RQAC JGR mayday at Kagaru

[seavenom]

Any details on incident at Kagaru?
Hope all are ok.

[MadMadMike]

Pilot survives Beaudesert plane crash (http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/pilot-survives-beaudesert-plane-crash-20121107-28xxe.html)

[Horatio Leafblower]

http://images.smh.com.au/2012/11/07/3777029/plane_729a-620x349.jpg

...that'll buff out!

Hat off to the driver, you're a lucky lucky boy/girl.

[Ando1Bar]

Was he conducting forced landing practice at Kagaru?

I would have expected to see fuel leaking with damage like that!

[27/09]

The area around looks pretty flat WTF happened for it to get so scratched?

[Trent 972]

That photo above, has a little bit of "The Gods Must Be Crazy" about it.

[Creampuff]

Indeed, T9.

Perhaps the aircraft was in the course of a perfectly normal landing roll, but then a Coke ™ bottle loomed in the windscreen, causing catastrophic failure?:confused:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Geez this site is slipping!

I thought we would have worked out the cause and written the report by now.

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Golly I'd love so see the impact in slow motion!

Here you go Dr, in the absence of Planky.

Assuming that someone didn't tamper with the wreckage... and it looks like the wing was lifted over to get the pilot out, however that seems strange as fuel would probably leak out.

Prop looks like it was potentially delivering power at impact.
It didn't roll over (from rear to front).
It didn't plough in nose first.
It looks like it belly flopped with minor forward speed.

Either way, a lucky boy or girl indeed!

But still, I'm gonna need the TAF for a full analysis and de-brief ;)

Someone also please post a picture of the aircraft from airliners . net when it was in flying condition so we can all comment on that.

[VH-XXX]

Never mind, I found it myself:

From Airliners.net

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/5/4/1419453.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/5/4/1419453.jpg

[Ixixly]

I dunno XXX, from having a quick look at the undercarriage it seems to have moved in a rather upward fashion rather than backwards suggesting something akin to an Aircraft Bellyflop! This may explain the wings buckling at the root from the downward stress created by the fuel in the tanks.

Also in your airlines photo it CLEARLY has wheel fairings attached which appear to be missing and presumably pilfered, so god knows what other vital pieces of evidence have been removed...

[ebby1028]

At least it had a cargo net, I'm sure it helped!! CASA will be impressed, wanks:ok:

[Ascend Charlie]

I was impressed by the wing folded over the roof, and the door attached to the strut, highest of all, waving in the breeze like a flag :eek:

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Prop looks like it was potentially delivering power at impact.

With the tip bent backwards?
Unlikely.

[VH-XXX]

The usually only bend forwards under high power settings if that's what you are referring to MIHC.... Low power at a guess.

Yeah, it's got insurance written all over it ! (Perhaps because the insurance company now owns it :-) )

[The Green Goblin]

You don't bend it like that and walk away everyday.

Skill, or luck who knows.

Speaking to planky it looks like a classic case of a stall, wing drop and strike then belly flop.

Lack of spilling fuel from ruptured upside down tank and subsequent post impact fire says one thing to me - A very lucky Pilot!! :hmm:

[Trojan1981]

Very glad he survived, but how the hell do you make such a mess of it in such a wide open space?! I don't really care about the aircraft being smashed to bits, but surely self-preservation instincts would prevent you from inducing such a vertical approach trajectory?! :eek:

[VH-XXX]

Servo, I think you missed the sarcasm emoticon regarding the insurance comments, it looks to be a throw-away line. There's no way in hell that anyone would go that far for an insurance job! and I really don't think that someone hiring from RQ would be thinking about their insurance policy.

Good point Trojan. It looks like there was a fair share of vertical speed involved but not a ridiculous amount otherwise it may have flattened more. Surely you couldn't get that much damage from flaring too high could you and belly flopping slightly nose first? I assume if it was spinning the wing might have bent backwards more. Would be intersting to see the final resting place of the port wing if in fact it has been moved post accident.

[PLovett]

My suspicion is that the port wing was in a similar situation to the starboard one and that the rescue crew, using a hydraulic cutter, sliced the strut and any other impeding bits to be able to retrieve the pilot who, according to the links, was injured.

Looks like a stall from sufficient height to "pancake" the airframe. Its a bit hard to see but it looks as though there may not have been any flaps out but stand to be corrected on that. Possibility (AND ONLY THAT) is an engine failure/problem that was not well dealt with and, perhaps, engine, fuel and master all switched off before contact with the ground.

[VH-XXX]

I have a photo in m email that I am unable to post right now that shows it from the rear with rescue crews at work, shows more clearly that cutting took place. Looking at it more closely again as posted above, a lot of cutting has taken place to get him out....

[Rotor Work]

XXX Wrote
I have a photo in m email that I am unable to post right now that shows it from the rear with rescue crews at work, shows more clearly that cutting took place. Looking at it more closely again as posted above, a lot of cutting has taken place to get him out....

From the 2nd post & Video
A pilot suffered a cut to his nose and a fractured leg after being thrown 50 metres from his plane when it crashed into a paddock south of Brisbane yesterday.
The injured 46-year-old pilot crawled back to the wreckage of his Cessna 172 after it crashed at a property in Brookland Road


If he was thrown 50 metres from his plane why the hell were the rescue guys cutting the aircraft up for XXX? :ugh:

Fly Safe
R W

[PLovett]

The pilot was "....thrown 50 metres from his plane when it crashed....." and then crawled back to the wreckage...........highly doubtful. :suspect:

What did he do.............forget to put the control lock in? :hmm:

The media does say some highly original things some times. :mad:

[VH-XXX]

You can decide for yourself.... those metal bits didn't cut themselves and I don't know why they dragged the pilot 50 metres back to the aircraft to work on him and fit his neck brace ;) I suspect that they meant that wreckage was strewn 50 metres perhaps...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/crash.jpg

[puff]

Almost looks like he autorotated, very lucky to get out of it by the damage inflicted.

Those that questioned the maintainance, RQ used to have all their work done by Rapair, and unless anything drastically has changed their work was always top notch, certainly were by far the best on the field.

[ops_guy]

Some people have suggested that the left wing may have been cut and placed in its final resting position by the rescuers. I thought this was a possibility too however the pilot that spotted the wreck from the air before rescuers arrived stated that what we see with that wing is how it was as a result of the impact. Make of it what you will - it certainly must have been a violent ride (or perhaps he was in fact thrown clear of the wreckage which saved him from more severe injury)!

[flywatcher]

Inflight structural failure becomes a possibility. We will soon know if the AD's start emerging.

[solmanic]

VH-JGR was a good unit with a brand new motor - climbed like a champion. A bit untidy but only cosmetic, the mechanicals were always sound when I flew it.

Talking to another student pilot we have our opinions as to what happened. The crash site is just south of Kagaru, a privately owned grass strip in the training area commonly used for PFLs by students. One instructor (no need to mention names) routinely demonstrates his preferred EFATO technique wihch involves a 180 degree limit turn without power to land back on the runway in the opposite direction.

Based on the fact that the plane appears to have hit on its left wing which is shown folded right over the top, it is possible the pilot was attempting this manouevre and stalled. Would have been a very low speed impact judging by the fact that the fuselage is still all attached. I reckon he was in a steep left turn and the wing dropped in the stall, impacted the ground and the plane cartwheeled landing back on its wheels. Wheel struts are fully collapsed but as others have pointed out, not swept back so very little forward motion on final impact. The pilot's door can be seen still attached to the top of the wing strut so it's likely that as the plane rolled the door peeled away with the wing and he was spat out on the ground. So very, very lucky.

[solmanic]

Someone also questioned the report stating that the pilot crawled back to the plane... With RQAC's procedures he was probably just trying to get back to give his ramp in call and finish filling in the flight log.

[Ando1Bar]

People can't wait for a bit of RQAC bashing can they?

Back to topic, I've been told the pilot was practising forced landings nearby (Kagaru?). Any chance carby icing or plug fouling after the long glide contributed to a lack of power during the go around? The plane has come down very hard - was it then stalled from the attempted go-around?

I think it is extremely unlikely there was an inflight breakup - the plane would be in many more pieces if that was the case.

The eye witness reports the pilot was out of the plane when he got to the aircraft soon after the crash - the pilot wasn't cut out. Although I doubt he was thrown '50 metres'.

Those questioning the maintenance, go to the CASA aircraft register and see who owns the plane (not operates it). The owner maintains their aircraft, and others, to a great standard.

[j3pipercub]

Cmon Ando, don't spoil the bashing, it's a Friday, we gotts to bash someone...

[Ando1Bar]

And I've probably become the target with my plankbender impersonation.

Where did he end up?

[solmanic]

As far as I'm aware, the maintenance on RQ's cross-hire planes is done by the same mob as their own ones. JGR was a good unit with a brand new motor just last year or early this year.

[magnum pi]

I have somewhere in a box of old photos, a pic of a C172 that looks almost the same (bar the bit the fireys cut).
The aircraft was operating at low level and stalled, clipping a tree then impacting at about 45 deg nose down. The torn fuselage around the rear window and other damage looks familiar..
The U/C mount has a bolt through it that snaps on high forward (or backwards !) impact that allows the leg to rotate up or back.
Guess the ATSB will work out what happened..

This chap is very lucky, the one i helped recover was not. :sad:


PI

[Jabawocky]

Ando, fouled plugs I doubt, mind you with the mixture management that gets taught I could be very wrong. :ugh:

As for carby ice, I think you have nailed it. :D I think you could even be a touch better than Planky, you are most likely correct! :ok:

Was a Tecnam damaged a bit like that during a similar event at Hazelton a year or two back, student claimed he had forgotten his check list, and became busy head down doing that when the ground jumped up to bite him :rolleyes: Now I did struggle with that concept at the time, but maybe it is possible, and repeatable :ooh:

[Ando1Bar]

It was common to experience some coughing and spluttering from the engine during a go around in a 152 or 172n following a practise forced landing. It was even worse it the power wasn't cycled properly a couple of times or if the throttle was advanced too quickly. Not saying this is what happened, but I've had a couple of 'oh crap' moments down at Kagaru despite applying the correct engine handling and airmanship techniques.

Out on solo training exercises you often wonder what students actually get up to. Despite the best instruction, there's a good chance they will be so task focused and forget to cycle the engine. This could end up being a good case study if it ends up being the case.

Jaba, not debating your comment, but why would a degree of fouling not be a potential issue? Given the conditions around SEQ this week, carby icing could easily be a likely problem though.

[notmyC150v2]

Well for what it's worth, here is the pilot's version of events.

Pilot tells of 'lucky' escape (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/pilot-tells-of-lucky-escape-20121109-292xc.html)

This bloke would have to be luckier than the lotto winners the other night I think...

[Jabawocky]

Gooday Ando,

This is not something for this thread, and will never be easily explained in a post on prune, but happy to talk to you on the phone or at the field one day. Happy to show you real life examples.

Plug fouling in a "conforming engine" and flown with proper engine handling, not the ones taught in flying schools, would not have a fouled plug. That is not to say it can't happen.

Plug maintenance is something even LAME's do not do well in many cases, along with misuse of the red knob...or lack of use. So it is possible. The only fouled plug I have ever experienced is in a C172 with the TCM ice maker engine....and had i known then what I know now the instructor would have copped a large.............education:E

Now that machine made ice better than HP ....after holding at YBCG on a day like recently, we took off, and thought I was about to have my first engine failure at 30 hours TT, carby heat fixed it fortunately.

I reckon you are the new planky :E

[Ando1Bar]

Come on - that is pretty insulting...:=

[Avgas172]

My trusty little C172H has been flying for 45+ years now with me flogging it for the last 10 or so, and I must report it is a right bitch with carby ice, to the extent that I personally instruct anyone that fly's it on the NEED for carby heat in any situation that the engine is under 1500 rpm, having done this for the last 45 years she manages to stay airbourne with her lumpy TCM six cylinder donk rattling away. Well done to the pilot for managing to survive this accident and may you continue to persue your dream. :ok:
cheers
A172

[Jabawocky]

Come on - that is pretty insulting...

hahahha, well yeah I suppose it depends which way you look at it. Previously I did say you had a far better chance of being correct :ok:

Sorry if that hurt your "feeling" :}



Hey AVGAS, so you have the TCM Ice Machine too do ya! :eek:

[itsbrokenagain]

I used to own that plane back in the 1990's... she was a nice old girl, sad to see.

[Volumex]

The final ATSB report is out.
Investigation: AO-2012-148 - Collision with terrain involving Cessna 172N, VH-JGR, near Kagaru, Queensland, 7 November 2012 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2012/aair/ao-2012-148.aspx)

Looks like insurers are now the contracted provider of ATSB investigative functions.

Insurance report
A representative of the insurer attended the accident site and examined the wreckage. The insurer concluded that JGR collided with the ground at about 50-60 knots at about 60°left wing down and about 20°nose down, at a high rate of vertical descent with the engine at idle power.

[spinex]

Hardly seems worth the effort, does it?:rolleyes: I may just save that report and put it up next time someone bemoans the fact that the ATSB doesn't generally investigate RA accidents - I reckon there is more worthwhile content in this thread in relation to possible causes.

[MCKES]

Ummmm so yeh like atsb wtf happened????

[VH-FTS]

Is it true the CFI of RQAC (at the time at the time of the accident) no longer works there after CASA investigated the place following the crash?

The report was rubbish. The info about the ATSB on the last page contains more information than the actual report.

[Localjuice]

He gone as a result of investigation. Prob an awesome pilot himself. I think CASA didn't like the fact that it was easy for students to get there hands on plane keys. No strict sign out rules - accident waiting to happen?. And AOC cancelled or suspended. RQAC students and instructors operate under Airline academy of Australia AOC. Ironically AAA had the same practice and their AOC was not cancelled.

[wateroff]

Getting hands on keys isn't the issue. Some planes don't need keys. It about an ethos, a way of things, going about your flight in a methodical manner. Planning, both on your students part and monitoring by the instructor. Something which is managed by guidance and leadership, -something the place lost about a decade ago - when CASA decided to put the place in the hands of a 'mate'...... Insider trading in any other business. The place had not seen an inch of common sense or leadership or competence since. Sad really, seeing as how the real 'boss' is still there.

[ButFli]

Anyone know if old-mate ever got his PPL?

[Airshowtragic]

I was around rq at the time and for sometime after this accident and as far as I'm aware old mate hasn't been back. Shame, I'm sure he would have been welcomed with open arms..cough

So either he's given up or he's now some other insurance companies problem