Fatal EMS helicopter crash in Illinois

[helihub]

About an hour ago - EMS helicopter down, 3 fatal, no patient on board, en route from Rockford to Mendota to pick up patient. Program involved flies a BK117 but we await confirmation that this was the h/c involved.

Medical helicopter crashes near Rochelle, Ill. - chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-medical-helicopter-crashes-near-rochelle-ill-20121210,0,3611914.story)

A medical helicopter with three people on board has crashed on its way to a hospital in Mendota, Ill., according to the FAA.

The helicopter, which took off in Rockford, reportedly crashed in the small town of Compton, near the city of Rochelle.

A firefighter with the Rochelle Fire Department said the department began receiving calls about the crash shortly before 9:45 p.m.

[alouette]

How many more of this kind? Too many people died in the US helicopter EMS industry... Scary!

[hostile]

krpj 110455z auto 27007kt 7sm -sn bkn024 ovc036 m02/m04 a2996 rmk ao2 t10251040
krpj 110435z auto 27008kt 10sm -ra sct013 bkn020 ovc036 m02/m04 a2995 rmk ao2 t10251036
krpj 110415z auto 27008kt 7sm -sn bkn012 ovc018 m02/m03 a2995 rmk ao2 t10241034
krpj 110355z auto 26008kt 10sm -ra bkn010 bkn034 ovc040 m02/m03 a2995 rmk ao2 t10231032
krpj 110335z auto 27008kt 7sm -ra ovc037 m02/m03 a2995 rmk ao2 t10221030
krpj 110315z auto 27007kt 7sm -sn sct012 sct018 ovc035 m02/m03 a2994 rmk ao2 t10201028
krpj 110255z auto 28009kt 7sm -sn sct012 sct018 ovc033 m02/m03 a2994 rmk ao2 t10181028

[alouette]

Fatal Flights: Fatal Medical Helicopter Crashes Since 1980 (washingtonpost.com) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/medical-helicopters/fatal-crashes.html)

Does that suffice as homework?

[ShyTorque]

Another tragic loss of three crew members going out bring back just one patient. As we have discussed here too many times before, it's likely that these accidents will continue until the mindset changes, or the U.S. government mandates changes in the way this part of the industry is run.

But I'm not holding my breath either way.

[SASless]

What's the trend show?

Has the Industry/FAA initiatives worked to improve the situation? You are familiar with some of the changes put into place that had a distinct effect on how business is done and made for a much improved situation....or have you forgotten about that?

What was the cause of this accident.....do you know with certainty what caused it? Could it have been a mechanical failure completely out of the control of the crew?

I am the worst critic of the US HEMS system at this forum....but at this point....are we not being a bit premature to make any comments re this particular crash.....and in trying to ascribe cause/effect to the overall US system?

How many UK based HEMS helicopters operate daily.....how many operate routinely at night? Does the UK system provide 24/7 service to the entire country....rural and city?

Before you blather away....at least construct an Apples to Apples comparison for accuracy sakes would you?



Homework? Grade F given.....your data appears to be Seven Years out of date....and ends at year 2005. What has happened since then?

Take a few minutes and consider the information here......

http://www.signalcharlie.net/file/view/Rigsby+-+FAASTeam+Conference+Mar+2011.pdf

[Helinut]

Sasless,

Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting.

I was surprised to see 54% of US "HEMS" flights were inter-hospital transfer. On the other side of the Pond the proportion of such inter-hospital air ambulance flights is very much lower, I believe. That may change over the next 10years (in the UK at least) because we are moving to a system based on fewer regional trauma centres.

The quoted FAA definition of HEMS is rather different from the European one. In Europe HEMS is the on-scene landings part only, NOT inter-hospital transfer.

It looks like the UK is to launch an experiment over night HEMS (the JAR/EASA definition of HEMS that is). It will be interesting to see how it gets on, after a few years, by comparison with the US. I don't have direct experience of HEMS elsewhere in Europe, so I don't know how much night HEMS has been going on in mainland Euroland.

The 400,000+fh/yr (0.5M patients flown/year) for US HEMS is surely at least an order of magnitude more than we fly. You would expect many more US accidents.

My feeling is that much of any difference is the propensity for the UK/European authorities to prohibit flying. It certainly reduces accident rates if you ban something, or make it so difficult that it can't be afforded. The trouble then is that the aviation authority has nothing to inspect............... :}

[SASless]

The key is the rate of accidents more than the sheer number of them.

Likewise.....the cause of the accidents and the Industry/Operator response to reducing repetition of those accidents due to the same cause is what is important to me.

The other data that is worth noting is the number of helicopters in the USA by percentage of the World's total numbers, then factor in the US EMS fleet size, then compare the EMS number of accidents into the equation.

Of course we shall have far more accidents than elsewhere in the World....but then we are doing the vast majority of EMS flights.

Those of you in the UK need to combine the HEMS/Hospital Transfer numbers when you talk about comparative rates as otherwise there is no similarity in the definition of what you are comparing.

Then take a look at the map, crude as it is, showing the Base Locations for the US EMS helicopters and think about the sheer size of the area covered, the amazing differences in weather, weather reporting, Low Altitude IFR route Structure, FAA Radar coverage, and then add in Night which alone triples the Risk factor for flying.

Imagine....pretty much being able to dial 911....24 hours a day....and reasonably expect a fully equipped EMS helicopter to be dispatched to your location. Ours, for all of its faults, is an amazing system of medical care.

[Helinut]

I believe it is the case that the FAA"mission statement" includes the fostering and encouragement of aviation. Sadly EASA and CAA have an unbalanced remit (to make it safe(r)). The easiest way you can do that is by reducing or preventing flying, which IMO is where we are in European helicopters.

[Savoia]

Rockford Med Ship Down

http://www.trbimg.com/img-50c722bf/turbine/wgntv-3-killed-when-medical-helicopter-crashes-20121210/400/16x9
A Rockford Memorial Hospital EMS 'REACT' helicopter

http://www.trbimg.com/img-50c73b16/turbine/chi-medical-helicopter-crashes-near-rochelle-i-003/600
The crashed helicopter today

A pilot and two flight nurses have died today in an EMS related accident.

A witness said that the medical helicopter which crashed in a field near Rochelle, killing the pilot and two nurses, flew close to his house before flying into the ground.

“I thought it didn’t sound right. It sounded like it was going to hit the house,’’ said Michael Bernardin, a Viola Township highway commissioner who lives near U.S. Route 30 and Illlinois Route 251. "All of a sudden I saw this red light come out of the sky and nosedive right into the ground out here."

"I thought it was going to hit the house, but evidently the guy steered her clear of everything," he added. Bernardin said he and his wife jumped into their pickup truck and spotted the wreckage in their headlights around 8:30 p.m. Monday. "It was unbelievable, unbelievable," he said. "Oh my God, three people died."

The helicopter was registered to Rockford Memorial Hospital in Illinois and was enroute to pick up a patient at Mendota Community Hospital, officials said. The Rockford hospital identified the pilot as Andy Olesen and the two flight nurses as Jim Dillow and Karen Hollis.

Medical helicopter crash - chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-medical-helicopter-crashes-near-rochelle-ill-20121210,0,3611914.story)

Just seen that there is in fact a separate post on this accident from HH: http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/502560-fatal-ems-helicopter-crash-illinois.html


.

[homonculus]

Sasless is right - this is multifactorial.

Interhospital transfers have diminished in the UK - in the 1980s we were predicting up to 600 a year, but the NHS simply wont pay, and the government then broke up the teaching hospital / district general hospital structure which had and has the effect of diminishing the rationale to transfer sick patients. Children are perhaps the exception, but this need has been taken up by hub and spoke ground systems as they often need to occur at night (unlike adults in the UK) and despite the NHS mandating consideration of landing pads for all acute hospital builds in 1989, in practice most hospitals do not have them.

Although my background has been mostly in interhospital transfers, this block in the UK has undoubtedly avoided accidents. The ability to undertake this work without a HEMS AOC could easily have led to the proliferation of operators in the UK, had there been a demand, whose standards might have fallen short of HEMS operations.

Having worked both sides of the pond, it is clear the need to move patients in the US is much greater, and death can only be prevented by transfer in so many cases which is not true in the UK. We must be grateful for this as no matter how pro helicopter we are it is better to avoid the need to transfer in the night in marginal weather in the first place.

[Squeaks]

There are areas of the world outside the UK and the USA where 24 hour HEMS operate very successfully with an excellent record of operations. All aspects of med retrieval and inter hospital transfers, winch rescues, NVG ops, and civilian operators with proper oversight and approval by the statutory authorities.

Australia springs to mind.

[Jet Ranger]

...and Sweden & Norway !:D

[Anthony Supplebottom]

But what is the number of med flights (in hours per year) in Australia and Sweden and Norway compared to the number med hours flown in North America?

[topendtorque]

Imagine....pretty much being able to dial 911....24 hours a day....and reasonably expect a fully equipped EMS helicopter to be dispatched to your location. Ours, for all of its faults, is an amazing system of medical care.
Sasless,
This is not an industry that is about to downsize sometime soon nor is the Helicopter support for oil and gas. Just a few years ago, everyone was bewailing the fact that we had only twenty years of fossil fuels left, now this sort of information (http://catallaxyfiles.com/2012/12/09/shale-gas-good-news-for-brits-and-the-west/)is popping up. As usual much more information is contained in teh comments section.
The US could well be the next manufacturing giant as China winds down a tad and be importing heaps of good ol' Aussie iron ore, and - guess what - your HEMS activities will multiply tenfold. Now is a good time to refine as required. good luck.

tet

[onesquaremetre]

When a headline is no longer surprising, something has to be done.

[SASless]

OSM,

Using your logic....then I guess your Fire Service needs to invest in some heavy lifting gear as you Brits have a problem with Obesity.


Paramedics call firemen to help lift fat patients | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1587095_paramedics-call-firemen-to-help-lift-fat-patients)

[rpmsurfer]

My name is Randy Mains. Some of you may know me for my outspoken stance on the terrible loss of life I have witnessed for more than 33 years in the HEMS industry. I have read some very good points that have been brought up here.

I personally despair when I hear of yet another HEMS crash for I have been trying to sound the alarm and offer a solution to the problem since I first saw the deadly trend in HEMS crashes when I first flew HEMS in Hermann Hospital in Houston, Texas back in February 1979. At that time Hermann was only the second hospital-based program in America. Some of you may know that I wrote a book entitled The Golden Hour that was published 28 years ago, my way to try to sound the alarm back then that if the then current attitudes and procedures were followed more people would die. Sadly, that book has become prophetic.

James Wallis, the editor of the UK publication Waypoint AirMed& Rescue asked me if I would write an article describing my fix for the HEMS industry in the States, which I did. That article appeared in the August 2012 issue.

Some of you may also know that I have a monthly column in Rotorcraft Pro Magazine entitled My Two Cents Worth. I also write four long pieces a year for the magazine. In the October issue (link below page 30) that article was republished A Surefire Fix for one of the most Dangerous Jobs in America that I had written for the UK publication. In that article you can read all my arguments and my thoughts on the subject, why it is so deadly and my proposed fix.

http://content.yudu.com/A1vzrl/October2012/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justhelicopters.com%2 Ftabid%2F420%2FDefault.aspx (http://content.yudu.com/A1vzrl/October2012/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justhelicopters.com%2 Ftabid%2F420%2FDefault.aspx)

August 31st 2010 I heard of yet another HEMS crash in America killing 3 in Arkansas and for some reason that particular crash flipped me out. I was in Abu Dhabi at the time where I work as a Bell 412 flight simulator instructor and flight examiner for Abu Dhabi Aviation. I launched myself out the door at 10pm at night enraged at hearing of yet another HEMS crash. On that walk I asked myself over and over again what can one man do to try to bring about change? What can I do to bring about change? The scene from Network, the 1976 movie where a news anchor, Peter Finch, goes on a rant on TV and tells America to open the windows, stick their head out the window and yell at the top of their lungs, “I’m as mad as hell and I am not going to take this anymore.” During my walk I told myself I had to get on that stage at one of the annual air medical transport conferences and deliver my message as to how, if they finally get tired of burying their dead, I came to deliver the answer to all these HEMS crashes I had been witnessing for a third of a century. It surprised even me when I was standing on that stage delivering my message 13-months later.

Before the members of the audience filed in to the conference hall I had prepared 364 envelops each envelope containing an individual name of a person who had lost their life in a HEMS helicopter since I wrote The Golden Hour. Members of the national EMS pilots association plus my wife, Kaye, passed them out as the audience filed in.

At the end of my one-hour presentation I asked the members in the audience holding an envelope to please stand up. I then told the audience to look around to see how many people we have lost. The last 7 minutes of that keynote address that I gave in St. Louis to 700 people can be seen here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MTyUvPSMQg

I was invited back to be a keynote speaker at this year’s air medical conference in Seattle speaking about crew resource management. Now that the FAA has mandated that all Part 135 operators must have yearly CRM training I am hoping I can make a difference that way by facilitating CRM classes at air medical programs across America. Wish me luck.

Randy Mains

[onesquaremetre]

Thankyou SASless for 2012's most irrelevant post.

Best of luck in your endeavours Mr Mains.

[alouette]

I second to that!

[ShyTorque]

Randy, I'm so very pleased to see your post!

At least they let you speak, a major step forward (your thoughts echo mine exactly). Let's hope the industry will take the more important second step, i.e. realising that the USA is way behind the rest of the world in the way it allows this business to be run and actually doing something about it.

Every one of those envelopes contained the name of someone involved in a terrible personal tragedy and every one of them was only the hub of it. Many others are affected by an accidental family death, especially where it involves a family bread winner.

As the saying goes: "If you think having a good flight safety policy is too expensive - try having an accident instead".

Good luck with the campaign. :D

[Grenville Fortescue]

Randy, do you have any figures on the correlation between US-based EMS accidents and their involvement with weather?

What are we talking about here, 50%, 80%, 20%, what is the basic frequency of association?

[topendtorque]

Good post Randy,
Congratulations
regards tet
pm sent.

[SASless]

A few of the threads I have started about the US EMS Industry and its crashes, deaths, and causes.

Randy is not the only person that has spoken out....but he is too be applauded for what he has tried to do.

The Industry historically has not listened to those that rejected the lack of concern about genuine improvements to the situation. It took public scrutiny and the involvement of the FAA, Congress, and Insurance providers to effect change.

http://www.pprune.org/search.php?searchid=852755

A few years back, I asked a GOM Managing Director what it felt like to run a Company where he knew he would have to attend Funerals of Pilots every year. He got really insulted....but perhaps that might have played a role in the changes that took place at his Company that directly improved the safety standards.

In Past years......EMS Management must have had some very hard hearts as they bought new aircraft and hired replacement Pilots for the ones they lost in fatal crashes. It makes one wonder why they did not feel a need to change the way they did business as an Industry.

[alouette]

@ Randy; that was a heartfelt, and good presentation. I sure hope matters will improve!:ok::ok:

[hihover]

Whislt I support your driving force and the resolve you have to get the industry talking about it, I can't help but feel that talking to the industry is a waste of effort. Not because they don't care, but because they don't have control, the shareholders do. No company is going to choose to increase their operating costs whilst the competition is allowed to keep their costs low, that would be corporate suicide.

Legislation has to be the answer. Unfortunately, we, as an industry, hate to be told by the legislators - "this is what you have to do", because often the new legislation is an over-reaction and does not always target the issue.

The other issue, of course, is that most EMS flights in the US are successful and without incident, this is the argument from industry back to the legislators, so it will be an uphill struggle to get it right, but the writing is on the wall, this rate of EMS accidents cannot be allowed to continue.

Good luck Randy.

Tam

[tottigol]

1.Remove the customer from the decision making process.
2. Eliminate PROFIT.
3. Mandatory AUTOPILOTS.
4. Mandate Pilots' IFR CURRENCY and proficiency checks.
5. Do not tie the job location to Pilot's Home location.
6. Increase the number of AWOS3/ASOS stations, even in locations not tied to airports.
7. Want to open a "rural" base? You Operator install a monitored WX station.

Make that mandatory tomorrow, not in three years. The FAA is in the pockets of the Operators.


That would be a good start.

[skadi]

tottigol, whats the reason for 5. ?
:ok: for the others.

skadi

[Helinut]

ttg,

I did not follow item 5 either. I almost thought the opposite of what you wrote would be sensible (if possible)

[SASless]

The vast majority of Operators require you live within a short drive of your work place.....meaning in UK/European parlance....."No Touring" positions.

The Hospital will usually provide Rest Quarters (think Sleeping Quarters) for Pilots....which vary in quality, quietness, comfort, availability.

Thus what Tott is suggesting is allowing and providing for Pilots to live where they want and the Operator/Hospital provide accommodation for them while "On Shift".

That would ease the hardship on the Pilot when considering taking a job...moving the family....setting up a new household, schooling, jobs for the Spouse and the like.

Remember the US Helicopter Industry started with a "Take it or Leave it!" attitude as described by Mains in his article....that takes some real adjustment by the Operators in order to get to a true Pilot friendly work place environment.

[Gomer Pylot]

Coupling the job with the location means that if the base can't provide enough flights to make a profit there, then the base is closed and the jobs go away. Thus everyone at the base is pressured, or pressures, to keep the flight volume up no matter what. I think most, if not all, operators will offer positions at another base, provided they have more bases, but not everyone is willing to move. People do get concerned about fight volumes.

Taking away the profit motive is, unfortunately, not an option in the US. Profit is the golden calf, and drives everything. It would be far better for everyone if the government, federal, state, or local, would take responsibility for all health care, but that will not happen in my lifetime. Consider the uproar and hostility to even a modest increase in government responsibility through "Obamacare". Profit trumps everything here, and will continue to do so. The FAA has no choice in that at all. Congress will not allow any regulations which endanger the profits of large companies which make substantial campaign contributions (aka bribes) to members of Congress. It will not happen. Our present methods of campaign finance are disastrous, but the persons who can change it have a vested interest in keeping it the same, and the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited amounts to influence them. We're screwed. If you know of a way to change the entire political process in the US many of us are willing to listen, but nobody has discovered a viable way to do it yet. Profit drives the US HEMS industry and will continue to do so, no matter how much hand-wringing and pearl-clutching goes on across the pond.

[aclark79]

Thank you Randy!

I was in Riyadh when the almost accident happened. Both pilots were very very experienced and excellent sticks.

Having two pilots saved them and their crew.

[alouette3]

Randy,
After reading your article in Rotorcraft Pro, I bought your second book,which made compelling reading.
I have been in HEMS a little over ten years now.I hope to retire from this job.But, each day I despair about any real change in the industry.Thanks for what you are doing and I hope you and others will succeed.Otherwise, I might have to go fly somewhere else.
I do have one observation though.I have made this statement here and elsewhere and have been at best ignored and at worst ridiculed.
My feeling is this: when you talk about the 20 nationalities who think we are nuts, keep in mind that most of them come from a culture that is risk averse.Here in the US, we are a culture that is risk tolerant.The West wasn't won by cowboys doing risk assessments, this is the land of Wilbur and Orville, of the space shuttles and space programs.None of that would have been possible by people not taking risk.That is the 230 years of cultural baggage we carry.More than the almighty dollar, that is the mindset we are battling.
How would you propose to change that?
Alt3.

[ShyTorque]

Profit drives the US HEMS industry and will continue to do so, no matter how much hand-wringing and pearl-clutching goes on across the pond.

Shame you had to spoil a good post, which made sense, but you lost much of your credibility when you couldn't help but put in a so-predictable anti-Brit jibe to round it off.

But back to the nub of the discussion: Most of us understand the issues of profit driven aviation and how it is paramount in the USA, it's not actually a difficult concept to grasp because we have it in UK and the rest of Europe, too, believe it or not!

The safety problems come when the industry refuses to self regulate and unsurprisingly, any profit driven organisation will seldom willingly do so, for fear of commercial disadvantage.

We had a similar situation in UK some twenty five years ago but the CAA stepped in and made some big changes, which improve safety, albeit at no small cost. But at least the field was levelled for all players.

However, if the FAA can't regulate flight safety your side of the Atlantic (if not, what is it actually there for? A trade protection service, at any cost? I don't believe that, even if you do), then the industry will continue to suffer unnecessary fatalities and the rest of the world will continue to look on with increasing incredulity.

If you (as pilots) actually want a safer industry for the sake of all concerned, then something will have to change. I never cease to wonder why the industry's pilots don't get together and do something to improve things for themselves. Instead it seems that a surprising number of them seem to do nothing except to tell the rest of the world to mind its' own business and stand back while the losses of life continue. This situation seems almost Dickensian to we Brits; we gave up sending boys up chimneys many years ago.

There is a safer way, press for it.

[ShyTorque]

Alouette, we all take risks as aviators, there's no avoiding some of them. The point is, if there is an obviously safer way to do our business, we prefer to take it if possible. I say "we" but the regulatory body here sometimes needs to step in and lead from the front, because it is required to do so.

These days we should all be on the same side, not puffing ourselves up behind our egos and throwing bullets because that is the way our great great grandpas were forced to get through life.

BTW, I think some of our European ancestors took a few risks, too, and learned from it. Our so-called "risk averse" system is often driven by no-win, no fee lawyers. Something they learned from your side of the pond, I recall. ;)

[Gemini Twin]

This is not the first time that we have lost precious crews who were going to pick up a patient for a hospital to hospital transfer where the transfer was later made safely and at a fraction of the cost by ambulance!!
Can any one tell be why we expose these crews to these conditions.

[SASless]

Alouette and Gomer summed up the situation to a "T".

Shy....you misunderstand I believe. The CAA, JAA, EASA....are Risk Averse.....just look at the HSE Rules you folks have compared to ours.

It is not a Slam necessarily but it is true and we have heard you and others remark about the extremes that affect your operations.

All too many times I have heard discussed in Safety Meetings....Operational Stats and other "Commerical" issues with the caveat of "If we do not get our flight count up......"!

I left that American Centre of Excellence and its warm loving embrace over that attitude. There is going to be the much vaunted Memorial not far from their Corporate HQ in Colorado....and way too many of their number are going to be remembered there.

[Gomer Pylot]

I put that jibe in because of the predictable "Oh, those benighted colonials" posts that appear in every thread discussing an accident. We decided, circa 250 years ago, that we did not want to be like you. That attitude continues. Which is the better attitude is moot. The fact is, we (we being the collective US population, including the pilot community) don't want to change things. We're perfectly happy taking minimum wages and being enslaved to large, profit-driven corporations. Helicopter pilots in the US will never, ever stick together to get anything done. I've completely given up on that. It matters not who is wringing their hands, including me or Randy, attitudes are not likely to change in the short, nor the long, run. The truth is, most of us have been trained well to put ourselves first, and to ignore the welfare of the whole. We will not look out for each other. If you want an explanation, and an illustration of this attitude, just watch Fox New for a few hours, if you can do it without throwing up in your mouth a little. Like I said in my previous post, we're screwed, and things aren't all that rosy over there, either.

[I-IIII]

Hi
Shy why you dont go to the main european operators and just say: we all take risks as aviators.Think they will your ass out of europe in less then 5 seconds.You can take all the risk as u want when u are alone onboard................if you have passengers or flight crew just avoid any risk they dont have to pay your decisions .......:E

[ShyTorque]

I-III, The only way to have no aviation risk is not to aviate per se. I prefer to earn my living by aviating. Therefore I have to accept some level of risk and I have done the job about which we speak. However, I choose to minimise the risks over which I have personal control, to the best of my ability. I would not now fly single pilot night EMS in a non-autopilot helicopter (single or twin engined), in FAA land, or anywhere else, because I assess the risks as too great. In UK it's illegal in any case. We've been there, tried it. People died, the CAA stopped it. Now the dust has settled, we know it's a sensible rule.

In the USA they think they know better but they still fly themselves and their patients into the ground with sickening regularity. Irrespective of accident rates, each one of those accidents is a tragedy for someone. The stupid thing is, your industry routinely risks the lives of two or three people to save one casualty who might in some cases be transported by other means, or lifted from a slightly different, safer location in a slightly better equipped aircraft under IFR, rather than scud-running at low level in the dark.

Maybe some of this macho attitude comes as a hangover from Wells Fargo, Vietnam, or Top Gun. Or a widespread, institutionalised fear of instrument flying; I don't know.

I can see we are banging our heads on the opposite sides of the same brick wall.

Again, good luck to Randy.

[I-IIII]

Ok now shy I am with your idea ............minimise risk.For example in italy we do night flight wit 2 pilots and at least one with current IFR.And you have consider that we do not have any big areas,so the case of black hole is very very remote.here in africa is another story......

[Devil 49]

I work for the operator involved. I have never, repeat for emphasis- NEVER! had a decision to decline a request for dispatch questioned, critiqued or even ever mentioned by management. If argument is forthcoming from any quarter, management has always absolutely supported my call. I decide the risk I will accept, period.

I do have criticisms and suggestions for the industry and my employer. None of them affect the fundamentally sound principle that I should decide what level of risk I will accept at any point. Give me better equipment, data, and conditions * to accomplish my job, thank you. The equipment wish list might include a second pilot, augmented flight stability, power redundancy, etc. You're jerking yourself around if you see that wish list as a safety panacea. Every one of them comes with a history of unfortunate, unintended consequences.

There's a lot of discussion here and elsewhere about what are likely to prove to be irrelevant factors, equipment and regulation. If the prospect of a fatal mistake isn't sufficient to inform the decision, a law won't. All it will do is eliminate the potential for a good decision in otherwise favorable circumstances. No level of equipment makes one invulnerable to everything. The mistaken assumption that the equipment/pilot combination was capable of handling the reality will kill you just as dead in a whiskey compass only single-engine recip as it will in your flight in known icing land itself auto pilot multi-turbine. It's the pilot assessment of risk and capability that's key to the issue.

*
Conditions is an intentionally vague term in this statement. Training can always be improved, anywhere, any time, any operator. The US HEMS industry is no exception. I don't suggest that as an issue in this accident. I do think that the time that this accident occurred suggest that an issue exists with pilot scheduling in all phases of aviation, not just here in the US or in HEMS particularly.

[Helinut]

I am pretty sure that having the pilot as the sole arbiter of risk decisions will not prevent accidents. Some pilots some of the time are their own worst enemies.

I say this because I have lost a number of friends and colleagues through accidents where they put themselves in unaccountably dangerous situations. These were pilots that I knew and who, in large measure, I would have trusted to not make silly decisions. And yet they ended up dead (together with their pax) because of poor decision-making.

By the nature of the circumstances, I am unable to talk to them about why they did what they did, but I would love to be able to ask them.

[HeliHenri]

A very interesting comment :

Jim Hall, past chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, in the Rockford Register Star, Dec. 24, 2012 :


Helicopters and hospitals - Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-06/news/ct-edit-helicopter-20130106_1_ems-helicopters-veteran-flight-nurses-medical-condition)

.

[SASless]

The fact a crew gets killed flying in weather they had no business being in....in an aircraft not suitably equipped for IFR flight, and the flight was for a a patient that did not need to be transported by air.....what the heck....they were out there saving lives and died for the betterment of humankind and should be rendered Heroe's Honors....right?

When will folks see the fallacy in the way we approach EMS flying in this country? It is a mindset change we need....as much as anything else.

[ShyTorque]

And at the bottom of the page that link directs us to:

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