FAU instead of AOA

[flyboyalaska]

It is interesting to note the response the FAU is receiving from the company. Perhaps we should consider merging the AOA into the FAU and have them represent us. :ok:

[Tornado Ali]

The difference is that the company KNOWS the FAU will follow through with their threat of action. Until the company believes the same about us, only the FAU will get closer to their goals.

[Frogman1484]

Does that mean we would have to fly without smiling!?:cool:

[White None]

And no Alcohol service!

[SMOC]

See the new pattern the cabin crew have got.

HKG-RUH-BAH(PX)-HKG(PX) a casual 23:10 duty stuck on a plane. :eek:

There's a second one too going the other way around I believe.

[cxorcist]

I'm guessing that pattern won't last long due sickness.

[jetjockey696]

Cathay Pacific is seeking common ground with its flight attendants union even though its already rejected offer of a 2 per cent pay rise is "very much" a final decision, chief executive John Slosar said.

In an interview yesterday on the eve of talks resuming with the union today, Slosar said he could not describe himself as positive that the dispute over next year's pay rise and other matters could be resolved within a few days as negotiations had not yet started.

But he stressed that the airline would be open-minded in an effort to reach common ground.

"If you go back and look at the past, things can normally get resolved quickly," he said.

His comments came as the union also criticised the airline for its announcement that cabin crew flying to Riyadh would not get a night's rest in a hotel there, instead having to rest in-flight on the journey back to Hong Kong. The union said this would be exhausting for the crew, and criticised the airline for announcing such an "inhuman" measure ahead of today's negotiations.

The pay dispute was sparked after the airline announced on November 30 that its flight attendants would get a 2 per cent pay rise next year instead of the 5 per cent the union had sought.

The 6,000-strong Cathay Pacific Flight Attendants Union has threatened industrial action - a work-to-rule or limited services - before Christmas, escalating to a strike on New Year's Eve.

Asked if the 2 per cent offer was final, Slosar said: "Very much so. We've already announced that for all our Hong Kong-based staff, and we're certainly not going to change it for this group or that group."

The union has also called for the scrapping of a cross-base flying scheme for cheaper non-local cabin crew it fears will gradually replace local crew. Slosar said 60 per cent of the foreign-based cabin crew were actually Hong Kong identity card holders who needed to stay overseas for reasons such as that their families were there.

He fended off claims that overseas cabin crew were cheaper, saying that while those in Thailand were, those in countries like Canada and Britain were not.

He also rejected criticism that the airline was lowering outport allowances - paid to cover flight attendants' expenses during overseas stays between flights - saying the average allowance had gone up by 9.6 per cent this year.

On the union's demand for suspension of "red-eye flights" - when cabin crew had to work overnight with only about one hour between shifts - Slosar said there were only about three such flights in a day.

He said he hoped the union would not take industrial action. "We take very seriously the need to get customers to their destinations," he said.

SCMP..
Tuesday, 18 December

[Sqwak7700]

Perhaps we should consider merging the AOA into the FAU and have them represent us.

The strength of a union comes from its members. I'm afraid if CX pilots join the FAU the majority would only weaken their position.

The only option is to grow a spine and sack-up unfortunately. Sucks to be in the trenches, but you either sit there sucking your thumb or you shoot back. Personal choice really. Joining another army is not gonna magically give you the strength to fight. :rolleyes:

[flyboyalaska]

Perhaps we should consider a simple first step, which is contract compliance. Crew control operates solely to contract compliance, so why shouldn't we.

I respect the AOA representatives that are working deligently on our behalf however the company does not see the need to even discuss issues with us. Management response is demonstrating a lack of respect for our association.

We therefore have to make the first move to get their attention (like the FAU). I agree put up or shut up. I do believe there is enough interest out there to "put up."

Comments or suggestions.

[betpump5]

I wanted to post when this thread first started but couldn't as I was on the floor PMSL.

And I'm sure most of the FAU would have been doing the same after reading this- because those guys have bigger balls than all of us.

In the past 12 months, we have seen how our Paris Colleagues have been treated and our Instructors down in ADL. In any union in the UK, this behavior would have resulted in a wildcat strike by its members- Bob Crow wouldn't have even had to write an email to his members.

We weren't even given the option. All in the interest of "good relations". :yuk:

If those two examples didn't allow us to show our teeth, then nothing will.

The FAU are better off and stronger without us. Embarrassing :yuk:

[cxorcist]

Let's pick our fight when the company is making money hand over fist.

[I'mbatman]

I'm supportive of the FAU's plight but maybe I'm missing something in regards to the Riyadh pattern. Didn't the FA's cry about overnighting there a few years ago? So they don't want to spend the night in Riyadh, but they also don't want to PX home? Which is it?

[nitpicker330]

Those of you with short memories recall there are 200 of your colleagues engaged in EBA negotiations in Oz and we cannot take any action while talks continue in good faith.

Besides I totally agree with some of the posts above with regards to solidarity amoungst the Pilot group.. Doomed springs to mind year after year!!

[Kurtis Chukle Willis]

So the girls are fed up with the red-eye flights. Don't want to do them and are clearly prepared to fight to get them off the roster. Even though they get critical G after. Us, we get not a single day off after, yet we keep doing them. Same for the short layovers that generate critical G's for the cabin crew, we get nothing, back to work the next day. What now? if the FAU is successful in getting these flights changed for them, we should hang our heads in shame. Time to stop blindly doing as we are told, or probably not. Just another "industrial issue" that we will continue to suck up.

[Flap10]

Batman,

You're pretty short sighted and unimaginative if you think a layover in RUH or PX all the way home is the only solution. FYI we always had these RUH flights, the layovers in RUH however have only been around for the past year. Nothing stopping us from overnighting in BAH or AUH.

[broadband circuit]

Nothing stopping us from overnighting in BAH or AUH.

Actually, there is something - COST!

[Kurtis Chukle Willis]

Curtain,

ASR(F) all the time, not one to tell my "buddies" what to do. We are all grown ups. Perhaps why I am not in training.

Funny though that I lost count at 7, the number of avenues you mentioned to "petition" to get things changed. Seems we have been given umpteen avenues to highlight unsafe/fatiguing duties but none too effective. Seems the FAU has a better more efficient way to get more reasonable results.

Think of that wonderful TOD fatigue survey, how many of those patterns or ones similar have snuck back on the roster.

[Sqwak7700]

The difference is that a lot of cabin crew see their jobs as temporary (just look at the BC turn over rate) where as this is still a career for pilots. They've got much less to lose

Even more reason for us to fight back, I think you might have gotten it backwards there.

If you are looking at a job as a potential career, then you are the one with lots to lose when you allow it to deteriorate and go pear-shaped. If you look at a job as temporary, then why would you even care about the conditions - you would simply just move on when it got intolerable.

And if you think CC look at this as "temporary", you are sorely mistaken or don't work for CX. You know the seniority required to make ISM or even SP?

You must stop justifying inaction. It is catching up to you quicker than you can see. :oh:

[crwkunt roll]

The cabin crew pattern has just been cancelled.........How quick was that???

[betpump5]

You must stop justifying inaction. It is catching up to you quicker than you can see

Thank you! Excellently put.

When I heard about about our Paris Colleagues I was aching for an email asking us to vote for strike action. This was the perfect time to send a big F U to management, a chance to say we won't bend over and take it anymore. It never came. Of course the excuses were the usual BS about how talks were ongoing to get the best deal.

NO! Completely wrong. Diplomacy was written-off the moment this complete and utter disregard for our Paris colleagues occurred. This was our best opportunity for action and now that chance has gone.

[SMOC]

See the new pattern the cabin crew have got.

HKG-RUH-BAH(PX)-HKG(PX) a casual 23:10 duty stuck on a plane.

There's a second one too going the other way around I believe.

Apparently this pattern has been abolished within 24hrs of cabin crew seeing it on their roster it's back to an overnight with allowances. :D

If only pilots could get CX to reply with such haste.

[Bob Hawke]

Yes it's pathetic, you bunch of pussies. What have you got to loose? Oh that's right everything, just like the girls have. Get off your asses. Pulls those boxer shorts back and Showem what ya got!! Trouble is there's more g strings than boxer pants being worn around this place.

[Kurtis Chukle Willis]

We are not the face of the airline, if you think the flying public may lack sympathy for the cabin crew now, as the economy is tough. They could not care less for us, even during a healthy economy. Face facts, the job we do up front is not a game changer, considering the fact that many of our asian colleagues do the same job for less money around the region. The fact that we are a safer, more professional and better trained(checked) group is lost on the flying public. until one ends up in a ball of fire of course, but folks don't think like that.
FOP has the lion share of the budget, fuel is our biggest cost. Flight duties are rostered to within minutes of FDP limits.It wont take much to make a big impact on the bottom line. We don't need to stand there with our pants down, it wont work. Most of us lack a set of balls any how and the public won't give a toss. We need leadership,direction and a determination to change. Depending how you look at it, we hold none of the cards, or we hold all the cards. We just need to know which ones to play.

[broadband circuit]

until one ends up in a ball of fire of course

More to the point, when one DOESN'T end up in a ball of fire when it could/should have.

Think Surabaya - HK.
Think Singapore to Jakarta

[Adam Nams]

They could not care less for us,

You are quite correct, but respectfully, you are your own worst enemy. It may help your case if you were more visible and engaging with the public.

What is the reason behind the lack of rank tabs, ties and hats when travelling to work? Is that CX policy? All I see in the morning is a bunch of mormon missionaries and double glazing salesmen disapearing into the back door of Kitty City.

Raise your profile, then you may get some sympathy.

Best of luck ladies and gents. Nothing wouldn't gladden the heart of this aviator any more than to see you all fighting your corner for a change. :ok:

[jetjockey696]

Cathay Pacific flight attendants and the airline have stuck a deal ending their pay tussle and other issues.
This followed protracted discussions between the two parties and had threatened to disrupt Christmas and New Year flights.
The Flight Attendants Union chairwoman Dora Lai Yuk-sim said today the deal also involves changes to flight patterns and work conditions.

[etopsmonkey]

What? That's it? That's all the cabin crew can get from the company? No pay raise beyond the 2%? So sad.

[wongsuzie]

''All I see in the morning is a bunch of mormon missionaries and double glazing salesmen disapearing into the back door of Kitty City''.

Lol!

[Speed Weasel]

How does an extra $500 make a fatiguing pattern safer?

[Bill Smith]

Affordable safety! Awesome isn't it :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[CX-HOR]

Well they do get at least 20 hours off before and a G after a night turn, a guarantee of only 1 rostered a month and 5 Gs for doing a 3 day Oz, and 2 nights in RUH to recover, so what have the AOA got us? Oh, and their reserve has a clock start time and I bet credit hours. All without expensive "Labour Specialists" on the payroll.

[SloppyJoe]

Its the AOA GC, why don't they propose contract compliance over this as well as 25yr housing.

When letters get ignored make threats rather than doing NOTHING.

I expect there would be lots of guys willing. Its the leadership of the AOA that baffles me, not its members.