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Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 13:03
Lance Armstrong confesses to Oprah Winfrey about his doping - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/lance-armstrong-confesses-to-oprah-winfrey-about-his-doping/2013/01/15/4fb942ea-5f0e-11e2-b05a-605528f6b712_story.html)


Lance Armstrong admits to Oprah that he cheated by doping.
Lawsuit city here he comes, do da, do da.....

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 13:13
Not surprising. Kind of difficult to continue to reject allegations when so many of them have been substantiated.

I have a feeling Lance is going to be giving some of his earnings ($$$$$) back. To the tune of millions.

Sprogget
15th Jan 2013, 13:41
Unable to hold back the tears, a sobbing Lance Armstrong reveals to Oprah that he has £50 of HMV vouchers that he "might as well burn now."

wings folded
15th Jan 2013, 13:51
If he had confessed to the appropriate authorities in the cycling world, one might have had a little tiny vestige of a morsel of respect.

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 14:01
I must agree and further stipulate that I would prefer a total crushing of his reputation, the elimination of his bank accounts, public display of his welfare application, televised public admission that his testicles where surgically removed and nailed to a fence post.

airship
15th Jan 2013, 15:04
I must agree and further stipulate that I would prefer a total crushing of his reputation, the elimination of his bank accounts, public display of his welfare application, televised public admission that his testicles where surgically removed and nailed to a fence post.

From what I understood, noone in International cycling circles could (should) have ignored his exploits.

But wait a minute. Sir Jimmy Savile is dead. Lance Armstrong is still alive. So perhaps we should allow the maelstorm to fall upon someone who might yet be able to respond?

PS. What's Lance Armstrong worth (dead or alive), compared to the late Sir Jimmy Savile's estate (about £4 million) to those seeking recompense? :zzz:

aviate1138
15th Jan 2013, 15:09
Two and a half hours of Oprah and she didn't ask the question 'Did you take drugs?`
He did not say he had.

galaxy flyer
15th Jan 2013, 16:02
temp spike

Your comment shows you don't know diddly about Lance's medical history, do you?

GF

ExXB
15th Jan 2013, 16:04
Another cheat. Why are we giving him any of our time, he certainly isn't worth it.

Juud
15th Jan 2013, 16:10
Our son and his friends always were sport nuts. They´d try and watch anything, but were and are especially keen on cycling and football/soccer.

When Armstrong won his first Tour, the boys were 11 years old. And thoroughly disgusted with the the whole media circus around this supposedly 'clean' winner.
"Mamma, he uses dope, like all of them do. That´s cycling; you just can´t do a Tour without dope. He´s just the biggest cheat with all his clean living bullish!t." For all the years after, he and and his friends agreed that Armstrong was a hypocritical [email protected], and they merely rolled their eyes when anybody bought into the Armstrong myth.

Now grown men, they say that everybody with an interest in cycling knew the score with Armstrong. And that the sudden outrage now smacks of hypocrisy, or in the best case, complete ignorance.

I do think they have a valid point.

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 16:14
Judd:

Understood. I'm not condoning what Armstrong did BUT if 99% of the pelethon was doing the same, doesn't it stand to reason that if you want to compete you might as well join the bandwagon? Yes, he's a hypocritical basta** and should have owned up to it a long time ago. It is what it is.

The way I see it, and perhaps I'm wrong, but if everyone else was doing it and he came out on top of the level playing field, so to speak, then he was clearly better than his peers.

Which is also probably why the UCI will not be able to bestow his titles on anyone else because the rest of them were just as dirty.

Juud
15th Jan 2013, 16:27
rg, I do not personally know enough about the matter to have an informed opinion. So I am merely parroting son & mates here. :)

Level playing field to a point yes; depending on team-money and drugs availability.

Yes the man is a great cycling talent, absolutely. And his wins have made the sport more popular in the USA and have thrilled many casual cycling fans. He´s also done good for cancer sufferers. Kudos due for that.

Doping yourself the same way every other competitor does is understandable. You want to compete in biking, you use dope.
Crusading for a clean and healthy lifestyle and cheating millions of $$$$ out of people´s pockets while being doped up to the eyeballs, is less sympathetic.

Consciously and completely ruining the lives of a number of people for pointing out the truth is also less than 'nice'.

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 16:34
Judd wrote:

Crusading for a clean and healthy lifestyle and cheating millions of $$$$ out of people´s pockets while being doped up to the eyeballs, is less sympathetic.

Consciously and completely ruining the lives of a number of people for pointing out the truth is also less than 'nice'.

Completely agree. He's a scoundrel of the first order. But one hell of an athlete.

obgraham
15th Jan 2013, 16:37
He came back from cancer. Good on him.

He has helped others with cancer. Good on him.

Otherwise, he was a liar and a cheater then, and he's a liar and attention-hog now. Just like Oprah.

Just go away, man.

rotornut
15th Jan 2013, 16:38
Time for a career in politics.:D

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 16:53
obgraham:

But he was a liar and cheater amongst a cycling peloton filled with other liars and cheaters. Why single him out?

Here's just a very small list of those who cycled at the same time as Armstrong, who adamantly stated they didn't "do drugs" but were later found out.

1. Bjarne Riis
2. Floyd Landis
3. Richard Virenque
4. Alberto Contador
5. Marco Pantani
6. Jan Ullrich
7. Ivan Basso
8. Alexandre Vinokourov
9. George Hincapie
10. Eric Zabel

My point? All 10 of these cyclists - if you don't know them by name - were at the pinnacle of their careers. All of them did amazing things during the TdF. Pantani, for example, was the closest competitor to Armstrong during the late 90's.

They all did the same. They all claimed, at some point, not to be doing drugs. And they were all found out eventually.

Not condoning it at all but if the only way you could compete with your fellow athletes is by doing what they were doing, what would you do, refuse?

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 17:07
One other point. Again, not to condone.

The problem of doping and drug use in the Tour de France is as old as the race itself. The first case was recorded in 1886!

For a list of all cycling-related doping cases, see:

List of doping cases in cycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling)

OFSO
15th Jan 2013, 18:29
I'm just waiting for the next scandal to break: that Keith Richards has used performance-enhancing drugs. Tho' I don't think he'll be going on Oprah to announce it......

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 18:35
OFSO:

Just one look at Keith Richards proves he does, or did, performance-enhancing drugs!!!

http://planetsocksinteractive.com/dcforum/User_files/49c85a1b13b14bd8.jpg

But, boy, the man plays a mean guitar.

Lonewolf_50
15th Jan 2013, 18:41
I don't think Keith ever denied it, and I think he still has his nuts.

obgraham
15th Jan 2013, 18:41
rgbrock:

It's true, on the doping issue he was one among many.

But over here, where nobody much cares about bike racing, Lance Armstrong made a career out of denying he was a doper. The rest of them had their ten minutes of fame and were forgotten about. But everywhere Armstrong went we listened to (1)I had cancer and (2)I'm clean, but everyone else dopes.

He's just the biggest of the hypocrites, and made the most money from his denials.

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 18:52
obgraham:

I agree: Armstrong was one of the biggest hypocrites. And used his own survival of cancer in nefarious ways.

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 19:30
I'm so glad the vast majority agree with me and not GF, the only defender of corruption. Alas, it is his political leanings that predict his comments.:D

AlpineSkier
15th Jan 2013, 19:39
Just seen Oprah doing publicity for the interview: she says :

" I thought he'd say more ....."

so I think it likely there is no clear confession.

rgbrock1
15th Jan 2013, 19:41
Doesn't the word 'obfuscate' cover that, Alpine?

racedo
15th Jan 2013, 19:48
Lance Armstrong - Lying doped up cheater for years who bullied and threatened any journalist who dared question him, now trying to weasel his way back in by talking to Oprah.

Hats off to Paul Kimmage and David Walsh :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D for refusing to give up on exposing the liar.

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 19:51
It's interesting that he does this before Oprah, and, NOT Fox news where he would undoubtedly be laurelled as a Social Darwinist self made, (cough cough)...man. Too much to ever be believed.

He seeks the limelight. He does not want to fall into obscurity, irrelevance. He invests his money in the cause of self promotion, gambling that he will defeat his enemies because he is stronger than they…..

….but…the whole world, save for Galaxy Flyer, is disgusted by him. Lance Armstrong is now a pathetic laughing stock clawing at the walls of hell with his chemical body and putrefied morality spinning, turning, flushing down the toilet bowl of history.

May God have mercy on his soul.

Juud
15th Jan 2013, 19:56
... GF, the only defender of corruption. ...
... while all GF wrote was:
temp spike
Your comment shows you don't know diddly about Lance's medical history, do you?
Your assertion doesn´t make sense Temps.
GF´s post does not defend corruption.

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 20:02
Think not?

Well then let the world judge. I digress. Better yet...

Unless he misses this post:

I APPOLOGIZE, GALEXY FLYER, FOR MY ACCUSATION. WILL YOU DO THE SAME FOR YOURS?

Somehow I think not, which makes me the better man, according to western moray eels. Not that I didn’t already know it.

con-pilot
15th Jan 2013, 20:54
Somehow I think not, which makes me the better man, according to western morays. Not that I didn’t already know it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Boy, if that doesn't speak volunes, don't think I've ever met anyone perfect before now. :hmm:

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 20:55
Dance around it all you like, but the fact remains...

I am better than thee.

AlpineSkier
15th Jan 2013, 20:57
Well he had to be, didn't he ?

He talks to eels !

which makes me the better man, according to western morays

TS

Apologies if you are not a native English-speaker ( suppose you meant "mores " ? )

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 21:06
EELS MAN! EELS!

Criky Americans are thick.

Juud
15th Jan 2013, 21:11
temp spike again you make no sense.
GF does not make any accusations, and can not appologise for something he didn't do.

Not knowing either of you, it is hard to tell who the "better man" would be. You are probably normal, decent men both.

One of you however, is clearly much better at expressing himself understandably and half-way logically in writing. ;)

Temp Spike
15th Jan 2013, 21:12
Glad you approve.:)

parabellum
15th Jan 2013, 22:42
So, if all the winners are on drugs then the fair thing to do would be to take the last three in each of the last seven T de Fs and award them 1st., 2nd and 3rd status, yes?;)

Sprogget
15th Jan 2013, 22:44
Kudos to Armstrong for having the ball to admit it.

wiggy
15th Jan 2013, 22:52
racedo

Hats off to Paul Kimmage and David Walsh

seconded.

I'll also add a plug (again) for Davd Millar's book "Racing Through The Dark". I know DM can sometimes come over as something of a zealot (to say the least) but his book is a very scary account of the pressures that can be put of professional sportsfolks to conform with "the herd"......and yes, DM was a team mate of Armstrong's early on, and yes, there are hints...

Milo Minderbinder
15th Jan 2013, 22:53
Moray eels are poisonous beasts
Specifically they have toxic blood

Cacophonix
15th Jan 2013, 22:56
Armstrong is a lying piece of shit!

He brings shame on all of us.

It is that simple!

Caco

pigboat
16th Jan 2013, 01:05
When an eel lunges out and he bites off your snout,
That's a morayyyy...

De_flieger
16th Jan 2013, 01:29
Whennnnn the eel on the reef bites the heel of your feet
thats a moray! :ok:

Temp Spike - I believe what Galaxy Flyer meant was that Lance Armstrong already had at least one testicle surgically removed as part of his cancer treatment. It certainly doesnt read as he was defending corruption.

RatherBeFlying
16th Jan 2013, 03:35
Lance's particular problem is that he made a gigantic fuss that he was a sparkling clean competitor.

Had he confined himself to the pro forma denials made by others in his trade, he would have been able to receive absolution when the anti-doping authorities eventually caught up to him.

One has to admit that he did a very good job of keeping his doping below the various detection thresholds.

Caveat that Oprah received specific confessions. It is not beyond possibility that Lance was skating very close to the line and evolving his regime to keep up with detection technology. Maybe we will hear "When stuff got banned [detectable] we moved to something else".

Doping did not start with Lance -- and I don't think it has stopped with him.

AlpineSkier
16th Jan 2013, 08:51
Armstrong is a lying piece of shit!

He brings shame on all of us.

It is that simple!

That's a very big brush, Caco ! Which "all of us do you mean ? Cyclists, Americans, men ? :eek:

And no dramatic denouement accompaniment ?

Worrals in the wilds
16th Jan 2013, 08:55
Lance Armstrong - Lying doped up cheater for years who bullied and threatened any journalist who dared question him, now trying to weasel his way back in by talking to Oprah.Agreed. He was an absolute jerk on the subject; some years ago he stormed out of an interview with the local rag after threatening them with all kinds of terror when they asked his opinion about allegations. Of course now they're gloating like crazy.

If he hadn't made such a big, agressive deal about being clean it wouldn't be so revolting, but he did. It's similar to the downfall of Tiger Woods, who made a lot of mileage (and a lot of money) by claiming to be a respectable family man. If Jack Nicholson had been caught in the same position as Woods it barely would have made page 3, because he's Jack and has never pretended to be respectable or made millions out of advertising by doing so.

The problem with putting yourself on a false pedestal is that when it crumbles you end up looking like a total hypocrite who'll do anything for fame, and that's the position Armstrong's now in. Crying his little eyes out on Oprah (mea culpa, mea maxima culpa :bored:) is hardly going to compensate for that. It just adds to the BS factor.

Alloa Akbar
16th Jan 2013, 10:04
So Armstrong used drugs, so did everybody else.. The list of sportsmen and women using drugs is endless, and there are those out there yet to be detected.. Manny Pacquiao for example, whom Floyd Mayweather challenged to engage in blood testing leading up to a fight, for which MP refused, yet still huge American and global TV companies flock to watch and pay him handsomely.. Why refuse Manny? Something to hide?

Armstrong is just the face at the front end of a rotten sport, but one of many. I also agree with other posters in that he has done a lot of good in his work with Cancer. I can't help but think there is a lot of over-reaction here, especially with the "but Lance claimed he was clean" brigade.. every doped athlete ever caught always protested innocence until caught. Lets face it, he hasn't killed anyone, the world is still turning and I reckon most of the demands for castration / beheadings / financial penalties that would make BP blush, are actually borne out of jealousy that the guy has made millions from his sport.

Strike his name from the record books, then get over it. The sponsors all got what they paid for at the time.. and do you really have sympathy for the sponsors who are ripping you off every day of your life?? really??

Can't see what all the fuss is about m'self. :rolleyes:

captainsmiffy
16th Jan 2013, 11:40
I didnt know that the first man on the moon could ride a bike as well.....respect....oh...wait a 'mo......

airship
16th Jan 2013, 12:08
I haven't even yet been able to watch even part 1 (of 2 parts in total of the Oprah show in question apparently) here in France. I believe that CNBC may be showing parts of it on their International news site tomorrow. Otherwise, relying merely on the snippets of what was apparently said etc.

For all of Armstrong's failings, I do have a lot of sympathy for him as an individual, especially as he's apparently attempting to finally "come clean". Whilst he may have "dominated" certain well-known cycling events for an overly long period, cycling as an International sport has always (at least for the past 1/4 century) been tainted. To me, he was simply perhaps "the best of the worst", and on the basis that everyone at the top-end of the sport was basically doped-up to their eyeballs, whether or not ever caught-out, in some way actually merited all his wins... :uhoh:

If any parents here really and truly believe that Armstrong's actions somehow harmed their children, then perhaps these parents should in future limit their children to playing chess instead, there are so many sports which are just as troublesome compared to cycling.

Meanwhile, Armstrong will have to "face the music". I wish him well for having eventually "come out", if that is the case.

Temp Spike
16th Jan 2013, 13:27
Well,
Doping harms children because young aspiring athletes, whom start in elementary school, believe they cannot hope to achieve the physical success required to play professional sports as adults unless they start doping at an early age. Parents, the type that live vicariously through their children, many times encourage the practice of athletic doping in their young aspiring athletes. All this, of course, is a sad commentary for American parenting. However it is all part of the American moral decline, that is selectively tied into uncontrolled capitalism driving our society’s unhealthy imperative to succeed at all costs.

Lyman
16th Jan 2013, 15:48
I don't know Armstrong. My ex bil is a Testicular cancer survivor.

Post treatment, he went from straight shooter, honest injun to a conniving gambler/cheater. The personality change was breathtaking....narcissism, liar, ego maniac....


I survived cancer, and know many others. Chemo, surgery, and mental panic are serious stressors, though I believe I missed out on personality change. Generally speaking, one doesn't survive cancer, one survives Chemo.

just sayin

airship
16th Jan 2013, 16:15
Lyman wrote: just sayin And very well said IMHO. :ok:

Temp Spike
18th Jan 2013, 23:32
I wonder how far his ego will take him after he's had his pants sued off? Looks like his net worth won't match his future judgment liabilities.

Lance Armstrong Net Worth - Celebrity Net Worth 2013 (http://www.therichest.org/celebnetworth/athletes/lance-armstrong-net-worth/)

TheRobe
19th Jan 2013, 00:59
So none of you ponder the crass consumerism and spectacle entertainment that surround sports, throwing these people up on such high pedestals. How LA makes millions riding a bicycle is a statement not on him, fame, and the business but on the legions of vacuous spectators paying millions to see him ride down the street. Good work if you can get it.

Chances are the whole thing will get engineered as a comeback story. Everyone will get exposed, if he goes down, so will they, now everyone is scrambling, they cut a deal, he's back in. A billion people wanting to see someone hung out to dry argue back and forth about the fall of heroes and the morality of taking a pill to move faster, all the while drinking and driving, padding logbooks, departing heavy, putting kids in the right seat, and hiring buddies and pals over pilots.

Because it's not about safety ofcourse, or saving lives, or preventing, war, famine or suffering on a grand scale. Nope, it's about Lance trying to shave of a couple a seconds riding a bicycle.

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 01:16
Naw, he'll commit suicide or secretly change passports with a country we don’t have the necessary treaties with in order to grab his bank account. He is way to old to start another sports career. Besides, nobody trusts him anymore and his name will be avoided like the plague. He’s gone.

galaxy flyer
19th Jan 2013, 01:47
Bored with the other ravings here, I went back to this thread only to find myself besmirched by none other that the august personage of Temp Spike, reflexively spilling bile which he finds impossible to contain, despite the wisdom of doing so.

He said,

his testicles

Temp Spike, for reasons that passeth any reasonable reading, took my comment about Lance's medical history as being a defense of the indefensible, cheating at sport. Nothing could be further from the truth--my statement was merely pointing out our cycling cheat's loss of, say we say, male anatomy due to his cancer.

Now, as to Lance and professional sport's sorry state. Money has so thoroughly corrupted every type of sport as to render them unsupportable except by those whose lives are devoid of other worthwhile attention. Football, and that hideously boring sport that shares its name, is truly felonious. Baseball refused to admit any recent players due to all f them tainted by drugs. Money has ruined Uni-level sports in the US. For decades, cycling has been rife with drug allegations and, likely, abuse of same.

Lastly, TS, TS, I will not apologize as I never defended corruption in sport, so have nothing for which to apologize. You, however, need to apologize for truly egregious spelling and for an offense to my honor. Pistols, at dawn? See you at Weehawken, perhaps.

GF

Pigboat, nice pun, well said! :ok: Pity about the snow nowadays. Off to La Belle Province next week.

RatherBeFlying
19th Jan 2013, 01:47
Yep, If I were LA, I'd have started shifting my assets to a country that European and US courts can't touch back when the USADA report came out.

My take so far is that LA was keeping his usage under detectable thresholds -- and was much better at it than other cyclists.

Here in Canada, you generally don't get dinged for speeding until more than 10 km/h over the limit in rural areas. On Alberta roads, the majority of drivers make like LA.

The difference is that they don't pretend that they never violate the speed limit.

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 01:51
Ok GF, whatever....but I hear tell Mr. Armstrong has a family complete with kids.

galaxy flyer
19th Jan 2013, 01:53
Temp Spike,

Not "whatever", the functional equivalent of f**k you. An apology, please, Sir.

Juud

My thanks for your insightful comments.

GF

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 01:55
RBF - If you listen to Lance Armstrong talk for very long, it might occur to you that the man is not very bright. I place him somewhere not far above Tyson in the intellect dept.

galaxy flyer
19th Jan 2013, 02:30
Ah, er, ahem, Temp Spike.....

GF

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 02:39
GF - Context can be elusive on this blog.

If you are suggesting that I do not know about the man's testicular cancer, and therefore do not know what I am talking about when I suggest that his cods be nailed to a fence post, you are wrong. Wrong because his cancer could possibly have been cured by other than surgical means. Thus your comment would lead me to believe that…oh fcuk it, I’m sorry.

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 03:32
If you are suggesting that I do not know about the man's testicular cancer, and therefore do not know what I am talking about when I suggest that his cods be nailed to a fence post, you are wrong. Wrong because his cancer could possibly have been cured by other than surgical means. Thus your comment would lead me to believe that…oh fcuk it, I’m sorry.

Then try doing a modicum of research into anything you want to write, especially as if you had you would know that Armstrong is a "Uniball" whose wife got treatment through IVF using sperm he had stored before the treatment that left him infertile. Then you wouldn't make ridiculous statements like the one above.

In other words, find out something about what you want to talk about instead of showing the world that you have no idea about what you are talking about. You might find the change from your usual routine pleasant.

Bicster
19th Jan 2013, 03:44
I read his book 'Its Not About The Bike' during my recovery from life threatening injuries, I thought he was a great man. I cant slate him for his bravery during his fight with the big c but im very disappointed that he missed a lot in that book and has cheated a lot of people looking for inspiration.

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 04:19
There is a high probability that steroids and other forms of doping actually caused his cancer in the first place, just like it has in many others. That sort of destroyed much of the public cancer sympathy for the man, of late.

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 04:20
hellsbrink, try being a grown up man.

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 04:28
hellsbrink, try being a grown up man.

Now that is funny, coming from you........

probes
19th Jan 2013, 05:29
TheRobe:
So none of you ponder the crass consumerism and spectacle entertainment that surround sports, throwing these people up on such high pedestals. How LA makes millions riding a bicycle is a statement not on him, fame, and the business but on the legions of vacuous spectators paying millions to see him ride down the street. Good work if you can get it.
many do, actually. No receipy, though, how to make people more reasonable. The tightest top of many (most?) sports has become really absurd and far from sports in the sense of personal achievement of an athlete.
I have found it hard to find a point in football and cycling anyway. But as someone (his masseuse?) mentioned, it (=logistics of the doping-stuff) was like a Bond-film, so there's many more millions to be made in the 'case' for sure.

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 05:58
I agree with you Probes. Today, sports has gone way over the top and the spectators are mad.

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 07:38
The tightest top of many (most?) sports has become really absurd and far from sports in the sense of personal achievement of an athlete.
I have found it hard to find a point in football and cycling anyway.

There's a hell of a lot of sports out there, not just soccer and road cycling, and not every person involved in these two are the sort of arrishole that you refer to, but they don't tend to make the headlines.

probes
19th Jan 2013, 08:07
"The tightest top", hb. I mean the top-successful and most competitive who just have to have support teams - medical, tech, PR... and the coaches, of course - so in a way they are just figurines displayed. Also lots of people's jobs depend on them, so imagine the pressure.

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 08:16
Well, you have to apply that concept across all sports. Do, for example, Federer or Djokovic come into the same category as Armstrong? Or top cricketers or rugby players (apart from the England team at the World Cup in New Zealand)? What about Seb Vettel or Schumacher (who doesn't even like talking about his charity work), or many of the footballers you don't read about in the tabloid press as "Footballer stays at home with wife" is hardly something that is news?

I'm just saying that you are tarring a hell of a lot of people with a very large brush, when many and most do not go for the sort of antics that Armstrong or the various "head up the backside" footballers who make the press regularly have gotten up to. Nothing more.

probes
19th Jan 2013, 08:43
I said 'many', hb.
And actually I didn't think about doping, just that it's not personal achievement, it's not enough to be talented and have brains (which the top-ones do for sure), one needs a team to get the split seconds right, so to say.

hellsbrink
19th Jan 2013, 09:15
But it has always been like that, probes, there have always been "coaches" and "advisors", even so far as diet. Now it's taken a step further.

Lon More
19th Jan 2013, 09:41
, there have always been "coaches" and "advisors",

Not to mention bankers.
I wonder how much is squirrelled away in the Bahamas and Switzerland?

The French Dutch and Belgians in particular worship the ground these people walk on and pour millions into their coffers buying replica kit. Just as bad as ManUre fans in the UK - everyone a Rooney.

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 09:54
You know I do enjoy sports on occasion. I like baseball and I especially like world cup football. I love it when the crowd cries out "soldier soldier soldier" Gives me a thrill to hear competitive nationalism in sports. We have nothing approaching that level of competition in the United States. It’s really exciting. The whole world goes nuts over world cup soccer!

Lon More
19th Jan 2013, 10:08
I love it when the crowd cries out "soldier soldier soldier"

Last time I went to a match it sounded more like, "Banker, banker, banker,"

Temp Spike
19th Jan 2013, 10:16
Shakira did it really good in SA

Waka Waka - Shakira - Official Video World Cup South Africa - YouTube

obgraham
19th Jan 2013, 16:57
I love it when the crowd cries out "soldier soldier soldier" Clue me in, Temp -- what does that mean?

bluecode
19th Jan 2013, 17:24
I notice from other coverage that Armstrong's performance and it was a performance, demonstrated that he is in fact a classic psychopath.
It's all there, lack of empathy, lack of real remorse and the way people he felt had let him down were pursued remorsely.

I know a couple of psychopaths and the similarity of their behaviour is remarkable.

On the basis that psychopaths cannot change their behaviour. You have to assume he figures this interview will draw a line under the past. It is in fact and utterly cynical move on his part.

I think we haven't heard the last of him. He will try to re-invent himself in due course.

Adam Nams
19th Jan 2013, 23:15
I haven't been able to see the whole interview yet.

Can anyone who has seen the full version tell me if he said anything on how he managed to avoid being tested positive for the EPO, testosterone etc?

pigboat
20th Jan 2013, 02:13
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/Siddley-Hawker/TerryFox.jpg

Temp Spike
20th Jan 2013, 03:20
Very good PB. The irony is lost on Mr. Armstrong I'm sure, but he sees himself as a self made man. Pretty dumb guy because with his new media confession, he has now opened himself up to government fraud litigation.

KAG
20th Jan 2013, 05:12
For me there are 2 angles to see it.

Either you are an Armstrong enthusiast since the begining, and as grown up men you guys cannot pretend you didn't know what competition really is and act surprised today: giving up on Amstrong right now seems a bit coward.

Either you are like me and you take competition for what it really is: a sick human activity in which being better than everybody is a stupid goal where lying one thousand times is part of the deal.

Very honestly I am not impressed at all by people like Oprah Winfrey, her only achievement is to surf on others people misfortune or fortune a bit like a vulture pretending to be a saint.

Armstrong is clearly one among other Gladiator putting at risk his own health for our entertainment, he is our fantasy' slave. Gladiators are not heroes, they are killer and murderer, they all cheat to survive and win, but be certain of one thing: if there is any glory in all this mess, not even a little bit of it belongs to the ones watching and judging.
At that point it looks like a witch hunt for naive arena spectators.

http://static.programme-tv.net/var/p/240x/221/2216170-1.jpg

Temp Spike
20th Jan 2013, 05:15
Kag -I don’t quite characterize sports competition the way your do. For me, it’s entertainment sure, but like most everything else, limits must apply and those limits reflect the cultural civilization of those whom impose them. If people like to race bicycles, what of it? It is born out of human play, which is a most noble interaction. Granted, humans can become greedy, even disturbed, but they don’t have too. In the end, save for an imbalance or deviant aberration, it is a choice. We make them everyday.

KAG
20th Jan 2013, 05:23
Yes, I don't see competition as healthy familly exercices and sport, I see it as war. Actually this is what it is.

This witch hunt is only the result of our denial and own fantasy concerning competition.

Gladiators will never be clean, good thing is that today nobody is forced to be a Gladiator as we are not supposed to be slaves (not supposed...).

Actually if we look at it, you are 100% right: he is a liar and cheater. I agree with you.

My point stands somewhere else: we have to stop to believe competition is a guide and a good education for kids in addition to be healthy activity (no it's not), because competition has always and will always be war.

I just wanted to bring in some context, I am not saying any of you is not correct, don't get me wrong.

Temp Spike
20th Jan 2013, 05:31
I disagree. In war we destroy property and slaughter each other with aplomb. Sports competition is specifically for the purpose of alleviating the very need of war as a release. Even a spectator can benefit from such release. It does get out of hand sometimes, but the need for competition is indeed a natural human trait that has done much to advance the species.

KAG
20th Jan 2013, 05:41
Well, this perfectly acceptable and even healthy to disagree on a discussion forum! :ok:

I think competition is more an animal instinct close to the one that can trigger a war (instinct that I somewhat respect and acknowledge) than a vector of civilization.

Competition and wars are part of us, evolved and smart creatures we are, but this is not because it's part of us (like it is part of any other animal) that it is the proof we need it to be civilized. This is our only way to behave, that's all.

Competition has never been clean and never will be, Gladiators have never been clean, wars have never been clean, there is a difference about our fantasy concerning competition and its reality.

Temp Spike
20th Jan 2013, 06:02
We can't agree on everything KAG. Disagreement is the line of delineation for competition, but conciliation humanely blurs it’s borders and gives us all peace.

probes
20th Jan 2013, 07:11
Well, nowadays it is not just about competition (which is ingrain in some and not so much in others, the good old personality traits). Like one of the cyclists said in the radio interview (I listened to the one in BBC5 sports, I think, and I do not know the names of cyclists so well) - he worked hard to get to the top team, nad when he was there, he faced the naked truth. So, what do you do? Just say: Well, maybe not? And get the journos on why you left right after getting there? With tens of people behind it?
Or if you're doing real good, and again, have a team of tens (not just the coach and doctor as it used to be), then notice one day you're not doing so well any more, and all the money invested in you, and the award-money and...
It's a tough world.
Which is not written to shed nicer light to Armstrong. Just to think about what's in the background.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 07:39
Probes,

IMHO what irks most folk, myself included is not that he did it it's that he shouted so loudly that he didn't, if that makes sense :ok:

probes
20th Jan 2013, 07:41
well, what was there to do for him? :rolleyes: Like a certain male specimen in the UK (still dead) - and he's not the first one to do so - if you lie, do it big.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Jan 2013, 08:07
Probes,

I hear you but the thing is the bigger the lie then the bigger the eventual fall from grace, as is being proved with LA.

Someone drew a list up on here of all the drug cheats kicked out of cycling over recent years, most of which I had never heard of.

I have some sympathy for the guy especially considering it was apparently almost endemic within the sport but his comedown was only ever going to be spectacular once the truth was out.

Sir George Cayley
20th Jan 2013, 08:31
On a satyrical TV show one guest explained how we all missed an important clue in his name

Lance
Arm
Strong!

How did we miss that?

SGC

sitigeltfel
20th Jan 2013, 09:32
What amazes me is that he has been hinting, that after serving a period of penance, he should be welcomed back into the sport. Even now he is calculating how this can be done, by holding the sword of Damocles over everyone who was complicit in his charade. His arrogance knows no bounds. My view is that he should spend the rest of his life being hounded by those he has bullied, cheated and embezzled.

Milo Minderbinder
20th Jan 2013, 10:09
Presumably he is hoping to emulate Dwain Chamber's attempts at rehabilitation

Temp Spike
20th Jan 2013, 13:04
He will not be forgiven until every centavo of tainted geld is drained from his ill-gotten accounts and fed to every money vulture picking into his self centered being. I must forgive him, that is my faith, though his contrition seems very weak and suspect. Maybe, he senses his mortality and merely wants to be free of the burden of his pact with the devil that has placed him were he is. His denial of God has it’s consequences, but maybe that is the point. For a man who states that he does not believe in miracles, he behaves as though one will occur for him. He throws himself at the world’s feet to be forgiven. Or, is that simply his funeral pyre that he tosses himself upon, because it is not the world’s feet that he needs to prostrate himself before. It is that which has placed his soul on this floating, spinning blue rock to be tested. Then again, maybe it is our own eyes that are blinded by envy and revenge. Forgive us lord, we are all weak, no better than this poor lost soul.

Alloa Akbar
21st Jan 2013, 09:28
The Armstrong witch-hunt still goes on, meanwhile other drug cheats such as Contador will be lining up for the TDF this year.. Oh the irony. :ugh:

Armstrong is no better or worse than any of the other drugs cheats, he just made more money, that, I fear is still at the crux of everyone's thinking.. Oh those poor multi-national companies who have served the public with such honesty down the years, how awful for them to be associated with Armstrong..

As the Americans say "Puh-leeze!"

rgbrock1
21st Jan 2013, 13:16
Alloa:

Spot on! But Cantodor didn't cheat. The performance-enhancing drugs were contained in the steak he ate the night before one of the stages he won.
And he didn't know anything about it. I guess the cow was trying to enhance its performance, who knows?!!!!

Bwwwaaaaa-haaaaaa-haaaaaa-haaaaaaaaa

MagnusP
21st Jan 2013, 13:22
This may bring a smile.

BBC News - Australia library in Armstrong pledge prank (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21115720)

Alloa Akbar
21st Jan 2013, 14:56
So LA is going to get sued bigtime, however, anyone willing to bet against him signing up a movie deal??

wings folded
21st Jan 2013, 18:12
Why not just ignore him?

No money in being ignored.

rgbrock1
21st Jan 2013, 18:30
I still think it's an outrage that Alberto Contador is showing his face at this
year's TdF. He should just go away like all the other cheats and liars.

G-CPTN
22nd Jan 2013, 14:35
BBC News - Lance Armstrong: Man buys 7,000 DVDs before Oprah interview (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21145592)

Temp Spike
22nd Jan 2013, 14:46
wings - That's what I say. Unfortunately the media makes sure one cannot fully ignore by constant programming.

Alloa Akbar
22nd Jan 2013, 15:30
Despite my earlier attempt at humour, I note today that Bradley Cooper is being approached to play Armstrong in a movie.. Given Cooper's past credits for playing a drug enhanced individual, I'd say he's a good choice!!

Takan Inchovit
23rd Jan 2013, 08:29
I'm quoting somebody else here;

Can't we give lance Armstrong a break, I tried riding a bike on drugs once and it wasn't that [email protected]#ing easy!

Couldn't agree more.

rotornut
24th Jan 2013, 19:02
Now he's being sued: Lance Armstrong, publishers slapped with lawsuit claiming his books defrauded consumers - thestar.com (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1319401--lance-armstrong-publishers-slapped-with-class-action-lawsuit-claiming-his-books-defrauded-consumers)

Sounds a bit far-fetched to me but it's in California so I guess it's to be expected.

rgbrock1
24th Jan 2013, 19:06
rotornut:

The fact that the suers are in Californication is irrelevant. This is the US my friend, land of the frivolous lawsuit.

Where else, on god's blue planet, could someone sue MacDonald's, and win, for spilling hot coffee on herself causing burns?

<ever see the warning label on coffee cups served by MacDonalds? Caution: Contents hot. Can cause burns. This was done after the aforementioned imbecile's successful lawsuit.>

Temp Spike
24th Jan 2013, 19:07
Uh no. This was well known to happen. Only the tip of the ice berg really.

11Fan
24th Jan 2013, 20:08
I may just go out and sue the author of that last self-help book I read. It was about "Dealing With Your Addiction To Self-Help Books."

Guess I should have put two and two together when I bought the sequel to the first one.

Obviously, he didn't have a clue.

Mr Chips
24th Jan 2013, 20:24
Where else, on god's blue planet, could someone sue MacDonald's, and win, for spilling hot coffee on herself causing burns?

<ever see the warning label on coffee cups served by MacDonalds? Caution: Contents hot. Can cause burns. This was done after the aforementioned imbecile's successful lawsuit.>

Such a shame that this isn't actually the whole truth (I thought everyone knew the truth behind this one)

From the website of Consumer Attorneys of California "Know the Facts:" Resources for Consumers (http://www.caoc.org/index.cfm?pg=facts)
The coffee was not just “hot,” but dangerously hot. McDonald’s corporate policy was to serve it at a temperature that could cause serious burns in seconds. Mrs. Liebeck’s injuries were far from frivolous. She was wearing sweatpants that absorbed the coffee and kept it against her skin. She suffered third-degree burns (the most serious kind) and required skin grafts on her inner thighs and elsewhere.

Liebeck’s case was far from an isolated event. McDonald’s had received more than 700 previous reports of injury from its coffee, including reports of third-degree burns, and had paid settlements in some cases.


Sorry, I have this terrible OCD for using facts instead of made up stories

Temp Spike
24th Jan 2013, 20:28
Always good to sue rich corporations since they do not pay their share of tax. How else can the public's money be returned to the public?

bnt
1st Feb 2013, 09:05
"I wish I was special ... "
CmgMUFzmDss

MagnusP
1st Feb 2013, 10:55
Mr Chips, Liebeck chose to open the coffee when it was clamped between her thighs. Dangerously hot? What temperature do you normally make tea or coffee at? The reduction from $2.7M to $640K would seem to indicate that the judge assessed her contributory negligence at 60%, or more her fault than theirs.

unclenelli
1st Feb 2013, 13:39
What's the difference between Lance Armstrong and an RAF Spinning instructor?................................


























































































An RAF Spinning Instructor has Medals!