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probes
6th Jan 2013, 11:23
- and I do suspect I might just be naive or old or something, but how much crazier can it get? The last one being Labour has urged the government to consider introducing legal limits on sugar, salt and fat content in food.
I mean, that the government has to have the limits, and that it hasn't been done before, and that there are producers who produce harmful food. And it's just about one little bit of bad stuff that should not be added (although it's not as bad as with the Chinese milk).


Breakfast cereals: to reduce high sugar content

Fruit juice drinks: these are drinks which are not pure fruit juice and can have added sugar - but are confusing to spot among pure fruit juice products
Ready meals: regulation would stop some brands adding too much salt
Crisps: caps could reduce salt levels
Biscuits, cookies and cakes: manufacturers might be encouraged to rethink levels of fat


BBC News - Consider tougher regulation in obesity fight - Labour (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20914685)
The last but one was a next human Barbie-doll (and this one had brains even, allegedly Charlotte Poole: Meet the human Barbie with a brain even bigger than her 34F chest | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257304/Charlotte-Poole-Meet-human-Barbie-brain-bigger-34F-chest.html)), or someone surgical who struggled to look like Ken.
Then the black people bleaching their skin BBC News - Africa: Where black is not really beautiful (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20444798), and the white ones getting roasted on beaches. No-one likes their looks. Everybody wants to be someone else.
The average age of people in agriculture being 58 in the US of A, and 65 in Europe (or was it vv?). Does anybody remember how itís done when these people die?
And the US producing (or considering) kevlar-schoolbags to protect their children.

vulcanised
6th Jan 2013, 11:40
People getting obsessed with all manner of things (religion, global warming, smoking, fats in food etc.) is all very well and fairly normal. It's when the morons we have elected start legislating over it that we have real cause for concern.

stuckgear
6th Jan 2013, 11:49
yep. what with labour holing the economy below the waterline and buggering up every kind of social cohesion in the UK, spending 1m plus of public money to try and find a policy or two and still not managing it, they are pressing the government on legislating personal choice.

edballs meanwhile has screwed his pensions tax plans by spending 1bn twice..

Balls' pension tax plan 'fatally flawed' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/9783281/Balls-pension-tax-plan-fatally-flawed.html)

still, there's always a numbnuts that will vote for them :ugh:

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Jan 2013, 12:45
the morons we have elected
So why not elect some non-morons then? Or, if you can't find any on the ballot paper, stand yourself?

sitigeltfel
6th Jan 2013, 13:51
They can say that now that Prescott is out of the way.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHZDhJBbFOdlvDKL9SFW1kjMgNp8_-YknAurAn9P6m-PFAiYL3ng

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ricardian
6th Jan 2013, 15:18
They can say that now that Prescott is out of the way.
He can eat as much as he wants (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7357430.stm)

Sciolistes
6th Jan 2013, 15:23
Kids are fat because they are lazy. They are lazy because they are not driven or inspired by their parents. The parents don't drive or inspire their kids because they are under financial pressure, both work and barely have enough time to get home never mind play sport, cook meals and help with homework. Either that or they divorced probably due in part to those same pressures.

reynoldsno1
6th Jan 2013, 21:28
BBC News - Africa: Where black is not really beautiful, and the white ones getting roasted on beaches. No-one likes their looks

A 1961 song by Jeremy Taylor - Black-White Calypso - the more things change the more they stay the same ...

The other day reading Drum magazine
I'll tell you some of the things I seen (repeat)
Advertisements for special cream in every section
Give you a soft and pale complexion
Make your black skin lighter creamier and whiter
But when I look in the Star what do I find
But advertisements of a different kind
Because it seems that the white people have a notion
To make them selves black with the Sun Tan Lotion

CHORUS - Tell me, tell me, tell me why I want to know the fact
Why all the black people want to go white and the white people want to go black.

Turning the pages of Zonk I see
A special tonic, which guarantee (repeat)
To make your curly hair straight
And bring you success on every date
Misfortune in love is attributed there
To having such coal black curly hair
But when I pass by the Rosebank Beauty Parlour
I see the women sitting there hour after hour
With a great big thing on their head trying to make their straight hair curly instead
Ain't it ridiculous!

Tell me, tell me...CHORUS -

Now the other day the native girl she say to me
Au! Master, your madam she is very skinny
She say she also is much too thin
She must have some fattening vitamin
She say that it's a fact that
All the men like her bottom to be fat
But in the northern suburbs the women are used
To living on lettuce and orange juice
To be slim is their preoccupation
My god, what a crazy nation - this is so

Tell me, tell me...CHORUS -

I have a simple remedy
For all this frustrated energy (repeat)
If you blacks have too much of this pigment stuff
And the white people say you've not got enough
Don't waste your time buying creams and jellies
Trying to change the colour of your bellies
but follow the example of my brother
He married a black girl, they love each other
And she gives him a little bit of black in the night
And he gives her a little bit of white

That's the solution!

Now I, now I, I know why I can tell you the fact
Why all the black people want to go white and the white people want to go black

Milo Minderbinder
6th Jan 2013, 21:45
Sorry Probes, but I have to disagree

the current epidemics of obesity, heart disease and diabetes make it imperative that industrially manufactured food be subject to strict rules regarding safe ingredient levels

in an ideal world, none of us would be eating factory processed food, but we all know theres no chance of that ever happening. Three quarters of the UK population now probably don't know how to dig a garden, let alone plant seeds. As to cooking properly.....the percentage who can do that is rapidly declining.

We are faced with an increasingly sedentary population who are rapidly losing the life skills to grow cook and eat healthy food in a safe manner and in safe quantities. In place of these skills we have a group of global megacorps making unhealthy shite on an industrial scale, encouraging us to consume as much of their crap-u-like products as possible.

421dog
6th Jan 2013, 22:27
C'mon over this way.
I just finished a dinner of fish I caught myself.
I'm making a batch of pheasant stock (though I bought the celery, I grew the carrots, parsley and onions that are simmering with it. Of course I shot the pheasants as well.

Nobody is telling me how much salt to include.

Nothing is irradiated, so I'm being sorta careful about salmonella

Tell me why we need more strict rules?

Milo Minderbinder
6th Jan 2013, 22:31
421dog

Its precisely because the majority of people don't live and eat as you've described, indeed would be unable to prepare food in the way you describe, that rules are required for industrially processed food

No-one (I hope) is considering legislation on how to grow and cook your own

421dog
6th Jan 2013, 22:36
What I was trying to suggest is that I'm eating what I want, rather than what someone mandates I have to.

Milo Minderbinder
6th Jan 2013, 22:57
and there's no reason why anyone with the same skills and abilities shouldn't do the same - given that the food is available to them
everyone has the option of buying fresh food and doing what they want with it

any legislation is about the freedom of Global Megashite Inc. to purvey unhealthy rubbish masquerading as food, and would be analogous to the legislation regarding pharmaceuticals

421dog
6th Jan 2013, 23:05
Fair enough, not trying to be contrary...

Fox3WheresMyBanana
6th Jan 2013, 23:13
They are lazy because they are not driven or inspired by their parents. The parents don't drive or inspire their kids because they are under financial pressure, both work and barely have enough time to get home never mind play sport, cook meals and help with homework.With respect, all wrong. All the above applied to my parents and practically everyone else on my estate. Two things were important.

My parents kicked me out of the house for most of my spare time.
We had green spaces (big enough to play football on) adjacent.

And perhaps another point. My mum knew how to cook, and we only had healthy food.
and she taught me how to cook, bake etc also.

Seldomfitforpurpose
6th Jan 2013, 23:24
Fox,

If you are in your 50's, like me then your childhood and mine are of a very similar nature however that is not the society we live in today which is the point that was being very well made.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
6th Jan 2013, 23:33
I still disagree. I think that 'society' has very little to do with it. Having taught at boarding schools for 10 years, where we still kick them out of the house and have green spaces, there aren't any fat, offensive kids. Really. Same is true of anywhere I've lived where the same has applied. 14 year old girls will still play 'hide and seek' and love it. You can't tell them to, never could, but if you kick 'em out they'll do it on their own.

Same applies to healthy food. They get pizza, etc, but really unhealthy stuff is twice a week only. And the live-in staff eat the same.

Seldomfitforpurpose
6th Jan 2013, 23:43
And that is a true reflection of the whole of modern day society :confused:

Cacophonix
6th Jan 2013, 23:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3N1MlvVc4

Caco

Fox3WheresMyBanana
7th Jan 2013, 00:43
SFFP - no, not at all. I just think that if a green space big enough to play football on had to be provided on all new estates, and surrounded by the houses so parents felt it was safe enough, it would be a big start.

I lived on a new estate that had that (1970s). Of course, in the 1990s they built another block of houses on the green space. Drug problems, crime problems started immediately I'm told. :ugh::ugh:

Caco -oh, that song brings back memories - I was going out with a manic depressive at the time. Much later I lived in Bath with a view of the city, which is where R.O. was when he composed it.
Both the original and this version are magnificent.

Culverhay school, where R.O. went, is to close shortly. It was and always has been a dump. A former colleague of mine left it to come work for me. I've been regaled with many a tale of just what a dump it was.

And it is only 3 miles from one of the delightful boarding schools I was on about earlier.

A very, very apt tune really.

Seldomfitforpurpose
7th Jan 2013, 01:14
Fox,

We sing from the same song sheet,we really do but for me what sums it up best is that when I went to school there were less than a handful of truly fat kids in my year and the word obesity had yet to come into everyday use.

Add to that the fact that if you lived more than 3 miles away you got a free bus and less than that and you walked, the notion that mum gave you a lift to school was unheard of. Try driving near the main entrances of virtually any school in the land nowadays at dumping off/kicking out time and its like trying to negotiate Trafalfar Square at midnight on NYE.

Factor in the Playstation in all its various guises, Sky TV with its thousands of channels, mobile phones and kids today are a very different species to those we went to school with.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
7th Jan 2013, 01:28
Kids are just the same. Really, really the same. The kids at the schools I taught at had mobiles, computer games, satellite TV etc. We just rationed them.

What's changed is the attitudes of parents. They seem increasingly under-confident about exercising their authority, and also about allowing their kids real freedom.

I think the attitude of society to teachers has changed also. Mine were very liberal in the broadest sense. I tried to be similar. But I had the luxury of another career if I wanted it, and many teachers feel too scared now to say or do anything which isn't Government-approved.

Which I think gets back to the OP's point about over-control by Government.

Worrals in the wilds
7th Jan 2013, 01:42
What's changed is the attitudes of parents. They seem increasingly under-confident about exercising their authority, and also about allowing their kids real freedom.I think a lot of them (particularly mothers) worry excessively about what other parents think of them. A few of my friends have kids and they're constantly anxious about what other people think about their child rearing capabilities.

The constant 24/7 media stream about murders and assaults also leads people to think that the world is more unsafe than it was, while in many places the opposite is actually true.

Women's magazines and female bullies feed off this anxiety, so many of these mothers end up neurotic wrecks who feel that telling their kids to do something is a form of child abuse. The fear of being called a Bad Mum transcends any confidence or common sense they may have started with. In a lot of families (not all) it's the kids who are basically calling the shots. :uhoh:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
7th Jan 2013, 02:02
Agreed, and I would argue the problems start with girls' magazines. Ration them too!

Worrals in the wilds
7th Jan 2013, 02:34
Yeah, they're horrid :(. They weren't as bad in the late eighties/early nineties. I wasn't sure if that was due to nostalgia effect, so I dug some out from under the family homestead and they were actually quite empowering (apart from the cigarette ads, that is :\).

Of course this was before marketeers worked out that miserable people buy more stuff.

One of the more heartening things I notice in the far west (rural part of the state) is that the newsagency 'girls' magazine' racks are usually full of horse magazines, not the teeny crap 'hate yourself, buy things and put out for boys' propaganda you get in town. Yay for the bushies! :ok:

Nervous SLF
7th Jan 2013, 04:00
As for putting yourself on the ballot paper? Well a good idea but it seems to me that far too many voters have been brain washed into only voting for "The Party". They don't seem to delve deeper and choose the best person to represent them.

Fliegenmong
7th Jan 2013, 04:14
"put out for boys' propaganda you get in town"

I've known some country girls that didn't need any propoganda WITW!! Horse riding was fun....but not the most fun ride in town....especially when the country girls came to the coast!! :}:cool:

(Just realised how long ago that all was, and how old I'm getting :{)

probes
7th Jan 2013, 05:10
Uhh, good to see it's not just me. Sad, too.
Super, reynoldsno1, that is 110% good!
Milo - the current epidemics of obesity, heart disease and diabetes make it imperative that industrially manufactured food be subject to strict rules regarding safe ingredient levels probably I wasnít clear enough. I meant that the industries more than likely know whatís bad (or good) themselves, but money is above anything, even health. So actually we agree that there should be rules, and I was wondering how it's possible people have to have regulations not to kill/harm others with food (do they eat the same things themselves?).

But 421, YOU do not need any rules for sure. :)
an increasingly sedentary population who are rapidly losing the life skills to grow cook and eat healthy food in a safe manner and in safe quantitiesnow, how much crazier can it get? Loosing the vital skills? But, being on top of the food chain... maybe the man has to have the destructive role as well? And produce "unhealthy rubbish masquerading as food". What kind of species are the humans to do that? No fox would eat a synthetic rabbit (fried and lots of salt), would they?
The parents don't drive or inspire their kids because they are under financial pressure, both work and barely have enough time to get home never mind play sport, cook meals and help with homework.well, financial pressures surely have been worse, maybe not for so many fancy things? That's where I totally agree with Worrals - one has to be really confident to ignore the lifestyle pressures imposed by media and advertising.
Which brings us back to the 'how much crazier can it get'-thing.

probes
7th Jan 2013, 05:35
homage I couldn't resist:
Black-White Calypso from Wait A Minim! (1966) - YouTube

Worrals in the wilds
7th Jan 2013, 07:18
I've known some country girls that didn't need any propoganda WITW!! Horse riding was fun....but not the most fun ride in town....especially when the country girls came to the coast!! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif
Did you win any blue ribbons? :E
Probes, I think that the trouble with this stuff is that it's easy. It's there. I reckon that our great grandmothers would have embraced the frozen meal trend with both hands, but they didn't have the option.

What kind of species are the humans to do that? No fox would eat a synthetic rabbit (fried and lots of salt), would they?
The question is whether there is a safe consumption level for this sort of food, and TBQH there probably is. Two or three takeaway meals a week hasn't been proven to do any long term damage to health or fitness. Apart from margarine and a couple of other exceptions the stuff is food, albeit overcooked, fatty and oversalted. Like alcohol, the problems start when people rely on them as a primary food group.

Tankertrashnav
7th Jan 2013, 09:11
Reynolds Number and Probes - Thanks for the words and the clip, My South African room mate at Seletar in 1967 had the LP and I haven't heard this song since then. I think Jeremy Taylor got chucked out by the SA government who weren't best pleased with his brand of satire. The present bunch could do with a black Taylor to send up their own shortcomings.

Fliegenmong
7th Jan 2013, 11:22
Did you win any blue ribbons?

Nah...not that I know of.....;)

reynoldsno1
7th Jan 2013, 20:43
TTN - I still have my LP :ok:

gingernut
7th Jan 2013, 22:02
It's a difficult one, and mulifactorial. And, an important public health issue.(Doom and gloom merchants reckon our kid's will die at an earlier age than us.)

I've always been of the opinion that it's more about unhealthy diet's, rather than unhealthy food's, but must say, whilst out shopping with the Mrs last week, it was easier to buy a cheeseburger than the best ever invented convenience food-a banana:)

Not sure if legislation is the answer though.

probes
9th Jan 2013, 08:14
- and looks like there's no hope anyway:
Understanding the 10 Most Destructive Human Behaviors | LiveScience (http://www.livescience.com/14152-destructive-human-behaviors-bad-habits.html)

Windy Militant
10th Jan 2013, 10:39
No fox would eat a synthetic rabbit (fried and lots of salt), would they?

Yup they do which is why we have a glut of urban Foxes. A colleague at work who is a serious nature lover has told me that in Didcot they have a problem with Red kites at one of the fried chicken chains. The kites hang around the car park and empty the bins, apparently some are too fat to fly!

There is apparently a genetic factor which means we as a species are attracted to fat and sugar. It goes back to the time we were hunter gatherers and never sure of when we would find food so anything with fat or sugar was an easy way to boost energy and store the same for when food was not available.

As most food suppliers are obsessed with profit margins then the easy way to make people want more is to include plenty of sugar and fat.
Add to this massive advertising and the more affluent and sedentary lifestyle these days and bingo.

Mind you when I was a lad the Beano and Dandy were forever showing mounds of bangers and mash, chocolates, jelly and cakes so who knows. :}

Worrals in the wilds
10th Jan 2013, 13:17
Fat and sugar are also really cheap. Same with corn meal.

radeng
10th Jan 2013, 14:22
Salt is something one can use a lot of, but not eat. To degorge an aubergine, for example - you wash the salt off afterwards. Otherwise, you need a teaspoon full for a 400 gram loaf of bread. I suppose it's because I use very little in the way of prepared food that I don't see a problem...Things like preserved anchovies wouldn't be preserved without salt, of course, but again, soak them in milk to get it out.

I would have thought that most people cook with fresh vegetables, fish and meat, although I do occasionally like a corned beef stew....

vulcanised
10th Jan 2013, 14:30
For my part, I find a lot of stuff has less taste with reduced salt content as is fashionable. Usually employ the shaker when cooking baked beans, for example.

radeng
10th Jan 2013, 14:33
I don't like baked beans, although about every 18 months, I'll soak the beans overnight and then cook them long and slow with some pork and tomato. The magic with beans cooked like that is good splash of dark rum added just before serving. None of these canned baked beans, though.

vulcanised
10th Jan 2013, 14:50
I thought they only grew in cans http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif