Pilot discomfort

[PiperDriver86]

So here's one for you...

Recently spoken to a few fellow aviators (all new or new-ish PPLs) about something I wouldn't normally be confortable saying out loud, but found out it might be more widespread than I though...

Has anyone ever felt unconfortable flying (either as a pilot or passenger)?

I have been in aviation for some years now and I have never felt completly at ease with the fact I have to put my life in someone else's hands, but it had gotten worse over the years. I'm at the point now where I learned to fly, I know I can not only manouver the aircraft safely and (hoping) efficiently in the sky, but also make decisions on ground/in air.
I don't doubt my flying "skills", but the fun part, the "I-love-doing-this" part is gone.
I can do it, but don't feel like doing it anymore. I have also had a few hairy situations (like some of the other guys I've been talking to), so that might be a part of it. The other part might be the fact how many things CAN GO and GO WRONG...

So, I guess that might be a food for thought for all wannabies who throw their parent's hard-earned life savings to go from zero to hero, only to discover halway into their training that aviation is not really what they hoped/thought/seen in movies...

And just a little "disclaimer". This IS A GENIUNE TOPIC, and by any means NOT A MAGNET for trolls, imbecils and wannabies with no life and more MS Flight Sim X time than in a real aircraft.

Thanks

[B2N2]

In your profile it states occupation: aviation but what is it you do?
You failed to mention how many hours you have or how much you fly.
I started with glider flying prior to powered flight. I was always anxious before the flight, sometimes even scared.
Powered flight wasn't much better, almost tired from anticipation prior to the flight. After I got my PPL and flew the 30hrs/year like everybody else I usually couldnt sleep the day before a planned flight.
Get to the airport and make stupid mistakes out of nervousness.
Like strapping in while leaving the key inside, forgetting shocks, flooding engines and burning up starters.
Now?
10,000 hrs and 20 years later I look back on it and consider it "normal" for an inexperienced pilot. Well maybe not even a pilot yet. Just somebody with a flying license.
It's like taking a boat out on your own or going diving on your own.
It takes time before you realize that you can accept and control risk to an acceptable standard.
You have to see it this way; if you drive trucks for a living you'll be seeing a lot more accidents and stupidity that if you only drive a car for recreation once every three weeks.You'll have a lot more going wrong too.

their parent's hard-earned life savings to go from zero to hero, only to discover halway into their training that aviation is not really what they hoped/thought/seen in movies...

There is another reason for not paying large amounts upfront.

[laz219]

I'm a fairly new student (only about 7 hours flying time so far) and I can definitely say I get some nerves before a lesson. Although I'm not sure how much of that is worrying whether I actually remember everything I'm supposed to about the lesson.

I think when I do my first solos, I will be really nervous with a million "what if I" questions in my head. Just not wanting to forget something trivial.

[PiperDriver86]

In the past few months I've done more flying than in the last 7 years put together (I started 7 years ago). I've finally put some money together and got some time to do it "full time".
I do, however, like the way you stated "it's not really being a pilot, just somebody with the flying license"... As I'm only in lower three digit hours, I do feel competent to perform a safe flight, but it's far from being experienced. Also, I do pick my flights not to be extremely demanding, as I don't want to push too far too soon.

So I guess not the only one?

I didn't feel my occupation was relevant for anything around here, so I didn't put it...

[RTN11]

I remember when I had first qualified I used to be terrified going off on my own. It was much more scary without an instructor looking over your shoulder to make sure your planning was correct, or that there wasn't some storm on the TAF that I didn't pick up.

It took until at least 100 hours TT until this went away, and by 130-150 hours I was much happier. Post CPL I then had the confidence to do everything.

To be a bit nervous is perfectly normal, especially if you're not flying regularly. The more often you can fly the better.

[Piltdown Man]

Somewhere along the line you have to trust both people and the physical world around you. As for myself, I know air is pretty thick and that a wing will produce lift. I trust work of the designer and the manufacturer and accept that they have done their jobs properly. I also accept that the certification system will not pass any contraption that is capable of being flown and operated by someone verging on to be a complete idiot. I also accept that there is the possibility of something going wrong in any one of the previous items. When I'm learning I also try my very best to understand what I'm being taught and why. As a direct consequence of all of the previous items I'm a happy bunny when I'm in a plane.

[BravoSierraKilo]

Fright and nerve's are good...keep's you safe!

Ive only 7.2 hours and I feel pretty comfortable but I always get nervous and im sure no matter how many hours you have there is always that 'what 'if.

Well that 'what if' is what makes a good aviator :ok: the what if keeps you on your toes and when you know your in complete control you can relax.

Maybe you need to fly on your own for a bit..somewhere new and quiet.....just to relax yourself :cool:

Im an avid biker and I most definitely get more nervous on the bike..why? Well because there is a higher risks of a problem on a bike than in a plane!

But just like flying ill never give up my bike because no matter what you do or drive / fly there's always going to be the what if.

As my old instructor (ex AirForce) said......'you are now apart of the few elite who have defied gravity and flew' :ok:

[sevenstrokeroll]

are you comfortable sitting at home watching TV?

if yes

well...flying is not man's element...you are a stranger in the sky...so use this survival instinct to keep you and your passengers and those innocent folk on the ground alive and well.

I've flown since 1975...and I'm afraid of heights!

use it...

[Pontius]

Flyingpicket,

Perhaps you failed to read the caveat:

This IS A GENIUNE TOPIC, and by any means NOT A MAGNET for trolls, imbecils and wannabies with no life and more MS Flight Sim X time than in a real aircraft.

...my instructor who was the squadron leader and base commander

No, he wasn't.

I noticed through the intercom that his breathing had started to get very heavy and more laboured.

No, it didn't.

As for the rest of your posting, it is inaccurate, irrelevant and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Stick to telling your war stories down the pub, rather than cluttering this thread up with complete rubbish.

(Approx 950 hrs flying cadets in the Chipmunk, Bulldog and Tutor)

[darkroomsource]

The love is gone?
Wow, I just can't imagine that.
I've been flying now for 20 years, and every time the wheels leave the ground I get high.... bad pun. I get a thrill every time I take off, and every time I land, I get my jollies from a squeaker, I get happy for the rest of the day when I get out of the plane and realize that I'm one in a billion (if you think of all the people in the history of the world who have ever flown).
I can't imagine not loving it...
so, if you don't love it any more, find something else to do that you do love.

[justanotherflyer]

Nicely put! You're right about feeling the love. Been flying for decades and it's a deep thrill every time. Although the feeling has changed from the early-day 'rush' to a quiet satisfaction at attending to the small details, being ahead of the airplane, being situationally aware, maximising the margins of safety (not that any one flight has ever been 100% perfect in all of those items, but one aspires) and always taking time to admire the beauty of the skies, the earth, and the craft itself.

Small quibble with your math, though... ;)

I get happy for the rest of the day when I get out of the plane and realize that I'm one in a billion

Given that somewhere upwards of 80bn people have walked the planet, and upwards of 20m pilots have been trained, then you're more like one in 4,000! But the poetry of your sentiments more than makes up for the statistical overestimation.

:)

[clunk1001]

I think I know how you feel.

When I fly a small single I still expect the engine to quit. After 20 years of flying it hasnt happened....yet....I still expect it to, on pretty much every flight. And I find anticipating things going wrong always provides a little tension.

Flying a twin, I still expect an engine to quit, but I'm now a little more content with my options if one does.

For me, all the commercial training didnt shift that underlying anticipation of something going wrong. Its still there, it makes me very thorough in my checks and preparation.

I've had the 'I dont enjoy this anymore' feeling a few times in the past, as a PPL sometimes it lasted years, during which time I didnt fly at all. But the bug always came back.

I find that the 'love' can go out of flying after a crisis of confidence. Possibly from the hairy situations you mention (not been in any myself), or from some hairy arsed instructor/examiner in the plane or the Sim who deliberately knocks that confidence out of you (of which I've had a few).

So perhaps these hairy situations are a root cause. And in a similar fashion to this thread you'll probably find many people have been in similar situations.

[PiperDriver86]

Some very good and valid thoughts here... Especially clunk1001. I kinda feel the same. I always anticipate and expect something to go tits up. I might even overthink which really kicks the "fun part" out of the whole experience. But now after getting my license and flying for a bit, I come to think I never really "loved it" like "darkroomsource" and "justanotherflyer". I don't feel romantic about it, I just like it. Especially certain parts of it. Like practicing all sorts of touch&go's and trying to do better one after the other. Or doing certain procedures...

But just like clunk1001, even when I don't feel like doing it anymore and when I lose the desire or even if something had happened (twice in the past 7 years, nothing too bad) for some crazy reason I keep coming back for more...

[B2N2]

Well we still don not know how many hours you have and how much you fly.
In the past few months I've done more flying than in the last 7 years put together (I started 7 years ago).
Comfort is a matter of how much you have done it and how much you are doing it. As stated it took me a couple of years to get comfortable.
Liking it and loving it are in the little things, not the 7 hour flight but the last two minutes. Or the couple of minutes you climbed through cloud into the sunshine, or the the time you managed to correctly anticicpate 5 ATC calls in a row. Don't expect flying to be all bliss from beginning to end.
Some peopel are never satisfied because their self imposed threshold for "happiness" is too high.
FYI I am scared of heights,do not like to clean out the gutter and I am slightly claustrophobic, I like wide open spaces.
Don't tell the AME though.......:=

[stuckgear]

In the past few months I've done more flying than in the last 7 years put together (I started 7 years ago). I've finally put some money together and got some time to do it "full time".
I do, however, like the way you stated "it's not really being a pilot, just somebody with the flying license"... As I'm only in lower three digit hours, I do feel competent to perform a safe flight, but it's far from being experienced. Also, I do pick my flights not to be extremely demanding, as I don't want to push too far too soon.



As a point; its probably a good thing that you have concerns as to safety, it's something I'd rather see than a 'kick the tyres, light the fires' type.

Quite often many of us look back at our earlier lower timed flying and wonder how little we knew and how we didn't have a ding.. its quite common that in the post ppl stage, probably around 100-150 hours, people have enough knowledge to kill themselves and/or scare themselves rigid. Often they do.

Once you get through that stage, you start to realise that, no, flying is not easy and if you are not doing something, there's something you probably should be doing.


Its a sign of maturity that you approach the issue with concern, rather than machismo and bravado, don't put yourself off, but take it in a professional manner, allways leave yourself an way out.

as the adage goes; 'there's old pilots and bold pilots, but very, very few old, bold pilots'.

Don't beat yourself up.

[pudoc]

I always like to be in control. I am inexperienced, my hours are still in the hundreds, but if I don't have control I get a bit anxious. Hopefully this is something I can sort out before I fly an airliner, but unless I have an instructor next to me or a very experienced pilot I get anxious and watch the other pilot like a hawk. A good and a bad thing.

For example, one of the twin aircraft I've flown is a bit of a death trap if you don't know what you're doing and flys like a sack of potatoes, not to mention it's pretty old. It's a GA aircraft so as a passenger I can see whats happening up front and now I refuse to sit in the back unless the person flying is experienced and I trust them.

I've watched students fly (whilst sitting in the back pax seat) and despite the instructor being there I do get anxious when the instructor says "speed" or "don't get too low". I feel useless in the back when the student could potentially kill us. Probably won't happen, but still scares me.

However, I have so much fun flying these death traps if I'm in control, I trust myself and my skills but still have huge respect for the aircraft. Maybe it's just the fact that I fly with quite a lot of low hour pilots that makes me nervous, so maybe my feelings are normal.

I hope that when I end up in an airliner that I won't have these issues as the crew would be trained to a higher standard than that in the leisure world.

Things can and do go wrong very quickly in aviation, but I have accepted that and the amount of fun I have flying outweighs the fact that I may not live to be old.

[B2N2]

Piper, it seems like you are going through a very normal phase of development as a pilot.
You are just one of the very few to step forward into the limelight and admit it.
Most (like me) will just suffer in silence and wait for it to go away (and it did).
I assume you drive a car, or a motor bike or even a bicycle.
Reaslistically, how many times have you had a close call?
Close calls in aviation tend to be somwhat more intense and over dramatized but in the end they are still what they are; a close call and nothing happenend apart from a learning moment.
Barely missed is just as much missed as missed by a mile. Eventually the only difference is in the war stories told at the bar.

You are probably not a military man but the first time you ever get shot at is an eye-opener. But even something this extreme you eventually get used to.
Doesn't make the event any less stressful, dangerous or dramatic you just learn to deal with it better.
It is just an extreme example to show you human adaptation, I am in no way comparing aviation to walking around in a war zone.
Although being tossed around in a dark ominous cloud in a light single not knowing if you will ever see daylight at the end is comparable as far as stress level and emotions are concerned.
And yes I have been in both situations and no, I'm not military.....:E

Don't beat yourself up.
+1 :ok:

[Nirak]

I loved my flying until that arogant, militant and self important ex-airforce check and training captains destroyed my desire to be in a cockpit. Haven't flown for several years ...... most likely never will again. :mad::mad::ugh::ugh:They think the world revolves around their :mad: arses