View Full Version : A moral dilemma

13th Jan 2013, 14:24
On Sundays I visit the local Basilica between church services. There is frequently a person standing outside begging; Mrs OFSO always gave a euro to the last one, because he was polite and said something about "go with God" to her....

OTOH, being as tight as an "Entenklemmer" I give nothing. Today however there was a rather attractive young girl standing begging, holding a notice say she'd fallen on hard times, so I have her a euro.

As I walked away I realised had she been fat and ugly I'd have given her nothing.

This is NOT the way charity should work ! but sadly, human nature being what it is......

13th Jan 2013, 14:30
Sounds more like Darwinism...

13th Jan 2013, 14:31
That's how everything works, why would charity be any different? :E

13th Jan 2013, 14:32
Time for confession my son. That will be ten hail marys' and one our father.

13th Jan 2013, 14:38
Get some leaflets for homeless help in your area and take them to the Basilica with you each Sunday. Give those instead of cash - takes care of your parsimoniousness AND helps out more than one euro. ;)

... or give her a hundred euros and make use of that beauty :eek::p

13th Jan 2013, 14:41
Sounds like you wish Slasher to go to church..............

13th Jan 2013, 14:55
There are E. Europeans who often beg outside our supermarket with a note saying their babies are starving. Once I bought some baby-food and milk in the shop and gave it to them. They weren't impressed, didn't say thank you, just scowled at me.

I don't give to beggars any more. Even if they are one of Slasher's friends (which they never are).

13th Jan 2013, 15:01
One is forever giving rather attractive young girls something in the way of money for which divine service is often provided.

13th Jan 2013, 15:02
... or give her a hundred euros and make use of that beauty :eek:http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif - has it gone up that much??:eek:

Load Toad
13th Jan 2013, 15:08
The weird thing is the Basilica is rich & if the people in it wanted to be close to god they'd forgo the Basilica and look after the beggars. All you are doing in the Basilica is taking part in a Panto show and feeding the rich.

13th Jan 2013, 15:11
I have had people coming to my door 'starving', I've made and given them a sandwich and found it lying on the ground later. They can die of starvation now for all I care.

13th Jan 2013, 15:13
Well that's interesting OFSO, I thought about what you said and clearly I react differently.

The older, uglier, dirty, old, sick (or look sick) is the beggar, the more I am willing to give.
I am giving more to women too, thinking (maybe wrongly) it's more difficult for them.
An old woman begging is almost sure to get some money from me.
Maybe that's what happened to you, you saw a girl and probabely thought she was more fragile than the previous beggar who was a man (?) and not because she was pretty?

13th Jan 2013, 15:13
Your true self is revealed. You wrote "so I have her a euro".
I think you meant "I'd have her for a euro".

Anyway if Mrs O is really kind, she wouldn't mind you inviting missy back for a shower (no peeping, honest) a meal and maybe an overnight stay if she's shagged out.

13th Jan 2013, 15:20
And if you give cash directly (rather than through a responsible charity) - you never know where it's going:

Officers in Leicester have launched a crackdown after discovering that none of the 20 beggars they had cautioned in the last fortnight was homeless.

Sergeant Adrian Underwood said some beggars could earn up to 200 on a Friday or Saturday night.
'Professional beggars' earning up to 200 a night to supplement their day job | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205553/Professional-beggars-earning-200-night-supplement-day-job.html)

Gertrude the Wombat
13th Jan 2013, 15:45
Get some leaflets for homeless help in your area and take them to the Basilica with you each Sunday. Give those instead of cash - takes care of your parsimoniousness AND helps out more than one euro.
Trouble is that that doesn't get them any heroin (just like giving baby food and sandwiches doesn't). Giving cash does.

13th Jan 2013, 15:45

13th Jan 2013, 15:51
I keep seeing these poor waifs by the side of the road, in the cold, and I think I really should give them some money so they can buy some warmer clothes.

13th Jan 2013, 15:51
One for Slasher.

Not too long ago outside a local grocery store, there was a young woman with a baby pressed to her breast, nursing. She was asking for help of course. Being a frequent patron to this particular store, I casually mentioned it to one of the managers who replied "Oh, is she back here again?"

Seems she was a "professional" beggar and made the rounds. She was promptly sent on her way.

Not knowing beforehand, I did offer to buy her some food as I passed on the way in but she was just interested in money. I suppose she probably did make some for the period of time she was there as there were sympathetic folks helping out, all women. She was gone by the time I left.

Points for originality though.

Interesting tactic if she was a con.

tony draper
13th Jan 2013, 16:44
My town still has a bylaw that states all beggars and tinkers must be out outside the town limits by sunset or be subject to a flogging and branding.:uhoh:
Fifty of the lash and a large 'M' branded upon the brow,the more educated pruner will know what the 'M' stands for.

Loose rivets
13th Jan 2013, 18:19
Again, I've no need to write anything:

I mentioned this years ago, but one day I was hungry and tired, and heading for Liverpool Street station. A deli at the top of the slope sold me a wonderful sandwich about two inches thick...stuffed with chicken, ham, dressing...looked fantastic. I plonked myself down on a platform seat.

The bloke asking me for money could have made a fortune as Marlon Brando's stand in. Perhaps more like a cross between Brando and Danial Graig. His clothes came from Oxfam's waste bin, but somehow he made them look stylish.

"I havn't got any cash left..." Then in an uncharacteristically generous moment, I offered him half my sandwich. "would you like this?"

He flopped down beside me, took my gift, held it before him with both hands and stared at it with eyes that were scarcely connected to his brain.

"Yeeerrrrrr FCUKIN'....."

Oh, dear. He wanted money...or even booze...or both....

Yerrrr FCUKIN'..................MARVELOUS!" He said, and sank his muchers into the half of my dinner. If I'd dined him at the Ritz, served by six lusty maidens, he couldn't have looked more pleased.

Giving is a great joy

But I wish I'd ordered the spam on sliced white.

13th Jan 2013, 18:23
a) The basilica used to be a cathedral but got an upgrade from the Catholics who brought a Bishop along to do the deed.

b) yes, "gave" not "have". My mistake.

c) KAG, you are assuming my mind works in a calculating way. It doesn't. Pretty sad girl = money. Ghastly old woman = go off and die in a corner somewhere. That's what worries me, I know myself too well.

Oh but people with cats always get a tip from me. There was a guy begging in Paris recently, Place Richelieu-Drouot, sitting in a shop doorway, he had two magnificent large well-fed healthy cats. I gave him a couple of euros and asked if I could stroke the cats, he said yes, Mrs OFSO said to me be careful, you sometimes get an allergy. The begger mistook what she said, and told me, Monsieur, these cats have had every vaccination, they are completely safe for you to stroke, I replied I can see that, they are magnificent animals. Friendly also.

So...pretty young girls and people with cats. But that is IT. No, I also tip very good street musicians, but they must be good !

13th Jan 2013, 18:37
OFSO, every pretty young girl has a cat, but you cun't usually see it.

13th Jan 2013, 18:44
HAHA! Interesting story about this beggar who got cats with the proper vaccinations!
Should he take care of himself instead???? Anyway...

13th Jan 2013, 18:46
every pretty young girl has a cat, but you cun't usually see it.

Not for one euro, anyway.

13th Jan 2013, 18:59
I almost never give money, as I know that will go towards supporting a drug habit.
There was one time I was going into a grocery store, and a very rough looking individual came up asking for assistance. Said he hadn't eaten for a few days. Normally, I wouldn't be moved, but there was something about the look in his eyes, a look of hunger and desperation.
I asked him if I could buy him dinner. There was a restaurant next door. We sat down, I had a coffee, told him he could order anything off the menu, but no alcohol. Even a steak dinner? Yes, even a steak dinner.
So we sat and talked, as I had my coffee and he had his dinner. Turns out he had just come out of prison, with just the shirt on his back, no job to turn to, no family, no friends.
I gave him the location of the government services office, the local church that could give him shelter, and assistance to get going.

I drove past that grocery store for the next little while, but didn't see the gentleman again, so he must have found his way.

I found a young lady in that exact same spot a few months later asking for the same assistance. Again, I offered to buy her dinner. Her response was that if she took me up on that, she would lose her spot in that corner. She received nothing.

13th Jan 2013, 18:59
It's an interesting problem. You go to a church, ran by an organization of paedophiles, who have conjured up a religion that has in the name of it's 'cause' killed millions and enslaved the worlds minds with visions of fantasy. So as you leave this church, pondering your own conflicts between logic and faith, you are confronted with your own moral failings in realizing that you would only give money to a hot chick, because in the end you justify on the premise that in the end, you are an ape on a swing set, only motivated to eat, fling poo, and fornicate. Upon realizing this you take solace in 'when in Rome' fully justifying your crass sensibility and broken logic under the anthropological delusion of 'that's the way it's always been, so let's roll with it'....

This whole 'fail' in your logic is only exceeded by the fact that since you were herded into church, for whatever guilt, herd mentality, socialization....evidently even the charitable teachings for the last 2 hours didn't stick, thus, whatever your purpose for being in church was nullified by a conscious decision of uncharitable action. So your broken logic and moral failings are only exceeded by your negation of the very teachings you have sought out and attended. You are a walking talking contradiction of logic and purpose, going here and there with out so much rationale or reason as to your actions. - Tim Thomas


13th Jan 2013, 19:31
OFSO.... you are guilty of...... being human.

13th Jan 2013, 21:12
Tricky one where i live. There are lots of poor people around here. Some scrape by by scavenging in the rubbish bins, some actually try doing things like busking or making little ornaments out of pepsi cans and some just beg. We have a large elderly population here too, many in their eighties, and they remember when they were also dirt poor under Franco. So they will always give to beggars on the basis that some are genuine. We had a good Spanish friend who, alas, died last year at 85. He would sometimes give to beggars and we asked him how he knew who were genuine. He said 'I just know'.

13th Jan 2013, 21:12
The weird thing is the Basilica is rich & if the people in it wanted to be close to god they'd forgo the Basilica and look after the beggars. All you are doing in the Basilica is taking part in a Panto show and feeding the rich

Acid rich, cash poor and are all beggars poor ?

13th Jan 2013, 21:31
Was once with a group walking back to our crew hotel and accosted by a beggar who asked if we had a quarter for a cup of coffee ?

Gosh ! said one of the group, only a quarter, that's a deal, yes, I'll take one please -- where's the coffee ?

As I was walking out of a hotel in Anchorage, a nicely dressed young women stepped towards me from between two parked cars and asked if I had any change ? I assumed the she wanted change for a dollar for the parking meter so took what I had from my pocket to count out a dollars worth. Thank you, she said, as she scooped up the lot, I've just arrived in town and need a coffee - and walked off !

What was I supposed to do ? Run after her and have her cry Rape ! Who would have been believed ? ( answers on a postcard )

Ignore all pleas now, Charity Begins At Home.

14th Jan 2013, 01:01
The weird thing is the Basilica is rich & if the people in it wanted to be close to god they'd forgo the Basilica and look after the beggarsReminds me of the time I was doing some work with Aer Lingus in the late sixties. Last night of my visit I was taken to this ultra-swish restaurant in the centre of Dublin by the Chief Eng and his most senior avionics eng.

Sitting outside on the pavement were a couple of women, with their three or four children, begging, and looking very much in need of help.

Down the steps and into the restaurant met by the most lavish of furnishings, with hordes of waiters scurrying around with trays of food, and seated at the tables more collared members of the Catholic clergy than you could ever have imagined. Without exception each and every one of them would have been classified as obese.

Had little time for them ever since.

Nervous SLF
14th Jan 2013, 02:34
The other day outside a supermarket a man was collecting for the NZ Para-Olympic team by selling official badges and other Items. I offered him a donation of $5, and said forget the badge. He refused and said it had to be $10 and I would get the badge. I said I didn't want the badge as I had already bought one a few months ago but didn't have it on me, so please take the $5 as a donation. He again refused saying he could only take $10 minimum. He had several different prices for different items to aid this charity - up to $100 as far as I can remember. Should I feel guilty that I said sorry I haven't got $10, even though I did, and so kept my $5?

14th Jan 2013, 03:03
OFSO spare a thought for the ME where distinguishing the pretty beggars with
big tits from the fuglys is a tough job!

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVtdzUOaQNu914X025w5Pmho_bFMTcaSOtV01HXTE _GaApdH_p http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7pH7LxNVanNrLBvFKHyozyNgQBfEbN6qEMUgZ4ja d7huFxz1D

Takan Inchovit
14th Jan 2013, 03:32
I gave a messed up looking beggar outside a small chapel near Milano some change while saying to him " you do that bloody well mate!" :suspect:

14th Jan 2013, 04:35
This chick deserves a big wet sloppy kiss... :\


14th Jan 2013, 07:13
since you were herded into church,

Hardly. I go between services to avoid organised-religion clap-trap, fairy-tales and such rubbish.......

(Sorry if I've ofended anyone !)

14th Jan 2013, 07:47
who have conjured up a religion that has in the name of it's 'cause' killed millions

In it's name ? This reminds me of the anti-gun lobby who claim "guns kill people".

No, people kill people, always have and always will. If they need a hook to hang a reason on, that's not the fault of the hook.

OFSO (who neither subscribes to the Christian religion nor has a gun. Well, not a very big one).

Load Toad
14th Jan 2013, 08:15
Guns help kill people - they are very efficient. You can not kill as many people quickly with a fork, kettle, baseball bat or knife. The argument 'guns kill people' is perfectly valid. If they are not good at killing (actually it is the bullets that do the killing) then arm the army with house bricks and a strong throwing arm - lets see how that works.

With religeon a lot of people can be made to feel the 'inside' group who are right - absolutely right and approved by 'god'. This group can & does, directly & indirectly decide on what charity, menace or threat to put the 'outside' group under.

If you are going to be religeous - please choose Satan - there have been few if any wars fought in his name or with his apparent 'approval'.

14th Jan 2013, 08:21
please choose Satan

I never would have done so but having seen the Lovely Liz playing Satan in "Bedazzled" I'm hooked !

14th Jan 2013, 08:21
OFSO, if you don't have a big gun, what's that thing hanging under your belt?

14th Jan 2013, 08:22
Been watching "Bedazzled" !

Lon More
14th Jan 2013, 08:22
If youi're saving fallen ladies from sin would you please save one for me?

14th Jan 2013, 10:29
Reading through this thread, I suddenly remembered a sweet dear little girl Mrs Fliegs & I encountered in Ho Chi Minh City last August. Walking back from an excellent duck dinner, down a side street next to the Ben Thanh markets she got us.... maybe 11 - 12 years old, with a remarkable grasp of the English language tried selling us all manner of stuff we neither needed or wanted or we already had.....I pull out some dong (Can you say that in a thread reply involving a 12 yr old girl??:uhoh:) And offer her the money....she thrust it right back and said "No! My Mother told me 'you have 2 arms & 2 legs and a brain, you can work for a living'" I was well impressed! Saw her for a few nights after that, and every night she'd find ways to try to get Mrs Fliegs & I to part with the hard earned! Bless her, no doubt she's doing the same tonight in the Saigon streets around Ben Thanh

14th Jan 2013, 10:43
That's "Bin Thanh" Fliegs.

Ben Thanh did my last sim renewal before I left Nam...

14th Jan 2013, 11:08
Oops, yeah sorry Slash! :O I was damned impressed with her though!, wish the ethic would manifest itself with Oz welfare recipients on BOTH sides of politics :rolleyes:

14th Jan 2013, 12:20
You can have the ladies who've been saved from sin. I'll take the ones who'd like to give it a try.

14th Jan 2013, 14:15
Our 33ft Yank Tank Motorhome broke down on a friday evening about 40kms south of San Sebastian on our move from the UK to Spain. We were parked up on an Industrial Estate in an undriveable condition. Saturday morning we decided to walk the three kms into the town to do some grocery shopping. Blisteringly hot day so couldn't leave our dogs in the M/H.
Very hot, very sweaty and incredibly scruffy having been rolling around under the M/H before setting off, I elected to stay outside the town's Lidl superstore with the dogs, a Saluki and a Greyhound, whilst OH took a trolley around the store.
She was gone for ages and I sat on a rail outside the store watching customers come and go. A lady emerged from the store carrying a couple of carrier bags loaded down with groceries, but instead of going directly to her car, came over to me. She put one bag of groceries down in front of me...
"Comida para los perros" she said with a smile. She was about to walk away when I realised what was happening... seeing me totally unkempt, unshaven and as I said very scruffy, she had mistaken me for a town beggar...
Wifey emerged from the store at that point and saw me in conversation with the lady... between us we explained that we were not beggars merely English travellers en route from the UK to Granada and that our motorhome had broken down outside of town. We explained that it was far too hot to leave the dogs behind in the motorhome and that the reason I was so scruffy was that I had been trying to fix the fault before we left to go shopping.
Much embarrassment all round... on the good lady's part for having jumped to conclusions and on our part for allowing me out without first doing something about my appearance...
We had a good laugh about it but the lady insisted that we hang on to the dog-food. She also gave us a lift back to the M/H...

14th Jan 2013, 17:49
we hang on to the dog-food

Supermarkets here have a collection point marked something like "for the poor animals". You go and buy a bag of (whatever), pay for it, and then deposit it in the bin. The biggest hyper and supermarket locally (not part of a chain) also gives free hand-outs to the poor and needy.

14th Jan 2013, 18:28
If youi're saving fallen ladies from sin would you please save one for me?

Lon, Old Man, this is where grammar and orthography assert their importance. Notice, if you will, the distinction between "from" and "for".

14th Jan 2013, 18:33
the dogs, a Saluki

Never heard of it, but many thanks! Set me up for today's last unsolved crossword clue.

14th Jan 2013, 19:20
Bring her home, feed her up, and let her go.

14th Jan 2013, 19:24
Are you sure you are on the right forum , especially if you think Savile's way of life is something to copy.

14th Jan 2013, 20:01
If you are going to be religeous - please choose Satan - there have been few if any wars fought in his name or with his apparent 'approval'.

Think all wars have met with his approval.

14th Jan 2013, 21:07
I shake a tin for charity now and then and the highest percentage of givers are old ladies who look as if they cannot afford it, the lowest percentage of givers are silver haired old gents in their crombie overcoats who look as if they could easily give you a tenner and not notice it.

Load Toad
14th Jan 2013, 21:47
In HK the beggars (most seem to be from the Mainland these days; and an increase in disfigured / disabled too) target the poor and elderly near wet markets & such - their other favoured target are the DH's...neither of these groups have much if any spare cash. 'Rich' people nearly always walk straight past - I do as I reckon most of the 'beggars' are organised by gangs.

We also get 'Fake Monks' who mostly beg off tourists as locals know that real monks do not beg.

Milo Minderbinder
14th Jan 2013, 22:06
Surely that should read "Bring her home, feel her up, and let her go."

15th Jan 2013, 10:54
What if I asked you to put "feed", "feel" and "stuff" in the best time order? Words can be repeated. No connection with Jimmy this time.

16th Jan 2013, 10:00
Life can be tough if you reflect on your actions, so think about how past actions shape future behaviours. Years ago (2003) I wrote messages on this board in a topic called Is the Pope a Christian, in a tone which I now regret. I don't know who, or if anyone, had a hard time or suffered because of my attitude and I am sorry if anyone did.


16th Jan 2013, 10:23
Well, the responses have been interesting. It seems as ever it's the good-looking men and women who succeed in life. Outward appearance is everything.

16th Jan 2013, 10:23
There is, possibly an urban legend, about begging at Waterloo Station.

An actor impersonated a filthy old tramp and walked around the city commuters during the evening rush hour asking for a few pence for a cup of tea. Almost without exception they ignored him or told him to 'get thee hence'.

The next day, the same actor impersonated a well-dressed well-spoken city businessman and approached other businessmen with the line : "I wonder if you could help me out, I left my wallet at the office and need a fiver for my ticket to Surbiton .......Of course I'll get it back to you"

The majority were sympathetic, many of them handing him the money and saying : "Don't worry about giving it back, I'm happy to help you........."

16th Jan 2013, 10:49
"Is the pope a Christian?" Not a daft question in my opinion.

I firmly believe that if JC returned today and witnessed a catholic mass in progress he'd ask "what religion are you lot?" When hearing the reply "Christians" he'd blow his top.

"What right do you, dressed in purple finery and gold, have to use my name? I was poor and helped the poor. Your church is rich and you exploit the poor and the ignorant. I regret coming back".

16th Jan 2013, 11:05
I shake a tin for charity now and then and the highest percentage of givers are old ladies who look as if they cannot afford it, the lowest percentage of givers are silver haired old gents in their crombie overcoats who look as if they could easily give you a tenner and not notice it.

1DC - I no longer give money to charities, or anyone else, on the street or at my door. My wife and I are generous to charitable organizations and we spend a lot of time each year deciding which of them will get our (IMHO generous) contributions.

However on the street you have no way of telling if the person is legitimate. Even with ID hanging around their neck it is impossible to know who the person is, if they represent a valid charity, if that charity is efficient in it's collections, etc. Sorry, too many black hats out there wanting to put their hand in my pocket.

The country where I live has a very good safety net. While there are poor nobody is starving, even those 'sans papiers'. Through my taxes I contribute to them, I'm not going to give them cash on top of that.

16th Jan 2013, 11:19
In Cape Town a lot of charities send collectors round in the evening to restaurants. Unfortunately a lot of chancers jumped on the bandwagon.

I was having dinner with my then girlfriend one evening at the Hussar in Rondebosch, which is as good now as it was years ago, when a young girl came in with a collecting box with the name of well known local charity on it. We invited her to sit at our table and tell us about the charity. She seemed a little nervous and came out with a bit of meaningless babble repeated several times. Unfortunately for her, my g/f was the administration manager for the charity.

The police arrived before the girl even got to the door (Rondebosch police station is about 500 metres way.)

16th Jan 2013, 12:58
Amazingly ancient joke:

Knock knock. Lady of house opens door. Man stands there says "I'm collecting for the local swimming pool". Lady goes away, sounds of tap, comes back and hands him a glass of water.