:47
NWSRG

I'm afraid you're suffering from a fatal overload of literalism in your belief in the stories of the bible. Unfortunately for you, history from other sources - including the suppresed gospels -put rather a different slant on events. The Christ message was hijacked over the following 100 years from his death and subverted away from his original views.
Thats all I'm going to say on the matter - you can believe want you want, don't expect anyone else to. This isn't the forum to argue the case either way - in fact don't the TOS prohibit it?

And just to clear up a point from obgraham. No-ones denying anyone else his or her "rights". However your (or anyone elses) "rights" to point garbage must be countered by anyone elses rights to call it the rubbish it is....

Finally I see little evidence of anyone rejoicing over barbaric regimes

exeng
27th Jan 2013, 22:52
Sorry, but it's a bit more fundamental than that. Jesus came to this world to provide the only means for man to be reconciled to God. This single event is the most significant in the history of this planet...nothing to do with refining a religion, but everything to do with God choosing to offer this world free and undeserved forgiveness through Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. And this is all entirely consistent with the prophecy of the old testament books.

Please mate can we keep the thread on track. The thread has got bu**er all to do with what you or I do or don't believe in. You can pop in to your local church, synagogue or whatever and expound your views with a captive audience - why waste the bandwidth here?

I think the man was an idiot who was attempting a first at the 'Darwin Awards'. He seems to have failed this time but I have no doubt he will in the end achieve his aim. Oh what joy it is to be a martyr. (Jesus apparently loves martyrs)


Regards
Exeng

hellsbrink
28th Jan 2013, 04:27
Seems to me you're the one whose thong is irritating his buttcrack over this issue. While I support religious freedom you seem to have an inordinate fear of anyone expressing a "faith-based" opinion. I'm sure there is a reason for that.

There you go again, putting words into someone else's mouth and claiming they are the ones with their head where the sun don't shine.

A bit like how you clearly said the idiot would be executed (or, indeed, had been) when anyone with two brain cells to rub together could see that wasn't the case.

I guess you can't actually argue points that have been made, they must be 100% accurate.....

But, anyway, I'll humour you. You talk about "religious freedom". Ok, let's do that. Let us all hear why people like Abu Qatada, Abu Hamza, or the one who was not jailed because he was taught that raping a child was "normal" under his beliefs, should never even be questioned by the police, never mind be arrested and charged, over their behaviour according to their "beliefs", tell us all why their "religious freedom" should be above UK law. Then you can use the same analogy to tell us all why the idiot in Iran should be above Iranian law, especially after being warned against continuing the behaviour he was warned against.


And it would be nice to know why the idiot kept going back when things were so dangerous for him he had to flee the country anyway. Putting yourself in that danger, knowing you will be scrutinised closely because of who you are, on a regular basis is, frankly, stupidity.

obgraham
28th Jan 2013, 04:36
Hellsbrink:
As a former partner of mine was oft heard to say:
"I'm tiring of this conversation."
A wheel can only go round so many times. Let us meet again on a different subject.

hellsbrink
28th Jan 2013, 15:31
So, no valid answers to points made.

Fair enough, this thread has run it's course anyway.

Lonewolf_50
28th Jan 2013, 19:26
exeng: I am not sure whether or not Jesus loved martyrs, given that His own martyrdom is presumed to have been the last necessary one for mankind's salvation. In the general sense that Jesus loves/loved us all, he'd love martyrs no less.

When push came to shove, it seems that a lot of early adherents decided to follow His example (martyrdom) and thus various Saints became important figures in the Faith: St Andrew, St Stephen, and so on.

So maybe that's the angle this pastor is taking:

"Spread the Word, and if I am martyred in trying to do so then so be it."
That would be consistent with his Faith.

While he draws breath, not fighting to keep on living (and thus for him keeping on with Spreading the Word) would be inconsistent with the Great Commission. He paid his money, he took his chances, and gets to try and figure out what to do next.

Maybe 8 years in an Iranian prison will give him some chances to see even more deeply into human nature.

Hard to say.