Pilot training good for other jobs?

[Sovi3tskiy]

Hey Guys/Girls, I was wondering, if the pilot training would be useful for any/other career?

The thing I always hear is "do a degree in something to have it as your fall back plan", but if you didnt, could the skills you learned be valuable for anything else, especially if you are say only holding a frozen ATPL?!

[FANS]

Having a fATPL for another career is a problem, as employers will assume that you'll disappear as soon as a flight deck position comes along.

[Sovi3tskiy]

Yeah I can understand that, its a valid point, but I was thinking more on the lines that you didnt for what ever reason want to/or can become a pilot (say medical reasons or family or what ever there is...), would your skills be valuable to somewhere outside the cockpit?

[gordonquinn]

No I don't think so, not in the way that say a law degree can fast track you through the police or something. It will show you are intelligent and technically minded yes, but as previously mentioned, you will not be seen as reliable, you will be considered to be falling onto a backup plan, or a short term plan to see you meantime until a potential pilot job comes up.

[Sovi3tskiy]

If you had no interest in becoming a pilot, why on earth would you do the training to get a licence? Your post makes absolutely no sense.

Im sorry it appears you have missed the question, I am not asking weather it makes sense, just weather there are good possibilities in other career sectors, be it other aviation related work or something completely new. And to give you an example of what I mean by not flying is say someone got their fATPL, a month later they are in a car accident/illness (or anything else you prefer to think of), their medical is refused and they no longer can fly, what options does their pilot education give them...

[PURPLE PITOT]

As stated above if you could fly again, sod all. If there was no possibility of flying again, then it would help you in the flying industry, ops, dispatch etc. But thats about it!

[Slipstream86]

Probably none at all whatsoever. Which is exactly why all wannabes must be very strongly advised to seek alternative qualifications before taking the plunge.

[driftdown]

It didn't help me in the slightest.

After completing training I worked for an agency driving vans / council trucks etc and whenever I pitched up at a new location it was " oh so your the pilot". Being flat broke was a great leveller.

[spider_man]

It didn't help me in the slightest.

After completing training I worked for an agency driving vans / council trucks etc and whenever I pitched up at a new location it was " oh so your the pilot". Being flat broke was a great leveller.

Lucky you I say. Alot of unemployed pilots I know cannot even get a job stacking shelves at Tesco... overqualified I assume.

[hvogt]

The other day I saw an advertisement for a job as an apron controller at the airport in Hamburg. They were specifically searching for someone holding and willing to maintain a valid CPL.

While this is one example of one job where a pilot licence was a useful qualification, I tend to agree with the previous posters who have said that generally a commercial licence is rather an albatross when looking for a job outside the flight deck.

[aozc]

Not outside aviation, it's more of a disadvantage I would say.

[driftdown]

Things have probably changed a lot since 1994.

Eventually working minimum wage and lack of piloting opportunities took its toll and I gave up the hunt and returned to my previous occupation.

[taxistaxing]

would your skills be valuable to somewhere outside the cockpit?


Having a PPL is a great talking point in job interviews and one I have used myself, but anything beyond this? Probably not.

Apart from the fact that nobody outside of aviation will have a clue what it is, a fATPL gives you a very specialised skill-set which has limited application outside the cockpit. What skills does it actually give you? An ability to fly a multi-engine aircraft, in IMC for reward. And that's about it.

The biggest problem you would probably face is convicing your potential employer you weren't going to rush off to be a pilot at the first opportunity. If as you say you were prevented from being a pilot for some other reason, wouldn't they then be worried that they were "second best" to what you really wanted to do?

On the other hand I can very well see how you could build and demonstrate skills relevant to being a good pilot in non-flying jobs, for example: attention to detail; working under pressure; ability to work in a small team. I struggle to see how it could work the other way round, unfortunately.

[G CEXO]

My 2 cents worth:

I worked as an Area Sales Manager for a blue chip company, great benefits, working from home, company car this that and the other. In between I completed my fATPL on the modular route. My first mistake, I handed in my notice so that I could complete the CPL/MEIR Full time.

After the course, and now with a fATPL, I decided to hit sales sector again waiting for the first exclusive job.

Never thought at any point that it would be this difficult. No one was interested in me or my previous experience within the sales sector. That was shocking as I was closing very large deals at director level and hitting sales targets of £3M.

Now, although I'm in a better position and in a holding pool awaiting placement with an airline, still no luck on the job front.

[taxistaxing]

I decided to hit sales sector again waiting for the first exclusive job.

GCEXO, Sorry to hear you're struggling on the jobs front. Out of interest, how have you explained the gap on your CV for the time spent training?

I imagine you're between a rock and a had place. If you're truthful about what you've been doing, no-one is going to hire you, leaving you with a gap on your CV of a few months and no easy way of explaining it.

[LS-4]

Which is exactly why all wannabes must be very strongly advised to seek alternative qualifications before taking the plunge.

Agree. Under most circumstances, at least.

Public knowledge about the industry and conditions faced by many new pilots seems limited. I've found that some employers outside aviation wonder why on Earth a commercial pilot would seek to work for them. I guess it's understandable.

Staffing agencies seeking labour (skilled or unskilled) for temporary assignments might be an option for some people during tough times with no work to be found elsewhere. Not that they necessarily have much to offer.

In addition to the various jobs within the industry, government bodies such as the CAA might be of interest in some cases.

[FANS]

There's a big difference between wanting to return to your old career because you're waiting for a flying job to turn up or returning because you tried flying and can't/now don't want to do it professionally.

[Cessna 172S Skyhawk]

Think of how many exams you do for you ATPL's. 14 in total. For example Met. You would have a solid foundation in Met. You could go on to study further in Meterology and go work as a weather analyst. Human Factors/Performance, is there any reason why you could not do a little more study and become a consultant in Human Limitations/Performance in the area of performance sports?Aircraft Technical - study a little further and you could look at becoming a aircraft mechanic/vehicle mechanic etc.As a response to your original question, I would suggest that you have a good foundation in many practicle areas, which with a little further study/education/qualification, you could very easily slip into another industry.

[aozc]

Well, the level of knowledge in each ATPL subject takes a week or two to learn and it's very very far from being indepth going.

There is very little use of a flying background in other fields. Of course, if you have made it through all of it they will know that you are able to learn and adapt and maybe that you are not a risktaking adrenaline junky but other than that, I wouldn't expect cutting any corners careerwise.

[Piltdown Man]

...you could very easily slip into another industry.

C172S - I hope you have not done the exams. The names of the exams have almost nothing to do with the content. A pass in every subject is even more useless than an art's degree. For a start, you wouldn't be eligible to apply for for a job where some numpty has written "Only applicants educated to at least degree level may apply for this pivotal role within this dynamic organisation" in the ad.

The level you study subjects at ATPL is superficially pointless and virtually un-transferable.

[Dan Dare]

HR would almost certainly filter you out for being too aviation orientated (perhaps a bit tongue in cheek, but not much), but an ATCO job is not too shabby and the background ATPL reading could make ATCO exams a bit more interesting...

[taxistaxing]

There's a big difference between wanting to return to your old career because you're waiting for a flying job to turn up or returning because you tried flying and can't/now don't want to do it professionally.


I'd agree with that, FANS, but would also say that a lot of recruitment decisions are taken with a 'cookie cutter' approach, and anyone that doesn't have a standard bacground and experience is simply rejected out of hand. This is particularly the case with the economy being the way it is, and a surplus of applicants for most jobs.

A fATPL on your CV will take quite a bit of explaining, firstly because no-one will know what it is and secondly to then convince them you won't just dash off to become a pilot at the first opportunity.

I guess that's an advantage of the modular route - you can do your training alongside a job to prevent gaps on your CV. :ok:

I would also strongly disagree that any of the ATPL exams offer a springboard into a related career. They are just too superficial (although it doesn't feel like that when you're studying for them!) A pass in HPL doesn't qualify you to be an AME any more than one in MET qualifies you to become a weather forecaster, unfortunately.

[LS-4]

C172S - I hope you have not done the exams. The names of the exams have almost nothing to do with the content. A pass in every subject is even more useless than an art's degree. For a start, you wouldn't be eligible to apply for for a job where some numpty has written "Only applicants educated to at least degree level may apply for this pivotal role within this dynamic organisation" in the ad.

The level you study subjects at ATPL is superficially pointless and virtually un-transferable.

A few FTOs in Scandinavia have successfully incorporated the ATPL(A) theory course as part of a B.Sc. degree with additional academic subjects included. This has been done in cooperation with some operators with an apparent eye for pilots with additional competence desired by the industry, i.e. for admin positions etc. Don't know if this sort of thing exists in other countries.

I agree that the ATPL curriculum in itself will in most cases be of very limited value outside the cockpit or some other areas of the industry. I'm not aware of any possibilities for getting any credit for it and assume you have to start from the bottom (at least formally) if you want to pursue a degree in meteorology etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong, C172S.

As for commercial pilot training as a whole, I believe it allows you to further develop a range of different qualities depending on your level, i.e. responsibility and skills related to learning, precision, cooperation, communication, SA, tackling relatively high workloads, motor skills and so on. Convincing employers who are not familiar with it can be another matter, though.

[Jugs08]

This thread is ridiculous
, I completed my FAtpl on the Friday and had 3 job offers for the next week. At18-20k with bonuses to 30k. And they knew I was going to be Off when an opportunity came. Theres plenty of jobs out there for good people. An it will always be that way.

[clunk1001]

is there any reason why you could not do a little more study and become a consultant in Human Limitations/Performance

:ugh:

172 - You clearly haven't done the exams. Or perhaps have little understanding of consulting. The syllabus for ATPL human factors covers less than 1% of what you'd actually need in order to be a consultant in that area. Unless by 'a little more study' you mean 5 years at university....?Same goes for most of the subjects - they merely scratch the surface of the subject area.

From a recruitment perspective it is likely to be a disadvantage.
Jugs08 - did they recruit you because of your fATPL? Or more likely your personality and/or related experience? Yes there are jobs out there, but an fATPL won't help you get one - it is useless outside aviation (and let's face it - pretty useless in Aviation at the moment). :ok:

[Down at the club]

@john_smith (http://www.pprune.org/members/316391-john_smith): This is actually a good question - one that deserves a more thoughtful response than ‘duh why did you do the training, etc etc, you make no sense’

Believe it or not, it does happen that one can train for a specific career/ profession, and decide that they no longer wish to proceed with it - be it temporarily, or permanently. It does not take a genius to understand why someone might consider moving on and giving up with aviation at this time. There are frankly many reasons – perhaps try reading your own post again, and thinking about it...

@Sovi3tskiy (http://www.pprune.org/members/398364-sovi3tskiy): I hold a CPL, ME/IR and have completed the 14 written exams (fATPL, if you like), though now work in financial services in London. In my experience, having a professional pilots licence on my CV has aided me professionally in this sector. At the very least, it makes you a slightly more interesting person in the interview, and workplace.

[Mickey Kaye]

having lost my medical in 1994 i can assure you the are no use what so ever.

in fact by 2.5 tonne counter balance fork lift truck rating was.

also no uni or college would recognise it either.

they were tough times

[cc86]

Being a pilot will certainly help you if you wanted to apply to study medicine. Being responsible, comms, team work, long hours, ability to think under pressure, professionalism, lifelong learning, committment etc will all go down very well and almost certainly get you a place at medschool. It's all about how you sell yourself - alot of employers would be looking for those sort of qualities...

[taxistaxing]

Being a pilot will certainly help you if you wanted to apply to study medicine. Being responsible, comms, team work, long hours, ability to think under pressure, professionalism, lifelong learning, committment etc will all go down very well and almost certainly get you a place at medschool.


Not sure I see that. Most of the med students at my uni were brainboxes with 'off the scale' GCSE/A level results (though not always the best people skills :} ). The characteristics you mention above apply to almost any career, and can be developed in a variety of ways.

[Mickey Kaye]

cc86

i can assure you that a fatpl is of no use when applying for medicine

[RVR800]

Mickey is right there are no UCAS points awarded for ATPL exams passes or indeed any pilot qualifications which is unfortunate as it doees require some formal training and examinations.

It may get a tick in the interesting person with alternative interests box though

[Langeveldt]

I don't even mention flying when it comes to looking for jobs outside aviation, save for a PPL which I just say is a "hobby" and can demonstrate I have the aptitude to fly a plane.. And yes, interesting person with other interests is vital nowadays, but I wouldn't mention it if you've got a comm..

The problem comes in explaining what I've been doing for the last 5 years..

Ideally I shouldn't even be looking for a job outside aviation, but such is life

[Halfwayback]

Sovi3tskiy

I think you will agree that you have had some useful responses from all aspects. I shall close the thread.

To add my two pennyworth, the training that you receive is commercial aviation pilot specific and although some of it can be of interest outside aviation it is not a transferable qualification. I speak with the experience of two previous careers in excess of 7 years and currently have over 12k hours.

My advice to you is that it would be an expensive and superfluous qualification if you did not want a career in commercial aviation as a pilot.


HWB