Corporate advertisements for China

[mutt]

There appears to be a series of ongoing advertisements for BBJ/F7X/G550 jobs in China.

I'm surprised that they are unable to fill these positions, whats the problem?

Mutt

[CaptainProp]

Terms and conditions considering you need to, on most of the contracts anyway, live in Beijing, Shenzhen, Chengdu, Chongqing etc or if you are "lucky" in two of the better ones, HK and Shanghai. Google "Chinese air pollution" and you'll see what I mean....

Chinese initial medical if B- registered aircraft. Then there is the re-current medical every year where you run the risk of being sent home on the next flight. I have heard recently though (not confirmed) that the initial medical has gotten even tougher but that they have changed the re-current one slightly and its now only once a year instead of every 6 months.

Operating in China is still extremely frustrating with delays, restricted airspace, useless air traffic controllers, and I think, again due to terms and conditions on offer, a lot of people can't be bothered going over to China to work.

Most bizjet operators offering lousy housing allowance and lower end pay.

I know for a fact that several management companies are turning down business now because they just can't get enough pilots. This in turn means that the pilots that are there can forget fixed days off and holiday entitlement etc. This straight from the horse's mouth.

Having said that I think its a good opportunity to get a new rating (some of the Chinese / Asian companies offering rating) and both professional and personal experience for a couple of years. If you don't want to stay after that, head back and get a job in EU / US or wherever floats your boat.

CP

[g450cpt]

Mutt,

From what I understand from my some of my buddies that looked into these jobs is the ever changing T&Cs. They were promised the moon but as soon as they went there they started taking the perks away. For recruitment they were told is was a commutable rotational schedule (taken away or schedule made it impossible to commute), travel provided to and from your home (taken away), housing provided (reduced considerably), medical coverage for family (reduced to employee only), education for children in private school should you decide to move your family there (take away) etc....Again this is from a small group of guys that pursued some of these jobs so they may not all be like this. But one has to wonder why they keep advertising for the same positions.

P

[Doodlebug]

''I know for a fact that several management companies are turning down business now because they just can't get enough pilots.''

I don't doubt what you say, but I don't comprehend it. If there is a demand for experienced GLEX-pilots, say, but they can't get any because the package on offer is too poor, why don't the illustrious management companies offer something decent? The owners of these machines can afford 8000 dollars landing fee/handling charge for one turnaround; or 5000 euros worth of catering for just one sector. Fuel, de-icing, limos, choppers, etc and so forth, there is never any discussion when it comes to these bills, they are coughed-up for without batting an eye.

Top salaries for high-time GLEX-drivers in Russia are hitting 14000 basic a month. China is a dump. If management companies want experienced people there they will need to fork out for them. 3 weeks on / 3 weeks off with flights home paid, top hotels, 150 Euro per day per diem, 16000 Euro per month offshore and they'll find crew.

[noneya]

What's to comprehend?

Sure the owners can afford it, but the management company is in it to make money! I am sure to get the contract for said aircraft, they told the owners that the plane will cost X per hour to operate, so now they can't go back to the owner and change the cost because the owner will possibly go elsewhere, and the management company is not going to lose that revenue. So where do you think the money comes from... Thats right, get the crews to fly for cheap and take away the costly, unnecessary (in their eyes) T&C's. This may mean that they have to hire from the bottom of the pool, but what do they care as long as they are making money at the end of the day!

This is my 2 cents on it anyway!

[TheRobe]

A couple of things I noticed.

Once you get non pilots hiring pilots, it's a cluster. I can think of two trips I have made where I was told, surprise surprise, they want a captain, not a chief pilot, but really an FO, kind of a co captain. Then Part 91 was really 135. The list goes on. You just sit there and wonder how some of these companies even get a plane off the ground.

I don't get on a plane anymore until I talk to the owner, that said, some of these are HR dog and pony shows...everyone shows up, but they already decided who they want. I can smell those, but tons of guys fly around and do the runaround for those deals.

Seems China would be fun to bust into, but every time I looked into it, Corporate was really Charter, and experienced captain does not mean a 12,000 hour pilot who flies a big jet, but a pilot with 2000 hours with the type they want him to have. Same old, same old. Chumming for type ratings.

That said, the deal breaker for me was watching a show where the hospitals were packed with people with heart problems a few weeks back from the smog in Beijing. Evidently it's worse then Mexico City there, equivalent of smoking 2 packs a day.

[Doodlebug]

I remember vividly the day on which 'my' owner, livid about a completely avoidable delay caused by beginners in dispatch, told me that he didn't CARE whether the cost was three times as much as it was, or even more, as long as things WORKED!

What this means is, amongst many, many other points - not employing absolute beginners in ops unless constantly shadowed by experienced personnel; listening to the pilots' gut instinct and actually booking parking or a slot at a certain airport well in advance; hangaring aircraft in the winter at massive cost; preventative maintenance (when the pilot says the EMS-CDU is flickering and it's going to let go, order a new one, get hold of a spanner and send it out to wherever the bird currently is, before the thing does die and the show stops there-and-then); allowing crew to tanker outrageous amounts of fuel into somewhere they suspect they may not be able to uplift; etcetcetcetc...

However there's always the el cheapo company who believes that saving the owner 10 000 a month is going to make them shine. Utter nonsense. These pax want their aircraft to fly whereever they want them to, whenever they want them to, safely. That's it, no more, no less. Do that and you keep Mr. Oligarch happy. This does, however, mean employing people who've been doing this stuff for a day or two, and they cost. Management companies can still mark up their cut over and above all the other outrageous costs, as long as they ALWAYS keep the owner happy. Not rocket-science. Go cheap, however, and it won't work. Thank god some (few) AOC-holders seem to have understood this.

[flydive1]

Noneya, totally agree.
The big problem is not the owner, but the managament companies trying to get everything for cheap and charge lots.
But it seems that things are changing and on some types they have to face reality.
Now, if only all pilots would stand their grounds and work only at the right conditions....

[Booglebox]

Doodlebug: Your last paragraph extremely true.
I've seen operators shed clients due to this unfortunate bean-counting attitude.