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gruntie
14th Jan 2013, 19:42
After Jessops it's HMV (on the news channels now).

George B Duffy
14th Jan 2013, 19:45
Sadly the writings been on the wall for music shops for a while, surprised they've lasted this long.

toffeez
14th Jan 2013, 19:54
They must be ancient writings.

dead_pan
14th Jan 2013, 19:55
Weird - I predicted exactly this yesterday afternoon whilst chatting to my chums.

racedo
14th Jan 2013, 19:55
HMV Poised To Call In Administrators (http://news.sky.com/story/1038002/hmv-poised-to-call-in-administrators)

bnt
14th Jan 2013, 20:37
After Jessops it's HMV (on the news channels now).
From the Sky News story above:
HMV is run by Trevor Moore, who recently took over having held the chief executive's post at Jessops.
Hmmm ... interesting. I wonder what he'll do next, if anything? :hmm:

racedo
14th Jan 2013, 20:46
Whereever Trevor takes over its a good time to brush up the CV.

Lizz
14th Jan 2013, 21:00
This has been on the cards for a very long time, I'm suprised it never happened sooner. I used to shop there 18 months ago, I was always one for having a proper CD and DVD, call me old fashioned but although I'm young I can't be bothered alot of the time with new technology. But then I bought a car with a bluetooth connection so I can play music off my phone without wires, my boyfriend sorry fiance (not used to that one yet!) downloaded films, tv programmes etc so the need for DVD's became obsolete as well/I became money aware and looked online for the best deal.

I remember a time when video tapes went down the drain and DVD's became the thing, also casettes became CD's and now we don't even need anything but the internet! Great because it saves shelf space but it makes me feel old to think I'll be having children in the coming years that may not even know what a DVD/CD is :eek:

*edited to apologise to anyone who now feels REALLY old :p

11Fan
14th Jan 2013, 21:21
... apologies to anyone who now feels REALLY old

If you can identify what these are, then you are old I'm afraid.

http://flowtv.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ill12.png

Lord Spandex Masher
14th Jan 2013, 21:25
Charlie Chaplin's control rods?

Depone
14th Jan 2013, 21:36
A disaster for true music lovers. Now we're stuck with whatever 'popular' music Tesco decide to stock or Amazon choose to promote. No more browsing, impromptu buys.

As for the 'download' generation, do you people in towns realise that most of the country have pathetic download speeds, such that downloading music or, ha ha ha, a movie, is impossible! I get 1mb on a good day!

Lizz
14th Jan 2013, 21:48
If you can identify what these are, then you are old I'm afraid.


S**t, 23rd birthday next month is obviously going to be a pot of tea with some finger sandwiches :{

Depone, at the moment I live a 20 minute drive from Manchester city centre and I can barely hit 1mg, a youtube video is usually out of the question!
Luckily I'm moving soon so maybe it will improve, however wherever I live I jinx the internet speed and I'm yet to know what the internet is like at full potential!!

Halfbaked_Boy
14th Jan 2013, 21:56
Oh s**t, all I'm bothered about is I get down one of their stores tomorrow and spend that 20 voucher I got for Xmas!

dead_pan
14th Jan 2013, 21:57
This has been on the cards for a very long time, I'm suprised it never happened sooner.

Indeed - as with Jessops I recall they had several close calls with their lenders over the past few years. It seems they too were given one last chance to redeem themselves over Christmas.

I've grown to loath HMV's shops - crowded, noisy, chocked full of stock much of which seemed to be forever discounted, anything you'd want to buy over-priced and/or impossible to find. Good riddance I say, although as ever I do feel sorry for those who'll lose their jobs. Hopefully it will give those few remaining independent record stores a much-needed fillip.

racedo
14th Jan 2013, 22:11
Oh s**t, all I'm bothered about is I get down one of their stores tomorrow and spend that 20 voucher I got for Xmas!

Think you will find yourself late.............

Voucher was with company who went into Administration and Administrators will most likely not honour voucher.

racedo
14th Jan 2013, 22:13
HMV in third profit warning of this year | Business | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/05/hmv-third-profit-warning-this-year)

HMV has been walking dead for a couple of years.

Halfbaked_Boy
14th Jan 2013, 22:18
racedo, hmm technically they're not in admin yet, I guess signatures are going to be exchanged tomorrow...

Failing that, do you think I could sell it to some sucker on eBay?

Nervous SLF
14th Jan 2013, 22:49
"Rabbits ears" an aeriel for TV's Yes I am old as when one was a child we had a hand wind up gramophone which played things called records in mono. Stereo record players came much later. Oh yes don't forget 8 track tape players in cars :(

west lakes
14th Jan 2013, 22:54
Thrown in the towel

Struggling HMV Calls In Administrators (http://news.sky.com/story/1038057/struggling-hmv-calls-in-administrators)

Tankertrashnav
14th Jan 2013, 23:11
Only places that'll be left in the High Street soon will be Costa Coffee and the like, as everything else you can buy online. As I can't stand the luke warm bowls of brown milky stuff these places sell I'll no longer have any reason to go into town,

Cant say I'll be that bothered, though.

G-CPTN
14th Jan 2013, 23:23
Only places that'll be left in the High Street soon will be Costa Coffee and the like,Our town has a proliferation of charity shops interspersed with estate agents and women's hairdressers.

Metro man
14th Jan 2013, 23:39
The Virgin Megastore in Paris is facing insolvency.

Virgin Megastore France faces insolvency - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8259a966-5689-11e2-aa70-00144feab49a.html#axzz2I01t273X)

You need to click on the link due to copyright, can't paste the story here.

Our town has a proliferation of charity shops interspersed with estate agents and women's hairdressers

I noticed the same thing on a recent visit, small town with nine charity shops, M&S had just closed, lots of vacant retail space. Another street I remember from childhood was full of take away food shops and convenience stores. The rest had all gone.

Loose rivets
15th Jan 2013, 06:58
The great aunt that took over when my dad left during the war had a sizable place in Colchester. It now looks dreadful, and is full of people that can barely speak English. It's a foreign restaurant and smells nice - indeed, they were quite nice, but it had been such a place of mystery to me.

G-aunt used to make a gross profit of 33 and a 1/3 % Always except for sales. She knew where she was.

Colchester used to buzz on a Saturday morning. It's still not too bad, but you can feel the leaden burden the owners are under.

As more businesses fail, there are less people to pay the money-grabbing, self-rewarding council. Hence the proliferation of charity shops - I assume it gets the property tax/rates off the backs of the freehold owners.

Mind you, many start-ups deserve what they get. Six similar businesses in the town and they start a seventh. They just stand at the door and wonder why no one comes in. Kind of sad.

When we ran the computer company I was on about, we seriously considered renting nearly 3,000 feet of prime office space in Colchester. The incumbents were desparate to get out and offered us a heck of a start up package. I just happened to live near the owner and he briefed me on the future rent scales.
"we just have to get a return on the capital value of the property." (Sic)

I was grateful to him, but felt he was capitalism at its worst/best take your pick. His property portfolio included half the town - exaggeration , but it's a lot - but sadly, It's my opinion, putting up prices because of increased real estate value is what inflation is all about. I predict a time when all but a very few things are ordered on the net. It's happened here. Even Best Buy, a fortune 500 company, is on the brink of disaster. People go in okay, but browse and then order from home.

Even as an English schoolboy, I knew of Sears. Go into the store here - it's still palatial - but you'll likely not get served at all. A wall of big screen Tvs, but no sales staff. If one turns up, it's likely he will be on commission only.

Hard old world.








.

Groundbased
15th Jan 2013, 07:05
Our town has a thriving independent music shop. Prices are comparable to online, they get what you want within 24 hours if they haven't got it. They've developed links with unsigned and new bands who aren't so heavily promoted online, and so have generated a pool of customers. They also have a thriving second hand market in CDs DVDs which are much cheaper than online.

HMV couldn't carry on that was for sure. They could have been an Amazon competitor if they'd really tried 10 years ago. The 220m debt pile doesn't help though, you can't get away from the economic realities of running a business on debt, they catch up with you. A bit like running countries on debt.

Clare Prop
15th Jan 2013, 07:11
:(


I would like to buy a Grammophone - Not The Nine O'Clock News (NTNOCN) - YouTube

mixture
15th Jan 2013, 07:21
As more businesses fail, there are less people to pay the money-grabbing, self-rewarding council. Hence the proliferation of charity shops - I assume it gets the property tax/rates off the backs of the freehold owners.


Actually business rates are paid by the tenant that's got the lease, and the position on vacant properties was changed fairly recently in that landlords are liable for business rates on vacant non-domestic properties.

So money-grabbing landlords get to pay the money-grabbing councils when properties are vacant.... sounds like a good thing to me ! :E

sitigeltfel
15th Jan 2013, 07:56
So money-grabbing landlords get to pay the money-grabbing councils when properties are vacant.... sounds like a good thing to me ! :E

Money grabbing councils see all businesses as cash cows, not just those on the High Street. Business rates on modest factory units, located in obscure industrial estates, attract eye watering taxes to fund the councils profligate spending. Half the units on the estate where I had my company in the UK are lying empty now. The council have built themselves a shiny new office complex on prime land.

dead_pan
15th Jan 2013, 08:17
The 220m debt pile doesn't help though

Can't be ar5ed to check but isn't HMV private equity owned? That would explain the debt mountain (they've no doubt more than re-couped their investment).

If I were a betting man I'd put a wager on some of the other well-known PE-owned high street names such as Halfords going into meltdown in the next year or two. Add to the list some other highly indebted businesses e.g Fat Face, Debenhams, parts of the Arcadia group (has anyone been into BHS recently? Shocking) etc etc. Times are a changin'.

ORAC
15th Jan 2013, 08:22
Oh s**t, all I'm bothered about is I get down one of their stores tomorrow and spend that 20 voucher I got for Xmas!

HMV Collapse: Gift Cards And Vouchers Invalid (http://news.sky.com/story/1038182/hmv-collapse-gift-cards-and-vouchers-invalid)

Dr Jekyll
15th Jan 2013, 08:33
Can't be ar5ed to check but isn't HMV private equity owned? That would explain the debt mountain (they've no doubt more than re-couped their investment).

No, they are/were a public company.

RJM
15th Jan 2013, 09:14
It could be that this is an aspect of a fundamental shift in the way retail commerce happens, with changes in the other things that go alng with shopping - interaction with others, support for suppliers of advertising, logistics, shop fittings and all the other activities that are part of retail commerce.

Maybe we'll all stay home in little fortresses, while goods bought on-line are delivered are delivered to us from huge regional warehouses.

Thanks to huge 3D screens, the distinction between real and online experience will boil down to temperature.

Unemployment would have to rise. Some people may never be employed, but they could still consume. Perhaps they could be given the means to buy anyway, to keep the machine turning.

Hmm. Time to think about something else.

sitigeltfel
15th Jan 2013, 09:26
Hands up how many of us have gone into a High Street store to look at the various models of the item we are interested in, then gone home to order your choice over the internet at a lower price? Big stores have just been reduced to unwitting showrooms for the big internet retailers, and like it or not, they are disappearing one by one. Even the advice they could give has been replaced by on-line reviews from other buyers.

It is the new way of doing things, get used to it.

toffeez
15th Jan 2013, 09:29
The last time I went to a store to look for an obscure DVD the experience was not pleasant.

After spending at least 15 minutes roaming the aisles without success I reluctantly approached an assistant. He searched for it on his computer terminal then proudly announced they don't have it and can't order it.

I went home, searched the internet, and found only Amazon.es had it. I received it from Spain within a few days.

Never again will I waste my time in a high street music shop.

Sitigeltfel: the spotty-faced uneducated youths employed by the likes of Comet (RIP) could never be trusted to give advice. Another reason for the decline that they brought upon themselves.

RJM
15th Jan 2013, 09:39
How can bricks and mortar stores possibly compete?

Tableview
15th Jan 2013, 09:40
the spotty-faced uneducated youths employed by the likes of Comet (RIP) could never be trusted to give advice. Another part of the problem.

I only ever bought two small items from Comet, a Tom Tom and a multi-purpose printer. The service and knowledge the two people concerned displayed far exceeded what I expected, which admittedly set a low target. Far better than PC World though.

I only went into an HMV store once, and walked straight out again as I couldn't stand the noise.

500N
15th Jan 2013, 09:42
By having an on line system as well as bricks and mortar.

" Never again will I waste my time in a high street music shop."

And that is what people don't get, very rarely do I or others go "shopping"
or "window shopping" to see what is available.
People now either look at a catalogue or research on line, look around, maybe buy it on line straight away or as I do depending on the item, go into the store
and look at the items and then buy it.

500N
15th Jan 2013, 09:43
The jobs are being transferred from Brick shops to warehouse type shops
and packing and shipping. The internet does actually generate jobs.

dead_pan
15th Jan 2013, 09:50
Maybe the high street will become an exclusive domain for women - after all they're the only ones who have the stamina and interest in actual shopping. I find my will to live draining away if I spend more than a few minutes in any shop - life really is too short for such soul-destroying activities.

On-line shopping is far more agreeable. After all you can be shopping on one tab and simultaenously PpRuNing (or, God forbid, Faceaching) on another.

Tableview
15th Jan 2013, 09:59
Maybe the high street will become an exclusive domain for women - after all they're the only ones who have the stamina and interest in actual shopping. I find my will to live draining away if I spend more than a few minutes in any shop - life really is too short for such soul-destroying activities.:D:D

The only things worse than a shop is a shopping centre. I lose my sense of humour, sense of direction, and the will to live. I have been known to flip completely and bolt for the nearest exit, once causing me to be detained as a suspected shoplifter!

toffeez
15th Jan 2013, 10:01
Makes me realise how difficult it is to predict the bloody obvious.

E-mail should have put the 'snail mail' out of business and post offices with it.

Not at all: the smart operators were reborn as the owners of (e.g.) DHL and the package business is booming.

ORAC
15th Jan 2013, 10:05
I'm lucky in that Brighton has 4-5 specialist CD/vinyl specialist music shops. The type that has posters in the window listing the albums due out in the month ahead, the groups performing in town and staff with in depth knowledge of their market and local scene.

They'll never replace Amazon or Play.com, but they'll never try too.

The future is specialist stores which add a level or service or knowledge - general or local - which can't be satisfied online.

The down side is an ever growing number of low skilled school leavers who are permanently unemployable.

SpringHeeledJack
15th Jan 2013, 10:23
The big retailers should convert their shops into 'showrooms' with competent advisors and the rest done over the internet. Much lower overheads, no deliveries, no cash worries or CC machines etc etc. I suppose that it will just be specialists and the internet in a few years. As has been mooted, the female of the species will stay true to the high street simply because they love 'retail grazing' and trying wearables on. Men always seemed to prefer to go, get and then scarper asap. Bearing this in mind it is possibly the men who are killing the high street with the WWW.



SHJ

west lakes
15th Jan 2013, 10:27
The future is specialist stores which add a level or service or knowledge - general or local - which can't be satisfied online.

Is that not the way it used to be? Until the chains took over or forced the independents out of business.
Only to go under themselves!

G-CPTN
15th Jan 2013, 10:28
Where does Argos fit into all this (OK, admittedly not in the music business, but in the general consumer market)?

Andy_S
15th Jan 2013, 10:37
Where does Argos fit into all this?

They're not exactly in a good way themselves.....
Argos chief John Walden could close stores in 'radical overhaul' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9237303/Argos-chief-John-Walden-could-close-stores-in-radical-overhaul.html)

Groundbased
15th Jan 2013, 10:42
To me this is less about the behaviour and habits of individuals than the playing out of corporate capitalism.

Although hmv might seem a large company they are a minnow in comparison to the few global corporates that dominate this market. Leaving aside that their strategy was wrong their attempt to compete resulted in growing debt and eventual administration.

There is no place for mid size retailers in this new online world the amazons and co will ruthlessly squeeze these retailers out through price war and ease of use. I see anazon and others are now making local collection possible through their network of sellers. This is he way it will be. The only future for the high street is niche retailers.

AlpineSkier
15th Jan 2013, 10:43
In that respect, I suppose you could say that catalogue stores were a halfway-house between ordinary retailers and the Net-retailers, but the concept never did very well in the UK.

Metro man
15th Jan 2013, 10:55
A high street music shop would have to be very good to compete against what's available online. With my computer I can search for any disc by any artist and have it instantly available for download. I can also preview each track on the disc and buy them individually instead of the whole album. And I can do this 24 hours a day while sitting at home with a nice cup of tea.

How many people really need advice when buying music, except perhaps for really specialised areas ? Generally they know what they want and don't need to compare one band against another, the online download services even have recommendations based on previous purchases or they type of music you are browsing.

With iTunes I don't have to worry about losing the disc or it deteriorating. I can have access to my entire library if I have an internet collection or carry thousands of tracks in my mobile phone.

Same with DVD rental, no need to go to the shop to pick it up and no late fees. Even the most popular new release is guaranteed to be available and no worries about getting a dud disc.

dead_pan
15th Jan 2013, 11:00
Of course the likes Amazon and Play.com have benefitted from some fairly creative accounting resulting in a non-existent CT bill. HMV should have set up a Luxembourg-based subsidiary to buy their stock and supply it at inflated rates to their 'loss-making' UK business. They could also have claimed that all their tills were not in fact tills but monetary storage devices operated by a Dutch subsidiary and their sales staff were a figment of our imagination.

Dr Jekyll
15th Jan 2013, 17:20
Since HMV have been making a loss for the last 2 years there was no corporation tax to avoid.

MG23
15th Jan 2013, 17:30
"Rabbits ears" an aeriel for TV's Yes I am old We still use them for the few broadcast channels that are left after the digital switchover; we don't want to pay $100 a month for cable and most things we do want to watch we buy or borrow on DVD. Canadian houses don't come with real TV aerials as most people do have cable. Stereo record players came much later. Apparently they're the in thing again now; my girlfriend wants me to buy her one for Valentine's Day. As for HMV, I stopped by when I was on a business trip to London a couple of years ago hoping to pick up some old British TV shows on DVD (the original Survivors and a couple of others from the 70s/80s, so not terribly obscure) and they didn't have any of them. Got Amazon UK to ship them over in the end and probably paid quite a bit less than I would have done if HMV had them. So I'm surprised they've lasted this long.

racedo
15th Jan 2013, 22:27
Where does Argos fit into all this (OK, admittedly not in the music business, but in the general consumer market)?

Getting shafted by Treco / Amazon and others.

SWMBO pretty much did all Christmas shopping online, saved the hassle of crowds, parking, littlies and me not wanting to be there.

Wonder how long you could go for without physically needing to enter a retail premises (Pub excepted).

Cpt_Pugwash
16th Jan 2013, 16:45
A friend mentioned yesterday that she had noticed that T E Stockwell and COhen were still selling HMV gift cards, and when informed, seemed reluctant to remove them from the display.
I was in the local Co-Op today, and noticed that they also had these gift cards on display. When asked if they were on sale, the assistant replied that they were. When I pointed out that, as HMV were in adminstration they were unlikely to be accepted, he eventually removed them from the display. Ten cards at 20 each, so would the retailer have to recover that from the administrators, or are they knowingly passing on the exposure to unsuspecting customers?
I will wander into the Sons of Morris tomorrow just to check, since they have been promoting gift cards as part of their petrol offer.

beaufort1
16th Jan 2013, 17:04
HMV in Guernsey is still accepting gift cards and vouchers.

Tankertrashnav
16th Jan 2013, 17:21
Wonder how long you could go for without physically needing to enter a retail premises (Pub excepted).


Depending on which figures you take, they are closing at the rate of 16-18 a week in the UK.

Last orders, please?

Nick Riviera
18th Jan 2013, 16:50
Doesn't cost the retailer anything to stock the cards. They have no value until they are purchased and activated at the till.

Sprogget
18th Jan 2013, 17:02
That's not necessarily the case at all. Tesco as a case in point will charge most suppliers for listing, gondola position, logistic failures & promotions. The gondola position being the case in point. You approach Tesco & ask them to list your product & display it in 3000 stores. If they agree and you don't hit your forecast sales, you're out. They argue that there is finite space in store & the range must maximise the sales, as any good business should.

In fact recently, they are more & more charging the supplier for revenue difference if sales don't meet forecast based on the same argument. Since I supply Tesco daily, I live with this headache constantly. Tesco are not interested in relationships, they are interested in margin, so it is not true to say it costs retailers nothing to list products in store and that is before you get to storage & distribution, merchandising and a dozen more costs involved in the final supply chain. Where Tesco lead, others follow - they are all at it.

racedo
18th Jan 2013, 17:44
Sproggett

Mate works for someone who supplies the biggies and told me that if a customer brings a product back that he gets hit with 50 charge from the retailer..............shocked me when he said it didn't matter if there was nothing wrong, they just charge it anyway.

Nick Riviera
19th Jan 2013, 08:02
So it doesn't cost the retailer anything if a voucher supplier goes bust. This was in reply to an earlier comment concerning this. Yes, I understand that there is a cost associated with stocking the item but that was not what I was addressing. Should have made that clearer I suppose.

Metro man
19th Jan 2013, 10:20
Basically if a company goes under and you hold a gift voucher, you are an unsecured creditor and well down the queue when it comes to getting paid out. If you get anything at all it is likely to be months later.:sad:

G-CPTN
19th Jan 2013, 10:25
Basically if a company goes under and you hold a gift voucher, If over 100 and bought using a creditcard, you can claim on the CC - they can effect a charge-back on the company.

G-CPTN
21st Jan 2013, 12:02
HMV now accepting gift vouchers again.