Scottish Distress & Diversion Cell to Close

[telstarr]

Does anyone know why Scottish D&D is to close with all services being transferred to London/Swanwick D&D With the call sign "London Centre" at 0900 UTC on 12 December 2012.

Over the years a great many pilots have benefited from their professional service and expertise within the Scottish FIR. This could make practice pans and training fixes interesting not to mention anyone unfortunate enough to have a real emergency.

IN-2012/178: Single UK Distress and Diversion Cell | Publications | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/IN2012178)

[Bigears]

Spondoolies- not enough of them, I believe

[xrayalpha]

Can't do a training fix in Scotland anyway!

[dont overfil]

Why not? I seem to get requests for training frequently.

D.O.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

What difference will it make where the D&D folk are located? Sounds like a sensible cost saving to me.

We used to have an ATC Sub Centre at Manchester. I could never understand why NATS did that with all the extra costs, instead of giving control of that airspace to London or Prestwick. It's now done from Prestwick (I guess the reason they don't combine Swanwick and Prestwick is for safety; two centres in case one ceases to be available).

[ShyTorque]

We really are at the end of an Empire.

I can imagine it now:

"MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY!!"

"Standby, and I'll call you back; you're number four in the queue".

[Crash one]

Can't do a training fix in Scotland anyway!


Yes you can. I did one a few weeks ago, Training fix & vectors to home. No probs.

[10W]

Does anyone know why Scottish D&D is to close with all services being transferred to London/Swanwick D&D With the call sign "London Centre" at 0900 UTC on 12 December 2012.

It's because, like everyone else, the UK Military are shrinking their resources to a reduced number of facilities. In the same way that Manchester Sub Centre has been absorbed, then so too are all the Military Area Control services heading for Swanwick.

Effect on the 'customers' is zero for the D&D move. Same kit, same staff, same professionalism, same frequency. Just a different telephone key for those of us who use them most days.

[fisbangwollop]

Prestwick centres visit ATC day on 24th November will be your last chance to visit the D&D facility before the move south.......for those of you that have booked for the event will see you all then :cool:
Visit ATC day is back - Airspace & Safety Initiative (http://airspacesafety.com/news/visit-atc-day-is-back)

[soaringhigh650]

Does anyone know why Scottish D&D is to close with all services being transferred to London/Swanwick D&D With the call sign "London Centre" at 0900 UTC on 12 December 2012.

It has become frankly a waste of money keeping it going.

I think D&D was set up in the days where nobody wanted to talk to you unless you had filed and flew IFR.

Nowadays LARS has improved as well as more airports being equipped with radar etc.

Most people can now speak to the nearest ATC or FIS unit as well.

With improved aircraft reliability and pilot safety material, Maydays and PanPans have become very rare. So rare that the D&D people encourage pilots to call them and do Practice Pans. To me that's like dialing 911 and having a fun test.

The D&D function has become increasingly redundant. I don't know any other country who spends such an amount of money on running something similar. I wouldn't be surprised if the cell completely disappeared one day, with the same. professional service merged into the en-route units.

[ShyTorque]

Nowadays LARS has improved as well as more airports being equipped with radar etc.

Unfortunately the number of UK LARS units is getting smaller and the ones that remain are often part time. There are some gaps that weren't there a few years ago.

[dont overfil]

I think D&D was set up in the days where nobody wanted to talk to you unless you had filed and flew IFR.

The D&D cell was set up by the military for the military. They naturally will help a civillian in distress.

The D&D cell frequently use civilian pilots for crew training much to the annoyance of transatlantic traffic who can occasionally can be heard shouting "you're on guard." They like the frequency to be kept clear for the footy results!

D.O.:E

[spekesoftly]

The D&D cell was set up by the military for the military......Originally set up in the days when military aircraft, especially single jets, had short range and only very basic radio and navigation kit.

Previous locations for D&D cells were Uxbridge, Preston, West Drayton and Nicosia (Cyprus FIR).

Any others?

[10W]

With improved aircraft reliability and pilot safety material, Maydays and PanPans have become very rare. So rare that the D&D people encourage pilots to call them and do Practice Pans. To me that's like dialing 911 and having a fun test.

We probably get around a dozen PAN calls or emergencies in an average month. Hardly very rare, unless you are measuring it against the total number of aircraft handled.

If the D&D service does go, do you think a busy controller is going to have time to give the aircraft in distress all the help he needs ? And who will become responsible for 121.5 ? I'd be interested to hear how it works in other places and whether pilots get the service they deserve when things turn to rat ****.

[dont overfil]

My only reservation about the Prestwick based D&D closing down is the easy access they have to the superb local knowledge of the Scottish Info folks a few paces away.

D.O.

[mad_jock]

10w from my experence in the US all US towers/area have 121.5 monitoring and if someone calls on it its a free for all, until one unit "takes it" then the other services shut up and they either get transfered across to the unit that has taken it or its dealt with on that freq. The controller seems to be a bog standard ATCO who then takes the load in addition to thier current work.

Outside europe further east and south, its a right hodge podge, used by aircraft for finding out what frequency they should be on, sometimes its the only one they can talk to a controller on VHF. And the usually chit chat rubbish. And any maydays are dealt with in not nearly as cooly and calmly as what happens in the UK.

UK service is bloody good, the ability to practise with the service is again annoying for some but life saving for others and brillant training for both pilot and controller.

Move to a single unit I can understand, two sections to admin two sets of training depts double cover required etc etc.

Now the reason to move it south instead of North is well worth discussion. But ultmately doomed to failure because the Mil want things close to London and near the other mil units.

I don't know how many times they are working both at the same time so they may have an occassional overload but I am sure they will have more than one station and during the day will have cover to open up and section the country to another station.

In the grand scheme of things its not the best but certainly not the worst. Scotty info is at the other end of the phone just as they were before

We still get someone who's primary job is to train and deal with emergencys and thats quite an investment in resources. And certainly alot better than most countries.