Source Of Avionics Knowledge Applicable To Australia?

[Sunfish]

Ok, we know about TSO 146,, TSO 166, but for the life of me I cant find anything regarding VHF requiremenst beyond a bald statement in the AIP about maintaining communications throughout a flight and 25 Khz channel spacing in an AsA document.

Is there anywhere a concise requirement list of what constituttes an acceptable radio for use in a VFR experimental aircraft? Such that it is possible to verify that a certain unit meets Australian requirments?

Without such information, I suppose it is possible to merrily spend a lot of money with Aircraft Spruce and other vendors with the possibility of getting told to throw it out because it doesnt meet our unique Koala based Australian Standards.

To put that another way, I can't even confirm that something for sale locally even meets requirements.

By the way, the GNS 430 and its replacements are out simply because I cannot for the life of me work out how to fit the VOR antenna on an all moving rudder.

To put that another way, I dont subscribe to the "buy it and fly it" school. It should be possible to confirm that things are fit for purpose.

[Arnold E]

By the way, the GNS 430 and its replacements are out simply because I cannot for the life of me work out how to fit the VOR antenna on an all moving rudder.
I have a 430 in my RV7 and an Archer VOR/G/S antenna in the wing tip. In my opinion the 430 is the best bit of kit around.:ok:

[Sunfish]

Thanks Arnold, good article, but my tips are very small and everything else is conductive.

[VH-XXX]

Is there anywhere a concise requirement list of what constitutes an acceptable radio for use in a VFR experimental aircraft? Such that it is possible to verify that a certain unit meets Australian requirments?

EASY.

A TSO'ed radio is not a requirement for experimental aircraft, UNLESS you are contemplating NVFR or IFR. Buy anything you like XCOM, Microair, Becker, Icom, Dittel, Garmin etc...

Start with your friends the SAAA, assuming you are a member already, they have a wealth of information on hand to assist you.

[Deaf]

Wrong

There are requirements for what can be used eg Icom:

IC-A6 AUS
AUSTRALIAN TYPE APPROVED Pilot & Ground Use Handheld

IC-A15
Icom’s most affordable (VHF) Air Band Transceiver (For Pilot Applications)

[VH-XXX]

Sorry Mr. Deaf however you are incorrect with your bold "wrong" statement.

Please check your facts before posting; No wonder Sunny is confused.

You are talking about the sale of APPROVED Radio equipment in Australia.

I clearly stated TSO'ed. The two are vastly different.

XCOM, Microair, Becker, Icom, Dittel, Garmin etc...

Are all APPROVED if purchased legitimately through the appropriate channels but the majority of them are NOT TSO'ed.

I will therefore re-iterate that for Day VFR you do not need to have a TSO'ed radio, but if you're talking about Transponders, different kettle of fish.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

By the way, the GNS 430 and its replacements are out simply because I cannot for the life of me work out how to fit the VOR antenna on an all moving rudder.Can't imagine Sunny why you would want a VOR on that spamcan you are building but if you gotta have one, get a bit of class and stick a boomerang on the top! :ok:

http://www.fototime.com/E82DC5C1C942F8A/standard.jpg

WrongAhhhh, you just gotta love Proone!

Dr :8

[Sunfish]

The boomerang? That would take 25 knots of the cruise. Then again, if I load too much electronics, the alternator load will stall the engine.......

[Deaf]

A TSO'ed radio is not a requirement for experimental aircraft, UNLESS you are contemplating NVFR or IFR. Buy anything you like XCOM, Microair, Becker, Icom, Dittel, Garmin etc...
I am aware of TSO requirements. HOWEVER for radios while you can
Buy anything you like
There is a requirement for approval before you can use it even for VFR experimental (certainly for transmission).

[Jabawocky]

Unless you want to fit a GNS430W for its ADSB compliant GPS qualities, any Microair or XCOM will do the job.

A really good quality and well priced radio is the Apollo......sorry Garmin SL40.

In my opinion one of the best ever. It beats our GNS530W hands down for in flight performance. And I do have half an idea what I am listening to :ok:

[Jabawocky]

ohhh........and once again.....advice is available, but you need to get off your arse and seek it Sunny.

I could have saved you hours of anguish, but for some reason you have failed to take advantage of that. Will have cost you thousands by now.

You really do impress me with something :ugh:

You can lead a horse to water, you can't make it enjoy the view!

[Sunfish]

Jaba, you have hit a very tender nerve, I just had a colonoscopy yesterday.

I am seeking advice, but I am anchored in Melbourne for the foreseeable future and my opportunities to engage with the aviation community are extremely limited, and when they occur, I tend to spend the time flying, Furthermore, the GA community in general don't seem to want to know, they just ask the LAME and pay the bill.

.....then of course there seem to be some people who don't have the time to tell you anything or are just plain anal (ouch again)

I spent a day driving to Horsham to look at the Dynon stuff and the folk who represent it here and Was impressed, but Frankly the rest of the aviation community down here is focused on big expensive aircraft, although there are gems like Cambridge for wire, Claire for paint, and that wonderful comedian at YMMB for metal.

What information that is available on the Internet on avionics seems to me to be either American or Europe specific or hopelessly general. A few posts on here demonstrate that there is not even a concise definition of what is required for VHF radios in Australia.

To put that another way, it took me Three effing months Two years ago to even discover under what legislative and regulatory instruments it was even possible to import and assemble an experimental category kit aircraft to satisfy myself on the legalities and ultimate weight limits and that process even involved three cryptic phone calls to the RAA technical manager which left me no wiser.

To put it another way, the rules and regulations don't " mean what they say", They are opaque and seem to be designed to keep people OUT of recreational aviation. Just do the MPC course if you want to know how convoluted things can get.

I asked a simple question and it appears that there is no simple answer from the comments here, or if there is one, then nobody wants to share it.

The reason I am asking questions is to manage risk the first of those is the risk of not producing a registerable and legally flyable aircraft. The second being legal access to C, D and E airspace which is personal requirement, and that is where approved equipment seems to apply.


I am reasonably dogged in tracking down information, some would say obsessive, but there is a limit. I'my approaching it rather fast (for example a propeller manufacturer -Airmaster- who won't answer emails) and I still have to visit an engine distributor and sort out the engine possibilities - and if that turns into some blood out of stone exercise then the kit will be chainsawed since I will not accept even the possibility of liability if I gave it to someone else.

To make it clearer, it is costing me $400 per month for space to build this thing. I am attempting to spend about four days a week building the aircraft, when not attending to a partner who has terminal cancer and a host of other matters. I Have been quite prepared to spend a week at a time of late evenings and early mornings researching oeverything from source and application of AN fuel fittings to Riveting techniques and tooling and I am not without technical skills and experience. The SAAA are a wonderful resource, of encouragement, but I have competing priorities as you might imagine, but I am time poor.

Under such circumstances suggestions that I could save thousands if I get off my backside are uncalled for.

[VH-XXX]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune Sunfish.

My advice in this instance would be to take the advice of others such as Jabba or heaven forbid myself for example, give one of us a call and determine that you don't need a Bull-sh!t filter and take it from there. I could also give you a number of other Melbourne based SAAA member builders that have already been through it all before. I've built and kitted aircraft before, so has Jabba and so have many others and all they want to do is help others do the same without dropping their life savings on avionics and the like.

The help is there and you only need to ask, it's just that posting in forums and browsing American websites is not the most effective method of gathering the information that you require in this instance.

[Jabawocky]

Tony and the rest of the Brand family at Horsham Aviation :D:D:D

Whether it be for a Dynon system or a turbo normalised upgrade on your Bonanza, great honest people to deal with:ok:

I would encourage you and anyone dealing with them to pay a fraction more. We need to keep folk like this in business.

They provide "Real Value"

[Ultralights]

Sunny, In my Savannah, all i have is an Microair radio and transponder, never had issues with class C or D. Navigation is provided by airservices paper and Garmin area500 as backup. and an ipad somewhere.

also, with a STOL aircraft, 3 things matter.. Weight, weight and weight.

[VH-XXX]

never had issues with class C or D

Shhhhhh.... ;) ;)

[Jack Ranga]

You complicate **** way too much Sunny :ugh:

[Jack Ranga]

I think part of what Jabalpur means by 'getting of your arse' is give him a call, I did & do, there are plenty out there who'll answer your calls. If you are time poor, get help. You'll make good friends & great contacts. Also, sometimes you are just gunna hafta pay for a bit of help