"Instructors"

[bladesp2]

Well I might be left of centre but the"instructors" I had, didn’t give a rats toss bag about teaching justwanted to clock up some hours and move on to the airlines .Too busy putting youdown for not knowing what they were supposed to teach you. Different studentinstructor every second week, and as for the school !:mad:.Well they wanted me toleave my log book with them, and when they closed not even an email to come andget it just chucked it on the bon fire with all the other ****e .What a pack of:mad: .As Steve Miller said "go on take the money and run”. I hope thisstill doesn’t go on?.They know who they are !karma

[Elfatness]

Sorry to hear you had such a woeful time with your school. I have had the privilege of having what I would consider to be some of the best instructors in the industry up here at Bendigo Aviation. I do feel sorry for you guys who seem to have had a bad experience with some flying schools. I consider myself very fortunate.
Hopefully it hasn't discouraged you to continue your lessons elsewhere!

[roundsounds]

I find you generally get what you pay for. The cheapest schools can't afford to pay proper wages, provide professional development for staff, maintain aircraft and make provision for fleet upgrades without charging the right price.

[in-cog-nito]

Sounds like RMIT again.
:rolleyes:

[A37575]

Never leave your log book with a flying school. It is not a legal requirement although some instructors will swear it is.

[jas24zzk]

i'd recheck that A37....its part of the student records until PPL is attained, unless on the CPL 150 course....been through this crap myself.

First thing I would do blades, is find a new school, you might need to look at a couple. Once you settle on one, they can direct a records request to the directors of your former school, for your logbook and training records.

Second thing I would do, is reconsider your position on jnr instructors. Not all (actually very few) care less about your flying than their own career, because as instructors, their success depends upon yours. You fail, they fail...no gain for them.

Getting rescheduled with different instructors is crap, it doesn't win any friends, or gain anyone anything. Only time you should be rescheduled is if your regular instructor becomes unavailable..i.e illness, you are under no obligation to accept the reschedule, unless you just want to go flying.

Being set up to fly with a different instructor is a different thing.....your regular might know in advance that he will not be available.your choice to fly or not then. You might be asked to fly with a different instructor to get a different view on an issue you have..........all set up to make you go forward.


You list your location as Vic..............bit generic.
If you are east of melbourne, you can't go past Yarra Valley Flight Training in coldstream. They will even take a booking to just chat to you about where you are at and where you want to go. I certainly reccomend you flying with Ian Ryan. He's a young bloke with a great future who cares about his students.

Cheers
Jas

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

An aero club in a nice country environment also has the advantages of -

Usually, a nice personal service,
No waiting in line to take-off,
You take-off and you are in the training area as soon as the wheels leave the ground,
Quite often, no landing fees,
You can do nice 'tight' circuits, = more landings etc per hour,
They might even have a grass runway - 'joy of joys'....
etc etc
You get the drift....

Good luck.

[bladesp2]

First thing I would do blades, is find a new school, you might need to look at a
couple. Once you settle on one, they can direct a records request to the
directors of your former school, for your logbook and training records.
I believe my log book and records were burnt in a mass shutdown and scuttle the ship type exercise, when they shut the doors , not giving a :mad: to who might be wanting their records :eek:I am so angry with no way to get those training hours back .:yuk:

[Tinstaafl]

Any chance you kept receipts? Or paid by cheque or CC? Then check your account statements for the amounts. You should be able to reconstruct a fair amount, if not all, of the flights you did. You could enter a Stat. Dec. in the log book to cover the missing instructor authorisation and/or try to get hold of your previous instructors to get them to re-do their entries. If you do manage to contact past instructors, their log book(s) will also have your flights in them so you could copy from them, too.

[Rotor Work]

If you have to leave your Log Book at the Flight School, take a "page photo" after each entry.
Regards R W

[Aussie Bob]

Blade, I am really sorry to hear your story but ......

It is normal to leave your log book with your flying school. Sorry you picked ratbags.

You don't say how many hours you accumulated but surely you have credit card statements, receipts, something to get a new log book started? Did you go solo?

Sorry, but I think it is time to move on and without more info I would even go so far as to say, get over it. There are good places to learn to fly, your experience will be apparant to a new instructor and life will go on. Get back on the horse or find something else to do.

[A37575]

It is normal to leave your log book with your flying school.

It might be normal practice around the flying schools but that does not automatically mean it is a legal requirement. The log book is a personal record of your flying experience and is a legal document. You are entirely responsible for its accuracy/true statements etc. It does not "belong" to the flying school at all. If the flying school management wish to check your record keeping is valid, then all they have to do is to ask you to present your log book for verification and then hand it back to you. That is a personal viewpoint based upon absence of anything specifically to the contrary, documented in the Regulations or Orders.

[Mach E Avelli]

I will second that. Your log book is 'personal' and should not be left with anyone. If CASA want it, they need to put it in writing, and issue a receipt when you hand it over. That does not prevent the CFI of the flying school, or a CASA Inspector or an ATO requiring to sight it (and sign it where necessary) while checking that your entries are kosher.
A lot of students are a bit bamboozled by flying school demands. You are the customer so you would be surprised at what you can negotiate. Capping the amount of ground time you are charged for during ATC delays, for example.
If they won't play, take your business elsewhere.

[glenb]

You have not lost your hours. A CFI of any school will be able to verify and sign off your hours. I have had this discussion with CASA. They are satisfied provided the CFI can justify his decision. It is well worth ringing a few flying schools to make an appointment with a CFI and discuss your issues.

Similarly, i doubt your training records have been burnt. That would be so unscrupulous that i doubt any flying school would ever do that. I suggest that a CFI of another school will be able to assist. The CFIs generally all know each other and i have little doubt that that can be sorted out as well. More likely they are locked away or in storage somewhere.

[lilflyboy262...2]

Aren't all records of flight required to be kept for 3yrs?

The planes logbook (forgotten what they call it back there now...its a tech log in africa and a journey log in canada) should have all the flights with who was PIC etc etc.

Its a pain to do, but the records should still be around. I had to go through this when my logbook was stolen.

[Clearedtoreenter]

Never leave your log book with a flying school. It is not a legal requirement although some instructors will swear it is.

I don't know whether it is a legal requirement in Australia or not but it certainly is not in other places in the world. I suspect it's more likely a myth that has been perpetuated as a result of restricted business practices that are common in the industry here, aimed at protecting the business of the School rather than anything else. The CASA decreed school training records have more than enough information to verify what training has taken place and to what standard. The logbook is and should be the personal responsibility of the owner.

[717tech]

We used to explain that we cross check them every month with our training records. You are more than welcome to keep it at the school or take it home with you, just remember to bring it to each lesson.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Not a legal requirement, but CASA will inspect them at audits and compare them to the student's flying record, the trip log, the MR, and the instructor's log book.

One less piece of paperwork on the premises = one less gotcha for a 0.1 error. :ugh:

It really is easier as a flying school operator to have all the student's paperwork on the premises - it means you can get the admin done after hours etc. Yes, the stude can take it with them if they want.

[bladesp2]

I had close to 130 hours had passed my gfpt and first nav of those 130 hours over 60 hours pic .I am worried its all lost :eek:

[baron_beeza]

I would not worry too much about it being lost.
The only thing missing at this stage is your log book.

There will be so many other records still kicking about. As the others here have said many other records will be available to reconstruct a log if necessary.
The aircraft will have records, even better the instructors will have all details of each of your dual flights. You may find copies have been taken during audits an they will be with CASA or somewhere also.

You will also have all the invoicing and financial side of it recorded somewhere.

If all your flying as been in one location then it should not be so much of a drama at all.

You may not get and every flight but every step increments of even 10 hours would imply a level of experience and proficiency.

No way has the clock been wound back to zero..