View Full Version : Another stupid government decision imminent

4th Nov 2012, 00:04
O'Farrell wants Canberra to be the 2nd airport but then also wants to build a huge estate at the end of the runway.

Is he deliberately trying to destroy Australian Aviation all together? No other country in the world is this dumb, which makes me question who these guys are really working for.

Former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer has weighed into the Canberra Airport flight-path debate, saying approval of the Tralee development would hit the ACT economy and scuttle any chance of high-speed rail for the capital.

The NSW state government is likely to give approval for the $400 million housing project south of Queanbeyan within weeks.
Village Building Company, which proposes to build 1000 homes, says its plans comply with existing rules around non-curfew airports, but a spokesman said Village would not comment again until the NSW government announced a decision.

Mr Fischer said ''McMansion'' builders would pour into the new development and lobby for a curfew which would restrict the airport's growth and kill plans for a high-speed rail link to Sydney. ''It's a classical case of pitiful short-term gain for massive long-term economic pain,'' he said.
Mr Fischer said Premier Barry O'Farrell must wait until consultancy AECOM Australia's findings are released at the end of this year on the high-speed rail proposal.

Meanwhile, Canberra Airport managing director Stephen Byron wants Mr O'Farrell to intervene in any planning approval.
Mr Byron said the airport had asked for but not received any indication on Tralee from Planning Minister Brad Hazzard before committing to the $42 million international component of its new airport terminal.
Mr Byron said it was galling the government chose to ignore its own Planning Assessment Commission's recommendation, because the commission's role was to improve transparency and independence.

Mr Byron said Canberra and Queanbeyan residents would face noise sharing.
''Today you don't get aircraft over you during the day or during the night. One day you will, when these [Tralee] residents complain.
''Secondly, you will get a curfew at Canberra Airport within a decade of the houses being built and that will curtail the ability of the airport to service the community and people who want to travel.''
Mr Byron said no agreement had been reached with the ACT government on roads, including that the Monaro Highway would not handle traffic from Tralee. Nor had the Commonwealth agreed on environmental protection approvals. ''There is a very long way to go on this,'' he said. ''This is a very poor decision if it comes through, but there is a very long way to go.''
Mr Byron said the decision would compromise Canberra as an overflow airport. ''The most important component is [Canberra's] curfew-free role, to accept aircraft 24 hours a day when Sydney cannot.''
He said Mr O'Farrell's view was aircraft noise should not be imposed on western Sydney residents, and so there should be no second airport within the Sydney basin.
Consequently, Mr O'Farrell's solution was a high speed train to Canberra airport. ''Not only do we lose, the Premier loses his entire policy on the second airport.''

Read more: Fischer says Tralee may doom hope for rail link (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/fischer-says-tralee-may-doom-hope-for-rail-link-20121101-28nc5.html#ixzz2BCuVsc60)

4th Nov 2012, 01:23
What is it with these politicians?!:*
They are both retarded and corrupt!:mad:
The greedy pr!ck who dreamed this developement in the first place, should be hung, drawn and quartered!

4th Nov 2012, 01:57
O'Farrell is under pressure from lobbyists against using Badgery's Creek as the 2nd airport.

This man is weak or very clever.

I'd say the latter. He's putting up the proposal and it will obviously be rejected, thereby putting pressure back on the Badgery's Creek proposal as the only viable alternative.
He'll take some ridicule but his objective will be gained.

Politics 101.

4th Nov 2012, 01:23
He's putting up the proposal and it will obviously be rejected

No the concern is that the proposal will get pushed through, and resulting in the new residents pressuring politicians to then impose curfew at YSCB and thereby killing off YSCB.

4th Nov 2012, 02:45

Why is it everyone seems to wat to build next to an airport ?

Canberra / Qu isn't exactly short of farmland so why the need
to build at the end of the runway ?

Thank god someone in Melbourne had the foresight to stick the airport
that far out and put restrictions on what was allowed around it.
A few times people have been told to go jump, the airport was there first.


4th Nov 2012, 10:26
The problem with Tralee is, the developers already own the site. Money talks and so do corrupt politicians.
It's time for governments to stop bowing to pressure from greedy developers and put conditions on new developments.
As for Tralee specifically, it's a good site geographically to develop, fairly flat and close to several decent access roads to Canberra or Centrelink town. There isn't exactly a lot of developable flat land around Queanbeyan anymore that isn't zoned industrial, flood plain or small rural holdings.

4th Nov 2012, 12:18
Well all i can say is that people writing here can also influence decisions by going to there local MP's, twittering them in mass and other peaceful complaint mechanisms (online, in person or otherwise).

If you just write on a forum, your blowing off steam in the wrong area unless you contact the parties responsible for this and those above them and simply make them aware of the fopah and the consequence of following it through.

All crappy things happen if good people do nothing..... :ok:
Power and awareness to the people!!

6th Nov 2012, 07:07
Second airport plan dashed (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/second-airport-plan-dashed-20121105-28ucu.html)

Can't help themselves... :yuk:


6th Nov 2012, 12:12


We have so many means of getting a msg across in modern society lets use it!!!!

Power to the people i say great its brought up here lets go next step and share it to the people that have some how been give the decision making powers....

Goes with any topic not just this... If it doesn't work you can rest assure you tried and they can rest assure they just pissed off another handful of the community which will impact there next polls

6th Nov 2012, 14:33

This second airport debacle has been going for as long as I can remember.. these guys and girls who end up in government,.... couldn't run a bath....:ugh:

6th Nov 2012, 21:45
Just to add some perspective to the argument, the planned northern (i.e. closest) end of the Tralee estate is roughly 7.5km due south of YSCB's RWY35 threshold...about the same as the southern shore of Drummoyne (on Iron Cove) is from YSSY's RWY16R threshold.

The planned southern end of the Tralee estate is about 12.5km from RWY35, about the same as the southern part of North Ryde (near the Aquatic Centre on Vic Rd) is from YSSY's RWY16R.

6th Nov 2012, 22:03
Just to add some perspective to the argument, the planned northern (i.e. closest) end of the Tralee estate is roughly 7.5km due south of YSCB's RWY35 threshold...about the same as the southern shore of Drummoyne (on Iron Cove) is from YSSY's RWY16R threshold.

The planned southern end of the Tralee estate is about 12.5km from RWY35, about the same as the southern part of North Ryde (near the Aquatic Centre on Vic Rd) is from YSSY's RWY16R.

And a little bit more: Canberra suffers from an acute shortage of residential housing, making it the most expensive real estate market for free-standing homes in the country (and by extrapolation, the world). This is because of ridiculous Federation-era restrictions on land ownership in the Territory itself (if you don't want to lease the land your house is built on, chances are you'll end up in Queanbeyan), coupled with geography and topology in the area that doesn't easily lend itself to subdivision and construction. Canberra's public transport is woeful, with no rail network, and the eco-commies who run the Assembly make it expensive and unpleasant to park anything except a bicycle within the city, so you want to live as close as you can.

If you're one of the several hundred thousand families who live in the ACT you AREN'T head of some APS department and earning big bucks - maybe you're in the ADF, a copper, a bog-standard APS grunt, or you're planning to work at the new airport, then you're probably desperately keen for developments like this one to succeed. More so than you are for Sydney jet traffic to maybe, one day, have an overflow option.

7th Nov 2012, 07:57
Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen used to call this ‘feeding the chooks’.

Announcements about the second Sydney airport have fed many chooks over many decades. The ‘very fast train’ has become another abundant source of chook feed.

Don’t peck at it, folks. In only encourages them.

It’s just the latest crop of dumb/dumber politicians using ‘hot button’ issues as leverage to goad each other. The beauty of these issues for the politicians is that the electorate is generally equally divided, so it generally makes no difference to the political fortunes of the major political groupings.

(One long-suffering Canberra commuter recently issued a plea, not for a very fast train, but just for something slightly faster than the train that currently moves at a snail’s pace due to the neglected and dilapidated track. )

Relax: nothing’s likely to happen.

Nothing is likely to happen unless there’s a disruption to the smooth transition of politicians from chauffer driven limousine to private airport lounge to row 1, and the reverse, or the amount of aircraft noise near their own homes becomes irritating or affects values.

The lessors of Canberra aerodrome and the developers of Tralee have lots of money. I doubt whether their protracted and sometimes-bitter public dispute will end with the decision of a mere politician, the duration of whose incumbency will equate, in the timescales of airport development and urban planning, to the blowing of a snotty nose.

7th Nov 2012, 18:59
I keep hearing people bleat on about Canberra's supposed expensive housing, but I don't see it.
Name another capital city in Australia (except the south island) where $400k buys you a 3 bedroom free standing house on a decent block, 20 mins drive from the CBD.
Housing shortage? Only if you want a McMansion and are too snobby to buy a "used" house...

7th Nov 2012, 20:33
Fully agree with Creampuff. Talk of a second Sydney airport will go on for a while and like every other discussion in previous years, eventually just fade away. Sydney might like to call itself the gateway to Australia, but that title will soon be taken away by Melbourne and then Brisbane. Sydney will be a convenient domestic airport with a few international ops until someone works out that they can shift Customs to Melb and Brissy and save a buck.

10th Nov 2012, 07:10
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/11/10/3784626/port-lenore-420x0.jpg Illustration: michaelmucci.com

Next time you hear a politician banging on about productivity consider this. And scoff.
The federal and NSW governments have been told, by their own top advisers, that without a second Sydney airport the economy of the state and the nation will be stunted.
They have been told - in a report delivered earlier this year - that increased traffic will mean Sydney's noise-sharing agreement won't work any more and aircraft noise will rise to the levels considered unbearable in the 1990s.
And they have been told that roads around the airport will be gridlocked and that there will be increasing flight delays, throughout the Australian aviation system.
That's an economic and productivity disaster, right there.
All those hours sitting in a stationary plane on the tarmac, sitting in stationary Sydney traffic, sitting in other airports around the nation suffering knock-on delays are non-productive hours. All those international flights landing in Melbourne or Brisbane because their airports are open for business and expanding and are full of travellers who won't base their holidays out of Sydney.
If we keep on like this by 2060 we'll have lost $60 billion in spending and 78,000 jobs, the report said, and the biggest losses will be in Sydney and NSW.
The federal Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, read the report and immediately started work on a scoping study at Wilton, south-west of Campbelltown, one of two possible sites identified by the report.
He couldn't start work on the best and most logical option - Badgery's Creek, where the land for an airport still sits, unused, having been bought by the Hawke government in 1985, because he is still bound by Labor's silly, short-sighted 2003 decision to rule out Badgery's Creek. But at least he started work on something.
Barry O'Farrell didn't just refuse to start any work - his government set about undermining the viable options, and even the unviable one that they claimed they supported.
According to the NSW Premier there was only one option for a second airport, Canberra - 300 kilometres away. (The report categorically ruled Canberra out, on the grounds that it's, you know, not near Sydney).
But despite Canberra being the Premier's preference, the NSW government has also approved a rezoning to allow 2000 houses at South Tralee, under Canberra Airport's curfew-free flight path.
Since no one except for O'Farrell really thought that Canberra would ever become Sydney's second airport, this is more a political embarrassment for the NSW government than an actual policy failure, although it does raise serious questions about Canberra Airport's plans to use its curfew-free status to become a big freight hub.
But the NSW government is also actively encouraging plans for 12,000 houses to be built by four developers at Wilton.
Two weeks ago Wollondilly Council - in response to a call for new housing developments by the NSW government - gave the green light to a formal public consultation on plans for a new ''city'' at Wilton.
It will be jointly constructed by four big developers, and include schools, childcare centres, shops and community centres to service the new housing. The council is also strongly backing the already active ''No Airport for Wilton'' campaign.
Local communities have every right to lobby for what they see to be their local interests, but state and federal governments are supposed to take sometimes difficult decisions in the state and national interest. And it is clearly in the state and national interest for a second airport to be built - somewhere.
But for 27 years they've been squibbing it. Privately both sides of Federal Parliament understand they can't squib it for much longer.
The Wilton scoping study should be finished by early next year and it is then that the government will have to say which of the two viable options it is supporting.
Not unreasonably, Tony Abbott has been reluctant to take a lead on the problem from opposition. But importantly, despite O'Farrell's ridiculous position, the Coalition leader hasn't ruled out support for a second airport. He says he is waiting for the specific proposal from Labor.
Many federal Coalition MPs are all too aware that they will inherit the problem if they win government - and that by then the noise and congestion problems in Sydney are likely to be becoming acute. They are also frustrated with O'Farrell's head-in-the-sand stance.
The shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey, who has previously described the NSW government's position as ''absurd'' said this week that it ''does seem odd the state government would approve additional residential housing around Canberra Airport, when it says that should be the second airport for Sydney''.
''The Premier is entitled to his views but we should really be honest and deal with this issue in the Sydney Basin,'' Hockey said.
Many of his colleagues agree, but aren't brave enough to say so on the record.
But the Qantas chief, Alan Joyce, is. He said last month of O'Farrell's position: ''He is wrong on this and we all know he is wrong on this.''
And the Premier's infrastructure adviser, former premier Nick Greiner, is. He said a second airport was necessary, Badgery's Creek was the logical site and there were plenty of reasons why residents might welcome the development.
''Politicians on both sides are running way behind the community,'' he said.
The real question now is how much pain from not building an airport - how much noise, congestion and delays - politicians can endure before it outweighs the political pain of deciding on a site and starting to build the thing.
So far the answer seems to be, a lot. When we finally reach the political pain threshold, the question will be whether politicians can find a way to backtrack from nearly three decades of stupid promises and build it at the most obvious site - Badgery's Creek - or whether they will choose Wilton because it's politically less difficult.
So far we have been waiting more than 27 years. And for all that time politicians have been telling us productivity and economic growth are their abiding concerns. my bold

Read more: Airport debacle stuck in eternal holding pattern (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/airport-debacle-stuck-in-eternal-holding-pattern-20121109-2933w.html#ixzz2BnyuKElV)

How true....

Frank Arouet
10th Nov 2012, 09:10
I crashed a Triumph Trophy in Galston Gorge years ago. Couldn't walk properly for weeks because of water running off a waterfall that crossed the road. I've scratched the grass and pissed on poles here, and it's unbelievable that anybody would consider the place for an airport.

10th Nov 2012, 12:16
- if a second international airport for Sydney can’t be sited at Richmond – for whatever reason – there is no chance of any second international airport being built anywhere in the Sydney basin.

Holsworthy would be the perfect 2nd airport. Close to the M5 carpark, in the middle of a densely populated residential area, close to the shops and it even comes with a prepared runway. POSITION! POSITION! POSITION!

11th Nov 2012, 02:34
Minister Albanese presented an independent report Meeting the Future Aviation Needs of Sydney, initiated by the federal and New South Wales Governments, into the future aviation needs of Sydney. Referring to its findings, he said: ‘Firstly, the curfew and the cap at Sydney Airport will be maintained. The report speaks about an increase of the cap could go up to 85 per hour from the existing 80. The only reason why there can only be a minimal increase is because of the site constraints at the airport ... Secondly, we don't support Bankstown Airport being Sydney's second airport. Bankstown Airport has an important role to play in general aviation, but we don't support it being—through a process of stealth, becoming Sydney's second airport. We also maintain our position of opposition to an airport at Badgerys Creek. That was a commitment that we gave at the last two elections and we believe that's appropriate even though the report indicates that Badgerys Creek is its preferred site. The second preferred site of this study is Wilton; and the Government intends to examine the Wilton site. There would need to be a scoping study of that as the first step and I had discussions with the joint chairs of the report this morning on that ... For example, it explicitly rejects Canberra Airport, or any other airport such a distance from Sydney becoming the second airport, and effectively outlines why all international experience shows that that will not work. It also speaks about the increased needs for aviation capacity in other parts of the Greater Sydney region. In particular, the growth that's required in Newcastle and the Central Coast will require additional aviation capacity there. It also opens up the discussion about—in the short term there being some regular passenger transport services operating from the Richmond air base. But it outlines that Richmond can't be, due to capacity constraints and size restraints of the site, can't become Sydney's second airport because it could only take a very limited number of flights.’

Even Joe Hockey said that Canberra as a second airport for Sydney is absurd, pointing out that international visitors buying a ticket for Sydney might find themselves at Canberra instead.

I still maintain that this is a political furfy run by O'Farrell in an attempt to ensure Canberra is written out as an alternative and that Badgery's Creek is finally given the green light.
No matter what the politicians say, the report favours Badgery's Creek.which was bought by and is still owned by the Federal Government in 1985 for that purpose.
The report goes on to say that "Wilton is worthy of further consideration...." but if the land at Badgery's Creek is already owned by the Fed government, why would you build anywhere else?
I maintain that Canberra is a well orchestrated smoke screen by O'Farrell

11th Nov 2012, 03:06
Keeping the 'issue' of a second Syd airport open for discussion for the past 30 years is no mere coincidence. Apart from the 'issue' being brought up every time an inept government needs a smoke screen and a convenient little herring when said inept government is under the spotlight, consider the other benefit of having this 'issue' remain on the books - This has provided successive governments and it's Ministers with opportunities to regularly meet, converse, discuss, review, postulate and ponder, all over fine wines, canopes and lobster at many exclusive restaurants, for decades, and all at the expense of the Aussie taxpayer. It is 'the rort that keeps on giving', OINK OINK.

16th Nov 2012, 16:42
How to land the jumbo benefits of the Asian century (http://www.smh.com.au/business/how-to-land-the-jumbo-benefits-of-the-asian-century-20121116-29hvb.html)

The little game is on again...