Qantas Asian Expansion

[Ultergra]

Business Spectator (http://m.businessspectator.com.au/businessspectator/#!/article/Qantas-set-to-unveil-fresh-Asia-focused-campaign-pd20121211-2VQH7?OpenDocument&src=tnb&modapt=news)


From Qantas Airways chief executive Alan Joyce has launched a renewed effort to woo back customers that will feature an aggressive Asian strategy, with plans to deploy aircraft from Australian routes to the region fitted out with an upgraded international business class, according to The Australian Financial Review.

The plan will first involve re-timing flights to Asia and increasing capacity to cities in the region such as Singapore and Hong Kong.
The airline plans to later introduce additional frequencies throughout the region, with a focus on business hubs, though this leg of the plan remains under discussion.

The airline will discuss its strategy at a meeting of the Qantas board on Thursday, the AFR added.

The renewed focus on Asia follows Mr Joyce's earlier plan to establish a premium subsidiary airline based in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur.

Mr Joyce has been under pressure to reinvigorate the airline as it faces criticism from a group of activist shareholders, including former chief executive Geoff Dixon and venture capitalist Mark Carnegie, who are seeking support for a rival management agenda.

Mr Joyce is betting that the new strategy will help Qantas stem the loss of passengers to Asian airlines.



Sounds very very positive.

[astroboy55]

QF to singapore/hongkong
Scumstar Asia/Hong Kong from there........

Id like to be positive but after so many years of being beaten down...its hard....:rolleyes:

heres hoping anyway...

[Shed Dog Tosser]

And I thought it was decided that the onestar lcc model was the only way ahead.

IMHO the board has screwed it at every turn:

* turned their backs on the premium market and given VB the leg up they needed to break out of the LCC model,

* grounded the fleet, would have helped JB KPI's along nicely and given VB another leg up,

* put onestar on many many many domestic and international routes that were serviced by mainline / international, in doing so have pissed off the traveling public and given VB and Tiger yet another leg up.

You just couldn't make a joke that funny.

[Sunfish]

"We need to bring more Chinese to Sydney". Profitless growth, here we come again.

[standard unit]

Qantas Asia ambitions raise difficult strategic questions | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/12/12/qantas-asia-ambitions-raise-difficult-strategic-questions/)

[denabol]

I think Sandilands is right to look at the bigger pitcha and what it means in terms of the Qantas Emirates thing. I didn't realise Qantas was going to use Emirates flights as part of its 'development' of Asia services. Fark me.

The one question that Qantas probably doesn’t want asked about its proposed Emirates partnership is whether it actually means it gets more passengers for its own international services?
Because the answer is ‘No.’
It is also a question that leaps off the screen on the AFR (http://afr.com/p/business/companies/joyce_plan_another_asian_push_X9XxIsj1ZiXazx31wbKvKN) this morning about how Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has a plan B in Asia, once the fine print is absorbed.
There is nothing in the proposed Qantas-Emirates partnership which would induce the rapidly growing loyal cadre of customers for Emirates flights to swop to Qantas flights.
This is because Qantas is in effect transferring to Emirates the risks and rewards of serving the Western Australia, South Australia and Queensland markets to all of Europe, and via its Dubai hub, those dozens of ‘funny places’ all over central Asia and a large part of Africa that Qantas couldn’t even locate on an Atlas before it discovered that the world was rapidly changing, and creating vast new markets which would also be relevant to Australian business and Australian tourism.


Full article here:

Qantas Asia ambitions raise difficult strategic questions | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/12/12/qantas-asia-ambitions-raise-difficult-strategic-questions/)

[MACH082]

Good timing with the impending arrival of JQ 787s, a new 'international' CEO and Asian expansion plans......:}

We all know who will be flying to Asia!

[bazza stub]

FAIL Alan, FAIL!!

There is no way on gods green earth that I will submit myself or my family to being shoe horned into an aeroplane with a hundred and something half pissed, burping, farting, unwashed bogans, aaaaaalllllll the way to Honkers or Singapore when there is another option!

Hong Kong = Cathay
Singapore = Singapore Airlines

The End

P.S. of course you could choose to believe that it won't be Brown* doing the flights.

[Going Boeing]

From Qantas Airways chief executive Alan Joyce has launched a renewed effort to woo back customers that will feature an aggressive Asian strategy, with plans to deploy aircraft from Australian routes to the region fitted out with an upgraded international business class, according to The Australian Financial Review.

From past history of Alan Joyce's spin (aka LIES) this will not involve the premium brand.

Back in June, he announced that there was to be a significant increase in the number of domestic flights - both Qantas and Jetstar. In reality, he increased Jetstar flights and, to force passengers onto this extra capacity, cut a number of QF mainline services on weekends - what was previously hourly services all day SYD-BNE, BNE-MEL etc became 2 hourly through the middle of the day despite the services always having high load factors. He has also brought forward the retirement of the RR B763's replacing them with smaller capacity B738's. Overall, a significant reduction in seats despite announcing to the press that there would be an increase for mainline as well as Jetstar.

The lengthy history of his lies means that he can't be trusted irrespective of what "positive news" he announces.

[Metro man]

Same problem as before, located at the end of the line with no connecting market. Want to fly Perth - Delhi ? go SQ with full service economy or business class all the way. Going somewhere in China or Northern Asia ? Fly CX via Hong Kong

Without a hub, QF can only make money flying between some major cities. Hub operators such as EK, SQ and CX can make money from major to major, major to minor and minor to minor cities.

SQ can make money from passengers flying Adelaide to Phuket by combining them with passengers going onto and originating from other places, without an en-route transfer point, QF can't.

[oicur12.again]

"...shoe horned into an aeroplane with a hundred and something half pissed, burping, farting, unwashed bogans..."

And

"Hong Kong = Cathay Singapore = Singapore Airlines"

I had to giggle at this.

Do you think these sorts of people DONT travel with SQ or CX?

They do, they just don't look like us and their farts smell different.

[qantel]

HA! Asian expansion? Blah blah all talk no action as usual.

Yeah heres a good plan lets tell all the competition our tactics before anything is actually implemented.

This is a ploy to discract everyone from the real issues, lies and corruption.

[Fruet Mich]

Qantas A320's on order = 139 going to..... Jetstar
Qantas 787 on order = 15 going to..... Jetstar

Qantas's firm widebody on order = 0 going to.....Qantas

There's your company direction.

[DirectAnywhere]

The ACCC will be handing down its finding in relation to the proposed QF-EK tie up next week. Rod Sims' comments in the AFR may have the board and EXCO concerned that things may not go the way they wish.

If that is the case, the list of failures continues to grow.

* Jetstar Pacific - debacle
* Red Q - stillborn
* Jetstar Hong Kong - announced in March yet still pending regulatory approvals which will not be rushed by the Chinese government
* QF-EK alliance - assuming it is not given the tick
* lack of dividend
* share price down by almost 80% from its post flight high.

It is interesting that this comes back into the news this week in the context of possible events next week. Trying to pull a last minute rabbit from the hat? Surely, the board's and Alan Joyce's positions will become completely untenable should the EK alliance not be approved given the list of ongoing failures.

[Livs Hairdresser]

Interesting comments from Rob Fyfe.

Outgoing Air NZ chief rules out Qantas (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/outgoing-air-nz-chief-rules-out-qantas/story-e6frg95x-1226534050127)

"I think inevitably Qantas needed to form some type of alliance to address the substantial losses that it keeps telling us it's making in the long-haul arena," Fyfe says.
Doesn't sound like he's totally convinced about the accuracy of Qantas' reporting standards either.

"But I was surprised that the solution was to do a deal with Emirates. On the surface of that, it looks like a very good deal for Emirates; I'm not exactly clear if it's a good deal for Qantas."
Why is this blatantly obvious to everyone except Qantas management?

[SeeBee]

Because Qantas management is completely and utterly incompetent...

[ohallen]

No they are the smartest guys in the room, just ask them and all their spin masters.

[DrPepz]

I do wonder who QF will be carrying in all those A330s and 744s to SIN. the SYD flight arrives at 1600, whereas the MEL BNE and ADL flights arrive at 1900 and 2100 respectively.

They basically connect to no where. The only Jetstar Asia flights which connect seamlessly in both directions are those to KUL and HKT. So the 744s from BNE and MEL will be connecting pax to KUL and HKT????

[Eastwest Loco]

From the coalface, the rat has screwed the puppy.

The alliance with EK will look pretty, but the SLF lose their Asia stopover, which is a preferred option any day over DXB. Nothing wrong with DXB but it is generally stinking hot and beyond a lot of comfort zones.

Malaysia is the major winner directly from the pull off from Asia - Europe. How much sniggering is going on there in Board Room having joined Oneworld. Get your QF points and your Asian stopover with good fares, service and dirt cheap addons to such ugly destinations as Penang, Langkawi etc.

And how is QF going to go driving code shares ex Dubai? There needs to be a major rethink in yield management. The Pacific is a case in point. AA selling trans Pacific fares on QF metal at a significantly cheaper cost than the owner of the metal.

Block outs on the AA internal code shares with QF claiming that the owning carrier controls the QF yield where the opposite is obviously not the case on the longhaul.

Interesting phase we are entering, but not one we should be looking forward to in my opinion.

The turd may really be about to hit the turbine and the field of effect will be far reaching.

I so hope I am wrong.

Best all

EWL

[Ultergra]

Tough crowd...



Singapore Airlines to square off against Qantas


Qantas Airways Ltd's plans to launch a renewed Asian strategy could face stiff competition from a rejuvenated Singapore Airlines, which plans to offer full-service customers new cabins and lounges and may expand its relationship with Virgin Australia, according to The Australian.

Although Qantas will next month deliver details on its Asian strategy, Singapore Airlines sees an opportunity to capitalise on Qantas' decision to switch its European stopover from Singapore to Dubai.

“I think Australia is a growing market,” Singapore Airlines chief executive Goh Choon Phong said, according to The Australian.

“We certainly want to grow further.”

SIA is using subsidiary SilkAir to bulk-up its intra-Asia full-service network and hopes to develop its focus on the lower-cost segment through long-haul unit Scoot and their stake in Tiger Airways.

The Singaporean airline held 9.4 per cent of the international market to and from Australia in September, which represented the second-highest figure, behind Qantas, The Australian reported.

[moa999]

Dr Pepz,
Thats the whole point.
If EK is approved the flights will be retimed to earlier - this was never possible when they were flying through to LHR to land in the wee hours of the QF slots.

Given RedQ seems to be dead and buried hopefully QF can setup a mini-hub in SIN with requisite fly thru rights..
eg. SYD-SIN-DEL, MEL-SIN-BOM, BNE-SIN-BKK all arriving in SIN at around the same time to get the transfers occurring..

All should be achievable on 330s

[Metro man]

Qantas plans earlier Asia flights to win business travellers (http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/premium/transport-hub/aviation/qantas-plans-earlier-asia-flights-win-business-travellers-20121213)

It will reschedule HK, S'pore services that are arriving too late for meetings

It will also be offered on Qantas's routes to Johannesburg, London, Frankfurt and Dallas by the same date.
[SYDNEY] Qantas Airways Ltd, seeking to end losses on international routes, will reschedule Hong Kong and Singapore services that arrive too late for business meetings as part of an Asia restructuring to lure corporate travellers.
Many of Qantas's flights from Australia to Singapore and Hong Kong currently take up most of the working day, as the schedule is designed around onward connections to Europe, Simon Hickey, head of the airline's international division, said in an interview in Sydney on Tuesday.
The changes would mean travellers waste less of the business day in the air and can make regional connections without overnighting in Asian ports.
"You've been landing in Asia at convenient times for landing in London, instead of convenient times for you to go and do business in Singapore," Mr Hickey said.

[Metro man]

Given RedQ seems to be dead and buried hopefully QF can setup a mini-hub in SIN with requisite fly thru rights..
eg. SYD-SIN-DEL, MEL-SIN-BOM, BNE-SIN-BKK all arriving in SIN at around the same time to get the transfers occurring..

All should be achievable on 330s

So QANTAS are going to go up against Singapore Incorporated in their own back yard ? They would be better off having a code share with SQ and transferring their passengers onto Singapore Airlines flights for onward connections. SQ have multiple departures (6 or 7 flights a day) to a wide range of destinations which aren't practical to fly to via Dubai. Full service in economy, business and sometimes first class is offered to a high standard. You're not asking premium passengers to fly on Jetstar.

At least Singapore and Hong Kong are destinations in themselves and not just a transit point. Perth certainly has the demand for flights to Singapore without having to rely on connecting passengers to fill the aircraft.

Of course there would be the same problem as there is with Emirates, why not just buy a ticket all the way on one airline if you have a connecting flight. QANTAS could sell code share seats on SQ and become a virtual airline.;)

[Sunfish]

I think Joyce is clutching at straws.

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Singapore Airlines puts focus on Asia after selling Virgin Atlantic stake (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/singapore-airlines-puts-focus-on-asia-after-selling-virgin-atlantic-stake-20121213-2bc6m.html)

Singapore Airlines puts focus on Asia after selling Virgin Atlantic stake

Date December 13, 2012 - 11:54PM





70% Off on All 1st & Business Class All Major International Airlines


Singapore Airlines' sale of its 49-per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic will allow the cash-rich Asian carrier to focus resources on its fast-growing regional market, analysts said Wednesday.
The Singapore carrier's tie-up with British billionaire Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic never really took off since the alliance began 12 years ago when the stake was bought for 600 million pounds ($A918 million).
Singapore Airlines (SIA) on Tuesday said it will sell the stake to Delta Air Lines of the United States for $US360 million ($A341 million) in cash in a deal to be completed next year.
SIA said it "had been evaluating strategic options for the stake for some time, as the investment has not performed to expectations and the synergies the parties originally hoped for have not materialised."
Advertisement
Analysts said SIA, consistently one of the world's most profitable airlines, had little say in how Virgin Atlantic was run by the flamboyant Branson, and the sale allows it to exit an underperforming investment in the troubled European market.
"SIA can now focus on investments in the Asia Pacific region," Brendan Sobie, a Singapore-based analyst with industry consultancy Centre for Aviation, said.
Sobie said it made more sense for Delta to have a strategic stake in Virgin Atlantic as there are more synergies in their trans-Atlantic network.
Jason Hughes, an analyst with IG Markets Singapore, said that despite the higher acquisition price paid by SIA, the $US360 million "will go down as a profit, as losses had already been accounted for in previous years".
Malaysian bank CIMB said in a note that the sale would give SIA a "short-term boost" but urged investors to focus on the long-term challenges posed by Middle Eastern carriers and budget airlines.
Shukor Yusof, an aviation analyst with Standard & Poor's Equity Research, said SIA can use the extra cash to "redefine its business strategy on top of beefing up its regional subsidiaries".
"It's also good to exit out of Europe because the market conditions there are quite atrocious," he said.
Shukor said conflicting management styles with Branson was one of the chief reasons why the alliance failed to prosper beyond a code-sharing agreement.
"Branson remained the controlling shareholder and he called the shots," he said.
Virgin Atlantic also did not have enough slots at London's high-traffic Heathrow airport for SIA to latch on in its bid to gain a share of the lucrative trans-Atlantic route to New York, Shukor added.
Analysts said SIA's decision to buy the stake in Virgin Atlantic in March 2000 was a good move at the time because Asia was just emerging from the 1997-1998 financial crisis.
But the centre of global economic power has since shifted to Asia, sparking a travel boom in the region.
Passenger traffic in the Asia Pacific is forecast to account for 33 percent of the global market in 2016, up from 29 percent in 2011, according to trade body International Air Transport Association (IATA).
"This makes the region the largest regional market for air transport, ahead of North America and Europe which each represent 21 percent," IATA said in a statement on their latest industry forecast.
SIA has been investing both in the premium travel segment, where it faces competition from Middle East carriers, and in the low-cost market where it is challenged by budget airlines.
SIA in June launched a long-haul budget wing called Scoot while maintaining a substantial stake in low-fare carrier Tiger Airways. It also operates a regional wing, SilkAir.
SIA and Scoot in October announced orders for 45 Airbus and Boeing aircraft. The orders came after SilkAir in August said it would buy 54 new Boeing planes with an option to buy a further 14 aircraft.
AFP

[Ultergra]

Jetstar IS the direction Qantas is taking..




THE competition watchdog has approved plans by Qantas to more closely integrate its operations with that of its low-cost airline Jetstar.

In a draft ruling, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has approved coordination between Qantas and its Jetstar operations in Australia, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan and yet-to-be-approved venture in Hong Kong on passenger and cargo services.

"The ACCC considers that the coordination is likely to result in public benefits to consumers by increasing the likelihood of additional Jetstar flights and destinations in Asia, and providing increased online connections for consumers," ACCC chairman Rod Sims said today.

In June, Qantas applied to the ACCC seeking approval for a Jetstar Joint Venture Coordination Agreement (JVCA) allowing the airlines to work together on matters such as network, scheduling, pricing, marketing, purchasing, customer service, frequent flyer and information technology.

"Under the JVCA, the parties propose to operate as a single, fully integrated organisation by coordinating their operations and activities in the Asian region," Qantas said in its submission.

"By adopting a single business model, the Jetstar group can achieve scale, generate efficiencies and deliver cost savings while optimising local execution."

Qantas said the JVCA would increase the "international competitiveness of a key Australian business by seeking to capitalise on the growth in demand for air travel services in Asia for its own benefit and ultimately the benefit of Australians".

The JVCA also proposed Jetstar's Japan, Vietnam and Hong Kong units being allowed coordinate services with their respective airline shareholders Japan Airlines, Vietnam Airlines and China Eastern Airlines.

Jetstar Hong Kong is waiting for regulatory approval from Hong Kong authorities.

The ACCC was seeking submissions from interested parties before issuing a final determination.

[maggot]

next step: repainting

[Angle of Attack]

I agree, it doesnt add up, a mass rebranding to QF for jetstar asia is far more likely than trying to connect QF pax onto jetstar from SIN. I recently flew jetstar OOL - NRT and back in their business class, and it was painful, real painful, i cant even imaGine what economy is like. And when i checked in at Narita it was amusing to say the least at several boxes of printer paper and boarding pass templates addressed to Qantas Airways Ltd Coward Street Mascot, then a sticker next to it forwarding to Jetstar Japan, who says they dont buy their own stuff?:ugh:

[Metro man]

Just move QANTAS International entirely to the Asian hubs, Australian destinations to be served as a turn around flight originating in Asia. Aircraft and crews based in Singapore, Hong Kong etc with far more favourable (to the company) tax and employment laws, and lower costs.

Singapore recently had it's first strike in 26 years, a number of Chinese bus drivers refused to work. The ring leaders are out on bail at the moment awaiting court dates, a number of the others have been deported.

Problem solved.:E

[moa999]

They would be better off having a code share with SQ and transferring their passengers onto Singapore Airlines flights for onward connections. SQ have multiple departures (6 or 7 flights a day) to a wide range of destinations which aren't practical to fly to via Dubai. Full service in economy, business and sometimes first class is offered to a high standard. You're not asking premium passengers to fly on Jetstar.

QF has tried unsuccessfully to deals with SQ for many years and couldn't reach an arrangement.
SQ is in Star and a shareholder of DJ.
There is more chance of PorkyPig Airline than a QF/SQ codeshare.

Doing a more comprehensive deal with MH, soon to join oneworld, is more foreseeable, but then KUL gets nowhere near the business demand as SIN so I suspect QF would only lose more passengers to SQ by switching services from SIN to KUL.

[Metro man]

At the moment QF can manage one direct flight between Brisbane and Singapore per day, next year when the hub is shifted to Dubai passenger numbers may decrease slightly as there won't be onward connections to London. Flying Qantas would only be suitable for those people who are only going as far as Singapore or those who don't mind stepping down to Jetstar for onward flights.

Singapore Airlines have three direct Singapore - Brisbane services per day which cater to people going to Singapore AND people with connecting flights to Asia and Europe.

The same would apply to other cities in Australia besides Brisbane.

Qantas may only be able to fly once a day to Asian cities while SQ and CX operate multiple flights on the same route with convenient, full service onward connecting flights attracting the bulk of the passengers.

Kuala Lumpur could be a good option to plug into Malaysia Airlines route network, the airport is underutilized and would probably offer attractive rates to promote itself as an air hub over it's rival, Changi. Same problem as before though, why not just buy a Malaysian Airlines ticket for the whole journey ?

Once MAS join One World, I wouldn't be surprised if QF start direct services from SYD/MEL to KL, with onward code share flights on Malaysia Airlines. However I doubt that Malaysia on it's own, unlike Singapore, has enough demand to support Qantas flights without connections. It may be easier to let MAS do all the flying from their lower cost base country and for QF to simply sell code share
tickets.

It may be more profitable to be a virtual airline instead of a real one.:hmm:

[Mstr Caution]

Joyce's announcement of Qantas Asian expansion must be seen for what it really is. A short term promise to get the Emirates deal over the line.

Joyce has no passion for Australian tourism, he's pulled out of the joint marketing deal with Tourism Australia and royally shafted 70,000 passengers and tourists when he grounded the airline last year.

Besides. Emirates have recently entered into agreements with Tourism Australia so why the need for Qantas too as well.

After grounding the airline last year, I thought at the time what was the logic behind alienating loyal passengers. Now I realise why, cause the Emirates deal will have premium passengers flocking to them in droves. That's the end game.

:(

[DrPepz]

I just got off an EK flight and there was an interview with EK CEO Tim Clark in one of the radio programs. Can't quote him verbatim but roughly he said the following

===========

"We have grown in a fashion no other airline in history has done"
"We approached Qantas.... they have a very strong brand don't get me wrong... but their international operations are struggling"
"We bring great value to Australians who can now get to many destinations without going through 2 or more stops"
"Qantas brings great value to us"
(Note: Very little was spoken about the value EK brings to QF)
Next he went on to talk about alliances.

"We have never been a fan of alliances"
We want our passengers to have the same plane experience from the beginning to the end of their journey. We have a strong product, we want to deliver a consistent product. Sending passengers through alliance partners means they do not get the same product experience which is what we want to avoid"
"Being in an alliance means other airlines tell us what to do, we have to follow this and that rule..... This is something we want to avoid"

==========

I hope Alan Joyce has listened to the interview. QF is about to get raped by EK. Notice how the QF flights to DXB require a 5-8 hour transit if you want to go anywhere but LHR (but why do you need to take QF to DXB and transfer to an EK flight to LHR) and FRA.

Perhaps EK does not want the QF flights to connect anywhere through DXB and want QF just to take their own pax from SYD and MEL to LHR. Tim Clark said in no uncertain terms that he does not want Emirates pax experiencing different airlines to get to their final destination. In this partnership, QF will be reduced to carrying pax who want to travel from MEL and SYD straight to LHR. EK will take everybody else.

[Metro man]

All he needs now is to find an airline to cover Asia in the same way he's got EK covering non London Europe and America for him.

QF will be reduced to a niche airline operating on routes where they don't compete head on with Middle Eastern and Asian airlines, and a few prime destinations such as London and Hong Kong.

Garuda may pose a threat in the medium term, with big expansion plans. Whilst not as well positioned geographically as the Middle Eastern airlines, they could still be a viable option for Asian and some European destinations. Just look at where QATAR Airways, Et**ad and Turkish Airlines were a few years ago.

[DrPepz]

Isn't this what Virgin Australia does with SIA? They basically codeshare with SIA and Silk Air on every flight throughout Asia. Difference though is VA started with nothing and are trying to grow by being a virtual airline.

QF actually was a real airline 15 years ago flying to more than Singapore, LAX, London. Really, QF's network outside South West Pacific in a year will be:

Singapore (45 flights a week)
Jakarta daily from SYD
Manila daily from SYD
Shanghai daily from SYD
Tokyo daily from SYD and MEL
London daily from SYD and MEL
Bangkok daily from SYD
LAX - from SYD MEL BNE
DFW - daily from SYD
Dubai - daily from SYD and MEL
Santiago - 3 weekly from SYD
JFK - daily from LAX connecting from SYD/MEL/BNE
Johannesburg: Daily from SYD
Hong Kong: Daily from MEL, SYD BNE, 3 weekly from PER

That's 13 destinations outside Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific. If you don't live in Sydney or Melbourne, Qantas can basically take you to Singapore and if you're lucky, Hong Kong.

I'm sceptical Perth-Hong Kong and ADL-SIN will stay for much longer. I'm almost positive PERSIN will be single daily in a year's time.

Who could cover Asia for QF? Maybe MAS? Their network is not nearly as big as SQ's though. But then they'll have a dual hub in SIN and KUL. The dual SIN DXB hub is already going to cause lots of problems with split flows of traffic because the SIN flights are really going to feed no where.

[Icarus2001]

"Being in an alliance means other airlines tell us what to do, we have to follow this and that rule..... This is something we want to avoid"
Really? I guess annoying things like flight & duty times and protection of workers rights might be in there somewhere.

[ohallen]

Who could cover Asia for QF? Maybe MAS?

Havent QF tried them all and failed to get to first base?? Even remember reading atleast one who went as far to say "Don't like the management" Wonder why that would be??

Whereas DJ/JB has them climbing over themselves to get more of DJ.

Says it all really.