A hotel want's to use my photo's

[gingernut]

A hotel has contacted me as they wish to use some of my images on their website.

It's a hotel of repute (I know 'cos they charge £4.80 for a pint of lager!), and as far as I know, are not part of a chain.

My question is this, should I be happy to receive a credit, or should I charge? An if so, how much ?


mods, if this is seen as a commercial issue and breaches your rules please feel free to remove.

[mixture]

Unless you absolutely know you will be going back to that hotel on a future trip, I would take financial payment rather than any credit / voucher etc. (making sure you get payment before releasing the images obviously !)

How many images are they after ? What sort of resolution do you have them in ? Do they really only want them for the website ?

If they're really only after them for the website and nothing else (i.e won't be wanting to use them in a printed brochure further down the line), then they'll only need 72dpi low-res images (make sure you save them as such before sending !) and so you won't be able to ask that much for them..... somewhere between £25 - £50 an image depending on quantity required and quality of the image, they'd have to be something really special to go above £50 for a low-res website image (assuming they're not asking for an exclusive use license).

Remember, you can always negotiate down, but never up.... :cool:

(don't make it clear you're willing to negotiate, but if they start to umm and ahh.. then you could make a concession and drop a little).

[ShyTorque]

Why not offer them free use of your photos. On the proviso that in return, they give you free use of their hotel.

[mixture]

Why not offer them free use of your photos. On the proviso that in return, they give you free use of their hotel.

Heh... I can foresee their answer to that one. :)

Businesses tend to prefer definable transactions with an audit trail.

"free use of the hotel" would be a "handshake" style agreement that could easily be denied by members of staff other than the one who granted you the original handshake (and who may no longer be in employment there in the future).

Sure they could offer him a voucher or credit note.... but as I said, its only of use if he's sure going to be going back there within the validity term of said voucher. Otherwise its not worth anything, they might as well give him a blank piece of A4 paper.

[gingernut]

Thanks for the advice, I haven't actually stayed at the hotel, only drank ale there.(Southern fizzy stuff!) They've come across my images on "Redbubble," I think.

The images are taken with a Nikon D60 which is I think, about 10mp, but I've "dialed up" the film speed to iso1600 on some of the images though, to avoid camera shake when hand holding. This has resulted in some graininess, but actually adds to the effect. Some are cropped, but not dramatically

Staying at the hotel would be great, but actually my surfing 'van is just up the road, and has more home comforts. It sounds like fifty quid an image is a good starting point. (I'd be happy with that.)

I'm assuming the copyright remains with me?

[Spitoon]

I'm assuming the copyright remains with me?As I understand it, if you took the pics, then you 'own' the copyright. You can permit someone to use one or more of your photos subject to any conditions you like. You can also sell complete and total rights to use the photos in any way that they want to - I guess this is what would be called selling the copyright.

When you licence the use of your images it is probably best to try set out the limits of use as well as what they can use them for. There are numerous stories of images which started out on a web site and ended up in print and other media.

[mixture]

I'm assuming the copyright remains with me?

Pretty much what Spitoon said, copyright where what you decide it is.

Its a complex area, but you're probably after offering them something along the lines of granting them a "perpetual, non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicensable and royalty-free, worldwide right to display the images and derivitive works based on the images on their websites at a maximum resolution of 72dpi".

Basically they get what they want (pay you once for unlimited use forever on their websites with no need to advertise your name) but you retain the rights.

(Disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer applies ;-)

[mike-wsm]

May I suggest using an agent? He will have experience of the correct prices and contractual conditions.

Myself, I simply wouldn't get involved. I always make things freely available on a not-for-profit basis.

[mixture]

May I suggest using an agent? He will have experience of the correct prices and contractual conditions.

Normally I would agree about getting external guidance/help, but the problem here is:

(a) the agent will want to take commission (won't be any less than 10-15%), and for a small low-value transaction such as this (low resolution website images don't go for much), it will only eat into the small amount of money.

(b) unless gingernut is thinking of getting into photography as a regular little something on the side, I don't think an agent will be interested in what is potentially a "one-off".

Yes, there is the option of the "bottomfeeder" stock photography sites that anyone can post their images on.... but their rates are artificially low, so not really a good guidepost.

Rather than give them away for free, I would take the fact the hotel has approached him as a good sign that they are willing to engage in a discussion, and that I would not want to loose out on the opportunity for a little bit of petrol money,a little cash towards some camera accessories or whatever.

[gingernut]

Thanks for the guidance, it really is only for beer and kebab money, I'm not actually too bothered what they do with the image, I'm more concerned about continuing to flog (my own) ware's at Artisan Market's/craft fairs etc.

[mixture]

And at £4.50 a beer, sounds like you need a bit of a beer money top-up... :E

[Fly-by-Wife]

When advertising your wares, be advised that the incorrect employment of an apostrophe can make one look foolish, if not actually ignorant.

The plural does not require an apostrophe.

FBW

[gingernut]

thanks Fly-by-Wire, couldn't agree more. My wife takes care of the anal stuff, I can't be bovvered.

[unclenelli]

This sounds like a rare moment when the view of a trawling Paparazzo might be welcome.

[ExSp33db1rd]

My wife takes care of the anal stuff, I can't be bovvered.

Me 2 - and wel al b riting in txt soon enyway.

Copyright -definitely yours.

My dad was the High St photographer, and this came up many times. He would put portraits in the shop window but strictly speaking the copyright belonged to the customer - 'cos he had paid, and dad was in breach in putting a copy on public display, but most customers were chuffed at having been chosen as an example and none ever complained, in fact many asked to buy the enlargement when it was no longer needed -and were usually given it.

Occasionally dad would ask to photograph the new Mayor, in all his regalia, which he also used a shop window display, and in that case he owned the copyright because it had been a 'free' sitting, just as if he had stood at the side of the road and photographed the mayor walking by. ( at least, that was his story ! )

Sometimes paying customers would demand the negative of their image, from which prints were made. This dad refused,because although the copyright belonged to the customer, the negative belonged to him, and his profits were from the number of re-prints the customer ordered to give to his family and friends ( as one did in the days before digital cameras and the Internet )

As has been said, negotiate, but at the very least demand an acknowledgment - " photographs by .... " otherwise you could sue them for what they refused to negotiate with you !!! ( and best of luck with that !! )

[Gertrude the Wombat]

It sounds like fifty quid an image is a good starting point. (I'd be happy with that.)
I'd have said a hundred cash the lot (for however many they want) - same ball park. Or a hundred and fifty behind the bar?

(One way of working out the price is to find out how much you'd get if they used them without permission and you then sued - the court would essentially award you the going rate. But finding out the going rate would involve talking to an agent, and if they weren't a mate of yours they'd want paying more than it was worth for their advice ...)

If you ask for too much, of course, they'll simply pay someone else less to take the photos they want.

[OFSO]

I once offered a photo to a magazine, they wrote back saying they wanted it and enclosed a copyright form for one-off use of photograph for me to sign and return with the photo. This was MANY years ago, they paid me twenty-five quid, which I though very fair. But there is a standard procedure to be used in such cases. No need to go thru an agent, it will only cost you.

[Milo Minderbinder]

this should give some idea of freelance professional rates
Of course in this case the whole point is to undercut this, so the hotel saves money, while gingernut gets a few beer tokens

Freelance Fees Guide: Photography / Online use of photos (http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/index.php?&section=Photography&subsect=Online+use+of+photos)


As to the copyright issue - the photographer always retains the copyright of the photo, unless a contract exists to state otherwise. However in the case of a portrait the subject also retains copyright to his / her own image, meaning the photo can't be used without both photographer and subject agreeing. i.e. two copyrights exist - one for the photo, one for the sitters image
So the subject is protected against misuse of her image (unless a contractual release has been signed), while he/she cannot exploit the photographers work without agreement

[Evanelpus]

When advertising your wares, be advised that the incorrect employment of an apostrophe can make one look foolish, if not actually ignorant.

Too right, the difference between your **** and you're **** is considerable!

[mike-wsm]

Wow, I owe myself £42,500 for use of my pics on my website. Shall send myself an urgent demand to pay in full or else I shall seriously consider etc...

[Mike-Bracknell]

Speaking from the other half of my business writing websites for a living, i'd suggest you're looking at roughly £10 an image to be competitive whilst retaining copyright. Any more than that and they'd be able to buy or commission something from iStockphoto etc.

[mixture]

Speaking from the other half of my business writing websites for a living, i'd suggest you're looking at roughly £10 an image to be competitive whilst retaining copyright. Any more than that and they'd be able to buy or commission something from iStockphoto etc.

Mike,

You're rather missing the point.

Sure they could buy stock photos, but stock photos wouldn't illustrate their hotel. :cool:

Hence the higher rates I suggested.

[El Grifo]

60squid a pop and not a penny less :=

[gingernut]

thanks chap's am entering negotians tomorrow.

[jumpseater]

Charge what you like. If you took the image and were not photograping under another over riding contract, then you are the copyright holder.

Restrict the use by the hotel or give them unrestricted use and charge them accordingly, retain the copyright at all times and ensure that is stated in any contract. Make sure the contract is written, even if just an email exchange.

If they use them without permission you can follow that up legally for copyright infringement, in that case charge them at least double what you would have charged normal rate. If you don't know how much to pitch, start at £6/hr and work out how long it took to produce the image, and then add a bit on for mum.

[mad_jock]

"Redbubble,"

Is that some sort of ginger fetish site?

[gingernut]

How about photo's of people ( who have given verbal consent to having their photo taken, but not to it being sold).

[mixture]

How about photo's of people ( who have given verbal consent to having their photo taken, but not to it being sold).


Technically you need a model release when you're selling photos.

Some examples can be found here (http://www.professionalphotographer.co.uk/Magazine/Downloads/Model-Release-Form).

[gingernut]

thanks for that:ok:

[Davaar]

The plural does not require an apostrophe.


True; but why limit yourself to plurals? There is always the vexed topic of verbs. If ginger "wants" something, why write "want's"?

He'd (= "he would") be wise to have someone with at least a nodding acquaintance with grammar check all he writes. As he might put it, just a matter of negotian ...... Ooops! Don't we mean "negotiation"?

[vulcanised]

From what I have observed of Ginger's apostrophies over time, I would say he is best advised not to use them at all.

I have applied that reasoning to a number of his posts and found the grammatical standard is always improved.