Personal Locator Beacons

[Wanderin_dave]

I have searched, but found no real or recent answer.

If you were in the market for a PLB for GA use which would you buy?

[rjtjrt]

I personally feel only a plb WITH GPS is worth having, but you may have decided this already.
Secondly, I think it should be the smallest you can currently get, as it is best carried in the clothing so it is with the pilot at all times (hoping to grab it as you exit the crash is optomistic).
The 2 smallest seem to be:-
ResQLink 406 MHz GPS Personal Locator Beacon

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=144&item=74528&intAbsolutePage=1

and
McMurdo Fastfind 220 PLB (with GPS)

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=144&item=74538&intAbsolutePage=1

Skylines may be able to price match the above.

John

[Arm out the window]

I recently got a ResQLink for bushwalking, small, light (about the size of a mobile phone), GPS capability included, easy to use and, if its built in self test is anything to go by, works!

Battery good to 2016, and came as part of a special offer with a first aid kit, strobe and signal mirror, so all up I'm quite happy with it.

[Sunfish]

Gme plb in headphone bag. In the event of a forced landing passenger has instructions to turn it on put it back in bag and throw it out as we land.

[rjtjrt]

Note, ResQlink and ResQlink+ are different in one important respect. The + model is same but has built in boyancy, which changes the dimensions considerably (ie much bulkier and less pocket friendly).
John

[cam]

The GME PLB is excellent, but one that may be worth considering is the "Find me Spot" or spot Connect, just google them and get the full story. That seaplane that went down in Far North Queensland recently was using one, and he was located fairly quickly. Deceased unfortunately, but nontheless located fairly quickly.I travel the outback fairly extensively and carry both. On the find me spot there is 3 buttons of which 1 of these buttons you press on a set routine. The first button sends a message to a designated email address or up to 10 email addresses that opens up with a link to your position on google earth and says that you are OK. The middle button sends a message to the same designated email address advising that you are having problems, but are safe while the third button sends a message direct to AMSA with your GPS position. Mine lives on my belt,and if do not press one button every second hour my contact will call my sat phone 30 mins later to check if I am OK :ok:

[RadioSaigon]

...put it back in bag and throw it out as we land.

Why? Surely the whole idea of a Personal Locator beacon is to find the Person that cared enough to purchase it... rather than some bag at a random location along the way to a crash-site. I'm relatively confident that both you and your passenger would be found within fairly close proximity of the PLB, were it itself within spitting distance...

just a thought...

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Whilst 'Cams' post is quite informative and the 'Find me Spot' will do a number of things, I voted with my wallet and purchased the GME 410G PLB
as all I really want it to do, is yell out...here oi are...!! oVer 'ere...

'Horses for courses' and your needs....

Cheers:ok:

[Sunfish]

Saigon, I mean throw the bag out As last resort after we stop moving. In the worst case, at least they might then find the wreckage. My aim is to ensure that a functional plb survives the landing and it's possible aftermath.

I also carry my boat epirb on trips so effectively I have three.

Be aware that plbs don't transmit for as long as epirbs do.

Other things being equal, I' ve thought I would activate epirb exactly on expiration of sartime.

[Goat Whisperer]

+1 vote for GME's MT410G. The price has come come down substantially since I bought mine, but 7 yr battery life and cheap replacement had me. Only $369 now.

A two minute conversation with a rescue heli or Dornier pilot will convince you that the "G" is worth the few extra $.

Edit: found it online for A$305.

[VH-XXX]

Other things being equal, I' ve thought I would activate epirb exactly on expiration of sartime.

I don't see the point in this or what you actually mean. The beacon is coded to you anyway so if you are in trouble, turn it on and they will know who you are instantly. Why wait for a set time to turn it on?

I can see that throwing it out after impact is a good idea in case the aircraft burns so probably a good idea to get a small one and leave it on your person.

[cam]

I use the spot for tracking purposes during the trip,so that my office and family know where I am at all times but also carry the GME 410g as an extra insurance policy, because I can be in a plane or car depending on the reason for the trip

[Wanderin_dave]

Thanks for all the input everybody. Time to break out the wallet. :ok:

[Sunfish]

VH -XXX:


Quote:
Other things being equal, I' ve thought I would activate epirb exactly on expiration of sartime.

I don't see the point in this or what you actually mean. The beacon is coded to you anyway so if you are in trouble, turn it on and they will know who you are instantly. Why wait for a set time to turn it on?

I can see that throwing it out after impact is a good idea in case the aircraft burns so probably a good idea to get a small one and leave it on your person



XXX, while I hope this debate is purely academic and we never have to do it in anger

My thinking is as follows:

- my plb is coded to me, its AMSA registration says it may be with me in an aircraft, on a boat or in a four wheel drive. My boats epirb says likewise.

- the aircraft epirb is registered to the aircraft.

I am going to make a point of talking to the AMSA guys again at Avalon to understand the latest procedures, since I may well be wrong or out of date.

My understanding is that when an Epirb or Plb goes off, AMSA first makes enquiries using the register - it contacts the owner of the beacon, the aircraft if it can or the designated persons or organisation involved to see if it can confirm that the event is a false alarm.

I am not sure if a search would be mounted for a small aircraft immediately on receipt of an Epirb signal unless there is a record of a mayday call or the aircraft has past its sartime and the usual "ring around" hasn't produced any results.

In that case, given the battery life limits, If I was deep in the outback, I would like AMSA to already be wondering where I am when they hear the beacon go off, if practicable.

Agree whole heartedly with having a GPS in the unit, mine does, it reduces the response time according to AMSA.

Be careful if buying anything on line because the PLB/Epirb must be programmed with an AUSTRALIAN beacon code, so that the no matter where in the world the beacon goes off, the alert is electronically sent to AMSA who are the ones who have your details.

Please correct my no doubt faulty understanding, but all I'm saying is that in some circumstances it might be wise to think for a minute or two before you let off the Epirb or PLB.

[Old Akro]

EPIRBS are a bit like insurance. You don't know if you bought the right one until its too late! I think the best you can do is buy a good brand and one that fits conveniently wherever you want to put it. I voted with my feet & bought the GME one. I have a LOT of GME stuff and its always served me well.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, the issue I have never been able to decide about (despite a lot of reading) is fixed ELT vs PLB / EPIRB.

[Sunfish]

Akro:

[QUOTEAt the risk of hijacking the thread, the issue I have never been able to decide about (despite a lot of reading) is fixed ELT vs PLB / EPIRB[/QUOTE]

On my last outback tours I've had all three. I figure that assuming I am alive after an accident or failure there is a good chance I will have one of them in working order. The boat EPIRB goes in my gear bag, the PLB in the headphone bag.

I;m told Canadian float pilots favour a flyfishing waistcoat "survival pack" on the basis that they may only have what they are wearing after an accident.

[Tankengine]

I keep my GME PLB on my parachute harness so it is with me even if I exit the glider. I would activate it straight away. As it is the gps version asma will have your lat/long straight away and start proceedings. I would not be worried about battery life. Spots are great to let people know in general where you are, and if someone is watching may lead them close to you even if you cannot activate the SOS function. However there is an annual fee.

[Mach E Avelli]

My Sonex is powered by a Jabiru engine - not known for great reliability. If it quits in flight, the only checks I can do is ensure that I have not knocked the ignition switches off and pull the carb heat on. Though if it is shaking and vibrating badly enough, or chucking oil all over the windscreen, neither of the two afore-mentioned actions are likely to be of any use. In which case proceed direct to 'next action' below, as first action!
Next action: activate the GPS enabled PLB which sits on the passenger seat. If I do pull off a successful forced landing, I can always cancel it if need be. If the worst happens and we burn, at least AMSA will have had a signal, track and position for enough time to consider matters. A bit academic, I know....
Chucking it out of the aeroplane is not something that I would consider unless I had a back up.

[rjtjrt]

Mach
I don't know that any useful signal will be transmitted by a 406 GPS plb on the way down.
The GPS in the plb has never been turned on before. It has no idea of date, time or which hemisphere it is in. So it will be a totally cold search for satellites (ie if it only knew date and time and hemisphere, it knows which satellites should be visible and thus looks for those first).
It is akin to the well known problem of Garmin x96's that have lost charge in small internal battery, a cold start takes many minutes to achieve sufficient satellites to get a GPS position.
I hope I am wrong in this, and stand to be corrected.
John

[Mach E Avelli]

I should have mentioned that it is GME MT 410G Accusat 406 and 121.5 and is registered with AMSA, so I am led to believe that it will give all the required info. If not, I want my money back!

[onemore]

The specs for your GPS acquisition times are pretty much as per this guide
So I wouldn't be to concerned. Any gps requires a small amount of time to start up
http://www.gme.net.au/public/pdf/brochures/plb_epirb_b.pdf

The cospas system doesnt allow for the immediate transmission of position data anyway to ensure a GPS has found its real location - so there will also be a few minutes of delay anyway.

The beacon will transmit its unique code from the first transmission though so your registration details will be transmitted - it won't wait till it gets your gps position - so you don't need to get your money back :)

[tistisnot]

For any of the SAR boys out there ......

Which is the best signal / homing device you prefer to "see" to be assured of rescuing several and possibly widely spread passengers in the sea in poor visibilty if all were carrying any of these devices?

SAR T, 121.5 homer, 406?, strobe, streamer, smoke ......

How does person in water (not life-raft) ensure good signal - attach to life-vest / head, or floating device?

[werbil]

I'd say this Australian made PLBs selected by AMSA (http://www.mysailing.com.au/news/amsa-selects-australian-made-gme-plbs) is management's answer.

[Edition12]

In my SAR experience, going back a little ways, obviously the best thing is an EPIRB/PLB. From an operator perspective type doesn't really matter - RCC will provide a lat/long from the GPS or triangulation, then the rescue aircraft will home on the 121.5. But following that, a heliograph (signalling mirror) is your best friend. Not so good in poor weather, admittedly, but it can't break, it's waterproof, it doesn't need batteries and I've personally spotted them at something like 12nm and heard of people seeing them from much further than that.

In poor weather, flares and bright clothing are your best bet. As for beacon placement, I'm sorry but I don't know; however in the water my understanding is it's not crucial. Different story on land - spent quite a long time trying to home to a beacon in remote NT - we ended up finding the persons in distress from their heliograph in the end. The EPIRB was on the floor of their aluminium dinghy and between a little terrain masking and that, it made DFing it hard work.

[Deaf]

Homing is helpful but the key difference between GPS/Non GPS is time. Crudely minutes to hours.

Initial 406 transmission is (instant) mostly picked up first time id'd and AUSSAR hit the phones. By the time this procedure is followed the GPS has locked on and they have a position (3 sec lat, long say 130m) within a few minutes. Without GPS they will get the 5nm doppler position in hopefully within 3 hours.

[Fred Gassit]

A beacon in the water should ideally float UPRIGHT.

Most PLBs/ELTs float, but any which way, generally on their sides. The homing signal from a beacon in this position can be severely attenuated, I have sat over the top of beacons in these positions and they have been nearly impossible to home to with something less than a 5nm range signal and heavily lobed at that. Throw in any sort of sea state to regularly block out what signal there is and you can be working very hard to home those last few hundred meters, a head in the water is a dismally small target regardless of how good the Lat/Long initially supplied is. (which is usually excellent)

An EPIRB (marine) is best if you think an in water scenario is likely, they float upright and boom out a great homing signal.

Next best would probably any beacon attached to life jacket so the antenna is out of the water, guys that mess around with RC boats would know how important this is.

The question about multiple targets in the water is a good one. Lots of beacons in the water can create a sonic blancmange, it's a scenario I know has been mulled over by offshore energy companies and there is good knowledge in AMSA on potential/existing technologies, it is well worth asking them.

My personal summation would be, for an in water scenario, rescue is improbable without a beacon, too small a target, far too much water.

With a beacon, regardless of type, location is highly likely. Do the rescuers a favour by having your antenna out of the water as best you can, sea dye works very well in a moderate sea state, smoke markers are quite short range and generally very short lived, mirrors are great if you know how to use them.

[peterc005]

I did some research of the options a couple of years ago and bought the GME unit with a GPS.

Can't really comment if it's good or bad because I've never had to use it.

It is very small and light so I can just carry it in my nav bag. It seems to meet all of the requirements and is not very expensive. I'd recommend it.