Chasing the Bizjet dream

[Biggles266]

Hi all,

I'm looking to to get into Corporate Aviation and I understand a hell of a lot of it is who you know and being in the right place at the right time.

However I was hoping some of you out there in the Corporate World may be able to shed some light on the industry. Particularly the state of the industry around the world in places like the US, Asia, the UAE and Australia. And where would be best to aim to get into the Bizjet world?

Happy for both public replies and PMs and any further info you may have that I may have forgotten to address.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and all that jazz!!

[redsnail]

How much experience do you have?
Licences?
Family?
Nationality? Passport(s)?

[Flying Mechanic]

Get yourself a jet job first, probably easier to get an airline job, then make the move to corp. yes corporate is more who you know, so start making contacts. I always always advise, go and knock on doors, it works.

[1Bingo]

Corporate aviation is very network-centric. Ability to fly the airplane is one thing, personality is just as important. If you are a social door knob, you will not be asked to go along.

The previous recommendation to fly airline first is good as it provides good training, structure, stability and time building. If you walk in the corporate door with no experience, your success will probably be a result of knowing someone or being very lucky.

Good luck - Bingo

[Bucket]

Any flying jobs requires the skils we all learnt during training. I do not see there is any fundamental difference between leaving ATP training and going to the airlines or securing a biz jet job and there are many out of the major flight schools who have done both.

The latter option does require a bit more luck and knowing people in the right place. It is safe to take it for granted that you can fly a plane so a biz jet operator is looking for someone who is presentable, discreet, polite, flexible and generally prepared to get their hands dirty and muck in and not be a complete Norman down route.

Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...

[mutt]

Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...
Why not?

Mutt

[Doodlebug]

Shshsh, Mutt! :E

[Globally Challenged]

As a proportion of the jobs, I suspect the financial terms (especially given the amount of work we end up doing) are substantially better than the airlines.

[Deep and fast]

The airline boys have totally :mad: their back yard and are running to bizjets to escape?

[Tugnut]

After 5 years in corporate, I actually ran to the airlines to get away from it. Packages can be very good but depends heavily on who you fly for and of course what you're flying. As stated above, network and speak to lots of people. Best of luck.

[His dudeness]

Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...

Right, I would hate to be underpaid like some airliners are....

[NuName]

Well 2 LOW, I guess we won't have to hold our collective breath waiting for you to join our ranks then. Now that could be a blessing in dsiguise. You must be another self opinionated individual that does not make him (or her) self aware of the current safety statistics. First post? nice one. Of course, all the airlines are top quality offering top jobs with top pay :ugh:

[windypops]

Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...

I take home quite a bit more than friends of mine who work in the airlines, folks with similar experience levels to me. As has been said it all depends on who you work for though.

[Biggles266]

Thanks for all the replies and advice, hugely appreciated!!

Just for a bit of background on myself I have an Australian passport, CPL, MECIR and currently studying my final ATPL exam however I only finished my flight training 12 months ago so still only low houred.

However I have already started meeting people and begun to build a network as at this stage of my career it's about as much that I am aware of that I can do to try and get a foot in the door within the corporate sector.

From what I have come across it seems to be quite an enclosed area of the industry.

[Mister Warning]

Especially in Oz. :{

[Pace]

Biggles

It is a very Clicky section of aviation and the pilots are very protective of their positions.

Low hours??? The other problem you may encounter is insurance requirements.

Crazy because how does a low time pilot get the turbine hours to meet the insurance requirements if no one will insure that pilot in the first place?

Very often those insurance requirements are encouraged by the Pilot/Operator for self protectionism.

I once flew a Seneca Five twin where a number of suitable pilots were used under the control of a guy operating and managing the aircraft.
He did not want some young guy with 100 hrs multi time poaching the aircraft at half the pilot rates so fixed a 500 hr multi requirement under the veil of reducing insurance costs for the owner :E Great for us with more than 500 hrs multi but ????

As others have said this sector of aviation is more about networking and getting someone to like you enough that they take you on board.
You also have to make sure you are available and reliable.

Cannot fly because the girlfriend has put her foot down and demanded the weekend as happened with one young pilot I know of means your gone!!!

Pace

[redsnail]

Biggles, it's very rare in Oz for a low houred pilot to get a jet job - especially in such a small industry like bizjets.
Most head out "up North" to get some hours and more importantly, experience before moving to twins and turbines. Crucial for networking too.

[fade to grey]

Ive done both. My observations are, do not overlook the following :
- theres more tact and forlock tugging required in corporate , which sometimes undermines the authority of the capt
- whilst some private owned aircraft offer massive salaries you are just a pawn at the mercy of the owner/ board
- roster ? No, expect permanent standby in some outfits
- there are some right nutcase shoulder chipped weirdos in corporate who wouldnt last in airlines

All things being equal, its the airlines for me.

[500 above]

- there are some right nutcase shoulder chipped weirdos in corporate who wouldnt last in airlines

That has to work both ways...

[BigNumber]

I would observe that even in the economic down turn salary levels have remained reasonably robust.

P1 rates Euro's seem to be ( in Europe ):

Light Jet 55,000 - 60,000 Euro's Gross
Mid Size 65,000 - 80,000 Euro's Gross

What would appear to have been lost is attractive rosters.. Most of us are continuously on a pager now ready to drop everything at a moments notice. There is nothing to say as jobs continue to be scarce sadly.

[Kelly Hopper]

[QUOTE]there are some right nutcase shoulder chipped weirdos in corporate who wouldnt last in airlines/QUOTE] :D

And boy have I met them! :eek:

[EllanVannin]

A few people have talked about moving from the airlines to the biz jet world. This is something I am interested in doing but I am a bit stuck for how to go about it. I would be very grateful if someone could offer some tips/advice/contact details etc that would point me in the right direction.

Thanks very much.

[Mister Warning]

If you are currently flying an airliner type, you may be best advised to target private operators flying the same or similar type as opposed to changing from airliner to biz jet. That way your currency and experience will be relevant. To go from B747 to G IV may not be as easy as to say BBJ....
Anyway, worked for me and couldn't be happier in my private 345. :ok:

[LindbergB767]

question for Mutt
seems you know a lot about GA and VIP aviation
what would be the chance to get a VIP commuting job on medium to large jet aircraft
with a total time of 22500 of which 16000 are as Captain on DC8 B757 B767 B7374 and B7378. Have valid Canadian and FAA ATPL plus 3 more not valid (medical and OPC)
Been flying all over and have very good references
For sure I was flying charter on smaller aircraft for several years (long time ago)and Charter on DC8 and B757
Just finishing a contract now and looking for something
Thank s

[Flying Mechanic]

There's some BBj jobs right now in china.

[LindbergB767]

Thank s for your reply BBJ but China is only good from 55 to 60 years old maximum
as well as Vietnam

[bizjetsurprise]

A fellow crew member in US once said to me while we were sitting round in a US FBO for hours waiting for the jet owner to let us know where we were off to next that day: A corporate pilot survives on a diet of coffee, FBO unhealthy snacks and Total Uncertainty. Working on the aircraft was exactly like that, but there are better ones sometimes.

[mutt]

question for Mutt Sorry, just saw this..... Lindberg, google Midroc Middle East Jobs, they are seeking senior management guy for their heavy metal VIP fleet. Might be your sort of thing.


Mutt