Misty eyed and looking back...

[heights good]

Over a few glasses of wine with friends this afternoon the conversation drifted to the past and how the military has changed. This got us all misty eyed and looking back with romantic notions of what used to be and how "back in the day, things were better". :{

No JPA, a pint or 2 with lunch, a decent chance to travel (without CBA), lots of flying, promotion, decent pension, slim and attractive Stn Cdrs Daughters, etc.

The flip side today, lots of time away on Ops, pension being 'Jimmy Saville'd', downsizing, pay freezes, old and weary kit, 'Elf and Safety', paperwork, secondary duties, pointless surveys, 'Line Managers' and I am sure a multitude more.

How have things changed, for the good and not so good. What changes have you seen in the last 10 - 15 yrs, good and bad, would you join up if you had to live your life again? Not sure I would...

Anyway, Vino awaits.

HG

[Herod]

I joined up in Dec '64, just before my 18th birthday, had some good flying times and left in Dec '76, just after my 30th. I consider them both to have been good decisions.

[BEagle]

Would you join up if you had to live your life again? Not sure I would...



Nope, absolutely no way! I entered RAF Cranwell at the age of 17 and finally pulled my personal B&Y 35 years and almost 10000 hrs later after it was obvious that the RAF had had its day.....:(

[West Coast]

But then you wouldn't be able to start your stories the way you do about how you know a mate who bulloxed the Yanks, fought the Yanks, outdrank the Yanks, out ironied the Yanks...


It just wouldn't be the same Beag's

[flipflopman RB199]

I think that personally, I absolutely would.

Whilst it's all too easy to look back on the good times and compare them with life in the RAF today, when I was joining up, I distinctly remember a conversation with my next door neighbour who was ex VC10 aircrew, telling me how he wouldn't join the RAF of the mid 90's as it must be even worse that the terrible RAF of the early 80's, which in itself wasn't a patch on the glorious Royal Air Force of 1963 that he joined.

I myself was digging through old photographs last week and for the first time really, it dawned on me how YOUNG we all were, and the tremendous responsibilities we all had as mere 18-24 year olds. Although at the time it seemed nothing at all, looking at it now and looking at some of the youngsters who inhabit our towns and cities, it seems all the more incredible.

So, to sum up, yes, even though there are fewer opportunities and choices than there were even a few short years ago, those opportunities and choices will still take you to places and show you things that you would never ever get to experience in any other line of work, notwithstanding the values and outlook on life that a career in the military will give you.

As always, just my 2p worth.


Flipflopman

[Bob Viking]

Didn't we do this topic to death about two months ago? I'd search for the thread but I can't work out how to do it on an iPhone!
BV:(

[ExMaintainer]

Looking back, i would definatly join again.
Missed so many oportunities, if only i knew
then, what i know now. 20 20 hindsight and all that.
Nice to dream. I miss aviation.

Ex Maintainer

[AGS Man]

I definitely would. I recently acquired a new next door neighbour (in UK) and he's serving in the RAF. The day I returned home he made a point of saying hello, inviting me to his house warming party etc. There were quite a few young uns there but the banter was the same and I'd like to think the spirit was the same.

[1.3VStall]

If I could turn the clock back to 1968 I would definitely join again. If I was 18 again now would I join?: not a chance!

[lurkposition]

When I joined in 1971 I was told the RAF was pants, shrinking and no fun like the old days. I stayed for 35 years and insisted on enjoyng my time, and I did. Approaching retirement age, I did find myself saying to the young students of mine that it was not as good as the past. I think we all suffer from the excitement of our first day in the forces and would like it to stay the same way forever. Whenever peeps joined the forces they liked what they saw over that early period of their lives so I reckon that if I was 45 years younger I would still join today.
Make the most of it is what I say. 35 years flying on many types, over 10000 hours and no ground tours...yippee!

[Cows getting bigger]

Considering how sh1t life is outside, I would do it all again. The RAF may not be the one we all remember, but the real World has been equally shafted.

[sisemen]

In a heartbeat. Joining today, if you knew no different, would be exactly like joining 50 years ago (which I did - where DID the time go :{)

[reynoldsno1]

Joined in 70 left in 80 - had a great time flying but was never in thrall to the military way of life, or its habits. Never looked back, no misty eyes. Mind you, I also left the UK in 87 ....

[Pontius Navigator]

promotion,

I missed that. There was even a Supplementary List tie. It was a ladder with just 3 rungs.

[octavian]

Joined in '71, left in '90. Loads of good times, a few not so good. The concept didn't change, but perhaps I did. No regrets. Do it again now. Yes. It is life affirming.

[thing]

Joined '74 left in '96. If I had my time again I would have gone to uni and joined as a pilot instead of a techy. Don't know why I didn't to be honest looking back. Finished up paying out of my own pocket to be a pilot, which seems ludicrous when I could have actually been paid to learn to fly.

As to whether it was better, I still maintain contact with the RAF through my flying activities and my serving colleagues seem to be the same sort of guys that I knew when I was in. The only difference I would say is that there appear to be less of the 'characters' that there were when I was in. I suppose they've been elf and safetied out of existence. As someone has already pointed out, it's always great when you join and goes steadily downhill. I don't think when you join has any bearing on it. My next door neighbour used to fly Shacks in the 50's and tells me how the RAF went downhill in the 60's......

[Tankertrashnav]

I joined up in Dec '64, just before my 18th birthday, had some good flying times and left in Dec '76, just after my 30th. I consider them both to have been good decisions.


Interesting Herod, my dates/age are almost exactly the same as yours. Never regretted the first decision, frequently regretted the second one. But there you go, we make our beds and lie on them.

[Mr-Burns]

Is there anybody in this thread still serving???

[Tinribs]

Joined in 64 left,unwillingly, at my 38.

The RAF is part of society and so changes with it are inevitable

Looking back many of the things I saw were wrong, even illegal, but the service survived and grew, most of us did the same

The thing I most regret are the obvious nonsenses that seemed to become more frequent as the years went by. I may lack the wisdom to understand why these things were being done but so did others

We wasted vast amounts of money in aquiring kit we didn't want or need and then disposing of it while we lacked basic equipment such as flying boots.

Our admin arrangements seemed haphazard with people on the same base being subject to different terms because different command accountants rulings applied and no one understood the rules anyway

We treated women both serving and families very badly even though we needed their expertise and support

Overall I am delighted to have served in the days I did but wish I had been more system savy and kept my mouth shut more. I used to have a note in my hat saying Caution engaged brain before operating mouth but rarely saw it it time to avoid stupud oral errors.

Would I advise others to join now? depends what the options were

[Ken Scott]

Is there anybody in this thread still serving???

Yes. Joined several decades ago, still flying, still (mostly) enjoying it, even the sandy bits. Yes, it's an entirely different RAF to the one I joined, I'm still often shocked/ despairing of some of the decisions made by the youngsters who now seem to be the senior officers, but I wouldn't swap it for the different shade of grass that exists outside because at its heart the same type of people still join as did when I started, with a 'can do' ethos & cameraderie that does not seem to exist elsewhere. Many of the opportunities that still exist in today's RAF are still unavailable elsewhere.

Would I join again? Absolutely.

Would I try & put off my son who wishes to join? Absolutely not.

Every generation has proclaimed that 'it's not like when they joined', and those joining today will no doubt say it in their turn. The outside world has changed radically & so many things have gone - jobs for life, employer loyalty, final salary pensions, security of employment etc. For the RAF to be unaffected at the same time would be unthinkable.

Much of the personal kit that we get issued with today, & in such quantities, is far better than the tat they used to issue us - DMS boots anyone? I now have a cupboard of footwear for all occasions, made by the likes of Meindl & Lowa. The new GSR is superb. Clothing is more comfortable & functional than it ever was. Remember hairy shirts & puttees?

We may not as a nation be able to afford the number of squadrons that we used to possess but the aircraft are better - Typhoon, F35 (hopefully), C17, Voyager, A400M (hopefully), C130J (sorry, tried to think of a rotary example but couldn't...!). I would suggest that the experiences of the past years have made the RAF a far more operationally capable force than the one that mostly just exercised during the Cold War. The transformation of my own force over this time has been nothing short of remarkable. What we have lost is the rates, hotels & other junkets that made it more fun back then but like the MP's moats & duck houses things had to change.

The world moves on & everything changes, nothing is like it used to be. Some things get better, some things get worse. It is a natural instinct for people as they get older to hark back to the past, when we had enough hair to comb & could still see our feet when standing up, because that was when we were young & vigorous & had our lives mostly in front of us. Every generation references itself by its own youth.

[langleybaston]

Is not the natural progression through a career [for want of a better word] thus:

1. all for it
2. after promotion/ progression etc even more all for it
3. coasting, but responding well to suitable stimulus
4. eyeing retirement, calculating pension, mortgage
5. roll on my [insert date/ period in service etc
6. retire




7. absolutely gutted: lost ID, status, title, responsibilities, and under spouse's feet all day
8. reunions, holidays, discover there is life out there
9. nostalgia, write to threads like this.

Its not just RAF, its all the services, and certainly the Met Office part of MoD.

[Hovermonkey]

sorry, tried to think of a rotary example but couldn't...!

Wildcat (hopefully!!!) :ok:

[Bob Viking]

Ken Scott.
Bloody well said that man. I remember arguing a similar viewpoint on a similar thread a couple of months back.
Things change. We all grow up eventually (although my wife may disagree!).
By the way I am still serving and happy enough right now.
BV

[Jabba_TG12]

Joined in 83 left in 99.

Barring one environmental posting, hell yes, I'd do it all again. And would change very very little at all.