Cabin Crew Luggage

[t1grm]

Can anyone tell me why each member of cabin crew requires a full size carry on trolley for a 3 hour each way, short haul return flight, with no overnight stop and, starting from and returning to the Airline hub? That’s what I had today - two full size carry on trolleys resplendent in airline colours taking up two slots in the over head bins for the two cabin crew working up front of the A319 I was on (plus matching satchel sized handbag in airline colours for the female member of staff). I have no idea if it was the same situation for the two crew in the rear. Meanwhile, I sat with my bag under the seat in front of me because the bins were full. What exactly do they need to keep them going through a 7 hour working day?

[edi_local]

Firstly, you don't know they aren't night stopping somewhere down route. Just because they may flight your flight and then the one after it, or the one before it, which may return to base, doesn't mean they won't then take another flight and overnight in another city where the aircraft has a night stop.

A crew may go, for example ZRH-LHR-ZRH-FCO-ZRH-LHR and stop in London for the night. They will then go LHR-ZRH-DME-ZRH-CDG-ZRH the next day and spend the night back at home.

Also, if the crew get stuck down route somewhere due to a technical fault or a long delay puts them out of hours then they need to have things with them to ensure they are able to stay in a hotel unexpectedly.

Also, pretty sure they need a change of uniform in case of any spills or tears and that is something which won't fit in to a handbag.

I will agree though, there is no need for their baggage to take up so much room in the cabin when most aircraft have separate hold locations for crew baggage. In my experience when cabin space is running out the first thing to go in the hold is crew bags.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

And then they end up going to baggage reclaim with everyone else's ;-)

[edi_local]

And then they end up going to baggage reclaim with everyone else's ;-)

From what I've seen, at least on any aircraft I have dealt with (I'm ground staff) the crew bags which do go in the hold are then bought to the aircraft side almost immediately to be put on crew transfer buses.

I have seen CC at normal check in desks on the odd occasion when they don't go through their dedicated processing areas, but their baggage has always had special tags on them so the loaders know to pack them differently.

[Hambleite]

Ask them to remove them and generally they will. They have to put thier bags somewhere but most of them are decent and will do their utmost to accomodate the passenger

[Rwy in Sight]

As I have said few years ago cabin crew bags in the overheads lockers show how little we can trust the baggage handling system to deliver the bags accurately and fast.

I am glad I invest on a cabin trolley that fits on most overhead compartment and I don't have to wait a similar time to a short domestic leg to get my bag.

[easyflyer83]

I'm crew and I'm back in my own bed more or less every night. However, in my case I have a change of civvies, a change of shirt and toiletries. The toiletries see me through some long days and some Unscheduled nightstops. Also in my crew bag is my 'plonky kit' which contains things such as oven gloves, calculator, ice tongs, sewing kit. All of which has to be carried as a minimum.
As a senior I also have a folder of paperwork, something which some juniors also carry. Put all that into a bag and you soon have a near full crew bag.

At my previous airline I didn't have any problems checking in my crew bag. When it comes to crew, with crew bags onboard, they need what's on those bags for the flight. That is why generally long haul crew have their case plus their trolley bag.

[t1grm]

Thanks for the replies all. As far as (scheduled) overnight stops are concerned I’m pretty sure this airline has none. It’s a small fleet of 10 x A3xx with one hub, flying short haul routes and AFAIK all aircraft are back to base every night. I take the point about a change of uniform and provisions for unscheduled stopovers. I don’t think putting them in the hold would help since they seemed to access them during the flight. Anyway, it’s something that has cropped up before (for me) and struck me as a bit of an anomaly. Sometimes they put them in the biz class coat lockers. It’s just a bit frustrating when you’re sitting there with your legs trussed up around the bag under the seat in front of you and you see cabin crew go to get a scarf out of their carry on in the overhead bins. :)

[Piltdown Man]

I think I know why the OP made this post - you get on a plane and find that once you get to your seat there is no room in the overhead locker because of crew bags. I agree, it's not acceptable. Crew bags should be stored in dedicated crew baggage area. My suggestion would be to complain to the operator. It's up to them to provide their crew with sufficient space to store their (required) bags - space which doesn't impinge on passenger bag storage.

[easyflyer83]

Ok, block off a locker and dedicate it to crew. In fact, some aircraft I've worked on have had just that. Crew need bags in the cabin, end of.

[Piltdown Man]

Easy83 - Yes, cabin crew have to have their bags. And they'll probably be pretty big ones (the bags that is) as well if the CAs carry the stuff they are required to do. Blocking off O/H lockers is merely a sticking plaster which pisses off passengers. What it is needed is proper cabin design, not hopeless optimism on the part of operators. They must provide proper storage for cabin crew.

[easyflyer83]

By the same token you could argue that airlines need to reduce the size of cabin baggage.
If we design, say a wardrobe, for crew luggage (which already exists on some types) how long is it before passengers want that space too?

[edi_local]

By the same token you could argue that airlines need to reduce the size of cabin baggage.
If we design, say a wardrobe, for crew luggage (which already exists on some types) how long is it before passengers want that space too?

A lot of carriers already use up wardrobe space to hang C class pax suits and jackets as well as store guitars!

I would echo your calls for a reduction in permitted carry on baggage size. It's getting pretty ridiculous now if I'm being honest. It doesn't make my job any easier and I don't even face passengers that much considering I work for a handling agent. If everyone turns up with, say, a trolley bag which fits exactly in to the bag sizer at the check in desk (which does come very close to happening during school holiday season I can assure you), well there is no way all of that will fit on to the aircraft. So you take bags at the gate or try to get people to combine hand luggage, which causes arguments as technically the pax are entitled to have one bag each at AxBxC and they aren't too pleased in being told otherwise. People are reluctant to give it over, I've seen people become very aggressive about it!

However, if you let them all on with the exact regulated size bags then the crew will just take it all off again as there is simply not enough room for it all, crew bags in the overhead bins or not!

Ideally all that should be permitted in the cabin is a handbag and/or a laptop. That way everyone has enough space and there are no delays at either end while someone in row 3 fumbles around trying to fit their trolley bag into the bin, holding up everyone else! However, no airline will take the steps to limit pax to just that and sadly, very few airports have a good enough baggage system which will ensure short waits for bags and 100% success at transporting them on the same flight as passengers!

[Piltdown Man]

Returning to the OP's initial post, I see that he said "sat with my bag under the seat in front of me because the bins were full." I'm not trying to be horrible but, that's what that space is for. As for what passenger's carry with them when they board, that is to subject to 1. Airline Policy, 2. Check-in administration, which should reflect the airline's policy, 3. Cabin Crew actions on boarding and lastly 4. Support from the company which should back the cabin crew when they make decisions whenever there is an excess of cabin baggage. For me the easiest method is to place excess cabin baggage in the hold. I will state politely that the bags will be going in the hold but also there will be no discussions about it. At the same time, I am also acutely aware as to who pays my wages.

As for the question:

If we design, say a wardrobe, for crew luggage (which already exists on some types) how long is it before passengers want that space too?

Answer: As soon as it is installed. And it is up to the crew to offer/deny the space.

Finally, it is up to us as crew to let our respective companies know how well their baggage policies are working and what they have to do improve them. We also have to take action when the check-in and gate staff allow excess baggage through. I'll make a call immediately we have excess baggage and make sure any delay is down to the handling agent. But at the same time, I'll always back them when they stick to our ground handling manual. Unfortunately, far too many employees and agents attempt to place sticking plasters on a broken system - one which in many cases, is in dire need of radical redesign.

[t1grm]

Returning to the OP's initial post, I see that he said "sat with my bag under the seat in front of me because the bins were full." I'm not trying to be horrible but, that's what that space is for.

True but, have you ever sat in an economy seat with a full size carry on trolley under the seat in front of you for three hours? You basically have to sit bolt upright with your feet on the floor immediatley in front of you - like you are in a job interview. It's not very comfy and, when you see crew getting stuff out of their bags in the overhead bins it grates a bit.

If everyone turns up with, say, a trolley bag which fits exactly in to the bag sizer at the check in desk (which does come very close to happening during school holiday season I can assure you), well there is no way all of that will fit on to the aircraft.

Why not? If every one buts their bags in "end on" in the overhard bins and the rest goes under the seats in front of them then it should all fit, no?

[Haven't a clue]

Always annoys me that locker above row 1 DEF (bulkhead, nothing allowed on the floor) on BA short haul is always full of crew carry ons. Row 1 ABC (or row 2 if there's no row 1) is usually full of cabin safety gear. I'll politely assume it's because there's no practical alternative; it's not just because the crew in the front want easy access to their gear.

As a Gold card holder I frequently get allocated a seat in this row. My options are either board as soon as possible to use the next row's lockers or change seat and be prepared to use the space under the seat in front of me if need be. I know this. But the crew are making extra work for themselves dealing with p*ssed off premium pax who wait in the lounge until called and thus board last finding the only place for their bags to be halfway down the aircraft or the hold.

Why don't the crew put their bags above row 2 or 3 or 4?

(It isn't new - I remember flight deck crew pilot bags always filled the front row lockers of Manx ATP's)

[TightSlot]

There is no requirement for Flight Attendants, or indeed anybody else, to justify or explain the contents of their baggage to anybody else. FA bags are present because they are required.

The fact is that recent developments within the LoCo industry mean that customers are encouraged to bring hand baggage only: Checked baggage is discouraged to speed turnaround and save weight. Given that space in the Cabin is finite, it is clearly unrealistic to expect that an in-finite volume of cabin baggage can be accommodated in the overhead bins - Some will have to be stowed in the other approved stowage, namely underneath the seat in front.

FA bags are not the cause of the problem, nor even a major contributor. However, because they tend to be labelled as such, they represent an easy target for the disgruntled.

[fonejacker]

On my airline, I will try my very upmost to relocate my crew bag if necessary. Nine times out of ten I end up stowing it in an empty food trolley (even though this is not an official stowage).

[LondonPax]

@Haven't a clue: crew bags are not the real problem for those sitting at the front - the real problem is that some passengers sitting further back put their bags in the o/h lockers at the front as they get on and pick them up as they get off. That's why even if I'm travelling business class I try to board early to make sure I don't have to go halfway down the aircraft to find a space (and fight the flow of pax to get back to it on exit). I shouldn't have to but there it is. First-world problems!

And, TightSlot, this isn't only on the LoCo's - it's the same on e.g. BA. Pax avoid checking baggage because they know they'll have to wait ages for it at the other end or they fear it's going to get lost.

[easyflyer83]

I'm not aware of KM's SOP but if your bag under the seat made it so uncomfortable for you then it sounds like it wasn't stowed correctly and should have been offloaded and placed in the hold.

[DaveReidUK]

Why not? If every one buts their bags in "end on" in the overhard bins and the rest goes under the seats in front of them then it should all fit, no?

No. Simple maths.

[t1grm]

No. Simple maths.

Err... according to my simple maths: if everybody has only 1 standard size carry on and a standard size carry on fits under the seat in front of you then ergo you can fit all of the luggage under all of the seats (bar emergency exits and row 1). Add in the overhead bins and that's more than enough space for every passenger to carry on one piece.

[LondonPax]

if everybody has only 1 standard size carry on

Big if. That's the point: they don't. I've seen pax carrying on one massive wheeled bag that only just fits in the o/h bin let alone under the seat plus a smaller bag. And no-one challenges them. Not only that, but instead of telling them that the bag should go in the hold (which, to be fair, is the job of the check-in or gate staff) the ever-helpful cabin crew try to stuff the monster bag into the o/h and will happily move other (earlier-boarding) pax's regular-sized bags to do so.

[t1grm]

Yes I agree this is wrong. That is down to rigid enforcement of hand baggage policy at the gate which - as you say - often does not happen. The point I was making is that if hand baggage policy was rigedly enforced it is possible for everyone to have one piece of carry on luggage.

[DaveReidUK]

and a standard size carry on fits under the seat in front of youAnd that's the other, equally big, if.

[t1grm]

Mine does on an A3xx and it's about the max size: 37x52x21 cm :)

I thought that was the point of a standard size - it fits under a standard aircraft seat. If it does not then it's not standard size and we're back to enforcement at the gate again. :hmm:

[DaveReidUK]

If it does not then it's not standard sizeWrong. OK, looks like we'll have to do the maths again:

A standard IATA cabin bag is up to 22" x 18" x 10" (56 x 45 x 25 cm). You wouldn't be allowed to stow one of those under the seat with the long dimension fore-and-aft because it would obstruct adjacent passengers' access, so the only permitted way would be cross-wise.

The Boeing 737 has an internal cross-section of 139" (actually slightly less at floor level, but we'll ignore that for simplicity). A triple seat unit with enough width to accommodate 3 cross-wise 22" cabin bags as above would therefore need to be at least 66" wide, which would leave a 7" aisle between them.

In practice, of course, economy seat units on a 6-abreast narrow-body are typically around 60" wide overall, so even without allowing for the seat legs being where you don't want them to be, there's no way your 3 x 22" bags are going to fit underneath.

Same on Airbus narrow-bodies - although they have about 7" additional cabin width, the seats aren't appreciably wider because the circular fuselage cross-section means that the sidewalls curve more.

[wiggy]

What it is needed is proper cabin design, not hopeless optimism on the part of operators. They must provide proper storage for cabin crew.

I agree.

FWIW similar happens on the other side of the flight deck door - whenever the manufacturers kindly builds in storage space for crew bags somebody in the company seems to say: " Oh, empty space, I'll have that"

My present type has a purpose built and nicely labelled stowage for 2 X wheelies/small suitcases on the flight deck. Sadly somebody in the company decided that said space should be used to house a oversized but usually half full holdall containing manuals. As a result Flight crew bags end up jammed in the bottom of the wardrobe or fighting for space with other items elsewhere on the Flight Deck.

I rather suspect similar has happened over the years in the cabin.

[t1grm]

You wouldn't be allowed to stow one of those under the seat with the long dimension fore-and-aft because it would obstruct adjacent passengers' access, so the only permitted way would be cross-wise.

I've always stowed mine end on (when I've had to becuase the bins are full) and never had a problem (except you can't strech your legs out in front of you). The width and height is a perfect fit and the end is flush with the back of the seat. You can't do cross wise anyway becuase there are rails between each seat. We'll have to agree to differ. Anyway this is all getting away from the original question of what cabin crew put in the bags for a flight with no overnight stop.

[DaveReidUK]

We'll have to agree to differ.

Actually we can agree to agree. :O

I, like you, have often stowed my carry-on bag under the seat in front, particularly if I'm in the centre seat, between the seat tracks. But then my bag, like yours, is less than two-thirds of the IATA size limit for carry-ons.

[t1grm]

52 cm vs 56 cm - hardly 2/3 the size :rolleyes:

[DaveReidUK]

52 cm vs 56 cm - hardly 2/3 the sizeYour case (and mine): 40.4 litres (2465 cubic inches)
IATA limit: 63 litres (3845 cubic inches)

[t1grm]

Fine except the main thrust of your argument about not putting a full size carry on under the seat in front of you is that it is too long so would have to go sideways. If 52 cm fits lengthways (as it does in my case) then 56 cm will also fit so volume is irrelevant. But this is all getting a bit silly now.

[DaveReidUK]

Sorry, I'm an engineer, I'm used to thinking in 3 dimensions. :O

But you've lost me completely now:

If 52 cm fits lengthways (as it does in my case) then 56 cm will also fit Make up your mind. You've already told us that your 52cm case fits exactly flush with the back of the seat (as per FAA regulations), so the only way that a 56cm case "fits" is if the cabin crew ignore the aforesaid regulations. Presumably there is some size at which you would deem a bag not to fit, either legally or practically ?

But this is all getting a bit silly now.Agreed.

[ExXB]

The IATA standard is no longer a standard. The European Commission, and US DOT to a lessor degree, felt that airlines agreeing a standard was anticompetitive. So the standard is now only a recommendation.

The result, no airline provides more and quite a few provide less. But the consumer is better off, really! :rolleyes:

[DaveReidUK]

The result, no airline provides more and quite a few provide less.Slick bit of PR here from Wizz Air, which goes some way towards explaining why there's a growth industry in "small" Wizz-compatible underseat cabin bags, allowing you to avoid paying the €10 charge that they levy for a standard IATA-size carry-on.

Wizz Air's New Cabin Baggage Policy - YouTube

[Hotel Tango]

All very well for the unwashed who wear the same clothes for a week :};)

[pamann]

And if the over-head stowages above you are full, then why not take a look further down the cabin for space or even ask?

A little known fact for some passengers is that all over-head stowages go to the same destination that said passenger is flying to. Some people are so precious that the space above them belongs to them and only them. :rolleyes:

[t1grm]

Well done Sherlock. Obviously that's a given. I don’t think anyone here has mentioned the requirement to have the space above their seat reserved. :rolleyes: In this case all the bins the entire length of the aircraft were full so under the seat in front of me was the only option. I don’t think anyone’s that daft and if they are they deserve to sit with their bag under the seat in front of them.

[DaveReidUK]

A little known fact for some passengers is that all over-head stowages go to the same destination that said passenger is flying to. Some people are so precious that the space above them belongs to them and only them.Caution: irony doesn't always travel well ...

Loved the show, by the way :O

[SLF3]

On a 737 a 'standard' bag won't go in the locker end on. Was first on a 737 and found six dead heading crew (with more than one bag each) plus crew bags lengthwise in just about every locker on the plane.

One day airlines will realise they are a service industry.

[ExXB]

On many B737s the bins are large enough for a standard 'IATA' bag to go end-on. But not all airlines have use the larger bins.

It's not just that they (allegedly) are a service industry, they sometimes (:sad:) forget who the customer is. Employees, be they deadhead crew or travelling on a pass/ID ticket should know better. And I do understand that flying standby they don't want to check a bag, but that's what the space under the seat in front of you is for.

Has any airline ever tried a slightly deeper bin so that a standard bag can go end-on, on it's side? You would lose a bit of headroom but you could get a third more bags on board.

[FlyingApe]

On a 737 a 'standard' bag won't go in the locker end on. Was first on a 737 and found six dead heading crew (with more than one bag each) plus crew bags lengthwise in just about every locker on the plane.

One day airlines will realise they are a service industry.

*Exaggeration Alert*.Six positioning crew, plus the operating crew and "just about every locker" was full?Yeah right.

In the airline I work for, Deadhead crew are not on standby tickets, they are working, positioning at the Airlines behest, and hence fully ticketed.
We are only allowed 25 minutes turnaround time, even with a crew change, and the positioning crew operating straight away.

[ExXB]

It took you over three years to come up with that?

[cavortingcheetah]

There is an argument I've heard which runs to the effect that the real function of a cabin crew is to save the life of the miserable passenger when the aluminium hits the tar pit. When I was flight crew, there was a certain amount of stuff I always liked to have with me as a sort of Linus Blanket. In Africa this included a pack of condoms, for water carrying purposes and a .45ACP for hyenas, jackals and other assorted bush vermin.
As far as I am concerned, anything that the crew wants to take along with them to assuage their needs and necessities is absolutely fine. A happy crew means a focused one so pack another pair of stockings darling and don't think twice about your nylons when you're going down an evacuation slide from the upper deck of a 747.

[XSBaggage]

I remember in the early 2000s I had often to deal with a tour company who had chartered a Ryanair B737-200 every weekend. This was in the days before Ryanair offered hot food on board, so not only did we have to make sure the oven inserts were loaded to heat the (rather extensive by today's standards) meals, but the bread rolls for the return sector were put in a huge cardboard box that took up the whole front locker on the DEF side. Every week there was major consternation as the pax tried to jam their bags in alongside and the rolls would end up squashed!

[Metro man]

Some of the overhead lockers, generally right at the front and rear are used for emergency equipment which further reduces available luggage space.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

And then we get the joys of emergency evacuation and the passengers who insist on leaving with their cabin baggage. A level of stupidity that leaves me agog.

I started flying for a living in 1987 and have watched as cabin baggage allowances have increased to the point that I now believe to be unsafe. When passengering about on positioning trips or going on holiday I often watch passengers being allowed through check in with cabin bags that are outside the legal/airline limits.

Off topic, I went to Philladelphia for a meeting last year for one day. Flew out LHR on Sunday, back on Monday night. I was called to security adjacent to the BA gate at Phillie on the Monday because I hadn't checked in any hold baggage. Spare clothes (now laundry) I-Pad, phone charger, Kindle, paperwork for the meeting etc were all in my old flight case, when I started flying the baggage gauges to check cabin baggage sizes were based around the size of a pilot's flight case, and if your bag didn't fit the gauge it went in the hold. These days the gauges seem to have grown to the size of a substantial weekender bag.

SND

[Metro man]

Aircraft manufacturers are increasing the size of the overhead lockers in response to demand from the airlines. Ryanair are quite open about not wanting to carry hold baggage as it increases costs and turnaround times.

I look at laundry facilities when I book accommodation in order to reduce the amount of baggage I need to take with me. If there's a washing machine I can get by with hand luggage.

[herman the crab]

I work in a passenger carrying environment at 0' ASL. Some people have bags bigger and heavier for a weekend than I emigrated to the USA with...

What the hell do people feel the need to take with them for a holiday?!

HTC

[mongirl]

Some of the overhead lockers, generally right at the front and rear are used for emergency equipment which further reduces available luggage space.
Yes - and this emergency equipment may save your sorry rear end one day! I for one would rather have a BCF, oxygen and a defib etc handy than someone's 30kg overweight and oversized bag. Which is going to be more handy should a situation arise?

[DaveReidUK]

Yes - and this emergency equipment may save your sorry rear end one day! I for one would rather have a BCF, oxygen and a defib etc handy than someone's 30kg overweight and oversized bag. Which is going to be more handy should a situation arise?

I think we all know what emergency equipment is for.

The OP was simply making the point that space for carry-ons is finite and often less than it appears. Nobody is suggesting that the emergency kit be jettisoned to accommodate more bags.