Another Downer

[Sunfish]

So if I complete the build of this aircraft, I am now required to fit ADSB - OUT equipment if I want to use it in C or E or above Ten thousand feet in class G by Feb 2014?

...And it all has to be TSO'd and installed by an Electronics LAME, maybe even with a detailed design to be done.

......And nothing American made for VFR will be allowed because we don't do TIS-B or UAT.

.....So I'm stuck with buying $10,000 worth of Garmin ****. (ES transponder and TSO compliant GPS)

....And I still don't even get ADS -B IN capability with that, and since I fly VFR I get no traffic separation service anyway. Total value to me = zero.

This is getting more surreal by the minute. There is going to have to be a decision point shortly about wether to bother with this project any more. I'll finish the last wing before Christmas. leaving only the fuselage to be done. I may not even start that.

[Jabawocky]

That is not quite correct.

More homework, and no you do not need an avionics lame to wire it up.

Arnold E is probably the man you need.

[Capt Fathom]

Total value to me = zero.

What value do you put on life Sunny?

[Sunfish]

Fathom, I put a high value on my own life, but the danger to me is other VFR aircraft, not IFR or RPT since they get traffic separation. I don't get that from other VFR and unless I fit ADSB -In and the other guy is fitted with ADS B out (which isnt mandatory) then total value to me = zero.

[Sunfish]

Jaba, I'm just about done with it. I can find the trig transponders. I'm very familiar with NMEA and then some, but I'm stuffed if I can find anything worthwhile about TSOd gps under 8000, unless there is some piece of crap made by king that doesn't interface to anything useful

I had hoped to use an all Dynon solution, but once that vanishes all I'm left with is a very very expensive Garmin system. I won't touch MGL for the reason that membrane switch technology is both highly unreliable and very short lived - I used to run a company that manufactured that stuff and it doesn't matter if you use the best quality materials, the switch domes eventually fatigue.

Trawling the Internet does SFA because no one cares about Australia and what there is is either speculative BS written Two years ago or howls of rage.

[Jabawocky]

Sunny

Other Mandates 2014-2017 | Airservices (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/other-mandates-2014-2017/)

Now for your needs.....for now and into the future, just install the TRIG transponder that integrates with the Dynon sky view.

Simple as that. Problem solved.

I do know but not at liberty to discuss publicly what is potentially coming from Dynon, not that you have to do it, but when it becomes available the option would be attractive indeed. So you are future proofed I believe.

As previously, I have offered to help but you have resisted the temptation so far.

Anyway..... your doom and gloom is not such. Cheaper to put in the TRIG than buy a GTX327, so go mode S and all is good :ok:

[The Green Goblin]

Sounds to me sunny that you should spend the money strengthening the factory firewall and on dual instruction for flare techniques.

Just me though :)

[VH-XXX]

So let me get this straight....

You're gonna take this bad-boy upwards of 10,000 ft?

You're gonna not want to be heading generally west as those altitudes Sunny Jim :\

if I want to use it in C or E or above Ten thousand feet in class G by Feb 2014?

http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/pic03/701_small.jpg

[Jack Ranga]

$10,000 worth of Garmin ****

Wash your disgraceful mouth out :ugh: Garmin ****?

You deserve a good kick up the arse with a size 12 Blundstone. :ok:

What **** have you put in your plane that is better than Garmin?

:yuk:

[Old Akro]

King, Sandia, Becker.

[27/09]

King, Sandia, Becker. Don't forget Apollo :ok:

[framer]

I have no solution for you Sunny but I am genuinely surprised that ten thousand dollars would get your attention. After reading your many posts about high level executive management strategy, and the companies you have managed at an executive level I had pictured you rolling in filthy lucre and ordering the best of everything for your aircraft. Anyway, good luck.

[Arnold E]

Don't forget Apollo :ok:

Errrr, Garmin.

I agree with Jack, Garmin is definitely not rubbish, however, I will agree its not cheap.
Actually Sunny, what do you expect your mission profile to be when you get your project finished?
You dont actually need all of the stuff that costs buckets of money. The most valuable piece of equipment in a homebuilt aircraft that is flying the mission profiles that are likely to be flown in such an aircraft is..............the mark one eyeball.:ok:

[27/09]

Quote:
Don't forget Apollo

Errrr, Garmin.

Well Yes and No.

Garmin couldn't build it themselves so they bought the company. The CNX80 ran rings around the Garmin units. While it might be branded Garmin now I wouldn't consider it Garmin. There's no Garmin input into its' design or manufacture. Apollo's earlier units weren't too shabby in their day either.

[Jack Ranga]

King, Sandia, Becker.Old Akro havin' a crack because of a reply to another post. :E

How about some non-certified gear that compares to Garmin, sport? :rolleyes: I believe that's what old cock was complaining about........

[Sunfish]

Panic over.

1. Re read the ASA FAQ and I just need the ES transponder, not the $$$$$$$ RAIM GPS.

2. Garmin isn't ****, I have Three of their GPS already. What annoys me is the vendor lock in marketing practiced by some American companies.

3. Framer, What I want is value for money. I would be delighted to fit adsb in and out if I can find a cost effective solution.

[Jabawocky]

......and thanks Jaba :ok:

Just buy the TRIG integrated unit for the Skyview, future proofed. :ok:

[Sunfish]

Thanks for your advice Jaba, I'm going nuts trying to work my way through the avionics maze.

I have been this way before - in marine systems, where I run vector and raster charts on a PC that gets wind speed and direction, gyro augmented magnetic heading, GPS data and feeds it all to an autopilot that adjusts for current and speed. The system also computes true wind speed and direction, velocity made good, leeway and a stack of other stuff.

The great lesson I learned was the truth in the old saying: "the man with one watch always knows what time it is, the man with Two watches is never quite sure."

The skyview system doesn't yet do ads b inwards on 1090 but I guess it one day will and it appears to offer an relatively straight forward development path.

I.m looking at using the vertical power electrical management system which integrates with the Skyview as well as a separate radio and transponder.

One possibility might be to get the Garmin 430 and be done with it - use it to feed the Skyview and the transponder for full Adsb out as well as provide nav functionality and backup moving map.

That leaves the single point of failure as the vertical power unit.

If that goes, the Rotax 912Is keeps running(I think, assuming the fuel pump power fails over to its second alternator along with the injection). I lose c/s prop control (no big deal) and I am Back to my steam gauge altimeter, airspeed and magnetic compass I've just purchased......what could possibly go wrong:}

[Jabawocky]

You don't really want ADSB in do you?

Or TCAS for that matter?

Relax......:ok:

[Sunfish]

If adsb in is available, then the skyview will display it. Whats not to like?

[jas24zzk]

the cost..........
but we think you already mentioned that :E

[mustakid]

A few very good bottles of Red wasted on an expensive hobby.?

[Sunfish]

Musta, we can't take it with us can we?

If I fit a Rotax 912Is then I need an electronic display for engine parameters. That might as well be a Skyview.

Since I live in Melbourne I encounter controlled airspace from time to time, so there is no point in NOT getting a mode S extended squatter AdSB out transponder.

ADSB IN requires a tiny cheap receiver. I expect Dynon will make the skyview compatible with someone's offerings (zaon and Dual have just released units) or make their own cover 1090mhz.

All I need then is a TSOd GPS.

After that I can spend all my time looking out the window because the Skyview can be configured to give audible alarms.

The cost penalty of a Garmin 430 over a free flight GPS is about 2000. That is offset by the inbuilt VHF and nav receivers.

[thunderbird five]

Like there's a lot of ADSB coverage around Melbourne for lighties.... NOT.
ADSB "SQUATTER"????? Is that someone who just turns up and sits in your plane forever?
It seems you know little about ADSB coverage, use & future in Australia:D
Spend your money, Julia needs the tax income.

[Sunfish]

Tbird, do your homework, an ADSB IN receiver is now about $600 and within a year or two they will be giving them away. Anyone with a glass cockpit will be able to display the data.

Furthermore, the FACT that GA aircraft will require an ES capable transponder for A,B,C,and E airspace in 2014 will mean that capital city training aircraft are going to need it.

Given the Fabian political model, I suspect that the TSO'd GPS will be made mandatory at some stage, but again, all our training fleet have one anyway.

Since I fly into/out of Melbourne I assure you that full ADSB will be very nice to have. The last time I was northbound in the VFR corridor, I had a total of Five aircraft coming southbound at me (Two IFR and Three VFR) with cloud at 2000. A kind and somewhat anxious ATC actually spent a few minutes separating all of us.