BMI BAby New Routes

[flysr4ever]

Hello,

-- There is some pretty BIG BMI Baby News out today. Firstly they will start 3 new routes this Autumn with seats going on sale in May. These will be Geneva, Alicante and Munich!

-- Their current 3 aircraft will increase to 5 aircraft in Autumn and then to 8 aircraft next year.

-- A second UK hub will be established in March 2003.

Jeremiah

[flyingfrog]

This is very good news.

Any ideas as to where the new base will be?

My guess would be MME or LGW.

[newswatcher]

...and a load factor of 74%, nice work!

[Wigglet]

Perhaps I'm seeing more into a recent comment made about bmi, MAN and services to points in Europe......

"I can see us doing those routes, but it won't be mainline."

Now, everybody read that to mean the pencil jets would be doing the routes.

I have a suspicion however that Baby, now established at one MAAplc owned airport, could well make their second base at MAN itself.

It's the only "major" airport without a low-cost presence, and with it's experience of Baby at EMA, perhaps the winds of change are blowing through MAAplc's attitude to low-cost operators.

Wigglet

[Stan By]

It's the only "major" airport without a low-cost presence Except Ryanair:D

[fokker70]

Don't rule out the South Coast as the next hub...There is an EMA sister there...;)

[JB007]

So how are GO doing out of EMA in comparison ?...sounds like BMIBaby are doing ok!!http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif

[Peter Skellan]

Despite Bishops spoiling tactics with Baby, Go are doing fine apparently. Loads high and large chunks of the summer schedule already sold.

Any fool can paint a couple of his own 737's and sell a summer timetable to established low cost destinations. Particularly if a well known low cost airline is heavily marketing the airport in question at the time.

The winter will be the real issue. Will Baby have enough non sunshine customers to stem the usual winter losses? Have they got any tie ins or added value for the ski market? Will the brand generate loyalty over the summer or are the punters just chasing the promotional start up fares?

Going from 2 to 5 to 8 aircraft in a year looks mighty ambitious. And lets not forget that every passenger gained by Baby is one lost to BMI or BMIR. It does not seem to make much sense to Joe Punter to be offered an EMA - ALC service on a BMI Fokker 100 OR an EMA-ALC service on a BMIBaby 737. You are robbing Peter to confuse Paul.

Same thing on the domestics. £35 BMIBaby or £240 BMI? Same airports same flight time and barely the chance to gulp a coffee. You make BMI look like crooks and whatever BMIBaby makes BMI will loose.

So what is the BM group? A well respected full service EU airline. An international airline part of a global network. A regional UK airline focussing on point to point business travel. A low cost airline delivering relaibly low fares and no frills.

Or a Jack of All Trades and Master of None.

Bishop said no, never, not about becoming a low cost airline. Right up until the point Go moved into EMA. Within a month he launched BMIBaby operating all the routes offered by Go. Thats a spoiling tactic because he is running scared. He's come to the low costs market too late. Everyone knows Ryan and Easy, a lot know Go and handful are aware of Buzz. Baby is going to have to spend a lot of money for a lot of years to achieve any respectable brand recognition.

Filling 737's with £25 fares in the summer is very very easy. Making money in the low cost sector is not.

Go have plans to put 5 737's into EMA by next Spring. If Baby want to do the same then thats going to be 1,500 low cost seats on the Apron each morning next year. Each doing 7 sectors each as an average gives 10,500 seats a day in and out of EMA. Now thats going to be interesting on a wet Wednesday in Oct,Nov,Dec,Jan,Feb,Mar...

Bishop isn't serious about low cost at EMA. Why should he be? He has had a nice profitable full service and regional operation there for years thank you very much. All he needs to do is cripple Go with marginal yield and growth and they will up sticks to a European base in a year or two and pull out of EMA. Then he can quietly wind up BMIBaby and possibly keep the crews T&C's when he brings them back into BMI proper (scale B).

Its very cynical but he is a shrewd businessman...

PS

[682ft AMSL]

Some very interesting points Peter on the capacity vs demand issue in the winter.

However, you seem to be under the impression tht bmi baby are competing directly with bmir on the same routes. This is not the case. Baby now operate routes such as DUB, AGP, FAO etc instead of bmir, not as well as. Although clearly this means some substitution issues are at play, the theory I guess is that increased volumes will compensate for lower yields.

682

[positive]

Hello,


Does anyone know how the loads are doing on their Dublin route since the switch from BMI. to Baby from EMA.Also surprised Ryanair have not shown any interest in Baby at Dublin,maybe they don't see them as a threat.

Thanks,

[Hogg]

Im very very impressed by Bmi Babys services so far, having been on 7 flights so far in the last few weeks.

The Cabin Crew very professional and caring yet in a cool relaxing way. Flight Deck Pas relevant and friendly.

Cant complain about in-flight catering as if u want it u buy it!

So far on Ema-Dub flights havent seen any less than 85 paxs, on Dub-Ema i usually check in fairly latish, coupon number never less than 89 so far!

Nice T-Shirts too Girls.
:p

Hogg

[MAN_Dispatcher]

I do hope bmi baby choose Teesside for their 2nd base - it has a lot of potential to offer a low-fares carrier.

Firstly, there is no significant low-fares presence in the north-east of England, except Go's NCL-STN, and Ryanair's MME-DUB services. Also, MME has a very large catchment area, stretching from as far north as Tyneside and Northumberland, south into Yorkshire, and as far west as Cumbria.

bmi, despite selling off their ground handling business off to Aviance at MME, still have their own engineering presence, and their relationship with Teesside Airport goes back over 30 years, as MME was the first BD route from LHR. If you look on the MME website, it mentions that bmi british midland have agreed to maintain their LHR route at the current level for at least a further 3 years, not ruling out the possibility of extra services or new routes from MME. Also, the airport are aiming to increase their pax numbers from the current figure of around 750,000 per year to approx 2,000,000 per year by 2010. This seems a bit ambitious given the current scheduled operations ex-MME, and the fact that charter seat availability ex-MME is down on last year.
Do they know something we don't?!

Then again, the rumours are suggesting Southampton as the 2nd base...............anyone know anything else??

[fokker70]

Can't see it being Southampton, agree that South coast would work as there is an opportunity there and little by way of low cost, however runway only 1700 meters at Southampton and not very reliable especially in the winter. Current baby routes ex EMA to the med would be difficult to replicate if not impossible with the 73's

[nitefiter]

Wot about Bournemouth??

[flyingfrog]

Bournemouth would seem feasable, being that it is owned by Manchester Airport plc, the same group that own EMA.

Although, I still have a feeling that it might be MME.

[Astronut]

I would have thought MAN could do with a low cost pescence, Ryan Air don't really count as it's a not a base and don't serve anywhere else except Dublin. MAN must be losing out to LPL and easyjet. MAN must have the biggest catchment area outside of the London airports.

[nitefiter]

Been on local news today, EMA is to make available up to one million pounds to local residents for sound proofing homes, double glazing,loft insulation and new doors. The costs being passed on to aircraft operators that use the airport at night.

[jocko0102]

Manchester does have the biggest catchment outside London but the biggest problem they have to getting one of the no frills bunch in is that there are still airports around that will strike a better deal (i.e we will fly into your airport but we wont pay for it,airport needs passengers so response is OK!).
You might find that some routes are served to Man in reverse (i.e Ryanair from their base in Dublin to Man and back).
So you could get GO doing Stansted to Man or Belfast to Man with Easy etc.

[Landing_24R]

Sorry to stray off-topic for a moment, but if I may...

Ryanair added another Dublin flight from MAN earlier this month, arriving at 22:35 and leaving at 23:00. Loads on the flights are very good apparently, especially when Man United are at home :D

I recently attended a 'talk' by the Ryanair sales manager Tim Jeans, and he basically said the same things that are being said here- Manchester is in a top position for a low cost base, but the infrastructure (such as airbridges, nice lounges, superb check-in and pax facilities) are simply not needed by low cost airlines, and MAN landing charges are through the roof compared to EMA, STN etc, making low-cost ops there commercially dangerous. The things you pay for at MAN are not needed by low-cost airlines anyway.

However, he did say that Ryanair would never rule out MAN for siginificant expansion, even if it was highly unlikely. Maybe BMIbaby ar willing to take the gamble? Let's hope so, it's about time we had a low cost based here :cool:

[dwlpl]

"arriving at 22:35 and leaving at 23:00" this flight operates on a Monday, Friday and Sunday for a period of twenty three days in April/May according to Ryanair.

[flysr4ever]

Hello,

Bmibaby were suppose to be releasing all the details of their plans for the winter schedule today (May the 1st) and the new Geneva and Alicante flights should have been open for bookings.

However, nothing on their website or anywhere else.

Anyone know anything?

[Landing_24R]

dwlpl,

I beg your pardon, you are quite correct it would seem. My source was Manchester Airport who overlook such details :) The Ryanair site confirms the limited route period.

Cheers
Landing 24R

[Young Paul]

Do Manchester actually want a low cost airline there? Maybe they're happy with what they have business-wise. Maybe that's why they encouraged Go and bmi to go to EMA.

[positive]

Slightly off topic but BMI Baby to-day said it will carry 500,000 passengers in its first 9 months of service 125,000 of these on the Dublin route.Not bad for a new startup even allowing for the existing services it took off BMI.

[Exel]

Bournemouth would seem rather doubtful to me as another low cost carrier is apparently in current negotiation with the airport authorities. See the TOPIC.

[Simon Lumley]

According to the bmibaby website, they're goung to announce their winter schedule this week with a major expansion apparently. Even though ticket sales to Geneva, Alicante and Munich were supposed to go on sale on 1st May. Instead, they have decided to delay the launch to either Wednesday 8th or Thursday 9th May.

It looks as if they are going to launch 3 more new routes. I heard about 4 weeks ago that they were strongly looking at Italian routes - according to Derby Evening Telegraph. bmi have also apllied to fly EMA- Budapest, Warsaw, Basel, Zurich. Other likely routes are Copenagen and Berlin. Wouldn't it be nice if bmi regional also launched EMA- Dusseldorf and re-introdiced Frankfurt... quite a busy winter 2002/3!!!!

[Exel]

Niteflyer,Fokker70,FlyingFrog

Your hunches may just have a smattering of truth about them as i have now heard that BOH is alledgedly being visited later this week by BMI management ---- Hmmm, 2 airlines interested in BOH --Whatever next.

Now i'm sure lots of airports play host to the management of many airlines with aspirations to commencing operations so read what you will into this. BOH (and many other provincial airports)have been known to push the boat out to get new operaters, with offers such as nil landing charges and reduced handling fees to get the services off the ground. I suppose it's all about economics and who comes up with the best offers.

[fokker70]

Typical - I suppose if BOH is good for one low cost carrier to base aircraft then it is a matter of who gets in there first. No doubt there is plenty of money (little competition) in the area so that has got to be attractive...

[stevobeevo]

BOH is well placed to pick up on the low fares success story. They can offer a really good deal to any airline, as mentioned by Exel. Plus BOH is right in the south west corner of the London sprawl. London only being 90mins away. FR have proved that people are willing to travel a little out of their way if the price is right, e.g. BOH-HHN route. Who'd of thought that route would work as well as it has.

Rumour had it that Go were interested in SOU, but if the Easyjet takeover goes ahead, I can't see them setting up at SOU, when EJ are expanding up the road at Gatwick!

[Simon Lumley]

Just heard that they're giong to announce their new UK base in mid-June...

I'm sure its between MME or BOH... then again it could be CWL, to compete with Go at BRS... or GLA cos bmi regional have a number of flights to there.... God knows!!!!

[stevobeevo]

Don't know if this has any relevence to where the new BMIBABY base may be, but Bournemouth is undergoing a lot of work on taxiways etc and on the airfield plus the carparks are being enlarged. Quite a large tax free shop has been closed and turned into office space right in the main terminal. EMA is also BOH sister airport. Couple that with the fact that a number of BMI management had a meeting with the airport a few weeks ago.

Then again its probably just another rumour :confused: ????

[RAGBAG]

"Just heard that they're giong to announce their new UK base in mid-June... "

And no doubt when it's published in the Derby Evening Telegraph you'll let us know Simon