QF Ek Green Light

[Mstr Caution]

I note the Minister for Transport Anthony Albanese will be travelling on the inaugural QF flight to Dubai on Sunday.

Gee. Lucky the alliance was approved in time.

[denabol]

That explains the ridiculous statement the minister made that Ben jumped on.

Who misled the Minister Albanese over Qantas-Emirates? | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/03/27/who-misled-the-minister-albanese-over-qantas-emirates/)

The Flying Kangaroo has a special place in the heart of all Australians and this is good news for Australian travellers and the Australian economy.


The Qantas-Emirates alliance means that Qantas, the flying kangaroo invoked with such affection by the minister, has cut off Australians using Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth airports from using Qantas flights to London, and is instead trying to punt them onto Emirates flights.
Does the minister imagine that those travellers will not feel regret, in their hearts, that Qantas has dropped them from being able to fly all the way to London on Qantas aircraft?
Does the minister realise that when foreign business travellers now fly from their capitals in Europe or the UK to Perth, our resource capital, or Brisbane, the rising giant among eastern cities, or Adelaide, the defence capital of Australia, they-won’t-be-able-to-even-choose-to-fly Qantas?
Our national carrier wants them to fly Emirates, a national-carrier-of-the-UAE.
Could the Minister explain how making Qantas even smaller in the international market than it has already made itself this century, is actually going to make Australians value their iconic airline even more, even as it continues to disappear?


Watching the doco on reporter murders in Russia a while back I think the sort of journos they kill are like Ben. Rude bastards that tell it like it is.

[Captain Dart]

TIM is right. There are lots of heroes in QANTAS.

[Keg]

Snafu, don't know who's going to be in the lead. Two ex Mirage drivers at the controls of the respective aeroplanes though.

It is only three days until our inaugural flights to Dubai. To celebrate the launch, and our partnership with Emirates, we will be conducting a joint flyover of Sydney this Sunday with a Qantas and an Emirates A380. The aircraft will take off at approximately 9.20am and hold near Long Reef before passing over the Opera House at 10.30am.

Although events like this seem easy to arrange, there has been a lot of careful planning and preparation over many months to make this happen. The flyover is a great way to promote our partnership with Emirates to the world.

If you're around the city on Sunday then enjoy the show.

I refuse to buy into the discussion that the celebration of Jesus' resurrection on Easter Sunday will also mark the 'resurrection' of the Qantas international business and brand. :ok: :E

[C441]

I refuse to buy into the discussion that the celebration of Jesus' resurrection on Easter Sunday will also mark the 'resurrection' of the Qantas international business and brand.

Nah Keg, you're missing the much bigger picture.
Alan chose to commence the tie-up on Easter Sunday for the greater world good. Given the Emirates airline and region is culturally associated with the Muslim faith (as demonstrated by the hysterical proclamations about the dangers of even transitting Dubai), Alan will soon be declaring that it was very important that the initial flights commence on such a Holy day in the Christian faith as a pre-cursor to World Peace!! :rolleyes:

[GlobalMaster]

Agree WirthWhat, is no reason Sporting Bets would pay out on‘passing the deal as it was'
Yesterday’s decision has reduced the scope of what QF/EK can do and no undoubtedly put off for another day long term strategy underpinning today’s celebrations.

How much credit the ALAEA and Peter Somerville can take is not clear. However, that Qantas can now clip the price of its European tickets, add capacity in Asia and continue to rely on the Sale Act to protect its future interest in any QF/EK Joint Venture in Asia, will keep licenced engineers and their association in the game for many years yet.

I say again, well done Peter Somerville, et.al. You guys obviously saw what was on the radar. You should have been a pilot. :ok:

[donpizmeov]

I don't think QF had much say in the start date. 1st April is the start of the EK Financial year. It just keeps EKs the paperwork tidy.
Seems like only a decade and a bit ago EK and QF codeshared. I flew to my interview in DXB on EK with a QF ticket. It seems the balance of power in the agreement might be a bit different this time though.

Farewell EK staff travel.

The Don

[Derfred]

Agreeing with yourself again WorthWhat?

[Bypass ratio]

So as a Captain in Emirates, we're only entitled to an economy class ticket on QF according to the TC Email today??

[Capt_SNAFU]

S**& I was having a laugh. Didn't think they would do a flypast.

[ramius315]

Bypass,

You're Grade 9+ so you get J class.

[Bypass ratio]

On HR it says my grade is FD.07 ??

[ramius315]

Yes, but that's a Flight Deck grade, TC has referenced the management grades. (ie grade 8 and above.)

FD06 (an FO) is equivalent to a Management grade 9 from memory. (I can't remember where the reference is, but in order to get Education Support allowance, and car loan you have to be 9+)

Cheers

[Bypass ratio]

Ok. Thank you

[TIMA9X]

by Denabol - I'm keen to support Qantas but it seems to do everything possible to make me choose a different airline when family members to Europe or Asia, including a daughter who has to fly to Asia around six times a year. I've taken to Virgin for the few Australia flights I do, but some of us fly a lot, and Qantas has just lost the plot. I share the same opinion as Denabol I am also confronted with the same problem..

I think Ben Sandilands highlights Denabols observations today... in response to a sneaky good Friday press release from Qantas which stretches the truth somewhat...


Qantas-Emirates and 'stuff you' Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/03/29/qantas-emirates-and-stuff-you-brisbane-adelaide-and-perth/)
For a national flag carrier its treatment of these cities in terms of business and tourism links to the rest of the world is a disgrace, compounded no doubt for some ejected Qantas supporters in those cities by handing over vital links to Emirates as part of the new business relationship that starts on Sunday.
Not that there is anything wrong with Emirates, which is a great supporter of tourism to the parts of Australia Qantas neglects, but telling customers to fly on a non-Australian carrier, when you are the Australian carrier, is both arrogant and an invitation for them to fly Singapore Airlines instead, which is also a great supporter of tourism across all of our fair country.
Earlier today Qantas put out a press release, shown in full at the end of this post, which for some inexplicable reason, other than the ritual pro forma Singaporean approval for the Qantas-Emirates partnership, chose to highlight the benefits of the Qantas-Emirates relationship between Singapore and Brisbane and Singapore and Melbourne.
The weird bit is the reference to how Qantas in increasing its dedicated seats to Singapore by 40% but now offering two non-stop flights daily on each of these routes between Australia and Singapore comprising a two class service in a Qantas A330-300 and a three class service in an Emirates Boeing 777-300ER. (If you want to fly first class Qantas is punting the usual customers, who are governmental VIPs, and very wealthy corporate customers or individuals, into the Emirates flight, but they could exercise choice and fly Singapore Airlines, and get Virgin points too.)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-q_m7xdAphg8/UVUSpgsqeGI/AAAAAAAAAnE/ypaSs28xImo/s766/001-Qemirates-on-CCS.jpg

[Twin Beech]

Adjunct to all of this a letter arrived yesterday from QF. Well, a glossy scratch n sniff card promoting the code share and inviting the recipient to scratch to see if it was one of the free 'golden tickets' to Dubai.

I wish to hell that Qantas would put me on their adult mailing list. First the scroll...a piece of insulting excrement beyond belief, now this cynical exercise in loyalty buying. My card went unscratched into the season's first open fire. I sure hope that unscratched panel isn't toxic, but then again what from them isn't?

Every time they insult me this way I find another notch on the hate scale to ratchet to, and seek yet one more way to punish them for it. Arseholes.

[Qantas 787]

The golden ticket..........laughable. It is clear they could rig it to send it to certain people. Anything that is addressed personally can be rigged.

[Keg]

I thought 'whatever' when I got the letter but using it as a reason to ratchet up the 'hate levels'? Some perspective may be needed. Misguided as they are I'm not sure that's a reason to waste effort and energy on hating them? There are far more productive ways of expending energy than on hating anyone else for anything. Pity is about as far as I'm prepared to go and even that isn't worth it. :ok:

[Twin Beech]

Hate is my default position Keg. It takes no energy at all. Hate, and sarcastic hyperbole. You take things too literally. What are you? A pilot or something?

Twin Beech
Powered by high octane Vitriol

[Conductor]

So as a Captain in Emirates, we're only entitled to an economy class ticket on QF according to the TC Email today??

Why on earth would you want any ticket on Qantas? It doesn't go anywhere.

[Twin Beech]

On the other hand he may want a non-stop service straight to hell.

[Beer Baron]

He may want to take his kids in Business Class.

[donpizmeov]

Beer Baron he can take his kids into J class on EK. Its only 1st Bypass can't take them into.
I am sure he is just trying to arrange travel to a non EK A380 destination after his arrival into OZ. Those 777s are just too slow, bumpy and noisy.:E

The Don

[TIMA9X]

TB, No point being angry with Keg, at least the management are showing signs of trying to engage, as it turns out, you burnt your scratchie, I presume a few others may have had similar thoughts.

With all that cr*p everyone has been through the last few years at least it is a step in the right direction... there is a good chance the scratchies may have put a smile on a few faces

At the end of the day, the airline business worldwide is under huge pressure, dog fights everywhere and who knows what will happen in 6 months time? It's probably one of the most frustrating business's on earth, everybody gets in on the act, governments, lawyers, bean counters, security, more bean counters, more political types and equivalents in slightly cheaper suits... oh yeah, of course there are the people who fly, serve and maintain the a/c.

For me, it's all ended up in reverse, these days the suits appear to consider themselves more important than the operational staff, not all of them think like this but their hands are tied by the people in the expensive suits who throw the decision dice, whatever numbers they land on, we got to live with it until the current dice throwers move on.

One of the messages over the last three years from a certain CEO has been "people don't like change," well whether they do or don't it has been decided, so on Easter Sunday if you want to do the hop to London on Qantas it's via DXB, end of story.
Deep down, I hope this new strategy rakes in millions in profit (proves me wrong) and Qantas International is returned (as promised) to its glory days it rightfully deserves, a well respected International airline. In many ways it still is, thanks to the hard work from the operational staff. The guys n girls working in domestic do a sterling job holding the fort.


I note the Minister for Transport Anthony Albanese will be travelling on the inaugural QF flight to Dubai on Sunday.
Gee. Lucky the alliance was approved in time. I reckon there was a bit of a fun celebration staff party last Thursday, all very pleased with themselves after the ACCC formalities where complete. For Albo, "it's away we go now" we all knew that Ablo would be one of the list, it's the way it always worked.

Albo, the minister for everything since the last reshuffle and frankly the only ministers name I can remember, there's been so many of them! Expect in the mail soon, "who's the minister for what?" scratchie competition.

.

[Keg]

Is Richard De Cresp flying the first QF 380 to Dubai?


No, star men for the flights out of SYD and MEL. One star man out of DXB. I don't know the other dude.

For the flights out of LHR, these are just line drivers. They'll be heavy crewed because these guys went up via Singapore. All the flights DXB-LHR are currently planned two man crew.

[OnceBitten]

No, star men for the flights out of SYD and MEL. One star man out of DXB. I don't know the other dude.

Star men comment will be a bit lost here Keg, everyone here other than a pure line pilot has a star, Not just senior management pilots as in Qantas. Every training flight here has a "star" operating on it, being at a training meeting would be like being lost in the constellation. :p

[B772]

Rumour has it the advance QF loads DXB-LHR-DXB are very poor to the extent comment has been made that DXB-LHR-DXB may no longer be viable financially.

[standard unit]

Rumour has it the advance QF loads DXB-LHR-DXB are very poor to the extent comment has been made that DXB-LHR-DXB may no longer be viable financially.

Only a matter of when.

[OnceBitten]

Even with 5 380 operating to Heathrow we still don't have enough seats. Do you really think Emirates are going to allow the opportunity to fill two extra 380s with passengers out of Dubai to Heathrow with EK flight numbers go by do you???

[astroboy55]

a random selection of both services on staff travel shows high load factors

[donpizmeov]

Good one Astro. Ruining another hysterical rumour with facts. :ok:

The Don

[ampclamp]

I had a look at a few dates and the loads were appallingly low.

[Fuel-Off]

Well when you look at dates ending in 2020...yeah, loads are gonna be low! :E

What dates were you looking at amp? Wouldn't mind a quick visit to London, getting sloshed in J of course :D

Fuel-Off :ok:

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Qantas Airways Ltd. (QAN), Australia’s largest carrier, said bookings for trips to Europe have gone up six-fold as its first flight in partnership with Emirates Airline took off today.

Bookings to Europe on the joint network in the first nine weeks of sales have risen six-fold from a year earlier, Alan Joyce, chief executive officer of Sydney-based Qantas, said today in an e-mailed statement

Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-31/qantas-europe-bookings-up-6-fold-as-emirates-alliance-takes-off.html)

[booglaboy]

U miss the point. Those bookings are not on qantas metal. It's clever mis- information or mis-representation

[ampclamp]

Fuel off, nah mate,:hmm: not 2020 ;) I've checked a few at random over the last couple of days for travel next month between Dubai / LHR and return and some have over 300 hundred seats available.Some about 100. I'm sure there are good and bad days but the ones I have looked at are open. I'm sure it will build up if the word is good and the deals are OK.
Now I have no real idea whose metal (or plastic) the punters would be flying on but they have QF flt numbers.

[DirectAnywhere]

If it's QF1/2 or 9/10 it's QF. Anything else is EK. That means almost everything

[Angle of Attack]

A 4 or 5 hour sit in Dubai at midnight to wait for an emirates connector doesn't sound appealing for me. London was always pretty full but now with the option to connect through with Emirates I wouldn't be surprised if the loads are lighter, either way its still early days, stuff has to bed down, wonder. If the will retime the QF flights though? And while they are at it put a flight on from Brissy, (dreaming) maybe a 787? Damn with all the other airlines out of Brissy these days surely an A380 daily would be nice......OK I just came out of my dream, SIA it is out of BNE from now on.... :)

[Angle of Attack]

Yeah I know but in the mega cramped 777's, maybe QF will do it one day.... :)

[denabol]

Stuff about new Qantas routes coming through on Australian Business Traveller and Plane Talking I see.
Qantas tips first Boeing 787 routes: Beijing, Hong Kong, India - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller (http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-tips-first-boeing-787-routes-beijing-hong-kong-india?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper)

Qantas new route plans: reading between the lines | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/03/31/qantas-new-route-plans-reading-between-the-lines/)

Issues arising? Given that Mumbai and Beijing non-stop have nothing to do with the the Dubai hub at the focus of the Emirates partnership what other new non-partnership routes might it be considering? And if they are not necessarily going to be flown with 787-9s, the only other jet suitable for those routes that Qantas can get its hands on which fits them efficiently would be A330-200s, since the future of its dwindling 747 fleet looks very short term for cost reasons if nothing else.
Qantas has lost most of is capacity to do the heavier maintenance that comes with aging jets, and the rest of the hemisphere has too, in that the MRO facilities available are far more attuned to newer jets, and as some have rather tartly noted, it shows.


Also a earlier critique on Plane Talkng.
Qantas takes off with Emirates, shrugs off former customers | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/03/31/qantas-takes-off-with-emirates-shrugs-off-former-customers/)

Emirates doesn’t bring anything to Qantas. It takes from Qantas, perhaps more rapidly than it has in the past, and this time, it gets it for free.



And the ACCC mystery docos?

Last week the ACCC rejected the core arguments (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/03/27/accc-didnt-give-qantas-emirates-deal-a-ringing-endorsement/) Qantas made as to its international operations being a ‘failing business’ and related claims about cost disadvantages forcing it off various routes.
The ACCC came to those conclusions after calling for additional documentation from Qantas early this month, and it appeared to know exactly what it wanted to examine, even though there is no conceivable way that it will ever breach the confidentiality which is integral to its deliberations.

What stuns me is that the interstate media in WA, SA and QLD seems to be taking the pineapple up the rectum as people say on this forum.

[haughtney1]

Yeah I know but in the mega cramped 777's, maybe QF will do it one day....


It amazes me the comments on here about EK/QF, lots of vitriol.."I'll never do this again, fly with them..etc etc" and yet every sector I operate into and out of OZ is bloody near chockablock, and 80% of my EK sectors are DXB-OZ. I did one DXB-PER trip where we had about a 50% load in Y, but J was 100% and F was 80%.
Some of you on here have to accept that it's the customer who is going to benefit, they ultimately pay our salaries..and our careers live or die by their approval or otherwise, and this deal is awesome for the average Oz punter.

[ampclamp]

I would suggest the people of QLD , WA and SA have already moved on to other carriers. They still have a major domestic presence of course and that is where the money is at present.

[Angle of Attack]

did one DXB-PER trip where we had about a 50% load in Y, but J was 100% and F was 80%.

Yeah it's not vitriol but you basically just justified my comment! Y class was half empty because it is a nightmare on the 777's! All we are asking is QF flights to Europe out of QLD, SA and WA, it's not that hard. Emirates is OK but it's still another middle eastern Airline, I'd rather fly on QF and even Delta round the other way. Well OK maybe not Delta... :)

[PPRuNeUser0198]

If it's QF1/2 or 9/10 it's QF. Anything else is EK. That means almost everything

That does not matter. If the consumer books the codeshare flight number, regardless that travel is on EK metal, the Qantas will benefit from the revenue.

Point is, sales have increase by some 3-400% - that's customers booking "Qantas" to Europe.

So that's good for Qantas - since improved revenues will support the turn-around for Qantas International.

[DirectAnywhere]

I know. I don't really give a rat's either way as I sit on more assigned leave and watch my career go down the pisser. The statement was in response to amp clamps question in post 289.

"Now I have no real idea whose metal (or plastic) the punters would be flying on but they have QF flt numbers."

[haughtney1]

Yeah it's not vitriol but you basically just justified my comment! Y class was half empty because it is a nightmare on the 777's! All we are asking is QF flights to Europe out of QLD, SA and WA, it's not that hard. Emirates is OK but it's still another middle eastern Airline, I'd rather fly on QF and even Delta round the other way. Well OK maybe not Delta...

Fair enough AOA, not directed at you specifically...just your words...:ok:
As for the space in the 777 in Y, can't tell the difference in the seat between that and the 180... having flown as a pax in Y on both in the last 10 days, certainly the isle is wider in the 380..which makes a difference to some I guess.
My little girl prefers the 777 though...cos daddy drives them:}

[booglaboy]

You can't have an International airline with zero destinations or airframes to support it. None of this is a 'turn-around' for Qf international

[Capetonian]

Two-plane flyover marks Qantas partnership (http://www.smh.com.au/business/twoplane-flyover-marks-qantas-partnership-20130331-2h151.html)

QF seem to think it's a success.

http://images.smh.com.au/2013/03/31/4153864/MOR-20qantas-20wide-20house-20130331144041156354-620x349.jpg
http://images.smh.com.au/2013/03/31/4153863/MOR-20qantas-20wide-20bridge-20130331144005285614-620x349.jpg

[ramius315]

EK seat pitch-

777-300ER: 34"
380: 32-34"

SeatGuru Seat Map Emirates Boeing 777-300ER 3-Class (773) (http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Emirates_Airlines/Emirates_Airlines_Boeing_777-300ER_3class.php)

[PPRuNeUser0198]

You can't have an International airline with zero destinations or airframes to support it. None of this is a 'turn-around' for Qf international

So are you saying Qantas does not operate to any international destinations with its own metal?

[TIMA9X]

some interesting coverage, views & news clips generated from the event over the weekend, for those who missed it..


sMQB0LGYF9c

[kiwiandrew]

surprised that no one has commented on the fact that in most of the air to air photos the EK A380 seems to be 'on top'. A symbol of how this deal will work?

[ampclamp]

I was waiting for it andrew. Above but behind, or below but in front ? Could be construed either way.

[Taildragger67]

Possibly, but maybe also where the pilot flying the EK aircraft could best see the lead (QF) aircraft in the formation, whilst maintaining an element of vertical separation?

[ampclamp]

tail dragger I am sure safety of flight was the major, if not the only factor . 2 rather large aircraft would make an awful mess if something went wrong.

[HotPete]

I'm sure lots of us would like to hear from any knowledgeable QF driver about yesterday's flyover.
For example:
- what time did each aircraft take off?
- where were they when they "formated"?
- what altitude/separation?
- were they RPT passenger-carrying?
Pete

[crewmeal]

Loved the bit where Mr Clarke says the 2 carriers are "stitched" I think he means QF has been "stitched up"

I didn't realise Joyce was such a little man. That group photo in the video demonstrates one thing though he has a big mouth!

[Wedcue]

Lots of us?

Yeah naah.

[ampclamp]

No RPT pax on board. Just big wigs, pollies and a few staff afaik.

[Keg]

You'll find answers to many of your questions here (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA6600/history/20130330/2220Z/YSSY/YSSY).

Other bits I can think of. Pushed back just prior to 10am. They formed up off the coast at north head. 1500' was the lower limit I think. I have no idea about separation.

Both PICs were ex Mirage drivers- one RAAF, the other Dutch I think. Beyond that don't know much.

[Keg]

Got a message from a colleague in QF who seems to have a bit of gen:

QF Chief Pilot (Domestic) had been give the regulatory approval for the planning and go ahead from CASA - it was him who gave the final go ahead. The PIC of the Emirates 380 was the fleet captain for emirates - according to QF DOM CP he had another guy with him who was an ex Belgium or Dutch fighter guy with the formation endorsement. The actual separation was 200' vertical (the emirates 380 being higher and behind - think wake turbulence) and 4 wings lateral.The maneouvre was flown with the autopilot in "track" mode - I assume that is not dissimilar to Boeing hdg mode.

[smiling monkey]

A video of the formation .. nice

LGHW9KIu-_A

[Derfred]

pretty poor formation!

[haughtney1]

Sleeping Dogs and all that? (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/dont-waste-members-funds-challenging-qantas-emirates-alliance-twu-told/story-e6frg95x-1226610864427)

[TIMA9X]

Independent Senator for South Australia, Nick Xenophon, has asked the Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce and the chairman of the competition regulator, the ACCC, Rod Sims, to respond to or clarify a set of public interest concerns about the authorisartion of the Qantas-Emirates partnership.
They relate to the ACCC rejecting some of the arguments advanced by Qantas in recent years concerning its long haul business being a failing enterprise.
This is the letter to Mr Joyce.
Xenophon letters to Qantas, ACCC over Emirates released | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/04/04/xenophon-letters-to-qantas-accc-over-emirates-released/)

Respectfully, may I suggest at you as the CEO of Qantas, in light of such matters, have an obligation to state publically that Qantas international:


is not in “terminal decline”;
can compete and operate profitably;
does not suffer from “material structural disadvantages”;
that the employment of Australian based Qantas International employees is not at risk, and;
that the decision to ground the Qantas fleet was, with the benefit of hindsight, questionable.
I would be grateful for a response to the matters raised within 10 days.

Yours sincerely
NICK XENOPHON
Anyway, it appears it was quite a party for the chosen few in Dubai after the game changer launch flight to LHR via Dubai last Sunday.

It's not always a case of what goes on the plane, stays on the plane for the glitterati of the aviation world. At a gala dinner for the launch of Qantas' union with Emirates, MC and Collingwood Football Club president Eddie ''Everywhere'' McGuire reflected on why he was not on the ''party plane'' from Sydney to Dubai on Sunday, as Emirates president Tim Clark and federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese remembered the launch flight with much fondness.
''It was a very happy flight, ladies and gentlemen,'' Clark told about 700 guests in a giant tent at resort Atlantis on Dubai's artificial island, The Palm.
Albo called a toast and pointed out that ''many of you on the flight last night would have had plenty of practice [charging glasses]''.
It was a very Australian night in Dubai. Singer Jessica Mauboy did a few numbers while Kerri-Anne Kennerley saved one for last.
Advertisement
But it was disco queen Gloria Gaynor who brought the crowd, including Qantas boss Alan Joyce, to its feet. Qantas chief spinner Olivia Wirth and union boss partner Paul Howes soaked up the vibes, as did senior Qantas executives Simon Hickey and Lyell Strambi, top federal transport bureaucrat Mike Mrdak, former Liberal MP Bruce Baird and chef Neil Perry. Qantas' happy flights of fancy (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-happy-flights-of-fancy-20130402-2h537.html)

[dragon man]

George Orwell and his book 1984 come to mind, and i think he said we are all equal its just that some are more equal than others. If my memory serves me correctly it was the pigs he was refering to which in light of this is very appropriate for all and sundry on that aircraft.

[ampclamp]

Anyone spot what could be construed as a conflict of interests in that guest list?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Anyway, it appears it was quite a party for the chosen few in Dubai after the game changer launch flight to LHR via Dubai last Sunday.

The game nearly changed on the way home. Hearing that OQA just out of Dubai dropped all green system hydraulics. Call through to Engineering from control along the lines of -

"Subsequently it's lost grd steering so will need a tow in - please keep it low key, we don't want emergency services chasing them down the runway".

Green hyd is the only system that opens the cargo doors. Nobody explained to the special people why it took nearly 2 hours to get their bags off.

[Sunfish]

Word is that EK approached Qantas and Alan bit hard.

Qantas, as I forecast, is now changing or has already changed the class baggage limits and frequent flyer program policies to match EK's.

Watch as the rest of Qantas "harmonizes" its systems and policies to match EK.

After that, the "economies of scale" argument is trotted out and some Qantas staff are transferred into EK departments.

The remaining Qantas staff are made redundant.

Qantas is now a business name of EK in Australia and flies the Pacific.

At some point the shareholders will be put out of their misery.

[AEROMEDIC]

At some point the shareholders will be put out of their misery.

I don't think that this will happen Sunfish, as it would be a gross breach of the board's fiduciary duty (once again).

It's probably true that Joyce and the board had to give away more than they planned to in the last 20 minutes prior to the press announcement in order to get the agreement over the line, but was it too much?

Institutional investors may intervene if things became too one sided, wouldn't you think?

[Sunfish]

Aeromedic:

Institutional investors may intervene if things became too one sided, wouldn't you think?

No I don't think they will intervene. The instituional investors will receive a presentation from Qantas and Emirates for a new investment vehicle that they will accept. Everything legal and above board.

Of course by then Qantas will have been "hollowed out" and they will be faced with the awful truth that Qantas is totally dependent on EK for its very existence.

I note today that Qantas has announced it won't be offering pork on any of its European flights in response to Islamic sensitivities.

To put that in context, you will not see EK change anything to "accomodate" Qantas, which should lead you to understand that this is not a partnership of equals.

Dixon and Singleton realised this in a microsecond when the deal was announced, took their ball and went home with a tidy little profit.

[Bad Adventures]

You might want to check the share price when they sold compared to it now. You'll find the boys blew their load just a little bit early! :)

[ampclamp]

Depends where they moved the money. I doubt it is sitting in a savings account.

EDIT: WTF! no more bacon or ham?! What a load of bulldust. :mad:

[hadagutfull]

The next thing to go will be " Spirit of Australia" due to the word spirit being associated with alcohol...
But it does not matter, the spirit was lost long ago...
As for the menu, what about a thing called choice? Choose not to eat the pork or alcohol infused food... Keep it separated in a separate cart FFS!
I'm all for religious freedom , but not when it's enforced and in my face.
YOU choose your religion, I'LL choose what I want to eat.
And respect each others choices... Just give people the option to choose.

[neville_nobody]

Then it will be Arabic language 1st English 2nd, no mention of Christmas or Easter, Arabic signage, ...etc etc.

Great win for EK, an airline they haven't sunk a cent into complying with all their Arab customs.:D

[haughtney1]

Then it will be Arabic language 1st English 2nd, no mention of Christmas or Easter, Arabic signage, ...etc etc.

NN, you mean just like last weekend? when passengers were wished an enjoyable Good Friday and a happy Easter holiday? (honestly..there is some drivel on here around the periphery of the subject)
And just to put the pork comment in context..do QF offer shark fin soup out of CGK, or HKG, or perhaps Whale soup out of NRT? (ok mayby it's pornstar that go to NRT now) :E

[Ken Borough]

when passengers were wished an enjoyable Good Friday and a happy Easter holiday

How bloody ignorant can some people be? Why would a Christian, on Christianity's most sacred and solemn day, be wished an "enjoyable Good Friday."?

Maybe this should be discussed in Jet Blast?

[neville_nobody]

Correct Ken it should be happy passover, I'm sure an Arab airline will fully endorse that idea :}

[TIMA9X]

Maybe this should be discussed in Jet Blast? Can't help yourself KB, if you don't like something in what appears to be typical management style, close it down?


Only Qantas current management could launch a "game saving" new partnership with an Arab airline on Easter Sunday with the inaugural flight arriving on April fools day! :E There is a funny side to all this. .. heard this joke a few times from people working in the industry, some well heeled SLFs.

EK who have agreed to the partnership should also be mindful of the cultural sensitivities that many traditional QF passengers may share that are not in line with Arab thinking.

For me, the partnership is a little lopsided in favour of EK and it is good that all Q operational people be aware of this. Only time will tell whether the new partnership is working or not.

Say for example it doesn't work, of course Qantas management have a contingency plan, or will it be just simply panic.... and embrace Asia again... oh that's right, they are doing that already....:rolleyes:

[Taildragger67]

So if pork is banned, why is alcohol not banned?

I mean, both are banned in Islam, so if one is allowed, should not both be allowed? Or banned?

Further, what proportion of passengers on Australia services (on EK and / or QF) are Muslim (or more specifically, Muslim not originating in the GCC)? If a minority, then surely those people are mature enough to refuse to order pork products (just as they doubtless refuse alcohol).

The parallel is drawn with what is offered on Asia services - but they are additions, not withdrawals.

No problem with a mezze plate being offered (as a choice), but for breakfast, I'll have a sausage or bacon with my eggs, thanks. The chap next to me would like the other choice, foule with pitta bread. :ok:

[TIMA9X]

I love my pork. But I have never missed eating it when on an Emirates flight.spot on! same here, by enlarge it's still beef or Chicken and/or noodles not that I think about this as a reason to fly via Asia instead of the Gulf to LHR. I prefer via Asia as this is where my established business connections are and will remain. From what I am hearing, there appears to be many who feel the same as I do.
by Ex A380 Hundreds of thousands of Aussies have travelled on EK, and the majority seem to like it. (The load factors out of OZ seem to indicate so.) Good point, I suppose a couple more daily QF A380 rotations via DXB won't flood the market even though the momentum is still overwhelmingly via Asia to Europe, as I said before, time will tell.

[OnceBitten]

So if pork is banned, why is alcohol not banned?

I mean, both are banned in Islam, so if one is allowed, should not both be allowed? Or banned?

Another ill informed comment.

Alcohol isn't banned by Islam, it is it's effect that is against the principles of islam. Which can then be interpreted to suit ones cause.

Whats the old saying? Drink responsibly.

[Ultergra]

QF and EL merge.

QF cut pork from the menu. This is to better align QF with EK values.

Why don't EK START serving pork...? It goes both way.

We are a multicultural society, EK tied up with us as much as we did with them, I don't understand why we always have to bow down to other cultures. What about ours? Its balanced. We live in harmony.

But wait, if they adopted our way of life then we would probably be labelled as racist for not respecting their way of life.

Im sorry QF, epic fail.

[haughtney1]

How bloody ignorant can some people be? Why would a Christian, on Christianity's most sacred and solemn day, be wished an "enjoyable Good Friday."?

Because to most people these days Christians included, Good Friday is a holiday like any other ostensibly, but it's a pain because everything is shut....
Perhaps Ken you'd be happier if the Christian dominated world shut down completely on Good Friday? or better yet we all went to church and said 50 hail Mary's to repent our sins?????
Honestly, if you could find offence Ken..you'd probably want the gate as well :ugh:

And seriously you lot are worried about pork? what a bunch of whinging little girls....

[Ultergra]

Qantas is an internationally recognised company that many would associate with being Australian.

It is showing more respect to EK rather than to its foundations of an Australian Airline.

To cut pork from a menu has a representation that if I voice, I will be called a racist or just another bogan Aussie from the Shire.

As I have said, we are a multicultural society, or so it has been shoved down our throats for years. Are we not meant to be this shinning example to the world that we can all live together in harmony? It would appear its worth nothing. My point is, we all live together, and just because I have pork in my fridge, doesn't mean my neighbour has to flippen eat it!!!

Perhaps their culture could learn a thing or two from us, our multicultural way of life. It should be celebrated, not forced to change to adapt to a single way of life.

If Qantas was so passionate about not offending other religions, then they would have cut pork from the menu of all flights associated with the worlds largest population of Muslims: Indonesia.

[ampclamp]

Haughtney I just think it is ridiculous that any religious doctrine that has nothing to do with me and many other travelers is being used to dictate what I can and cannot eat and drink. and I dont give a toss whether its christians muslims jews or hindus. it has taken centuries to get from under the yoke of overt christian doctrine only to pander to those cultures that are less tolerant.

[Chock]

Correct me if Im wrong but Im sure that no airline operating to the middle east serves pork.

Also, EK has changed it menu. It now features 2 QF sandwiches. One in First and one in J class. But it does look like a Subway.

[TIMA9X]

We are a multicultural societyIn my view, to the credit of Qantas, Qantas International is a leader in Australian business for embarrassing multiculturalism, no doubt that. I have experienced this many times recently on the A330 ex BKK/SYD run, some extremely talented multi language FAs who were also very good at their jobs.

I think regular pax/crew would agree, there is an increasing sense of calm (which I term as "internationalism") within the various cabins on long haul flights these days, most of the time people just fit in, no matter which airline you are flying. It's when you get back to earth the fun starts again.

Sometimes 39,000 ft is a nicer place... pork or no pork... :)



wAyZU9nCd7U

[Keg]

If Qantas was so passionate about not offending other religions, then they would have cut pork from the menu of all flights associated with the worlds largest population of Muslims: Indonesia.


I think they did that long ago!

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Qantas not offering pork on certain markets is nothing new.

Qantas hasn't offered pork to Jakarta for years...

No Arabic airline to the Middle East offers pork, nor does Malaysian to Kuala Lumpur...

[scandistralian]

Stress less fellas, after your journey you are welcome to indulge in a host of pork dishes at a number of hotels and leisure oulets in Dubai, can you really not survive without pork for 14 hours?

[Tidbinbilla]

I can see where, by the tone of the past few posts - this thread is heading.

Get my 'drift' ?

[Plazbot]

Having lived in both OZ and Dubai, Dubai is FAR more multicultural than OZ. Everybody is from somewhere else. And don't worry, there is plenty of delicious swine once you get here. The pork belly at Safron at Atlantis on the Palm brunch is the best I have ever had.

To counter the thread drift, how much holding gas are Qantas turning up with? With the runway works fast approaching delays will be quite extensive. What are they planning as an alternate? Emirates seem to use OMAL for the 380. Is it the same?

[DirectAnywhere]

The QF fuel policy doesn't carry an alternate for anywhere else under those conditions so I would consider it highly unlikely there is a different policy for Dubai ops. Having said that, they should have enough fuel on arrival for OMAL and OMAA at least but that tends to be a quirk of the policy rather than deliberate planning.

[SOPS]

Just thinking the same thing Ex A380, we held for nearly an hour last night! ( or this morning, depending on how you look at it::E)

[Jetstarpilot]

Just declare a fuel emerg.... LH pussies:mad:

[maggot]

I think auh is the preferred with an 'arrival allowance' proffered as holding gas, my mate reckoned they had 18ish o/head on his plan and landed with 16ish in good wx

[moa999]

As to the other 'pork' thread.

The OP, and a lot of posters on Facebook may want to look at QF catering on routes to Jakarta and Bali over many years...

It's called cultural sensitivity and to be honest I think we can all live without bacon for a 6-18hr flight!

Qantas for many years has served different meals and indeed different alcohol (eg sake on Japanese routes) for these very reasons...

[Flying Spag Monster]

Bacon....I love bacon but on my flights between Oz and Dubai on EK I enjoy, Barramundi, steak, meat pies even....and an awesome collection of Ozzie reds. I would say EK make a "concession" to the Australian culture and no pork is a small price....

[SOPS]

The pies are awsome....and although steak is the best, try the chicken and veg as well...also great!!!!:ok:

[givemewings]

Cutting pork is probably les about offense and more about logistics.. I would guess there would be way too much red tape involved in 'importing' pork items in aircraft stores as well as its disposal, since pork would render all aircraft waste to be treated and disposed of as mixed...

You can order MOML on QF (and EK, if codesharing) however since EK catering (food wise) is halal those MOML never show up, they get regular meals... I reckon if they could have QF would stick with letting people order the MOML, but is probably just easier to make everything on these flight halal, as others have mentioned they do on CGK flights... the amount of special meals ordered for Muslims probably makes it impractical to cater these (much like they now have an Asian veg option on the N. America flights since so many are ordered)

Back to the main subject... any crew on nightstop been arrested yet?? ;)

[framer]

Yes. One QF mainline 2nd Officer was arrested while out for his morning walk. He made the mistake of pointing with his index finger, this is considered very very offensive in the UAE. The correct protocol is to either point with your thumb or with your whole hand. If you use your whole hand the palm should be facing downwards.
The incident resulted in the return flight being delayed 8 hours until another crew member could replace him. The punishment for pointing with your index finger is to have it chopped off in the town square as a lesson to anyone else contemplating doing the same. As it turns out the 2nd Officer was in charge of transmitting " Yer on guaaaard mate" for the return flight and without his index finger was unable to comply with the QF 0.8 milli second response time SOP.
The law of unintended consequences is coming home to bite Allen big time on this QF/EK tie up.
Framer.