View Full Version : Albanese Stops Curfew Expansion At SYD

19th Dec 2012, 05:08
Yet he allows people with Biz Jets in during curfew? Shouldn't they be banned to? A GV or Global can't be much quieter than a 737 or 320, surely.

Either way the Sydney Airport Circus rolls on.........

Easing airport curfew can reap $300 million | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/easing-airport-curfew-can-reap-300-million/story-e6freuy9-1226539979117)

RELAXING Sydney Airport's curfew by just two hours in the evening could boost the state's economy by almost $300 million.

An analysis of overnight flights in and out of Melbourne Airport - which does not have a curfew - shows almost 70 per cent of all departures and arrivals take place between 11pm and 1am.

A breakdown of arrivals over the past week found 64 scheduled passenger flights between 11pm and 1am while just 14 flights were scheduled over the next five hours.

Departures showed a similar pattern with 60 flights scheduled between 11pm and 1am, with another 30 flights taking off during the rest of the early morning hours.

Melbourne Airport's curfew-free status allowed it to handle an extra two million passengers a year - who added $590 million to the Victorian economy.

According to the federal government's latest international visitor survey, each tourist spends almost $2000 on a trip to Sydney, slightly less than in Melbourne, meaning if Sydney could capture a similar number of flights between 11pm and 1am the state's economy would receive a $300 million boost.

Airport curfew 'damaging tourism'

THE terminals at Sydney Airport are a ghost town while its international rivals allow aircraft to land through the night, an analysis reveals.
Cutting curfew is major key

THE regulations restricting Sydney Airport could be wound back to allow twice as many planes to take off and land late at night and in the early morning, under a new plan to extend its life.

Premier Barry O'Farrell last week called on the federal government to ease restrictions on flights operating during the curfew's shoulder periods of 11pm to midnight and 5am to 6am.

Under Mr O'Farrell's plan, the curfew restrictions would be eased back to 1995 levels, which allowed for 14 flights per week during the evening shoulder and up to 35 per week in the early morning period.

The plan was swiftly shot down by federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese, whose electorate of Grayndler is underneath the airport's flight path.

Mr Albanese has ruled out changes to the movement cap or the curfew at Kingsford-Smith and is awaiting the findings of a scoping study into the feasibility of building a new facility at Wilton on Sydney's southwest fringe.

Strategic Aviation Solutions analyst Neil Hansford said few people wanted to fly in the middle of the night and easing the curfew until 1am would deliver huge benefits. "If it's based on science then you would ease the curfew - as long it was restricted to planes taking off on the long runway over Botany Bay and restricted to the quietest aircraft," he said.

"There's an argument it's difficult to manage flights if you're only operating one runway, but as Melbourne shows there are not many flights and it is possible.

19th Dec 2012, 06:00
Why would he or his useless government start listening to the majority on any matter now?


19th Dec 2012, 06:05
Of course Albaweasel would step on it, he holds the an electorate on the boundary. The actual position of it should preclude him from holding the position of Transport minister, real conflict of interest. Who was that other time-serving party hack that held it for Labor before him? And the Libs probably won't do anything about it while in power, either, in case it cruels any hope they have of winning the electorate. Current margin enjoyed by Labor? If the conservatives win power back at the next Federal election, they should show some balls on this.

19th Dec 2012, 06:39
Division of Grayndler (http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2004/guide/gray.htm)

Interesting to read that after pre-selection in 1996 and "winning despite a high profile campaign by No Aircraft Noise" (winning 13.61% of the primary vote), NAN don't appear to have contested the seat since. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Division_of_Grayndler_2010.png

19th Dec 2012, 07:05
Yet he allows people with Biz Jets in during curfew? Shouldn't they be banned to? A GV or Global can't be much quieter than a 737 or 320, surely.

Would that include two BBJ that make a small little hop?

19th Dec 2012, 08:24
Don't forget it was the coalition that legislated the cap, so don't expect a Federal L/NP government to change the numbers.
On this one, no political party can be expected to have the courage to legislate change ---- or build a second Sydney airport.
Tootle pip!!

29th Dec 2012, 20:53
Leadie you are correct the Sydney Airport Demand Management Act was enacted under the coalition.

This Act involved a lot of trade-offs and no-one got what they wanted. For example Marrickville Town Hall were very opposed to the third runway and if I remember correctly were pushing for a movement cap of something like 55 movements per hour, yet industry was pressing for something like 110. In the end we got 80.

However the deal was done whilst the Keating Government was in power and was a culmination of a well organised and at times bitter campaign by Marrickville Town Hall led by then Mayor Barry Cotter, a number of very influential Labour politicians including Laurie Brereton (Federal Minister for Transport at the time), Andrew Refshauge (Deputy Premier at the time) and many others, (note that Carmel Tebbutt, Anthony Albanese's wife, was Deputy Mayor of Marrickville during this period, although I don't specifically recall her being one of the voices) over the third runway.

The Sydney Airport Demand Management Act, and the Howard Governments "support" for the Sydney Airport Curfew Act (which was legislated under Keating in 1995), were deals that had been already done and would have been near impossible to undo at the time...

And although the Sydney Airport Demand Management Act was enacted when the coalition were in power, I think it is a bit of a stretch to apportion responsibility to them. This legislation was very much a child of the Labour Party.

Mind you On this one, no political party can be expected to have the courage to legislate change sadly you are probably right!

29th Dec 2012, 22:13
Those two BBJ's rarely do anything in curfew. But there are other bizjets that almost only come in curfew.

It's such a waste to have this curfew in place. Infrastructure just sitting there, imagine also the expansion to our public transport as a necessity to deal with a more 24hr city, more jobs (oh hey labor party, that sounds nice), and of course less hassles for crew. If you moved near the airport surely the noise is expected. Was for my family, long before any of us were involved in aviation

Frank Arouet
30th Dec 2012, 09:05
The BBJ's should land at Richmond or Williamtown and the pax driven to their final destinations. Better still, put them on a train with the plebs.

30th Dec 2012, 11:29
Keep the curfew with slightly better leeways for diverted/delayed aircraft
(eg. allow an airline 5% of flights a year within 1 hr shoulder without massive fines)

but dump the hourly cap during operating hours

Al E. Vator
30th Dec 2012, 15:39
Perhaps more to it than meets the eye.
The state Conservative government is actually ( stupidly) against a much-needed second airport, instead advocating expanding Canberra (how daft is that) and extra flights at Sydney via curfew extension.
This may at least put further pressure on them to rethink their myopic short-term thinking. Not that Labour seem any more capable of truly handling the issue of he pressing need for a new airport.

30th Dec 2012, 20:56
Yes Canberra is another naive politically expedient suggestion.

However it cannot hurt to keep building pressure with your elected representatives to modify the Sydney Airport Demand Management Act, or the movement cap!

There is after all a greater appreciation today of the economic impact, and a glimmer of political will.

The fact that the opponents to the third runway were able to couple noise & movements when this legislation was negotiated was unfortunate.

The curfew is going to stay and it is a fight we cannot win.... except maybe pushing for some concessions in the 11:00pm to 12:00am shoulder to recover aircraft following say a day of extreme weather.

However I feel increasing the hourly movement cap from 80 to 100 is potentially a winnable battle. Although we would probably need to retain the 80 movement restriction during the curfew shoulder periods to help sell the changes.

In building the argument with our politicians we need to decouple movements from noise... by that I mean there are a number of smaller quieter aircraft that should never have been included in the cap in the first place (one example back in 1995 was the Aero Pelican Twin Otters that were suggested should not have been included in the cap due to their low noise signature and operational flexibility such as using intersection departures on 07 and steep approach capability... today one example is probably the RFDS that could be considered for exclusion, or indeed any aircraft that are exempt under the curfew should also be exempt under the cap)

A good place to start for those that care is with your local politicians to tell them Canberra is a dumb idea; and although we want a second airport for Sydney, for now the artificial restrictions imposed by the hourly movement cap must be relaxed from 80 to 100. This will create enormous economic value to not only NSW but also Australia with little or no perceptible impact on noise.

2nd Jan 2013, 05:20
What I don't understand (and I don't claim to live under the flight line) but SURELY SODPROPS mostly OVER WATER with modern jets can't be _that_ loud, compared to jets of the past when this legislation was put in..

A380 is supposed to be 50% quieter on takeoff compared to a 747..

2nd Jan 2013, 07:03
So the airlines can't operate their jets during the curfew, yet just after midnight yesterday, Jetgo was able to operate both their 135's on flights to CBR because they are counted as business jets.

2nd Jan 2013, 08:43
Stop looking for logic, all of you.
This is politics for politics sake - pure and simple. Now move on.

2nd Jan 2013, 08:49
And that's one of the problem, the list contains aircraft that have 3 year old engines (Falcon 10, Westwind, HS125-700) that would make similar noise to a 737NG, A320 and Ejet if they were allowed to operate from 16L/34R during the curfew.