Fake Hours

[negativeclimb]

I need of your opinion regarding this kind of "problem" which affects some people.

I was talking not to much time ago with a guy who falsified his hours in order to get his actual job in asianland. After his "theory" regarding the autorities that don't check the logbooks, I am now in a situation very frustrating and angry 'cause he got a job declaring uncorrect stuffs and probably will do it again to join in other and more prestigious asian and sandpit companies.

We are talking about hundreds hours near a thousand not few peanuts!!!

what to do? smashing his face or saying this story to the autorities?
I will go for te second one, this kind of people don't deserves a sit in a cockpit!

[The Dominican]

Turn that rat bastard in and make sure you pick your friends better next time. Assholes like that should die a slow and painful death.:mad:

Sorry that I don't express what I really want to say since I have to respect the PPRUNE forum parameters for posting, if not I would be telling you what you should do with that #%^*==*{*%#}#^^**:mad:

[MDT06]

You have to turn him in. He deserves more than that, but it is the least you could do, and the right thing to do.

MDT06

[gerago]

Tip of the iceberg. With the proliferation of flight simulator computer programmes and easy access to a lot of aviation softwares and websites, a slick con artist can easily make it through the hoops. I know of a few blokes who made it onto the 744 using on line manuals and videos which their relatives passed on to them. Many years go you can buy 744 and 737 as well a A320 sim preparation videos from advertisers on the ALPA magazine.

[captjns]

This miscreant will gettagged by prospective legitimate employers that desire certified log books from flight schools, as well as previous employers.


Folks that conductinterviews are able to find out those prevaricators early on during the selectionprocess.

[JammedStab]

Knew a guy who completed a captain checkout but was still flying as an FO for about 90 % of his flights for quite a while. Told me he was logging it all as PIC. I guess so as he always had 4 bars on while in the right seat so he must have been in command. He certainly acted that way.

Based on the fact that whenever I got my logbook certified, they just stamped it without a detailed examination, I suspect the same happened with him.

Apparently he has moved on, not sure where yet but it must have worked for him.

[benjaavpilot]

How can one do this?
i mean he is concient that he was move up the ladder by faking his experience..
he should be caught and given a ramp rat job!!!

:\

[PilotWA123]

Don't telL me he/she is an Indian... There's lots of news abt fake Indian pilot licenses and hours...

[pepsBDX33]

Hi NegClimb ,

Got the same example for a guy from here , our "glorious" Europe ... Got a job in a sandpit well known company as a young cadet but strangely hours which came from nowhere ...
The only thing i can say is that is low performance if defo obvious in the sim and will not fool the instructor , but the fact is here he got the job and i have to get wet here for few month until i rech their high minimums ...

Sure thing is : our mouth is clean not their and trust me the boomerang is always coming back !

Happy landings
Merry Christmas guys

[sim01]

Most definately from India as flew there before with some so called HOT SHOT F/O's , just completed the type rating and cleared to line with 3 months ON LINE and claim to have more than 800 hours ON TYPE , also noticed their log books after a flight where they DEMAND that you sign their log book and you notice that at least 45 minutes have been added onto the times and as P2US even though they never touched the controls and you wonder why they can't fly or land at all
Before I forget , just released to line with almost no hours to speak of and they DEMAND to be addressed as CAPTAIN .
Standard crew briefing to Indian F/O's " IS YOUR FAKE LICENSE VALID "
It's a disgrace to aviation that this is going on

[Dagar]

Absolutely wrong sim01.I have flown as an expat in India and before anyone stamps the logbook,the hours are verified and certified by competent authority and it is only than that a mgmt.pilot stamps and signs the log.I flew with a lot of competent first officers in India so plz.stop spreading rumours and work on your brief(Standard crew briefing to Indian F/O's " IS YOUR FAKE LICENSE VALID "
).You are lucky that a first officer did not smash your face for giving such an unprofessional brief(maybe your Indian FO was too professional and courteous)

[contractpilot69]

Reading these sort of posts stirs up strong emotions in me. It grieves me to accept that such practices plague a job that was once regarded as the most noble profession.

I know of 250 hour type-rated guys who have passed a 'white envelope' under the table of various airlines' recruitment depts to score the RHS. 'Cos of 'em, the honest and more deserving lads out there have to sit it out on the bench...

On the brighter side, Merry Christmas to one and all!

[Akali Dal]

PilotWA123
*
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 24
Ridiculous
Don't telL me he/she is an Indian... There's lots of news abt fake Indian pilot licenses and hours...

Injuns?
The greatest fakers of hours, flight experience are aussies! Ask those guys at Korean Air. They had a certain bill, related to runner kathy freeman, cheating up the A300-600 as skipper when only as f/o, then the sheepshagger mikey daily etc.

After the 1989 fiasco, most of the miscreants from the arse end of the globe fanned out into the third world and conned the poor airlines over there. In SEAsian, in Africa, in central Asia taking advantage of poor oversight to fake hours, experience and aircraft ratings.

[rovespier]

NegClimb it sounds like a completely madeup story, fishing information and reactions so you can try it yourself.....
Even the smallest airline in India or Thailand (like previous posts mention) has a telephone, and someone can call your last school-employer-whatever and verify how experienced you came in there and after how long you came out.
Don't do it pal

[Flappo]

I´m fully agree with rovespier...

[datogu al MONA]

Ha ha ha, that haughty arrogant piece of work from ozzie land. Heard he conned KAL into a position as 747 classic and then got upgraded onto the 744. He, ricky PNG, bill freewheelie ....Well people like maui and jon freaksome know about it but kept quiet to protect own countrymen.

So guys, don't talk about outing these miscreants...when it is your own countrymen, none of you fellas will do it. When billy freely was sacked then only guys started to whisper about knowing his con jobs at SIA, then Kuwaiti, then KAL and finally he is sitting pretty at VA...sheesh. Cut the crap and bull****!

[KAL__Aviator]

Regardless of the intent, no one should ever try the fake hours stunt. And if you do discover one, you should, as a responsible individual, report the matter to the authority, anonymous or otherwise.
As for KAL, apparently the fakers did have a good run in days when no one wanted to join airline. Although in recent times, it would be near impossible to secure any gig with them. If your previous carrier/employer had gone belly up, KAL will call the licensing authority to verify your hours and status. And if that still doesn't add up, they will give you the sack. We know of at least 2 cases in last couple of years, one was whistle blown when he was already cleared line flying, and the other during OE and was terminated immediately.
Lesson to learn, get your paperwork in order. Like I did before I was furloughed. You can't be too careful when it comes to backing up your previous experience.

[Check Airman]

If you're certain of it, expose him not only to the CAA, but his employer. Those who abuse the honour system should not be allowed to utilize it.

[treykule]

Odd, that no one has mentionedthese types of pilots are a danger in the cockpit.

It is more than being an unethical rat bastard. It is about not having the experience and when things dont go as planned being unable to cope.....

if someone is faking 1000 hours or so and that represents a big chunk of their real time,,,it is time to get them off the flight deck, for the safety of the public..They may be able to push buttons just fine, Sometimes things go a bit abnormal..And it is a bad time to only have experience at Parker penning a logbook.


Get him out...maybe it will stand as a deterrent to others. And make certain that the regulator in the country that issued his license is notified. It is typically a rather serious issue with regulators.

[billboard]

Don't telL me he/she is an Indian... There's lots of news abt fake Indian pilot licenses and hours...


On a personal level we all have an idea of the amount of false logging that takes place in different parts of the world. The fact that when people try to do it India, they get caught and it makes news gives a fair idea of how things are done here. To pretend that false logging does not happen in any of the major aviation markets is fallacious.

Negativeclimb, you would do justice to the profession if you report this guy to the authorities. If you don't, then you have actually ended up advertising on this forum that people can get away with it.

just completed the type rating and cleared to line with 3 months ON LINE and claim to have more than 800 hours ON TYPE

Did YOU report any of these guys to the authorities?

at least 45 minutes have been added onto the times and as P2US even though they never touched the controls and you wonder why they can't fly or land at all
Standard crew briefing to Indian F/O's " IS YOUR FAKE LICENSE VALID "



Instead of lying, why don't you tell us the real reason for your hatred? Maybe you DID actually ask an Indian FO, " IS YOUR FAKE LICENSE VALID " and then found it hard to stop the rectal bleeding. Ouchie!??:}

[rovespier]

The "authorities" (as you guys are referring to) are not responsible for your logbook and hours, they merely do a general check of the total when you declare your hours on every successive LPC. They cannot -and are not supposed to- check if you logged your PICUS as PIC or all your flight as PIC when you were acting as a F/O. They cannot check if you have added up incorrectly the totals on every page, or if you have added 15 minutes (by mistake) on a night total.
This is each pilot's responsibility, and even if you do log everything correctly, sometimes you apply to an airline governed by different rules (JCAB for ex) and they count them differently, so your log gets audited and you can explain all the differences. Thats it, and its not called fake hours. Experienced WB captains log their whole augmented crew flight as PIC when for some other regulator this is not supposed to be so.

Now, if you just got your T/R and after 3 months you present 1000 logged on this type, or you log PIC on a jet without having a PIC endorsement on your license, then someone had better notice!! And if they don't then they shouldn't be doing screenings, just open up a door and hire everyone that walks in first.

Our friend NegativeClimb is probably lying, and if not, he is referring to light aircraft hour logging that is not really important in the real airline world.
Nobody cares if you have 1250 instead of 250 in a C-152 just because you could afford the package. The higher the total in your log, the more important the quality of hours in it.
So don't make a big issue out of a rather childish post, it concerns entry level positions only.
Correct me if I am wrong

[Calvin Hops]

Ha ha ha, that haughty arrogant piece of work from ozzie land. Heard he conned KAL into a position as 747 classic and then got upgraded onto the 744. He, ricky PNG, bill freewheelie ....Well people like maui and jon freaksome know about it but kept quiet to protect own countrymen.

Well freaksome was billy freewheelie's sim partner during 777 training! So how can he dob his buddy? Maui was in audit, lambasting the koreans for protecting their pilots for bad practices! Yet he turned a blind eye to the parker penned command hours of his countrymen ricky,sheepshaggy, billy freewheely, etc. What hypocrisy. Freaksome was assistant CP, adviser this and that, all the time helping con artists getting a foothold in KAL. Recently a few got caught but there are many others who got away with it. How about halftrack or halfback who parker penned his " swiss air hours"; well he dropped the " swiss air " thingy when a former swiss air guy called him out.

I remembered someone asking that vital question but got no decent answer: will the insurance companies refuse to pay in case of an accident whereby the pilot/plots were later found to have faked hours/ licences/ experience in the course of their thorough investigations?

[USMCProbe]

The contract world is definitely the wild wild west of pilot quals. Both Asian carriers i flew for seemed to do a pretty good job filtering out the chaff during line training. Good, but probably not perfect. The high dollars promised in China really brought out the chaff. This subject comes up every now and then on PPRUNE. I am always shocked that their are a few pilots who defend fakers. Any pilot that defends one, is fake himself. No pilot that spent 5-35 years of time and effort to become a real pilot would defend some douchebag Parker Penned Hero. PERIOD.