Why Do You Fly From the Right Hand Seat?

[Breaking_Clouds]

Dear rotorheads,
please correct me if I am wrong,
(I fly fixed wings so I don't know too much about helicopters and I feel really stupid asking this),
I have seen that most of the time in a helicopter the PIC/CPT is flying the right seat, and if there is only one pilot in the helicopter, most of the time he/she sits at the right side.
Is there a (historical) explanation for this seating arrangement?
Because in fixed wings the PIC/CPT usually sits left and the SIC/FO sits right?
Why is it the other way around in a helicopter?
Or am I just having early symptoms of dementia?
BC

[Magumba]

BC,
Very historical, going back to the Sikorsky R-4 during WW2. First two seat helicopter. It only had one collective (the thingy on the left of the seat that makes the world get smaller if you pull up on it) it was in the middle between the pilots.

Most of the new trainees flew from the right side as the old hands all took the left. In time there were more "right seat pilots" than lefties so things got standardized that way.
In fact in those days there were "right seat" pilots and "left seat" pilots. The difference was so great because to change ment completely changing your hand positions, not as easy to do in a helicopter as in an airplane. I've tried it in a Bell 206 flying in the left seat using my right hand for the collective left on the cyclic. Nearly crashed many times while trying to hover. No dought you can learn it but it really messes with your mind.

Also the practical reason is, in the right seat you have your left hand fee to tune radios, etc. (You can friction the collective and let it go) In a helicopter, other than one with SASS or AP, you cannot let go of the cyclic in your right hand. Helicopter wants to flop over and kill you if you do. In fact if you must let it go, fold a map etc you learn to hold the cyclic between your knees and rock your ass around in the seat to keep the dirty side down. Great way to scratch an itchy ass at the same time.

Gets interesting in alot of the small, Bell 47 Hughes 300 and 500, helicopters as the pilot is on the left side, to make more room for pax on the bench beside him, you are constantly changing hands in cruise to hold the cyclic with your left hand to use your right to tune radios, adjust the carb heat, or cabin heat. Takes a little time to get used to the change of hands. Also takes time to learn to get all the bits done before you are on final because there is in addition to the "landing decision" point a "no hands change now" decision point.

So if you want an adventure go take a helicopter lesson some time, its the greatest flying machine of all. You will say its "impossible to fly" when you start but in time you catch on. All the airplane pilots I've given joy rides to end up dropping out of the airplane game to master the slingerwinger full time.
I'm still mastering the beast after 14000 hours, thought I knew it all when I had 10000. I've had 4000 more to teach me I had more to learn.

Keep your turns up, lest the earth arise to smite you.

[Breaking_Clouds]

Magumba,
Thank you very much for your explanation.

About the helicopterlesson, you are right.
I went on a joyride a while ago with one of the pilots of a charter company in Northern NJ, and I immediately realised that flying helicopters might be more fun than flying a fixed wing. Ever since that flight, I have promised myself that as soon as I have payed of my studyloans, I will learn to fly a helicopter. You never know, I might make a careerchange in the future.
For now I'll keep buzzing around in a Fokker 50. Not too bad of a flyingmachine either.

Thanks again,
BC

[Magumba]

BC,
I think the Fokker is a great machine. Best of luck with it and the helicopters.
Keep'm flying.

[MightyGem]

Call me sad if you wish, but while we are on the subject, why is it when you see a helicopter in an American made film, the pilot is usually in the left seat? It can't be 'cos they're just American, or can it??

[Speechless Two]

Breaking Clouds - there was a similar thread in Aircrew Notices (Misc) last month which throws up some more ideas on this subject for you. Try
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum41/HTML/000120.html

------------------
Mind The Gap

[2's forward 1's back]

To Mighty Gem.
Its only a film and maybe the person who is really flying is in the Right seat.
Just an idea.

[Breaking_Clouds]

Thanks Speechless Two,
Did not notice that thread before.
Doesn't look like everybody agrees though on the reason why, but it does give me some ideas.
I think the Sikorsky-story sounds very plausible.

BC

[Whirlybird]

A fellow rotorhead asked me this on chat the other night. I couldn't remember, though I thought I'd read it somewhere. But I can't find the answer anywhere. Is it a weight and balance thing (when flying solo)? Or is it just convention? Is it the same in all helicopters?

Hope you don't mind me asking such a basic question but I'd really like to know.

[TeeS]

Hi. Saves you having to change hands on the cyclic when you want to twiddle the radios etc.

[Grainger]

Also 'cos of tail rotor coupling tends to hover left skid low so better to have solo pilot on right.

Got a feeling thought that some (Enstrom ?) do have solo pilot on the left.

[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Grainger ]

[Thomas coupling]

Tail rotor coupling depends on the direction of rotation!

The truth is that we drive on the right in the air so we have to sit on the right... ;)

[CAT MAN]

What someone told me Eons ago, is that the captain sits on the right, so as to avoid the inconvenience of having to climb over the collective, getting in and out...

[JohnJ]

You may want to read earlier thoughts on this
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000163
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum41/HTML/000120.html

[widgeon]

I thought it was because the captain is always right :p

[chips_with_everything]

Someone did sort of explain on the earlier threads.

It's a no-brainer.

You have to keep weight and BALANCE within the allowable range.

When single-pilot in a teeny chopper such as a Robbie (US counter-clockwise rotation) you are required to sit in on the right to stay in balance.

If the rotor goes the other way (clockwise, European) then you will probably have to sit on the left when alone in order to stay balanced.

D'oh.

[Roofus]

Hi Whirly
I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits with your left hand while keeping right hand firmly on the cyclic.
'Most' helicopters hover left skid low BUT not the french ones! As such I'd poo poo that theory! (Incoming? <--- grabs hard hat & body armour!)
It also nice to be different from 'plank' pilots, who only truely love love rotary pilots when their plank has gone swimming! :D
The 'real' reason? Well if it ain't the collective I'm as keen to hear it as you Whirls!

Edited because I'm a plonker. Thanks for pointing that out by the way!!!
Edited again 'cos I'm still a plonker.

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]

[NRDK]

ROOFUS
As an ATPL(H) holder with many types under your belt, why do you fly with your 'Right' hand on the 'Collective'???

Your Quote......
"I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits while keeping right hand firmly on the collective."


Perhaps you were just tired from the strain of cack handed flying.

[Lu Zuckerman]

On the Bell 47 model the pilot sat on the right. On the 47-J series he sat in the middle. On the Sikorsky S-51 the pilot sat in the middle but on the S-55 and S-58 series the pilot sat on the right to allow him to monitor ingress and egress of the passengers and to maintain visual contact when using the hoist which was on the right side. To be different the S-51 mounted the hoist on the left side. I believe it was the same as the Bell models got bigger. Initially there was only one door and the hoist was on the right side.

[Tipstrike]

Apologies if the informnation is already out there on this one, but from my memory (distant) early helicopters had a single collective lever in the centre and two cyclics. The left seat pilot had to fly with his right hand on the collective and left hand on the cyclic. As most(?) pilots were/are predominantly right handed, it was easier and probably safer to have the captain/solo pilot in the right seat. Having flown fixed wing as well and got used to flying from the left seat with right hand on the throttles and left on the stick, I've always wondered whether it would be easy to fly this way round in the hover. Not tried it but I'm sure someneo out there has!

[Capn Notarious]

The answer is to teach pilots to be ambidextrous. And put the captain in the middle at the front. So he gets it from both sides when the s--t hits the fan.
Not disimiliar from now: dammed if you do dammed if you dont.
So who wants to be midway in the tree of managerial process. Kicked by the pax and moaned at by the boss

[telboy]

What about H500? That's Left hand drive!!

[collective bias]

I was just about to say the 500 is a LH drive. The H300 (269C) is also LHD as well as the old S55 (correct me if wrong...) On the S76 CHC Australia have the Captain on the LHS, so thats one theory out the door...
Heres a story about a H500 driver in NZ.
I read this is the crash comics a couple of years ago. He was exiting a H500 with gumboots and raincoat on. As he climbed over the collective he slipped and the raincoat caught the throttle and wound it full open. He landed on his mush and the machine took to flight. Apparently he considered jumping back in and then common sense took over and he dove behind some handy fuel drums (!)
The machine translated and wrote itself off in a nearby paddock....Sad but true.
One good reason to sit on the right.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Whirlybird]

And there I was, thinking I was asking a very simple question, with a straightforward answer that almost everyone knew except me. :confused:

[Multp]

Here's another old wive's tale.
Aeroplane standard circuit: Left Hand. F/W and Helos flying together at same airfield, easier to separate the circuits into LH for F/W and RH for helos. Therefore easier for helo pilot to fly the circuit from RH seat. Then just became a habit......

[TeeS]

If memory serves, the reason for P1 position being on the left on 'some' 500's is that you can seat three in the front row. Very uncomfortable for the centre occupant if the Captains collective is there.

[elpirata]

I was always told it was due to "convention" and that in the early flights by Igor Sikorsky that he moved his seating position to get the C of G right and that he ended up on the right hand side in the VS300 (or whatever it was called)

just my useless contribution, please ignore it !

[spinwing]

Lots of interesting responses...prob Nick Lappos would have a REAL answer...I personally think that is is just a convenient convention so as to allow the Captain of the A/C the ability to keep his hand on the cyclic at all times. As for the CHC rescue S76 in Oz the commander of the 'rescue' sits in the LH seat because the A/C command pilot is (still) sitting in the RHS seat. The Hu500 civillian version certainly seats the pilot on the LHS...however the OH6 (loach) seated the driver on the RHS... in the end I guess it really depend on the engineers who get the suckers certified! .....may the conjecture contine ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[TeeS]

If Memory serves, the 500 usually has the P1 seat on the left because it can be fitted with three seats in the front row. This can be a bit unpleasant for the occupant of the centre seat if the collective for the right hand seat is not removed first!

[TeeS]

Oops, got a call as I sent the first reply, didn't think it had gone out.

[B.Loser]

In reality, it all boils down to what the individual manufacturer felt was the best configuration for the design. The ability to turn lose of the collective is (was) an important consideration in some designs however, ignored in others (as pointed out in earlier posts). Insofar as weight and balance, again, important considerations in some designs, ignored in others and, changed by STC and or field modifications in quite a few. (i.e., it is easier to perform external load ops from the left seat - better view, not leaning away from the collective, etc. Therefore, numerous operators have converted numerous aircraft models to accomodate left seat operations for various mission requirements - BH206, BH212/ 412, BH214, AS315, 316/ 319, on and on. The 47 had several variations that flew from left seat(most G models), right seat (some OH13), center (J models) In fact, the J model pilots sat in front of the passengers all by him/ herself. Hillers were the same with three configurations. Sikorsky bounced around with theirs as well to a certain extent as did Hughes (MD). Hope this muddies the water some more.

B. Loser

[advancing_blade]

Hi Whirly

For my two cents worth, I asked an instructor some time back if I could fly from the left just to see what it was like. He rightly said that the important thing was not to get hung up on which side you flew from, as some are south paws and some aren't. The case of the 500 incidently is that in civil configuration, the captain is on the left, but in the mil' layout they don't need the third seat in the front (cos' they arent paying for it, and seat cost doesn't mean much? ) and the captain is on the right. I will wait to be corrected on that.

:)

[1S1]

CB & spinwing your both sort of right.
For SAR ops in the autohover 76's the 'rescue' commander sits in the LHS mainly due to the orientation of all the twiddly bits and the FMS which are essential to the autohover sequence and conduct of the mission. The 'rescue' commander is also the aircraft captain the pilot occupying the RHS is normally a co-pilot.

[Jed A1]

Somebody mentioned the Enstrom earlier on. This is the same as the Hughes 500 & 300 in that it can have three pax across the front.

[EESDL]

Isn't it because it gives you better vision when overtaking!!

[StevieTerrier]

Regarding the Hughes 500 : when it was being put into Civvie production, it was in competition with the B206. They wanted the same number of seats (5). As there was no room in the back for 3 people, they had to somehow put 3 in the front, and the only way that was possible was to put the P1 collective on the left hand side of the aircraft. Having said that, in the flight manual it says under typical usage "High density personnel transport (up to 7)" Now THAT I would like to see! Are we talking SWAT team here??

[Vsf]

Yep, in the Enstrom the pilot sits on the left, two pax up front, and they can all die together. What a horrible aircraft. Flies like a washing machine.

I've flown on left, right, and center (center in the Bell 47 J as someone noted). Prefer the right, since I can reach for radios with my left hand. If I'm on the left, I have to take my left hand off the collective, put it on the cyclic, (wobble, wobble) and then use my right hand on the radios. Of course, economically it is a bit discouraging since, for example, the JetRanger looks to have enough room for three total up front (a la 500 style) but you'd need to shift the pilot to the left.

[Droopstop 21]

What about the US Military (possibly others), the aircraft commander sat in the left seat in Hueys, the FNG in the right. Can anyone add to this? I always figured it put the senior pilot on the correct side to have a better view of the earth as it rushed up to meet all occupants when it suddenly became very quiet in the engine compartment! Worked really well!

Fly safe, from the old aviator (not the bold one)

[pedroalpha]

As an ex-SAR pilot flying basic Whirlwind HAR 10 (S-55) a thousand years ago, we were taught that the elementary design of early helicopters led to a hover which was left wheel low because of tail rotor roll ( which conteracts tail-rotor drift)- all this because of the direction of rotation of the main rotor on early helicopters.
To counteract this unbalance, the winch (and the single pilot), were seated on the right as opposed to the left on fixed-wing aircraft to restore a wings -level situation.
Subsequently, the world's operators have continued to feed of this situation and now common practice decides that the captain sits on the right.

Simple really.

[MightyGem]

The British Army's Army Air Corps switched over to having the Aircraft Captain in the LHS towards the end of the 80's. It worked on the theory that this let concentrate more on fighting the battle rather than flying the aircraft.

[Harry Peacock]

One which hasn't been mentioned and is not the original reason but is very valid is seaborne helos landing on a carrier deck can not land from the right side of the ship as there's some large lumps of steel in the way known as the 'island'. So landing from the left of the ship a right hand seat gives you a much better view (Try cross cockpit deck landing at night for a bit of a lark!!!)

Oh and flying right hand on collective's a real sod if you'r not doing it constantly. Just think in the hover drifting forwards normal correction right hand back ...ops the sods climbing so left hand goes down....bu??@^ it's going faster etc. etc. Tried it years ago on Gazelle, simple corrections ok, but ask me my name and it went to a ball of chalk so fast it was not funny. :eek: :D :eek:

[chopper206]

Ok...i could be wrong but the H500 for example was designed as a work horse say for slinging etc:...so the pilot could sit on the left and lean out the door and have the collective in a comfortable position...have worked with senior pilots who use the duals say in a jetranger to sit on the left. The right hand thoery i agree with, easier to operate radios etc, may also be why the army version of the h500 the PIC sits on the right, obveousley for this reason, interesting topic,

[Murphyslaw]

Just a couple of observations after a few hours in the hills
An advantage of RH seat in an American machine
...Flying an American machine from the right is nice in mountains as when you approach ridges, you can always approach obliqely from left to right, slow down, have a look to see if the ridge or saddle is passable and the next valley is a place you want to be. If its not you pull power and are immediately turning right with the Torque and out of there using the least power for the manouver( no extra pedal) and you are on the right side so can see where you are going. If the next valley looks good you can drop the pole a bit and follow the decreased torque over the ridge with minimal cyclic, therefore not limiting your view too much as you turn left. It works for me. I haven't flown a 500 but can imagine some difficulty when you get in trouble and are pulling power. You want to turn left to see where you are going and the machine wants to follow the power - right.
A disadantage of RH seat in an American machine.
...When bringing a load in to a site on a long line with the torque gauge approaching red line, you have to ease up on the pedal to stay in limits while completing the final part of the approach. This causes the airframe to rotate putting the aircraft between you and the spot you wanted to land the load, forcing you to lean out further to keep the load landing spot visual and get the load where you want it. Not really a problem at low altitude assuming you are noty overloading, but would be nice to swap seats while doing hot and high work.

[heloplt]

Lessee now...I have climbed in 500's over the collective, twiddled the knobs with both hands, fiddled with the cyclic with both hands, turned in the direction I wasn't looking, wenched in a thousand bars...errr..winched from both seats in the front, hovered over underslung loads while facing the rear in a stepped down cockpit (CH-54 Tarhe...Flying Crane to our tea drinking ex-owners), sat in the center seat on both right and wrong way turning machines,scooted over ridges with my eyes wide shut, and to the absolute best of my memory and study of many...many aircraft maintenance manuals have never seen any mention of a "Captain's Seat"! I have seen descriptions such as Pilots Seat, Right hand pilots seat...left hand pilots seat...hell...the Chinook even has a Troop Commanders Seat....but no Captain's seat. Doesn't it all boil down to sitting in the seat that has the sticks with the most buttons on it?

[Semi Rigid]

Heloplt
Hear, hear!
Great posting. Keep 'em coming.
In any case, does it really matter which seat cushion is dissappearing up ones fundamental orrifice in the course of ones duties?

'A hecktopleter is just a bunch of nuts and bolts flying in lose formation' :D

[John Eacott]

The concept of landing from the port side of the carrier was obviously never explained to Wings or Little F on Ark. Getting anything other than 6 Spot, adjacent to the oil and muck from the starboard reeves of 3 & 4 wires, was cause for a celebratory drink!

The best win I had was returning from NAS Norfolk with 120 bags of mail. When given the usual 6 Spot, ship turning nicely to put the wind out of limits, etc., we duly called "054 plus 120 sacks of mail, starboard hold"

'Twas a revelation to see the Ark find the incentive to turn back into wind, and offer "Clear land, which Spot would you like?" :D :D

[oldbeefer]

Nice modern MD 600 I flew the other day had P1 in the left. MD 900 had him in the right - I give up!

[ILS27R]

Why is it that in most helicopters the commander sits in the right hand seat? Is there any reason to make it different to fixed wing aeroplanes? Or is it just the fact that you guys like to be different? :)

Cheers,

ILS27R.

[the coyote]

Why do fixed wing commanders sit in the left hand seat?

[Grainger]

Hey ILS - it's just our little bit of anarchy ;)

And now for the serious answer....

On a lot of machines rigging to offset tail rotor drift makes the heli hover slightly left skid low with an even load. Hence it makes sense to have the P1 seat on the right so it'll hover level one up.

Anyway, Enstroms have the P1 seat on the left ...

[Skycop9]

By sitting on the right side of the helicopter the pilot can apply slight friction to the collective to keep it at its power setting and then use his left hand to change radios, etc. With aircraft that have three seats in the front the pilot sits in the left seat so that the collective can be taken out of the middle of the aircraft to make room for the center seat passenger.


:)

[Lu Zuckerman]

This doesn’t apply to all helicopters because as previously stated in this and other threads not all helicopters have the pilots on the right for what ever reason. However, with the advent of the larger helicopters such as the S-55 series, the S-58 series and others in the Sikorsky line the pilot sat on the right because the main entry to the helicopter and the hoist were on the right hand side providing the pilot with a view to what was going on. IMHO

In a helicopter of that size the positioning of the pilot would have minimal effect on the lateral CG
or, on the propeller effect of the tail rotor.

[Grainger]

Hey Lu:

Just try it in an R22 ! ;)

[RW-1]

Some like to say that since we like to avoid the flow of fixed wing (plank) traffic,
and most traffic is left handed patterns (circuits for my UK bro's/sisters)
that having us on the right side makes it easier to see-and-avoid.

Of course I'm interested in your answer to Coyote's response :D

We don't like to be different, we are different hehehe ....

[heedm]

Lu,

I thought the hoist was on the right because that's where the pilot sits.



Chicken....Egg...Chicken...Egg.....etc. :)

[widgeon]

isn't it something to do with having his sword hand free so he can repel boarders ??

[MightyGem]

Grainger, your theory in your first post doesn't hold up when applied to French designed aircraft. Their rotors go the opposite way so they sit right skid low.

I tend to go for the theory that we sit on the right so we can operate radios etc with the left hand. This is easier than sitting on the left and having to swap hands on the cyclic and fly with the left hand, which in helicopters without stabilisation is not easy, and certainly not very ergonomic.
:p

[Hone22]

Personally I prefer the H300 & H500 types with the PIC on the LHS.

It means as I cruise the neighbourhood I can keep the cyclic in hand while hanging my arm out the window:D :D

Once a lad................


cheers & flysafe
Hone

[widgeon]

Also heard that long lining is easier from the LH seat with a bubble door , of course if you have really long arms it is OK in the RH seat also.

[Whirlybird]

I remember posting this same question some months ago. Someone at that time said that when helicopters first came along, the first people to fly them were f/w pilots, so they sat in the left seat and their students sat on the right. So the first large group of heli pilots got used to sitting on the right, and carried on. People also mentioned not having to climb over the collective when you got in, and a whole host of other reasons, including the fact that some helis are flown from the left or the middle. Seems like the real reason, if there is one, is lost in the history of helicopter flying.

[A-V-8R]

When I went thru Rotary Wing Qualification Course in the US Army in 1973, I ask the same question and was told;

From the cocpit seat the rotor blade swings from right to left....you can see if the area is clear before you start to spool up the rotors.

Best explanation I'd heard of....But then again, not all helicopter rotors turn the same direction....

[Grainger]

.... and most helicopters have at least one other blade poking out the other side !!!!!!

[CyclicRick]

Helicopters, cars etc.... right hand drive, it's the only way.
Look at the fast jet jockeys their little beasts are all laid out for right hand on the stick and left hand on the throttle where they should be.

The moral is: all half way decent vehicles HAVE to be right hand drive. Anything else is heracy.

But even more seriously, it's all about ergonomics. Left hand drive helicopters are simpy a pain, try changing frequency from tower to ground just as they put you in a hover on a hot day with a load of pax with only one radio with no pre-select and you will know why!

[rollie rotors]

Pax questioned my right seat position in the R22. I've heard numerous explanations from my colleages.

1. That's the seat I trained from. Subsequently became a habit.

2. On counterclockwise helicopters, obvious choice of turn to the left, using less pedal than right turn. Right seat position good place to clear the tail.

Interested to know what type you fly? Your PIC seat position and why?

[Flingingwings]

Always believed that on an R22 it was to do with CoG in relation to fuel.

Think you'll find that as the main fuel tank is located on the left hand side that pilot and fuel weight would cause CoG problems and insufficient cyclic control movement to maintain any sort of hover. Figured that was also why the PoH specifies a minimum pilot weight as well as maximum seat and baggage weights.

Presume similar reasons for the R44 and 206. All naturally hover left skid low so better distribution of weight must help. However willing to be enlightened by those more in the know.

[Whirlygig]

Schweizer 300 has PiC seat on the left and therefore, with me in command, hangs very left skid low :{

Something to do with Hughes saying "Only poofs and perverts sit on the right"

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Pete O'Tewbe]

EC120 is certified to be flown from either seat.

[Robbo Jock]

I thought the right seat was 'the' PIC seat for historical reasons - my own theory is that it allows the Pilot to use his/ser left hand to operate the avionics etc.

If the command seat is on the right, the heli will be designed with other stuff on the left (fuel tank in R22 etc) to try and balance it out, rather than designing the helicopter and then choosing the single pilot seating position by whichever side's the lighter.

Aircraft with three front seats will tend to have the command seat on the left 'cos the central passenger does not necessarily want the Pilot's hand wandering up and down between their legs. ;)

My tuppence ha'penny.

[fflyboy101]

Whirly

Is it the 300C which is left seat and right seat for 300CB.

I was told right seat because early helicopters only had one collective and with it been used by left hand it made more sense to have it in the helicopter rather than nearly hanging out. That's what I was told anyway.:ugh:

[pa42]

Right, left, center--there's no reason for choices, any more than for CCW vs CW rotation main rotor.

Similarly for f/w; for the general aviation fleet, the FAA does not designate one side or the other as PIC or SIC, rather the left-right is resolved by the LOCATION of the individual designated as PIC, he can sit either side.

R22's, particularly, have a placard saying Right Seat Solo: the factory has made the decision for us, going beyond FAA policy but, since they put that placard up, the FAA subsequently backs it as mandatory. (DUMB placard--all that's needed really is intelligent use of W&B to place ballast right seat--maybe 80#--sufficient to offset L main tank, pilot light-or-heavy then would be OK in left seat solo. Then we'd have more operational flexibility for special missions. Except for the placard, requiring an act of congress to fly left seat solo.)

Why so many helicopters right seat command? Rumor I had heard (no substantiation available) was the the FIRST surviving heli pilot flew from left, like f/w, and was unwilling to take the risk of switching to the right to check out his fellow pilots. So all subsequent pilots learned to fly from right side, and here we are. This is so glibly plausible as to seem silly; does anybody know?

[Gomer Pylot]

Many helicopters with dual controls are limited to being flown from the right seat single-pilot because...... well, just because. The controls, switches, and knobs that may require manipulation sometimes can only be reached from the right seat, because the manufacturer put them there. The right seat has become traditional for various reasons, some of which make sense. If you're in the left seat, and you need to tune a radio, do something with the GPS, or do anything else with switches, controls, etc, then you have to change your hands so that you control the cyclic with your left hand while you do what needs doing with your right hand. If an emergency, such as an engine failure occurs while you're doing this, then you have to do a lot of switching to take care of it, and in some models a second can become a lifetime. From the right seat, it's a relatively simple matter to just hit the collective with the left hand and go into autorotation, with little loss of time.

The story goes that the first Sikorsky(??) model with two pilot seats had only one collective, in the middle, and flying from the right was preferable to the pilots, who were right-handed. I won't swear to the truth of that, though, because I wasn't there.

[Whirlybird]

I asked this same question a couple of years ago on here, thinking it was probably a silly question and that everyone except me knew the answer!!! The thread then ran for several pages. You might still find it if you do a search. Anyway, the concensus seemed to be, much as on this one, that it was mainly a historical thing.

[Sailor Vee]

I'm with Gomer on this one. I'd heard about there being only one collective in the centre, but on a Bell model, Sikorsky's early models were only one seat in the centre of a thin fuselage.:\

[The Nr Fairy]

The Sycamore in the Museum of Army Flying at Middle Wallop has a centre-mounted collective.

[DualDriver]

I sit in the left seat ALL the time and I'M the commander of the aircraft. Instructor.

[rollie rotors]

Gomer Pylot, was not aware the left / right handed dominance was an issue in cyclic control. I'm left handed, control the R 22 cyclic with right hand. I remember bringing up the issue with my instructor prior to beginning the commercial course. The old adage "if in doubt mumble" well it worked. Never thought about it again.

[Gomer Pylot]

Dominant handedness isn't really that much of an issue except for the historical reasons. Plank drivers, flying from the left seat, use their left hands on the wheel. The real issue is that the cockpit in a helicopter is set up in such a way that it's really impractical to fly with the left hand on the cyclic most of the time. The collective is on the left, and the orientation of the cyclic head is such that it's just not that easy to do it left-handed.

Dominant handedness isn\'t really that much of an issue except for the historical reasons. Plank drivers, flying from the left seat, use their left hands on the wheel. The real issue is that the cockpit in a helicopter is set up in such a way that it\'s really impractical to fly with the left hand on the cyclic most of the time. The collective is on the left, and the orientation of the cyclic head is such that it\'s just not that easy to do it left-handed.

BTW, I sit on the left side at least half the time, and I\'m almost always the PIC. Sometimes I just fill in as a cojo with a more senior captain. Our normal practice is to alternate seats on alternate days, so the captain may be on either side.

[Flingwing207]

We have a left-PIC 300CB and a right-PIC 300CBi. You can get the 300s however you want them.

I spend about the same amount of time in each seat - I like the right because you can clear the tail, I like the left because the collective is closer to the seat and ergonemetrically more comfortable.

Other than that, left, right, whatever, it's all good!

[Gaseous]

Enstrom is usually flown from the left, however it can legitimately be flown solo from the right - exept there is no starter button on the right. I have done both and it makes absolutely no detectable difference to the way it flies, apart from it flies right skid low when P1 on the right. The mast on an Enstrom leans to the left which apparently counters the C of G thing to make it hover level when lard arse is on the left. It seem to work.

As has been said before, no centre lever with 2 pax so P1 must be on left. A bit of a no brainer really.

Someone said about hovering an R22 whilst fiddling with the radio. I vividly remember my instructor demonstrating what happens when the pax leans on the lever to get comfortable whilst doing this. Believe me, its safer to land first!

[Lu Zuckerman]

Unless it has already been mentioned here is the reason for flying from the right seat. Since the days of the S-55 (H-19), H-34 and the likes the passengers entered and exited from the right hand side of the helicopter and, the hoist was also installed on the right hand side which gave the pilot clear view of what was happening relative to ingress and egress and what was happening relative to the hoisting operation. Placement of the hoist cable gave advent to vertical reference.

Even on early small helicopters (B-47) the Pilot flew the helicopter from the right hand seat. On the S-51 which is also equipped with a hoist mounted on the left side of the helicopter the pilot occupied a centerline seat. The same was true for the B-47 J2 Ranger.

Who’s to say which is the correct position? As they say, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

:E :E

[Nealcon]

EC120, certified for both left or right! 300 and 500's are left-hand seat, makes slingloading easier i was told...

[Hueymeister]

The UH-1D is a very different beast to fly from the left....there's only half the instrument panel, and you sit 6 inches lower in the hover.

[Bomber ARIS]

Lu,

I thought that the Bell 47 was certified to be flown from the left seat.

As the first properly certified helicopter, I was led to believe that this was just a case of following what happened in the fixed wing world and allocating the captain the left seat. Only after some time did common sense prevail and the majority of subsequent helicopters defaulted us drivers to the right.

I await my re-education:8

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: Bomber ARIS

I thought that the Bell 47 was certified to be flown from the left seat.

This may well be true. However, the USCG flew their HTL-1s from the right hand seat.

:E :E

[chopperpilot47]

There is no requirement to fly from any particular seat in the Bell 47. PIC tends to fly in the left seat because the starter is that side but other than that the controls are the same. The instructor sits on the right but there is no legal requirement to do so, in fact we often swap over depending on what we happen to be doing at the time.

Regards,

Chopperpilot47

[boffo]

So, then. Do we yet have a consensus on the following:
If a helicopter is specified by the makers to be only flown solo from the right seat (e.g. R22) - for whatever reason, is there anything to prevent a pilot from legally taking the left seat when he/she flies with a passenger?
If so, would there be anything to stop an instructor flying left seat with a passenger - e.g. when a flight cannot be a training flight because it doesn't start/end at a licensed aerodrome?

[Jucky]

Why do helicopter pilots generally sit in the right seat when fixed wing pilots sit in the left?

[helicopter-redeye]

Because fixed wing pilots do not have tail rotors

:8

[XT244]

"generally sit in the right seat"

Jucky, you are sure? ;)

http://www.ils-online.ch/cgi-bin/album/data/media/44/smallDSC_1506.JPG

[zeeoo]

Maybe the place you must seat in depends in the rotor spin direction..to counter the rolling torque due to adv blade.. ?

[Warren Buffett]

Easier to reach over with left hand to center console to change transponder codes, radio frequencies, change CD's, etc whilst RH is flying cyclic?

FW easier to fly so pilot sits on LHS, traditional to auto's (except in UK, NZ, Australia).

[Aesir]

From ancient times vessels were steered from the right hand side, for some reason the fixed wing people have got it all wrong.

WHY THE RIGHT SIDE OF A BOAT IS CALLED THE STARBOARD SIDE

Viking ships were steered with an oar-like rudder called a styri, attached to the right-hand side of the ship near the stern. The Vikings called this side of the ship stjornbordi. Today the right-hand side of any boat is known as the starboard side.

Actually "Stjornbordi" means in Icelandic "the side you steer from". For those that do not know, the Icelandic language is stiill very much the same language that was spoken by Norsemen (Nordic people! Not to be confused with Norwegians) around and before year 1000.

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

XT244, please ride with an instructor (soon!) and have him demonstrate a proper 3' hover. It's about waist-height on an average man and should be used whenever ground obstructions do not prevent it (e.g. airports, etc). That's such a proud old square-gear 47, I'd hate to see it turn into a curved-gear model the hard way.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I seem to recall reading once that the first few pilots to fly 2-seat rotary aircraft were all experienced FW pilots used to sitting on the left - so they did. They then checked out the next generation, but hadn't really got the hang of flying helicopters yet so stayed in the left seat where they were happy.

So, the second (and rather larger) generation of helicopter pilots were taught to fly in the right hand seat, and the habit stuck.

This could of-course be complete urban myth - I've no idea, I wasn't there.

G

[GLSNightPilot]

There must be a dozen or so threads on this subject in the archives. It comes up every few months. The 'search' link is at the top of the page.

[Heliport]

Link to a merged thread
here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50499)

[Hughes500]

Only time I sit in the left hand seat is when i have actually to fly a 300 or 500 normally - sit in the right and let student fly. Then again when loadlifting in 500 easier to stick your head out and see from left seat than it would be a right seat machine. Then again I regularly fly an SA341 so I am in the right seat - but then I have to use a different power pedal !

[Curtis E Carr]

The EC120 is certified to be flown from either seat by day but the right seat by night.

[chopperpilot47]

This has been dealt with lots of times. I spoke to the Bell representative the last time this came up and he said there is no reason why one should fly from one side or the other apart from where they choose to site the starter and useful switches. There is no aerodynamic reason, the c of g has nothing to do with it and the direction the rotor turns makes no difference. In other words the manufacturer decides where they want the pilot to sit and puts the starter and switches that side.

Instructors sit the other side to the student who sits in the P1 position. The student starts the machine but after that it makes no practical difference where anyone sits.

Regards,

Chopperpilot47

[Martin1234]

When conducting sling-load and sitting on the "right" side, depending of the clockwise/anti-clockwise MR, will give you a better view while hovering and looking down.

[SASless]

Let's really confuse this....how about the Hiller, Bell, and early Sikorsky models that you fly from the center seat? Despite being in the center seat....the collective was still in the left hand....I think the better question is why is the collective on the left hand side and the cyclic stick between yer knees (except for some really unique machines) ?;)

[FlyAnotherDay]

The EC120 is certified to be flown from either seat by day but the right seat by night.
Hmmm... Why right by night?

[Billywizz]

'Why EC120 on right at night?'

All the primary flight instruments are all on the right with GPS etc on the left side of the console so it is easier to to be on the right with instruments directly in front of you.

[FlyAnotherDay]

BillyWhizz

Hmmm... OK, so the philosphy applied is (as has been said before) that you need to be an instrument flyer by night. Makes sense. Thanks.

[Curtis E Carr]

Fly Another Day

It could be that the right hand seat night restriction applies to our machine as we have the Sandel HSI fitted. Whilst this is an excellent piece of kit, it is difficult to read if you are not sitting directly in front of it.

[XT244]

Of course, a Bell47 was flown from the left.

Now I have checkout the Flight Manual again. All I have found is this:

FLIGHT MANUAL
Helicopter Agusta-Bell AB47G-3B-1
Issue dated 8.1.1964 on Page 1-8

„Basis configuration of the helicopter permits his use as a three place aircraft limited to VFR day and night operating conditions“

Nothing about right or left. „three place“ thats all .........
Remember, this manual was printet 1964.
Maybe, it was a other time. :confused:

[the coyote]

Re fixed wing, I always thought PIC was left seat because a standard circuit is left hand. Or did the left circuit come because of the left seat?

[Lightning_Boy]

Thinking about standard circuits and departures are left hand, why is it that standard holding patterns are right hand?

[offshoreigor]

Martin1234,

Whether your blades turn one way or the other, the collective is always on your left, therefor it is easiar to sling from the left seat. This is most prevelant in the S-61 where slinging (Long-Line) from the right seat is virtually impossible due to the distance from seat to window. Even in a 205, the prefered seat for slinging is the Left seat.

The real reason we have the Right Seat designated as the command seat is because, we as Rotary Wing pilots, are very stubborn and want to be different from Plank drivers!

:ok: OffshoreIgor :ok:

[rhmaddever]

Which side should a helicopter pilot sit on... bear with me :

I am training on R22s and sit on the right, many films have the pilots on the left (is this because the real pilot is on the right and actor on the left?),

or is it just the same as U.S. and U.K. cars?

Any Ideas

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

depends on the certification - Early H300c's, you sit on the left, the 300Cbi, you're on the right ! Strange, but true !

[VeeAny]

TFS

Unless of course you have the 3 seat conversion for the CBi, pilot back on the left again.

V.

[Disguise Delimit]

Three seats across the front, pilot sits on left (no room for collective otherwise).

Generally the pilot needs to keep hold of the cyclic, and can let go of the collective to change radio freqs or scratch b@lls. Having to change hands when in the left seat can be confusing - was I changing frequencies, or having a scratch?

Movies - don't believe them, they always have the Huey sound for rotor noise and a C20 for an engine, no matter what machine is in shot.:ugh:

[chopski]

Thought it was a C of G issue in the 22 with the tanks being of different capacities

[Bravo73]

Chopski,

My understanding of the R22 is that 'it is, sort of'. Without trying to put words into Frank's mind, the pilot was placed on the RHS first in the initial design. (Simpler mechanics for collective down the centre of the a/c, left hand available for radios etc). The main tank was then placed on the left for balance.

(The aux tank was only an afterthought - ie not included in the original design - and so had to be put on the right).

But like I said, I'm not Frank, have never spoken to him about it, have not even met him, so I could be wrong. It makes sense to me though.


Regards,

B73

[rhmaddever]

What chopski said makes sense - perhaps it is the same for most smaller heli's,

Just quickly back to what "Disguise Delimit" said about the Movies is so true,

The best exapmle I ever saw was on the film GOLDENEYE - James bond - This black R22 comes out of a train and noise is some huge jet engine? And then when it lifts off - its a piston engine again...!

Plus I never saw the pilot check the essentials! LoL!

RHM

[2beers]

Ok, here comes a semi-educated guess, but I do think I've heard it somewhere...

The command seat is on the right in helicopters out of old habit (large helicopters) and ease of construction (SP helicopters). With the pilot to the right the mechanics involved to get his inputs to the rotor are shorter and simpler which also equals less weight. You save a few feet of push-rods and might use the space for something else. But since most helicopters today have the option of dual controls, it's back to the old habit reason. And not to forget: Plank-drivers have the command-seat to the left so helicopters must be different (also old habit). ;)
Another way that helicopters are different is in that the pilot-seats are sometimes comfy in airplanes, but that's another thread...

/2beers

[Gaseous]

Enstrom P1 on the left as the centre collective is removable to provide the middle seat. Can be flown P1 from the right but the start button is a long, long way away on the end of the left collective lever. With Enstrom lateral weight & balance is irrelevant. Its just down to practical limitations.

The pilot has to let go of the collective and hold the cyclic with the left hand while operating radio, mixture, etc with the right. Not a problem though. If the engine stops whilst messing with the mixture, the juggling to try an in flight restart is awesome. I know. it happened to me.:ooh:

[ConwayB]

Hi there.
Great responses guys. Here's a little trivia for you...

In Australian Army twin engined helos, the captain of the aircraft usually sits on the left and the co-pilot on the right. Why?
Because any monkey can fly a helicopter (after he/she's been trained) but actually doing all the navigating, radio calls on up to 5 radios, maintaining situational awareness of the battlespace, leading a formation, staying away from people and things that can shoot you and all the other factors involved in military flying, make a captain's job more demanding that just poling an aircraft. So the captain of the aircraft who 'administers' the mission, sits in the left... and the co-pilot, who does the bulk of the flying, sits in the seat that's been designed as the primary FLYING PILOT position, ie the Right seat. That's not why it was designed that way, (the explanation for why the pilot sits on the RHS seems totally logical to me after reading the thread), but that's the way it's evolved.

An urban myth (who knows if it's true or not) has it that some of the earlier pilots were drawn from cavalry who mount their steeds from the left, therefore they would enter their aircraft from the left and subsequently, aircraft were designed to be entered from the left. Side-by-side seating in later aircraft, carried this tradition on. Nice story.

Good luck with the flying.
CB

[Billywizz]

Eurocopter came up with a solution....EC120, Fly it from either right or left seat, then you only have to argue about where the Captain wants to sit.

[Pat Malone]

Even with one POB (sitting in the right seat) the R22 hangs left-skid-low to counter tail rotor drift. Don't ever try soloing an R22 from the left seat. You'll quickly run out of lateral cyclic, roll over, crash, burn etc.

[pilotwolf]

Don't ever try soloing an R22 from the left seat. You'll quickly run out of lateral cyclic, roll over, crash, burn etc

If you ever get the chance ask Tim Tucker, (one of the original test pilots and buyer of the first production R22, safety course instructor, FAA examiner, etc!!!) about solo from the left seat of the R22 - one of his many funny anedotes.

PW

[Flashover999]

Having done my PPL, CPL and CFI check rides with Tim Tucker I had heard the stories of his Left Seat solo of the R22. Was aware that he would conduct the CFI examination and when back on the ground he would always ask the CFI examinee to reposition the Heli and shut down. When the pilot didnt start a shut down so he could change seats that would be the moment when a borderline pass became a fail. Not sure if it would be so much of a problem with aux tank loaded and a light pilot but still a point to remember when instructing and changing students.

[bellfest]

I was tod that the US the military came up with the idea of moving to the right hand seat so the flying pilot didn't have to crawl over the collective when getting in and out

[L'WAAPAM]

Guy's and Gal's,Guy's and Gal's,

Eh Eh Eh, Surely (and dont call me Shirley!!!) the reason is, because that it is the way the manufacturer intended them to fly the A/C when launched.

However.......Subsequent mod's and upgrades, whether changes to airframe or drive train, would not have changed this if it were not for legestalistic(legal)(Spelling(Help)) changes/reasons.

At the end of the day if the A/C is to be flown with both seats occupied then the Capt will, most likeley sit on the left, however if it is a single pilot A/C (ie Bell 212) then the Capt will Probably sit on the Right.

The simple reason is controllability(ergonomics...for those with degrees!!)

Cheers

L'

[chopperpilot47]

This thread has been done before. Some manufacturers simply position the switches and starter on one side in preference to the other. There is no aerodynamic reason for it, someone decided that was the way it would be. On the Bell 47 for example you can fly either side, there is no prefererence mentioned in the POH. The starter is on the left however.

Chopperpilot 47

[Lowlevldevl]

About 15 years ago, when I was a fairly 'rough' mustering pilot, I was doing some time in the left seat of an R-22 with a newly endorsed mustering newbie. Things got a bit out of control on the ground and I could see we were going to lose the mob if we didn't get 'stuck- in'. Landing quickly I told the other guy to get out (to improve performance). Not having really studied the POH, (helicopters had little more status than trail-bikes for a lot of us back then) I launched without swapping seats and spent the next 45 minutes or so getting the mob back on track.
I didn't notice that the Robbie was particularly difficult to fly in that configuration. Yeah it probably flew a little more left skid low, but not enough to scare me.
Still, once it was pointed out to me that solo from the LH seat is against the rules, I didn't do it again.

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

chopperpilot47:On the Bell 47 for example you can fly either side, there is no prefererence mentioned in the POH. The starter is on the left however. Not always. I've flown 47's that had the starter button up on the panel next to the mags. Early ones without a starter relay had a cable-actuated solenoid attached to that little lever on the floor at the base of the left seat that you had to press with the heel of your boot. Great fun when the cable would stretch.

The issue with the 47 is that the fuel valve is just above the left-side collective stick, and it would be very hard to access if you had to in a hurry. That, plus the fact that the cyclic and throttle frictions are on the left sticks tells me which side Bell preferred us to sit on, whether they thought we'd be dumb enough to disagree with them or not.

[DogsBolx]

Why do helicopter pilots sit on the right? (and its not the first line of a joke!)
Ta
Dogs

[petitfromage]

Not all do the Bell 47 for example was designed to be flown from the left, and especially in long line lifting, sitting in the left is preferable as you can lean out more easily to see the underslung load........but, in general:

The collective is in the left hand the cyclic in the right. The collective requires less attention during most phases of flight, whereas the cyclic requires almost constant attention.
The collective because of the balance of forces on the rotor disc should remain where you left it, if you let it go, whereas the cyclic in older helos especially will often just full over!

So, now you want to switch radio frequency or adjust the QNH etc, which hand would you prefer to use? The left!

Bear in mind that many helos have simply one centre console for instruments & radios and that larger more modern/complex helos often have a centre pedestal between the pilots.

Thus the right hand seat is most prefered (but not always most useful!)

Why do fixed wing pilots sit on the left?

[Erebus]

Collision avoidance rules say that in the event of a conflict, each aircraft shall alter heading to the right. Thus, a pilot sitting on the left side of the cockpit will have a better view of proceedings than one on the right.

[issi noho]

would i be right in thinking most helis hover left skid low? would a pilot on the right help with balance? I know it sounds daft but..

[Oogle]

I don't believe there is any real reason for placing the PIC on the right or left. The manufacturers decide on that.

would i be right in thinking most helis hover left skid low?

The "American" (for want of a better description) helicopters hover left skid low whereas the "European" helicopters hover right skid low. It has to do with which direction the main rotors turn.

[ShyTorque]

As we've discussed this at length many times before, try a search..... ;)

[Gordy]

would i be right in thinking most helis hover left skid low? would a pilot on the right help with balance? I know it sounds daft but..


You never flew an Astar huh!!!!!

[Culpa T]

I am sure this has been asked in the past so apologies for the basic question.
Why does the P1 operate from the RH seat in a helicopter and the LH seat in fixed wing?

[Hangar3]

Not true of all helicopters.
Can depend in which way round the Main Rotor blades are travelling. Tail rotor - Main Rotor Thrust coupling in a anti-clockwise direction of the main rotor, when viewed from above, will give a left skid low position, so putting the pilot (on their own) in the left seat would mean the Lateral Centre of gravity who exceed limits. By putting the solo pilot on the Right seat you even up the Lateral C of G.
H3:ok:

[SASless]

One pilot solo can correct for CG issues? Is that not a gross oversimplification?

Compare an R-22 to a Chinook...and yes...one can fly a Chinook Solo (physically not legally).

What effect does a single pilot have on lateral CG of a Chinook? Being tandem rotor...the rotors turn both directions as well.

Better yet....Bell 205's routinely are flown solo from either seat...how does that square with your theory?

[Hangar3]

SASless - I agree with your point. But with a question regarding seat position I assumed R22 / R44 or similar sized helicopter.

What is your view on the answer?

[brett s]

Single pilot I prefer right seat, it's easier to deal with the radios & such since you don't have to switch hands on the cyclic. You also don't have to climb over the collective when getting in :)


There are several types that normally have left seat PIC (and a bunch that can be flown from either) - Bell 47's, S300C's, MD369 series. Some cases so they can squeeze in another seat up front, others just because they felt like it. Then there's the Hiller 12 series, with the pilot's seat in the middle...

[rotornut]

...will give a left skid low position...
Absolutely true in a 300 which you fly from the left seat as previously mentioned. When I did my first solo in one I was slightly freaked out by having the left skid so low in the hover.

[aeromys]

So that the Pilot doesn't scratch his Breitling on the door when operating the collective.

[wlynx]

I've always been told that the reason most helicopters are flown from the right seat is that helicopter's are inherently unstable in pitch and roll. so flying from the right allows you to keep hold of the floppy cyclic while you release the collective momentarily to carry out other duties, ie radios etc. Flying from the left seat means there is a need to release the left hand from the collective to cover the cyclic, whilst you use the right to operate radio's etc. tricky especially if you are right handed.

This is a very simplistic argument, as for the weight and balance argument, clockwise / anticlockwise that may be an issue for some small helicopters, but take the army lynx and Gazelle as an example, one has a clockwise rotor, one has an anticlockwise rotor, Both are flown from the right seat.

[Hilico]

Rotornut, I seem to remember that in the latest version of the 300, solo pilots sit on the right. Stand to be corrected, of course, but I'm sure that's what the salesman said last time I was at North Weald for Aerofair.

[GLSNightPilot]

Breitling? What's that? :}

I use a Timex - it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Plus, it's cheap, which is a necessary characteristic for a helicopter pilot's equipment.

[800]

In some of the smaller aircraft such as the H300, R22 & R44, have a look at how wide the cabin is and where the "main" fuel tank is located.
This may sometimes dictate in which position the P1 is seated as this will have an effect on lateral C of G.
As far as the LH or RH seat is concerned while changing radios, think of the left handed pilot who has to fly right hand on the cyclic all the time and not only all you RH handed pilots.
As far as the collective is concerned, you could always use the mark 1 collective friction (ie your knee). Pilots have been using this device for eons!
800:)

[aeromys]

Slightly off topic, but which cab has P1 and P2 sitting farthest apart?
I'm thinking of the Blackhawk where you have to throw a stick across the cockpit to get each other's attention?

[Flingwing207]

Rotornut, I seem to remember that in the latest version of the 300, solo pilots sit on the right. Stand to be corrected, of course, but I'm sure that's what the salesman said last time I was at North Weald for Aerofair.That's in the USA - in the UK the pilot sits on the left, as is proper...

OK, actually you can get the 300CBi in either flavour, right or left PIC. Not sure about the 300C.

[DTibbals53]

Here is a response to the question that I have not seen in the thread, though it may be as wrong as any other postulation.

When landing on a Helicopter Carrier (as in LPH/LHA) the aircraft approaches from the port (left) side on a 45 degree angle. The PIC has the best view of the deck and superstructure.

Although I think the translating tendancy is the real reason, the above was proposed in a discussion of this subject in the 80s.

:E

[krypton_john]

I thought the 300CBi was left PIC only in 3 seat config?

[SilsoeSid]

Have to go with the idea that I sit on the right because that's where the controls are!

[Dan Reno]

All US military helos will have the pilot in the RH seat for Navy shipboard landing purposes. Apparently this is writen into the milspec.

As far as civilian aircraft go, I guess you're all right.

[Heli-Ice]

I think its a part of a plot amongst helicopter manufacturer's chief engineers.

They made helicopters this way to keep us dumbasses that fly them, busy thinking excactly about why the h*** we fly out of this seat and not the other one.

[SASless]

Aeromys,

You should sit in the Sikorsky CH-37 Mojave (Moe Jay Vee).....now that was a commodious cockpit! Makes a Blackhawk look like the inside of a Mini!

[helonorth]

I assume it's been said before: because that's the side the controls are on?That's why I do it anyway.

[Um... lifting...]

Because I can't see worth a d*mn from the back...

[Jofm5]

I would like to know why I as treatead such a c#unt for asking the same question.

[Senior Pilot]

I would like to know why I as treatead such a (fool) for asking the same question.

What a strange response. You obviously didn't bother to search for this thread, so I closed your query with a link to this one with 7 years worth of replies.


:confused: :hmm: :rolleyes:

[Whirlygig]

I think jofm's missing letter is "o" and he is really pleased for being treated like nobility by having a mod point him in the direction of a thread with a plethora of replies.

That's right, isn't it jofm? 'Cos otherwise, your response comes across as very rude and you're not like that, are you? :)

Cheers

Whirls

[Heli-Ice]

I am sensing more friendly vibes here than before.

Whirlygig, you have a good eye for things ;)

[helonorth]

Somebody did give him a pretty smart a** response. Remember?

[CHINENG]

My understanding is that the PIC always sits on the side of the advancing blade. Of course there may well be configurations which discount this explanation.

[Whirlygig]

Unless you're French.

Cheers

Whirls

[egnxer]

Hope you fellas will bear with me as I'm not an aviator - purely an aviation enthusiast. I've often wondered why in a (commercial) fixed wing a/c the PIC always has the LH seat whereas in a helo the opposite is true. Is there any particular reason? Is it historical? Traditional? Any ideas?

MTIA

[rotornut]

Except in the Hughes/Schweizer 300 series and I believe MD 500 as well where the PIC is in the left seat.

[spinwing]

Mmm ...

This has been covered in the past try using the search function ....


:E


BTW the 'original' Hu 369 .... the Military OH6, the pilot in fact sat on the RHS of the cockpit .. when the Hu 369 series 'The 500' was put into commercial production Hughes put the pilot on the LHS so as to allow for a third seat in the front of the a/c.

[Bravo73]

Mmm ...

This has been covered in the past try using the search function ....


:E


Very recently, actually:

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/421222-why-britain-you-have-right-wheel-cars-but-captain-sits-left-post5812941.html#post5812941

[egnxer]

Very recently, actually:

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4212...ml#post5812941 (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/421222-why-britain-you-have-right-wheel-cars-but-captain-sits-left-post5812941.html#post5812941)Ah! Thanks for the replies and for not flaming me. All is now revealed ;)

[OLLY HOLBROOK]

You may have explained this before, if so I missed it, and apologise, but why do helicopter jockeys, and co- jockeys , sit in the opposite seats to fixed wings.I can understand it on a Belvedere cos that gives the boss the slidey door on the way out
if (when) things go wrong.

[Gordy]

Tis because we are "bigger" than airplane pilots and therefore "dress" to the right.... (sorry, could not resist...)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/funnies/38bd6a41.jpg

[vfr440]

Hi Olly
Eng here NOT pilot, so more than ready to accept correction. My understanding is that in (most) helicopters the accepted best position is P1 on the RHS, so that ccollective operation is never restricted by interference with the door. One's hand that is. The Hughes 500 is the exception to this convention, as indeed the Hiller 12 E was. (On the centreline of the aircraft - good for crop work so I was told)

However there may well be more informed comment from those who know MUCH more than I do!! - VFR

[FLY 7]

They don't - necessarily.

Helicopter pic seat can be on the l/h/s or the r/h/s depending on the specific model.

[Rotorwashed]

also, sitting on the right allows for better access to the panel with your left hand, while your right is controlling the cyclic.

for this reason, I truly dont understand why any helicopters would be left seat pic, as this would only make it more difficult to change freqs and altimeter settings with your left hand.

[Whirlygig]

as this would only make it more difficult to change freqs and altimeter settings with your left hand.No, you change frequencies with your right hand if you are sitting left seat PIC and either hold the cyclic with your left hand or your knees.

Cheers

Whirls

[ShyTorque]

either hold the cyclic with your left hand

Be careful in the hover if doing this. :cool:

[Whirlygig]

ShyT, I can't hover and change frequencies with either hand from any seat - I need a co-pilot for that. :p Or I put it down, change, and lift again. Or tell ATC I cannot comply just yet. :)

Cheers

Whirls

[Gordy]

Rotorwash:

also, sitting on the right allows for better access to the panel with your left hand, while your right is controlling the cyclic.

for this reason, I truly dont understand why any helicopters would be left seat pic, as this would only make it more difficult to change freqs and altimeter settings with your left hand.

I am guessing you do not work in the utility field. It is easier to hang out the left door and look straight down than the right. In our Huey and 212 we have the paperwork to fly from the left. There is even an STC for the 206 series to allow you to fly from the left seat.

As for the radios, mine are wired to the cooley hats on the cyclic to allow me to cycle through all the pre-programmed frequencies. What is an altimeter--most if not all utility operations are conducted low level and no need for one.

Aside form all the above, I am able to remove my hand form the cyclic and collective for at least 5 seconds before there is any creep, tis all about having it track & balanced correctly.

[ShyTorque]

Or I put it down, change, and lift again. Or tell ATC I cannot comply just yet.


Safest way!

(LHR at night can be fun when single pilot).

[Rotorwashed]

I am guessing you do not work in the utility field. It is easier to hang out the left door and look straight down than the right. In our Huey and 212 we have the paperwork to fly from the left. There is even an STC for the 206 series to allow you to fly from the left seat.

As for the radios, mine are wired to the cooley hats on the cyclic to allow me to cycle through all the pre-programmed frequencies. What is an altimeter--most if not all utility operations are conducted low level and no need for one.

Aside form all the above, I am able to remove my hand form the cyclic and collective for at least 5 seconds before there is any creep, tis all about having it track & balanced correctly.

you guessed right! Im still on r22's unfortunately. If I took my hands off the controls it would probably only take a few seconds to go bottom up.

I hadn't though of sling loading, certainly makes sense to lean out the left side. If you werent slinging, would you prefer the right seat, or would it make any difference at all?

[Gordy]

Rotorwashed:

If you werent slinging, would you prefer the right seat, or would it make any difference at all?

It really does not make a difference to me, other than if I am trying to take pictures at the same time---then it is easier to fly the left seat, as I hold the camera upside down with my left hand.

[Pandalet]

The Bo105 air restart procedure involves hanging on to the cyclic with your knees, while mucking about with starters and throttles with both hands. Just for interest :)

[whodictus]

I hate to admit this we used to fly Schwiezer 333 from LHS stopped the observers from playing with the collective

[exgroundcrew]

Just out of curiosity, why is the helicopter pilot normally on the right hand side instead of the aircraft normal left hand seat for captain. Plus do the air ambulances have duel controls

[Dak Man]

Winch and door on RHS.

What is "duel control", is it where collective fights cyclic to the death at 10 paces? ;);););)

[TimdeBoer]

Instrument panel is operated with the left hand from the right seat, which means the cyclic remains controlled.

[Ascend Charlie]

As Tim said.

Helicopters are dynamically unstable, and 99% do not have an autopilot, so the driver must hold the cyclic at all times. The collective can be frictioned to stay where it is, which means the left hand is available to change radio frequencies, move heading bugs, scratch yourself.

When flying from the left seat, it is a PITA to keep swapping hands to change the radio or punch the student.:eek:

[Gordy]

Many helicopters are operated from the left seat... the 500 series, also many aircraft have provisions for long lining from the left.

I also flew Astars with the left seat conversion.

[MOSTAFA]

Why? because they are - I'm sure the usual "I know everything and if not; I'm going to tell you anyway because" will be along soon to tell everybody.

Sorry day off and the sauce is flowing.

[burgerbun]

Something to do with the direction of rotation of the main rotor?

[Agaricus bisporus]

Something that could be found in seconds - and probably ten time over - by using the search function...
This topic has been done to death so, so many times already.

[bast0n]

Because the "Island" on an aircraft carrier is on the starboard side...........simples...................try doing it from the other seat, at night and in bad weather and you will know why we do it this way round!!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/BulwarkP1127trials2.jpg~original

[hillberg]

Mil spec for helicopters, Right seat PIC. Manufactured that way,:ugh:
hiller H 12 center, Bell 47 J center:rolleyes:
Hughes 300, Hughes 500 left seat,:eek:
Per FARs it's where the pilot can reach the switches.:D

[SASless]

Why do Helicopter Pilots sit in the Right Hand Seat....and why is the Right Hand Seat thought to be the Pilot's Seat and the Left the Co-Pilots Seat?

Does it matter which side is which?


Why do helicopter pilots sit in the right seat? | Need to Know | Air & Space Magazine (http://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-know/why-do-helicopter-pilots-sit-in-the-right-seat-243212/?no-ist)

[ersa]

The manufacturer assigns the Pilots seat, some manufactures allow the pilot to be in either seat (EC120)

[Vertical Freedom]

Because You CAN :E ;) :eek:

[Fareastdriver]

In most Russian helicopters the captain flies it from the left hand seat.

[Vertical Freedom]

47, 269, 369, 480, 280, 130 all from the Left :ooh:

[Ascend Charlie]

Depends if you have a bench seat across the front for three. Too hard to have the collective in the middle of the passenger's legs, so bung the pilot on the left where the lever is out of the way.

Otherwise, go back and read all the previous comments.

[BOBAKAT]

woaw...10 page and no one be sure why left or right seat for the pilot.....

But we are Helicopter pilot.... not disabled wings pilot.....

We can do ! that's all :)