One 787 Customer is Fed Up

[aterpster]

Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker told Bloomberg, “These problems are unacceptable because [787s have] been flying for the last 14 months.” He added that Boeing has “to get their act together very fast because we at Qatar Airways will not accept any more defects.”

[Phalanger]

You should quote the context and article, it reads very differently then.

Your quote about them being unhappy with them is actually unhappy with a failure:
The plane may remain grounded for at least another four days while Boeing sends spares and a recovery team.

“These problems are unacceptable because this aircraft has been flying for the last 14 months,” Al Baker said, referring to the Dreamliner, which entered commercial service late last year. He added that Doha-based Qatar Air will ask Boeing to cover its losses. “Definitely we will demand compensation. We are not buying airplanes from them to put in a museum.Aka, he's just playing hard ball for compensation for the incident. This could be because the contract specifically rules it out for commercial losses being an early purchase.

Lower down you will see his view on the aircraft itself:
Still, the performance of 787s delivered has been “quite adequate,” Al Baker said, and Qatar Air has seen no evidence of a separate fuel-leak problem that led the FAA a week ago to order inspections and repairs.

“Boeing makes fine airplanes,” he said. “We hope we will always work with them as long as they satisfy our requirements.”That reads very differently from the assertion above taken out of context.

Article:
Qatar Dreamliner Grounded on Fault Echoing United Jet (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-13/qatar-airways-boeing-787-grounded-with-same-fault-as-united-jet.html)

[aterpster]

The article I cited did state: He added that Boeing has “to get their act together very fast because we at Qatar Airways will not accept any more defects.”

Apparenly the article you cited did not.:ooh:

Three Boeing 787s have had electrical issues | ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/three-boeing-787s-have-had-electrical-issues-1218)

[Lyman]

Al baker rose a stink when the engines were an issue. He seems a gas bag, but he has substantial skin in the game. Are there others, rather mumbling, than spewing?

[DaveReidUK]

You are both correct.

The Bloomberg article, as published on Dec 13th, did contain the "Qatar Airways will not accept any more defects" quote (still visible in Google's cached version), but those words were subsequently removed when the page was updated the following day.

Pretty daft thing to say, anyway - Al Baker clearly doesn't expect the 787 (or any other aircraft in Qatar's fleet, come to that) to remain defect-free for its entire service life.

[fleigle]

IMHO Al Bakar comes across as a bit of a bully boy.
If you look at the current fleet of in-service 787's in Flightaware, and check the available flight histories, there is only the United diversion.
Obviously Boeing completely screwed-up with their assumptions on how fast they could bring to service such a completely new design, and if I were a Boeing shareholder I would have been a bit annoyed with the constant delays.
However, most of the airlines seem to be very happy with the performance of the aircraft in service, ANA, for example see a greater demand by passengers who want to fly on it.

[Doors to Automatic]

Al Baker - instead of whingeing how about when one of your aircraft is stuck on the ramp in DXB for over an hour in 45 degree heat, instructing your cabin crew to have the basic common courtesy to inform the passengers what is going on, but not before the idiots have found the 'on' switch for the aircraft's a/c!!!!! :mad:

[PAPI-74]

Snags will always happen with a new type into service. I am sure that thousands of pax will fly with them, just to experience the 787. This will more than cover any AOG costs.
I am sure Boeing (still the best Airline Mftr in my opinion!) will provide excellent customer service and turn the 78's around ASAP.

Cover the costs of the AOG - good one Baker!

It's not a camel.....

[lexoncd]

He has in the past commented on the A350 saying it doesn't meet their needs etc etc. Like any good negotiator he's looking for the best deal for Qatar so he's hardly likely to sing the praises of the manufacturer. Teething troubles are to be expected but no doubt Boeing and Airbus factor in a "baker" cost

[westcoastflyer]

mr baker is a psychopath.
he tells boeing and airbus how to build airplanes and engine manufacterers how to build engines.
the time has come that someone tells him to shut his stupid mouth

[DaveReidUK]

mr baker is a psychopath.
he tells boeing and airbus how to build airplanes and engine manufacterers how to build engines.

Is this the same "Mr Baker" who has around 200 assorted Boeings and Airbuses on order ?

Heaven forbid that he should think that gives him any influence with the manufacturers ...

[Heathrow Harry]

I always thought the customer is always right......................

[misd-agin]

Herb Kelleher - The Customer Is Not Always Right.

[jammers]

Leave the Flt Deck to go for a pee without your cap 'you're fired', take a bottle of Evian into the Flt Deck from 1st ( instead of that ****e Dasani), you're fired.
Everyone works under a veil of fear from this man. This goes WAY back.:yuk:

[Lyman]

Such pressure! A squared away appearance is required? What tyranny!

Do the checks bounce?

[West Coast]

The nerve of him. Bet he even haggles over the sticker price of the planes. None of you naysayers haggle when you buy a car I would hope. If you do, you better apply some of the same unflattering titles to yourselves.

[Whip Whitaker]

Leave the Flt Deck to go for a pee without your cap 'you're fired', take a
bottle of Evian into the Flt Deck from 1st ( instead of that ****e Dasani),
you're fired.
Everyone works under a veil of fear from this man. This goes
WAY back


Seems to me they have much bigger problems, I wonder how this info gets to "the office", unless some CRM flunked, "CSD" in the making provides some assistance.

[KATLPAX]

What I find interesting is that Mr.Baker appears to enjoy airing his displeasure very publicly. While I'm sure Boeing is hearing an earful from many of its customers (justly so), the only one you hear about is Mr. Baker. Is this truly helpful? In my mind, not very professional nor in the best interest of anyone. His comments are spiteful, harsh, and generally do nothing more than reflect on his management style. You never hear anything of the sort from major industry CEOs when things don't go as planned. There are better ways to resolve issues than airing them on the front page and with such venom.

[Heathrow Harry]

I agree somewhat with KTLPAX - Mr Baker does indeed like the sound of his own voice

Unfortunately it's a disease that afflicts almost all airline CEO's..

Juan Tripp, Freddie Laker, Sir Colin Marshall, the Bearded Beast, Herb Kelleher, Mr Ryanair............. the list is long

[keel beam]

Would have helped if you gave the english translation straight away?

Second (other) boeing translates for polish airlines LOT (FLIGHT; LOT) 787 necessary < belong > Dreamliner, which (who) has arrived to friday for country, could not carry away for vienna evening of (in the evening of) passenger. In machine, just as in first copy, it notice (remark) fault. It within several days next such inconvenience already and next cause for aggravation of (excitement of) passenger. Many of we has bought tickets " only and for flight (lot) exclusively " Dreamlinerem it writes on contact 24 - @ mariush. Arrival second (other) has landed on warsaw airport to friday 15 / second (other) after hour Dreamlinera TVN24 Dreamliner Chopina. Machine has arrived from united states from factory of boeing in (to) - straight Everett. According to early information of marek (mark; mark) Kłucińskiego, spokesman polish airlines LOT (FLIGHT; LOT), second (other) had to fly about hour with passengers for vienna same day 17.20 else Dreamliner. As spokesman has informed, however, it notice (remark) signalling apparatus of certain fault in machine. She (it) has been tried out. However, aircraft could not start. Passengers have managed for vienna boeing 737. They are already proficient " both (both of) Dreamlinery. Machine, which (who) has arrived to friday for poland, it has flown out to saturday before hour to planned for london 8 lot (flight; lot) " marek (mark) has informed our editorial - Kłuciński, spokesman polish airlines LOT (FLIGHT; LOT). Fault first according to information of spokesman repaired Dreamlinera, mechanical fault has managed to repair to friday in first machine from the point of view of her (it) (, could not realize aircraft to wednesday flights, thursday and fives (friday) ). Had damage of largeness one mechanical centimeter in regions of under-carriage " first Dreamliner. Aircraft is such machine, fix-up must be tried out in which (who) each " spokesman said to friday polish airlines LOT (FLIGHT; LOT) - . According to its (his) information, fault has been repaired already and machine will carry away to saturday of passenger for london. Carrier translates all faults according to it (him) " disease century (age) children's " (, introduce can cause new machines for service on start problems ). Instead of Dreamlinerem have convened passengers from summer (year) - aircraft " reminiscent polish motor transport " " next case (together; time) polish line (rope) 80-tych. But damage. We have been invested (located) replacements for it in aircraft, which (who) remember polish motor transport for illusion from summer (year) 80-tych. Decor of interior even and they are treated seats as additional highlights here " obdarte it jittered in mail for editorial of contact 24 - @ Paweł. It has not flew to sunday too not first case (together; time), when passengers could not fly new Dreamlinerem. Machine has been recaptured to sunday from flight for munich, but would-be passengers have flown off with several hour delay on board of boeing 737 Dreamlinera. Press office inform polish airlines lot (flight; lot) enigmatycznie, that it has not proceeded by the reason of necessity lot (flight; lot) " conducting additional test ". " Untrust and profession (contest) they accompany passengers - such emotion, it has redeemed from which (who) many from the point of view of lot (flight; lot) specially exactly " Dreamlinera internaut wrote in mail -, which (who) has informed us about case. Then one of passenger has written on contact 24, that aircraft had problem with electricity. We were on board " already. Suddenly < snap > it has been made darkly " it inform -. It read about sunday problems more " " Dreamlinera Skołowani material about problems with new acquisition for poland from united states polish airlines LOT (FLIGHT; LOT) new acquisition polish airlines LOT (FLIGHT; LOT) boeing 787 15 november - see " fact " arrive straight Dreamliner. It SEE RATES OF REPORTERS 24 of ARRIVAL. Fleet of polish carrier will count five aircraft of these types for march 2013 year. Machine has executed first commercial flight 14 december, when it has flown from warsaw for prague. Has to fly for vienna also Dreamliner, munich, frankfurt, hanover, kiev, budapest and brussels. According to present plans ", second (other) will serve flights (lot) from february 2013 year " Dreamliner LOT-u dalekodystansowe company has served -.

Courtesey of Poltran.com

[fleigle]

Well it IS from Polish !!!:E
Maybe they were using HP rather than TI FMC inputs. (OK that IS dating me somewhat)

[Jarrune]

Hope, this one is slightly better:

The second Dreamliner did not depart. The first one as well.

The second PLL LOT owned Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which flew to Poland on Friday, could not take passengers to Vienna. There was a malfunction indicated in the machine, just like in the first one. This is another such trouble in a few days, and another reason to disappoint passengers. "Many of us bought tickets only to fly Dreamliner" – said Mariusz, a would-be passenger.

Arrival of the second Dreamliner

The second Dreamliner landed at Warsaw Chopin Airport on Friday after 3pm The machine arrived from the United States - straight from the Boeing factory in Everett. According to earlier reports of Marek Klucinski, a spokesman for LOT, the second Dreamliner was scheduled on the same day at 17.20 to Vienna.
According to spokesman, however, there was a fault indication noted in a machine. Aircraft has been thoroughly checked, but it was not allow to fly. Passengers flew to Vienna on B737.
"Both Dreamliners are already airworthy. The one arrived on Friday, departed as scheduled to London before 8am next day" - said Marek Klucinski, LOT spokesman.

First Dreamliner already fixed

According to the spokesman, a mechanical failure in the first machine was fixed on Friday (because of it, the plane was unable to carry out flights on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday). "There was a minor mechanical failure of the undercarriage on the first Dreamliner. Aircraft is such a machine, in which each device must be carefully checked," - spokesman for LOT Polish Airlines told us on Friday. According to his information, the problem has been rectified and the machine will take the passengers to London on Saturday.
All faults are explained by carrier as "teething problems" (according to it, new machines entering the service can cause problems at the beginning).

Instead Dreamliner – aircraft like a coach from the 80's

"Once again, Polish Airlines disappointed their passengers. Instead we were put into a plane, which is reminiscent of the old coach from the 80's. Tattered interior and seats was an additional attraction" – said Paul, one of annoyed passengers.

On Sunday, it did not depart as well

This is not the first time that passengers are not able to fly the new Dreamliner. On Sunday, the machine was withdrawn from a trip to Munich, and would-be Dreamliner passengers departed on board of Boeing 737 after several hours delay. Lot Polish Airlines press office reported enigmatically, that the flight did not take place because of the need for "further testing".
"Disbelief and disappointment - these emotions are experienced by passengers, many of whom have bought flight specifically because of the Dreamliner" - surfer wrote in an email, informing us about the case. The same passenger wrote that there was a problem with electricity. "We were already on board. Suddenly it got dark" – he informed.

New LOT acquisition

Boeing 787 Dreamliner flew into Poland Nov. 15 straight from the United States. Till March 2013 Polish carrier fleet will own five planes of this type.
The first commercial flight was made on December 14, when 787 flew from Warsaw to Prague. Dreamliner is scheduled to fly to Vienna, Munich, Frankfurt, Hanover, Kiev, Budapest and Brussels as well. "According to current plans, the second LOT owned Dreamliner will start to operate long-haul flights on February 2013 " - the company said.

[JetMender]

LOT are having lots (no pun intended) of "teething" problems / AOGs with various systems on both their newly delivered 787s. Seems Boeing have got their work cut out to try & resolve issues with this new aircraft design :uhoh:

[Lyman]

Give it time...

[whiowhio]

I was involved in the hangar with the BOAC/BA 747's from the first delivery so am well-versed with "teething problems"...

Therefore, I figured that ANA being an initial customer, presumably with high cycles utilisation, was a good Boeing "shake-down" move...

Or am I missing something? :confused: Interesting!

[DaveReidUK]

LOT are having lots (no pun intended) of "teething" problems / AOGs with various systems on both their newly delivered 787s. Seems Boeing have got their work cut out to try & resolve issues with this new aircraft designThe same could be said of pretty well every commercial jet programme over the last 50 years.

[ironbutt57]

He postponed QR 380's as well until they are off the production line with proper wings.....dont know about you folks, but I'd sort of like my airplanes to work properly..

[westhawk]

The same could be said of pretty well every commercial jet programme over the last 50 years.

It sure could. I'd even extend that statement to include ALL aircraft production since the Wright Signal Flyer developed for sale to the US Army Signal Corps around 1909.

Fast forward to today's airlines and they have very little reason to believe that any new airplane type they add to their fleet will not suffer some "teething pains". It's always been that way and there is less reason than ever to believe it won't be so today or in the future. They know it (or certainly should) when they sign the agreement. Airlines also know that the airframer will do all they can to limit the impact of any problems encountered to the best of their abilities. Since bad publicity isn't good for either entity in terms of future profitability, it follows that both will act to control and contain the effects of any problems which do occur. But that doesn't mean it might not be advantageous to an airline to turn up the heat on Boeing or Airbus if it might improve one's bargaining position in future deals or receive concessions or considerations on current ones.

Bottom line?

This is how business is conducted.

[Uncle Fred]

The same could be said of pretty well every commercial jet programme over the last 50 years.

IIRC the 777 had a rather smooth introduction but that is not to quibble with your point as the others certainly seemed to have had rollout delays at the very least.

[TURIN]

Oh I dunno. The original GE90 was a bit of a dog.

[olasek]

the 777 had a rather smooth introduction777 had a rather rocky introduction, United fired a nasty letter to Boeing outlining numerous problems with the aircraft, complaining about twice as long down-time as promised, etc. United wrote this letter 9 months after it put the aircraft to regular use. But it is true that 2 years later all these issues had been worked out and aircraft achieved stellar reputation.

[KATLPAX]

Baker is not happy....once again best way to resolve the issue is to go very public, w guns blazing...karma baby


Qatar Airways and construction firm lock horns in legal dispute
Sunday, December 30, 20127DAYS Follow
Qatar Airways is filing a $600 million legal claim against a construction firm for allegedly delaying the opening of Doha’s new international airport by up to a year, the carrier announced Saturday.

In a statement, Qatar Airways said it is pursuing legal action against joint-venture construction firm Lindner Depa Interiors (LDI) for failing to complete a $250 million contract to build 19 airport lounges for New Doha International Airport (NDIA) on time - meaning it could not open this month as originally scheduled.

LDI is the result of a partnership between Germany’s Lindner Group and Dubai luxury interiors firm Depa. It had its contract for the airport job terminated earlier this year.

​
Qatar Airways is filing a $600 million legal claim against a construction firm for allegedly delaying the opening of Doha’s new international airport by up to a year

On Saturday, Qatar Airways, which will operate the majority of flights at the new airport, listed its complaints against the company. It said LDI had “performed extremely poorly” in failing to meet construction targets.

It claimed the delay “seriously affected the airline’s expansion plans, causing huge revenue losses, increased construction costs and delay penalties, and more importantly, inconveniencing passengers”.

But in a statement released last night, LDI said it was “deeply disappointed” by the Qatar Airways statement, which it called “a false and misleading representation of the facts”.

The firm said it neither had any relationship with the airline itself nor had it received any legal claim.

But Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker was forthright in his criticism of LDI.

“We are extremely disappointed by the poor performance of LDI, which has failed to carry out the contract in a timely manner, which in turn has forced a delay of the opening of the New Doha International Airport by nearly a year,” he said.

He added: “The current airport we are operating from is already full to capacity with virtually no room to grow. We relied on moving to our new home, the New Doha International Airport this month, but this has not happened.”

The airline now anticipates the new air hub will not be completed until the second half of 2013 - a delay Al Baker said yesterday will affect everything from deliveries of new aircraft to the revenues of Qatar Duty Free.

Earlier this year LDI said delays to its work on the new airport stemmed from the fact it was “denied full access to the project for the first nine months of this 16-month project” and it also noted it was in discussions with its lawyers.

Yesterday’s strongly-worded statement released by Qatar Airways appears to set the stage for a high-profile legal clash, with LDI saying last night it was “seeking legal counsel as a result of the damage caused to its reputation based on the false and misleading information made in the Qatar Airways statement”.

[Pub User]

The second Dreamliner landed at Warsaw Chopin Airport on Friday after 3pm The machine arrived from the United States - straight from the Boeing factory in Everett. According to earlier reports of Marek Klucinski, a spokesman for LOT, the second Dreamliner was scheduled on the same day at 17.20 to Vienna.

Great planning.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

It was not planning of any sort.
The decision to take delivery of the second B787 that day, was only taken a few weeks before, originally due in the new year.
The Vienna flight should have been on the first a/c as was all the other flights, however as the first a/c had been tech since that Wednesday and did not become serviceable until later on Saturday, this did not happen.
With references to the B777, Boeing keeps on saying that the B787 entering service has been smother than the B777 introduction.
I can see why they use that a/c now as goal to beat, not much of a goal is it? :mad:

[Buster the Bear]

The Seven Eight may have problems, but nothing compared to Qantas and an exploding engine!

[olasek]

I can see why they use that a/c now as goal to beat, not much of a goal is it?It is a great long-term goal, in 1998, 2 years after its introduction 777 achieved 99.96% dispatch reliability, phenomenal number to this day. To this day buyers of commercial jetliners use it as a yardstick of reliability.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Yes, but Boeing was referring to entry into service, not 2 years after entry. :ok:

[olasek]

Yes, but Boeing was referring to entry into service, not 2 years after entry. :ok:Correct, and it is quite logical on their part to be pleased with meeting reliability numbers for 787 comparing against the reliability numbers for 777 at the same point in time after introduction into service....:ok:

[Barling Magna]

More media hysteria about teething problems. However, the list is starting to get embarassing I'd have thought:

BBC News - Fresh faults with Boeing Dreamliner planes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20950287)

[Fairdealfrank]

As with any new innovation/release of software, etc.: NEVER be the first!

[Barling Magna]

Certainly, you should never buy version 1.1 ........

[ConstantFlyer]

Anyone here been on an Ethiopian 787 yet? Apparently they're doing daily Addis Ababa-Washington with a tech stop in Rome each way.