Moving to the USA

[captain two-holds]

Hi Guys

I'm a JAA/EASA ATP holder, and I live in the UK, problem is I have an American girlfriend who lives in Michigan, and i'm wondering how easy it is to move over to the USA for a flying career?!

I'm not fussy about jobs, whether it's instructor, airline, turbo props, I'll take anything, just want to know my options.
I've heard that a lot of American pilots become an instructor first, as you need 1500-3000hrs for airline work, and also that regional airlines are crappy to work for?

Any advice would be great! Cheers

[galaxy flyer]

I believe, if married, you're in like Flynn. Yes, the US has loads of pilot jobs! Unfortunately, it also has loads of pilots looking for them. Converting the ATP shouldn't be difficult, not sure of the exact process, but reasonably cheap and painless.

Regionals are the way to the mainlines, if the mainlines ever hire again. The regionals are progressively shrinking as 50 seat RJs are retired. It's hard to say when the next hiring boom will begin. Their are many foreign-born US airline pilots.

Michigan isn't the best of places to start looking, however. The economy there has been down so long, it looks like up.

GF

[MarkerInbound]

As the holder of a foreign ATP you'll just have to take the FAA ATP knowledge test (it's multiple choice) and the ATP checkride.

You'll need the right to work which means the girlfriend will have to become the wife.

Yes, even more for AA, Delta, SW and others at that level, yes.

[Tinstaafl]

You'll have to jump through the TSA insecurity carry-on too. No requirement for training or an instructor recommendation for the ATP checkride but I strongly recommend some amount of training if you're not familiar with the US way of doing things. Bear in mind that it's a checkride each for multi land, single land, multi sea and single sea, although you can combine some things eg do the flight test in an amphibian with alightings & landings to get both land & sea (single or multi, as appropriate) from the one flight test.

You'll need to make sure your hours meet each & every minimum for the licence. The requirements are specified in Title 14 CFR, Part 61 (ie FAR 61). Be aware of specifics though - what's counted as cross country time for one licence level isn't necessarily the same for a different licence level.

There are lots of jobs - if you're prepared to move - but often with low pay.

[captain two-holds]

Cheers for the replies guys!

I actually don't mind where in the US I am, infact I hope it isn't michigan haha.
I did most of my hours in Arizona so I'm fine with the US system, but not in an airline obviously.....

I'm not sure marriage is on the cards in the next year, so I may have to look into a Visa of some sort, but I'm guessing that'll be a pain in the ass too!?

It sounds like the possibility is there though, if I'm willing to take the leap......hmmm

[MarkerInbound]

The right to work will be a pain. Given the number of unemployed US pilots it's almost impossible for a US company to justify sponsoring a foreign national. Now if you could find a company that says they need a Welsh speaking pilot and you happen to speak Welsh....

[captain two-holds]

Thanks Marker Inbound

My welsh is only basic unfortunately, I do speak fluent Iranian though haha, but that's another story, and I'm sure keeping that quiet will be in my best interest if I want to emigrate over there haha

I have a feeling this is going to be difficult to say the least, even if I look other places than airlines.......?

[Check Airman]

What does your current logbook look like? Many US pilots I know would be all to eager to go and work in the EU.

If you've got 1000 Turbine PIC, you'll qualify to apply to just about all of the major airlines (Delta etc).

With 3-4000 total time, including 1000-2000 turbine time, you should be able to apply to some of the LCC's (JetBlue etc)

With 1500 total time, including 100-300 multi time, you can get into a regional airline, but you really don't want to be at a regional airline.

[MarkerInbound]

Back in the late 1970s when Iran was melting down and people read newspapers I recall help wanted ads along the lines of "CFI wanted, must speak fluent Farsi, min TT 648 hours, 38 ME w/ 17 in PA-34." You could tell they were building a job around the qualifications of one their instructors and who had to renew a visa.

You could always take up acting, drinking and getting married.

[Rotorhead1026]

My welsh is only basic unfortunately, I do speak fluent Iranian though haha, but that's another story, and I'm sure keeping that quiet will be in my best interest if I want to emigrate over there haha


No, son, it isn't. Uncle Sam is always looking for people who speak <insert generic middle-eastern language here>. You might not be employable as a pilot, but you'd be employable. You'll be working overseas a lot, though (hint, hint).

I don't know if US consulates have someone you could consult on green card issues, but it's worth asking.

[captain two-holds]

Some equally useful and hilarious replies there!

Yeh maybe some kind of James Bond spy/espionage job would allow me to use my fluent Farsi....hmmmm

The embassies should be able to help but the lines are always slammed and cost about $6/min to call!

Check Airman: my logbook is pretty bad im afraid! I have 250 TT, and the only Turbine hours have been in a 737 sim, so they won't even count for most jobs.

Sounds like the best and easiest option would be to land my first jet job in europe and build hours with the aim of moving west after a year or two?

Japandwell: we have a different health insurance policy over here, it's free haha, so we don't need to pay per year, we get charged through the roof for other stuff but i'd have to start from scratch in the US, which would again be a pain and difficult.....

Maybe I should be asking if my girlfriend is worth this hassle? hahaha

Thanks for the constant input and replies, this is really good stuff.....

[edie]

Just get married! Greencard is automatic after that. If you are not a UK citizen (sorry you don't qualify) you have until November 3 to fill out the application. https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/

For DV-2014, natives of the following countries are not eligible to apply because the countries sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the United States in the previous five years:

Bangladesh, Brazil, Canada, China (mainland-born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and Vietnam.

To convert to an FAA ATP this guy has it down to a science!
Prairie Air Service, Inc (http://www.prairieairservice.com/)

List of US Airlines
Airline Pilot Central (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines.html)

Jobs

Pilot Jobs, Aviation Jobs, Aviation Employment, Job Fairs, Career Fairs (http://www.climbto350.com/) (costs money)

AvCrew.com, Inc. (http://www.avcrew.com/jobs/main.php)

Find Jobs. Build a Better Career. Find Your Calling. | Monster.com (http://www.monster.com/)

[edie]

GoJet Airlines - Flight Crew (http://www.airlineapps.com/Intro/GoJet/)

https://re2o.ultipro.com/rep1003/JobBoard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*33E178A3824B0B01

MAC Careers (http://airt-mac.submit4jobs.com/)

Pilot Careers | Flight Express, Inc. (http://www.flightexpress.com/employment/employment_flightcrew.html)

[A Pandy]

First off as somebody who has made the transition from Wales to the USA let me assure you of one thing. Getting married to a USA citizen does not assure you of a green card or residency. People who tell you this are mistaken. After marrying my American wife it took over 3 years to finally get the green card. There is a lot of paperwork, documentation, background checking, immigration medical and interview to go through first.
Secondly if you are granted a temporary work permit, good for 1 year, after your initial application then you have the wonderful experience of entering the pilot pool and looking for a job. The pilot job market here is awash with pilots that have thousands of hours of jet time so beware of what you are getting into.
Thirdly living in the USA may or may not suit you. It is very different both in good and some not so good ways. Remember this is a land without pubs and fish and chip shops:(
Cymru am byth.

[captain two-holds]

A Pandy:
Cymru am byth indeed! Reading that was a bitter pill to swallow....did you move there then have to wait for a green card? If so what did you do for work?
What would you do first if you were me? Living in the US wouldn't be a problem, I've spent months there in the past.....

Edie: thanks for the websites etc too

Cheers all

[darkroomsource]

Marriage does not equal green card.
My son-in-law from Panama waited 2 years before permission to enter the US.
Then he waited 2 more years for permission to work.
Then he waited 2 more years for an actual green card.
There were numerous incidents during that time, like not being allowed to return to the US because his 2 year visa only had 3 months left, and he didn't have a return ticket, etc.
Point is, it is extremely difficult to migrate legally to the US.

[zondaracer]

I don't know what happened to you guys, but my wife is European and we got married in the US, sent off the papers and had an interview three months later. Walked out of the interview with a stamp on my lady's passport and she got the green card in the mail two weeks later. The stamp was good enough to serve as the green card until the actual one came in the mail.

[edie]

I don't know what happened to you guys, but my wife is European and we got married in the US

Bingo! And don't leave the country until you have your green card!

[darkroomsource]

Interestingly, when your European (now) wife entered the US, were you planning on marrying at the time? And if so, did she indicate on her visa application that she was planning on getting married? there is a question on the visitors visa form to which you must answer 'No' regarding plans of marriage, or you won't get a visitors visa. However if you enter a country with the intent of marrying, but answer 'no' to said question, you can be accused (and have to prove otherwise) of violating immigration policy by not telling the truth on the visitor visa. And if you have lied on a visa application, you can be banned for 10 years.

[Check Airman]

Sounds like the best and easiest option would be to land my first jet job in europe and build hours with the aim of moving west after a year or two?

I'd say stay in the EU until you have 1000 Turbine PIC. If you come here with 5000hrs on a 777, but no PIC time, you'll likely be looking at a regional carrier, flying a CRJ or an ERJ. You do not, I repeat do NOT, want to be at a regional carrier in the US unless you are at the very top of the payscale and seniority list. That's the only time it's worth it.

[captain two-holds]

Wow guys this is all extremely off-putting haha!

Check Airman: I believe our F/O hours are logged under PICUS (which if you guys don't use there is Pilot in command under supervision) so not sure if they'll be useful of if I need the full PIC hours...??

It's not looking good either way is it. On the off chance I'm even allowed to move there I probably won't get a job!

Dark-room-source: not sure if me being british will make things easier or more difficult than someone from Panama? But that doesn't sounds like a quick route haha, 6 years, wow!

Cheers again for all the info peeps!
Ben

[edie]

With 12 million illegal Mexicans in the US what do you have to lose? Head to the US, get married and don't leave the country until you get your green card. If you are flexible and willing to work you will get a job. This thread might be an indication that supply is starting to catch up with demand. $5000 sign on bonus at Eagle - Airline Pilot Central Forums (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/70827-5000-sign-bonus-eagle.html)

[zondaracer]

Interestingly, when your European (now) wife entered the US, were you planning on marrying at the time? And if so, did she indicate on her visa application that she was planning on getting married? there is a question on the visitors visa form to which you must answer 'No' regarding plans of marriage, or you won't get a visitors visa. However if you enter a country with the intent of marrying, but answer 'no' to said question, you can be accused (and have to prove otherwise) of violating immigration policy by not telling the truth on the visitor visa. And if you have lied on a visa application, you can be banned for 10 years.

My wife entered the US via Visa Waiver Program. No questions asked regarding intent to marry. If you plan on getting married and you require a visa, you will require a fiancé visa (which can take quite a while to obtain).

[zondaracer]

Check Airman: I believe our F/O hours are logged under PICUS (which if you guys don't use there is Pilot in command under supervision) so not sure if they'll be useful of if I need the full PIC hours...??


At most companies in the US, they only accept legitimate PIC time, no PICUS. When they are asking for PIC, they want to know who signed for the aircraft. They don't really care who was touching the controls or who was pretending to be commander, they only care about who signed off on the aircraft.

[Tinstaafl]

I came to the US via a fiance visa. I think it took about 5 months to get, with a huge amount of paperwork, some money & an interview. Once in the States you have a limited period in which to marry. After marriage you then have to apply to adjust your status to permanent resident ('green card'). That took a between 1.5 - 2 years. Possibly a bit over two years from marriage to green card. In the meantime you can apply & pay for a temporary work permit which must be renewed annually. You aren't permitted to leave the country - or, more accurately, can't without it affecting your permanent residency application - unless you apply & pay for an 'advance parole'. This lets you leave and, importantly, re-enter the US while your green card application is being processed. It too must be renewed annually.

One slight benefit, due to the time it took for the application to adjust status to be approved, was that my green card was issued for 10 years instead of the usual 2 years or so. As it turned out, being married for more than a certain qualifying period removes the tempory green card step.

[captain two-holds]

Thanks again guys

One question that seems really important for me to ask is:
Does anyone know of a person who's migrated to the US and actually got work in aviation (or more importantly a cockpit) while waiting for a work permit, or even afterwards....???

I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about spouses and yourselves moving, but no idea if anyone's managed to fly afterwards? I suppose it's been too much of an investment for me to work in a bar or coffee shop for two years while my flying skills go down the drain.

Cheers again to everyone
Ben

[Tinstaafl]

You won't get to work anywhere without a work permit, except for labouring jobs with shady companies that don't ask too many questions. I didn't even try to work until it was legal for me to do so. If you get caught then you'll have screwed your green card application. As for the rest of your question, I work as a pilot. I currently fly SIC in a Beechjet, PIC in a Kingair 200 (both for their owners under Part 91 ie private ops), and a Navajo I manage under both Part 91 (owner) & Part 135 (charter/public transport). I've also flown Pt 135 in Kingair 90 & 200.



[/i]Later...[/i]

I should add that I found work, including flying work (Pt 135), with a temp. work permit while awaiting the outcome of my green card application

[ra4000]

The waiting time for getting the green
Card change from the region that you apply from
California,Florida ect.will take much longer that
North Dakota,Wisconsin ect.
In the beginning most likely you will get a job in the regional
Pay is not the best but still you will fly nice airplanes
Embraer 190-175-135 CRJ.
You will have a bright future.
The hard part is stay married

[A Pandy]

Captain two-holds,
To answer your question, I came to the US about 21 years ago to hours build and ended up flight instructing for a few years and then getting an extended visa which enabled me to continue building time including turbo-prop time.
After getting married and applying for a change of status I had to wait about 6 months to get my first work permit. This enabled me to apply for more permanent positions and I ended up flying for a multi-national US corporation with operations in all continents. The actual green card took another 2 years or more to obtain. Still fly for the same company and starting later this year will bring a Gulfstream G650 on line.
If you end up moving to the US because of marriage be prepared to spend several years building time and/or working crummy jobs because unless you have quality turbine time the good jobs are few and far between.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
By the way which part of Wales do you live in ?

[captain two-holds]

A Pandy
I live near Cardigan/Aberporth, which is on the west coast as you probably know.
I'm not against instructing, in fact i'd like to do it, but it doesn't sound like they'll sponsor or give a job to a non-permanent resident.....so going to the US asap would mean I'd never even get something half-decent, hmmmm. And I don't have the money to hour build, bugger. It sounds like being here for a few years would be the only way around it, not ideal though.

Cheers all

[I.R.PIRATE]

Some good info here.

I would like to pose another scenario that I am trying to make head or tails of.

I work and get paid outside of the US. I plan to keep this job, and just live in the US.

My wife and I would both hold 10 year tourist visas for the US that allow 6 month stays at a time.

Is it possible for us to base ourselves in the US, without the requirement for green cards? We just plan to rent a place for the next two years or so. Anybody with the answers on how we have to go about doing this, or if it is even possible?

Thanks in advance

[ra4000]

doesn't matter how long is the visa,you're still a turist
you'r not legal to work in the U.S.
if you get the social secury card (you need it for everything)still
say "not valid for work".

[jrmyl]

I think that would not be a problem, as long as you both are leaving the country prior to the expiration of your visa. You are not working here so who cares if you are staying for a length of time as a tourist. Now, finding someone to rent you an apartment might be another issue.

[pilotchute]

I obtained one of these visas 8 years ago when I was told that my multiple planned entries to the US for the ski season would pose a problem

Not once did it make my life easy going through immigration. I was taken for questioning EVERY TIME I entered the US and subjected to pointless interviews wanting to know my "real intentions" for entering the country. The same question was asked every time, "why didn't you get a visa waiver?" I would explain the reason and they just kept repeating the question over and over. You would think the embassy that issued the visa to me would know that this was going to happen.

I later found out that the B1/2 visa is primarily for visiting business people who aren't actually working in the US but have conferences or meetings to attend. If you just wanted to hang out in the US for a few months a year I would suggest contacting your local embassy to arrange for an interview to explain what you want to do. Otherwise you may end up with more trouble than what it's worth. Then again I tried that and look what it got me!

[Pontius]

I'm a JAA/EASA ATP holder

I have 250 TT

I'm not trying to sound demeaning or any such thing but, with those hours, you have a 'frozen' ATP which is quite unique to JAALand and something most Americans have never even heard of, let alone know how to interpret. An FAA ATP = 1500 hours, so it's probably worth establishing your qualifications a bit more accurately before setting off for the Wild West looking for a paid flying job (even if you do get the right to live and work in the US).

[MarkerInbound]

Ah, didn't see that part. As the holder of a JAA/EASA commercial license you'll have to get a FAA private certificate first (either one "based on" your JAA/EASA license or a "stand alone" one. Then you'll have to turn right around and get a FAA commercial. There's no provision to "convert" a foreign license to a FAA certificate at a level higher than private unless it's Canadian and unlike the ATP, there is no relief from having to hold a FAA private certificate before you apply for the commercial unless you have military flight time.

[captain two-holds]

Pontius, you wouldn't happen to be the Matthew Pontius in Goodyear would you haha?? And that wasn't demeaning, I'm glad to be learning how difficult this is proving to be!!
Sounds like instructing would be the only thing I could do until I get the full 1500 hours? Or maybe not?! Anyway i've given up on the idea and would have to build time here first......
cheers marker inbound too, seems like a long way round huh!

[zondaracer]

Sounds like instructing would be the only thing I could do until I get the full 1500 hours? Or maybe not?!

You could instruct up to 500 hrs
Then banner tow or aerial surveying up to 1000hrs
Skydive pilot at around 700-1000 hrs
Part 135 PIC at 1200 hrs
Regional airlines at 1500 hours
YMMV

[captain two-holds]

thanks zonda racer, so i need at least 500 (double what I currently have!) to start instructing?! That'll be some extremely expensive hour building huh!

[zondaracer]

No, what I was saying is that under 500 hours, instructing would be your only option (there are other options but very hard to come by). The more hours you have, the more options exist to find employment. Sorry if I wasn't clear before

[captain two-holds]

cheers zonda racer, all clear

[jackcarls0n]

I am currently flying in Nepal. I have an immigrant visa and work permit through the diversity visa.

I however have flown on a two crew-single engine turbo prop aircraft(as per the requirement of our aviation authority due to terrain). Flying to places like Lukla which is considered most dangerous airport in the world and other airfields similar to that.

both the pilots hold aircraft specific pic type rating for the aircraft. one pilot flies one leg of the flight and me usually the sector back or vice versa. who ever flies the leg logs it as PIC and rest is logged as SIC if your doing the radios and duties of SIC.
with a TT of 1800 hrs and a total of 1200 hrs pic and 600 hrs sic (including 1000 hrs pic on turbo prop). But i am not current on Instrument nor current on multi engine and only have about 20 hrs of ME time.

I plan to come to US get my BFR, IPC and ATP done. What are the chances of getting a job then? and what kinda jobs would i get?

Any suggestions?

[MarkerInbound]

First, welcome to America.

The good news that getting your ATP will count for your Flight Review (the B was dropped from the official title years ago) and IPC.

The bad news is your multi time is low. All the RJ operators are going to want 100 hours MEL. Even Cape Air flying CE-402s wants 25 MEL for their F/Os. You will have to find some way to up your MEL time to be competive.

[jackcarls0n]

Thank you.
Thanks for the info. Taking the ATP checkride would make me instrument current. But i need to log some night and multi hours plus instrument. Thus, i guess i need a bfr and ipc to fly solo. I am also planning to log about 50 mel hrs to meet the night and instrument hours on a be 76, this should make proficient on ME and instrument flying i hope.
Would then i be legible for some kinda job if yes, what kind RJ or Multi piston on 91 or 135 like cape air?

[MarkerInbound]

Ah, there are always details. You can get a private certificate based on your Nepal license by having your CAA verify your license to the FAA. Part of the FAA guidance to their Inspectors is to remind the new certifcate holder that that certificate is only good as long as their foreign license is valid and that they need a flight review before they fly under their FAA cert. While the regs only say that a flight review has to have one hour ground school and one hour flight training, I'd think the FR for a 61.75 pilot could go on most of a day to cover all the differences. In order to have an instrument rating on your 61.75 private certificate you will have to pass a knowledge test, either a foreign pilot differences test or the regular instrument written. But there is no checkride.

If you have 25 hours MEL now and log 50 hours to fill all the sub-totals for the ATP you'll still only have 75 hours MEL so you'll still be short the MEL time for most RJ jobs and most likely be looking at a recip or turboprop F/O position.

[jackcarls0n]

I already have a FAA CPL with IR and MEL.
I did my initials in USA :)

what is min mel hour requirement to get a job to fly multi engine aircrafts? Not necessarily at Regional level?

[Carbon Brakes 300]

With 12 million illegal Mexicans in the US what do you have to lose? Head to the US, get married and don't leave the country until you get your green card. If you are flexible and willing to work you will get a job. This thread might be an indication that supply is starting to catch up with demand. $5000 sign on bonus at Eagle - Airline Pilot Central Forums




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[MarkerInbound]

Ah, disregard.

what is min mel hour requirement to get a job to fly multi engine aircrafts? Not necessarily at Regional level?

Every job will be different. You meet the legal requirements by holding a commercial MEL. Requirements above that are normally driven by the company's insurance and training program. Some companies want 50 hours, some want 200. If they can get enough applicants they have no reason to change their requirements.

[captain two-holds]

Hi Guys me again

Just wondering if you need your FAA Commercial license in order to instruct? I currently have a European ATP..... it sounds like I can't convert my license to anything higher than a FAA PPL, it would then take me ages to build time towards a CPL if that's the minimum I need in order to teach?
Any idea how many hours difference the two licenses are??
Cheers all

[Tinstaafl]

You must hold an FAA CPL + IR, or an ATP, to hold an FAA instructor rating.

You wrote earlier that you have something like 250 hours. How can you have an ATPL with only those hours? Conversely, if you hold a CPL, why do you keep referring to it as an ATP?

[captain two-holds]

We seem to do things very differently in this part of the world. I hold an EASA ATPL (made up of CPL+IR+MCC, the later being a multi crew course on a B737 sim,) which is the equivalent to an FAA ATP, and obviously requires much less hours to get.

I was referring to the FAA CPL, and how many hours I may need to build to get the FAA equivalent of the CPL +IR. For example if I need to build another 300 hours just to get my FAA licenses then I may as well stay over here until I get 1000+ hours.
Cheers for your info by the way

[Tinstaafl]

I hold a UK ATPL as well as an FAA ATP so I think I have some familiarity with the system(s). The minimum hours required for a UK/JAA/EASA, FAA, Australian & pretty much every other ATPL is 1,500 (with various minima within that 1,500 hours) and requires a skills test. I bet a pound to a penny you *don't* hold an ATPL if you only have 250 hours. A JAA CPL+IR+MCC (with or without passes in the ATPL exams) is not an ATPL, and is not equivalent to an FAA ATP.

Check what's written on your licence.

The minimum hours for a Part 61 (equivalent to the UK's 'self improver/modular' route) FAA Commercial licence is 250 , with various breakdowns within that amount. You shouldn't need 300 hours to get it, just what ever is needed to meet the breakdowns and enough skill to pass a recommendation check for the flight test. Similarly for the Instrument Rating - check what the minimum requirements are then compare them to your log book + enough skill to pass a recommendation and then a check ride.

The instructor rating will require some amount of training (there's a requirement for a certain amount of instruction from an FAA licenced instructor, but it's not much.

The FARs allow for all training done overseas, by an appropriately qualified instructor, to count towards FAA required training. Only instances where a sign-off from an FAA instructor is required has to be given by an FAA instructor.

[captain two-holds]

Apologies Tinstaafl, I forgot to write that it was a "Frozen ATPL" (meaning until you get 1500 hours you can't be legal PIC,) I did write that earlier in the thread but not in my recent post. I did not mean 'equivalent' in terms of hours or experience, just in terms of title, anyway I wasn't clear so I apologize again.
Cheers for your info, all useful stuff

[Tinstaafl]

Still not equivalent then. You hold a *Commercial* licence + IR + ATPL theory. You can be legal PIC in public transport operations, but you are limited to PIC in single pilot aircraft. No different to the holder of an FAA Commercial licence + Instrument + ATP theory, for all practical purposes, so that's what you're equivalent to. The whole 'frozen ATPL' language is nothing more than a European (well, it started as a UK thing, I seem to recall) shorthand for CPL+IR+ATPL exams. In recent years it has broadened to often include MCC as well. I also think I remember it started as a marketing & advertising ploy by the CAP509 (integrated, in JAA speak) schools, as a way to improve the perception of what they were selling. I saw it start to happen in Australia too. The idea is no different to someone with a PPL & passes in CPL theory saying that they have a 'Frozen CPL', or a student pilot with passes in the PPL exams having a 'frozen PPL'.

If you're serious about a move to the US - or anywhere away from the European terminology - I strongly suggest you use the correct name for your qualifications. 'fATPL' is a meaningless term here and leaves the impression you're trying to deceive about what level of licence you actually hold. Bear in mind that your ATPL exams & MCC aren't worth anything in the US (except your understanding of the theory will be rather better than a typical CPL candidate here). Only the licence you have been issued counts. Which, by the way, is no different to some one trying to get credits for their ICAO licence(s) to get a UK/JAR/EASA licence. It's much easier going from ICAO to FAA than ICAO to UK/JAR/EASA, though.

If you go to FAA: Home (http://www.faa.gov) and look for the links to the regulations you can find exactly what hours you need for an FAA CPL & an IR. Pay particular attention to how the cross-country time is defined for each licence & rating - it varies! Part 61 of CFR14 (often referred to as FAR61) is the section you need.

In fact, here's the link to Part 61. Definitions at the beginning, and the requirements for each certificate further down:eCFR &mdash; Code of Federal Regulations (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=bbb870c4c2f6c0027ccf11eb908628b3&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.1)

[jackcarls0n]

Thanks for the info MarkerInBound

[captain two-holds]

Ok so we've established my license is crap, but I haven't been pulling the wool over anyone's eyes, like I said if you bothered to read back through the thread you'll see the first time I wrote 'ATP' instead of 'Frozen' was a few days ago, and I certainly won't be doing that again.....

I agree, it's a way of selling the qualification better and people including myself fall for it. The difference is that here you can be an FO on an A320 with this damn "Frozen ATPL", and obviously in America you can't, which I agree with anyway as it means more experienced guys at the front. I've always known that Airlines seem to need around 1500+ hours before they'll look at you over there, I'm just trying to find a way into US aviation, regardless of what I fly.
Thanks for the link!

[Tinstaafl]

No, I didn't write that your licence was crap. I wrote that it was not an ATP and nor was it the equivalent of an FAA ATP. Your first post in this thread

Hi Guys

I'm a JAA/EASA ATP holder...

stated that you hold an ATP. Later, it transpired that you don't, in fact, hold an ATPL, but a CPL. Nothing wrong with that (I held one for years) but it's not an ATPL. You also wrote that your CPL + IR + MCC is the equivalent of an FAA ATP, which it's not. It seems you have (or had) a degree of misunderstanding about the privileges & limitations for these licences, possibly including your own licence.

Your CPL qualifies you to fly as PIC in public transport for *single pilot* certificated aircraft, and SIC in multi-crew types. Much the same as an FAA CPL**. In some ways, slightly better: JAR requires 700 hours for PIC in public transport ops. FAR requires 1200 for IFR Part 135 ops (that's charter/air taxi ops) so you're slightly better off in that respect.

Better you get it sorted out now, than when you're in front of an interviewer who you led to believe in your application that you hold an ATP(L) but who then reads what's printed on your licence. What qualification(s) you actually hold also affects converting to another jurisdiction's licence. What you can or can't do to convert to an FAA depends on your licence & hours. If you held a JAR ATPL like you originally wrote then chances are you have the required hours for an FAA ATP, in which case the conversion is remarkably simple (one theory exam, one checkride that's pretty much like an IR flight test, no instructor recommendation required). Converting a CPL + IR, however, is a bit more complicated & expensive (two checkrides + 2 instructor recommendations + two theory exams *and* the required cross country experience is more specific. The Commercial checkride also involves manoeuvres that just aren't done for any JAR licence so practice will probably be needed for those)

Lots of opportunities for FAA CPLs, even those who don't meet the Part 135 requirements. Aerial survey & photography, para dropping, power & pipeline inspection, VFR Part 135 in some places (500 hrs needed though). Even instructing, which is a cheaper rating to get in the US than in JAR-land.


**There is a rule change coming that affects FAA CPLs that will prevent them being an SIC in airline ops in large aircraft (>12,500 lb MTOW). Can't remember the exact details because it doesn't affect me, but it's either that you'll need to hold an ATP to be an SIC, or you'll need ATP hours with your CPL ie 1500 hrs. CPLs still will be able to be an SIC in >12,500 lb types, but just not in Part 121 air transport ops ie airline stuff. Didn't used to be the case, but this law was enacted as a reaction to a regional airline fatal crash and takes effect over the next couple of years.

[herman the crab]

You must hold an FAA CPL + IR, or an ATP, to hold an FAA instructor rating.

When did that change? Or is that just for FW?

As far as I was aware you could have a CFI(H) with CPL and FI exam/checkride passes and around 150 hours.

HTC

[Check Airman]

I believe that was always the case for fixed wing. Never looked into the helicopter stuff.

[captain two-holds]

Haha well touche' I guess! Read PONTIUS' comment if you don't believe me, I know what I meant but it clearly wasn't the first time I wrote it, but there's no way I would have mixed this up for job purposes. I really appreciate the amount of info you're still providing me haha, despite my obvious lack of broad knowledge!

I think I'll have to put all my eggs in the instructor basket, and hope my license is transferable into an FAA CPL, earlier in this thread someone wrote that you can only convert to a PPL regardless of what license you carry, but I did most of my hours in Goodyear-Arizona and someone I know is going to check if they're transferable........

Found a place in Florida to do an Instructor Course, pre-requisites are:
"FAA Single and Multi-engine Commercial Ratings with a minimum of 15 hours Multi-Engine PIC time." So apart from the multi PIC time I should be ok providing I can somehow get my CPL instead of PPL!

It sounds like there are indeed opportunities for VFR work for a CPL holder, I wouldn't be against any of the things you listed.
Thanks again!

[Flyrr100]

I'm a JAA/EASA ATP holder, and I live in the UK, problem is I have an American girlfriend who lives in Michigan, and i'm wondering how easy it is to move over to the USA for a flying career?!

After you marry the girl and with your JAA ATP converted to FAA you shouldn't have any problems getting a job here. The majors are hiring and the regionals are begging pilots to work there.

Major... around 30k-40k first year. On reserve for a few years. Get used to working on weekends. But after a year or two pay will dramatically increase.

Regionals... around 30k-40k first year. But expect to top out at around 40k as a FO. Captains can earn into six figures but only after ten years or so.

Good luck.

[locblue]

Hi,

I am based outside the US and have in excess of 12,000 TT on widebodies with 9,000+ hrs on B777 variants including 3,000+ hrs PIC and instructional experience, and 3,000+ hrs on A340s. My wife is American, and i foresee no problems obtaining a Green Card. With my experience, will i be able to get in with the Majors, and if so, will i start as an FO and have to work my way up to command again? Any of the majors hiring?

Appreciate any guidance.

[MarkerInbound]

Every American airline you've heard the name of operates by seniority. So yes, you'll start in the right seat of the lowest paying aircraft with the worst schedules. United will be hiring but still have 1400 out on the street. Their furloughees still have 7 or 8 years of recall rights. Many of them have found something to pay their bills so they may pass on the recall for a few years to see how things shake out. Which means the people hired off the street will be at the bottom of the list for a long time. Delta is probably 50/50, their new contract ups their hours some which may negate the need to hire. I think US Air is hiring. American may hire, or they may be rolled into US Air.

[locblue]

Tks, Claybird and MarkerInbound. I'm presently earning beyond the top scale of a UAL Captain, with no complaints whatsoever with my present airline beyond the hard slog of organizing my days off and vacation days to get stateside, if the wife relocates to the US. I don't mind taking a pay cut, but RHS at the bottom would mean lousy pay and schedules for many years.

The sandpit doesn't appeal to me unless they commence basing crew in the US. Also not keen on a commuting contract with KAL, given the mixed feedback on working conditions there.

So, it appears there is no painless way of living and working in the US for me...

Merry X-Mas!

[Check Airman]

If you're already doing better than a united 777 captain, stay where you are. If united is anything like the other 777 operators in the us, that seat is likely to be over 15-20 years away. FedEx won't be an option either right now. Unfortunately, they currently require you to live in the us for 5 years before starting your employment.

[locblue]

Tks, Claybird and CA. Status quo it is....

[sonicguy]

what airline is recruting in the US? (except regionals...)

[galaxy flyer]

None, except for a very few CO new hires, but that is in the middle of the UA/CO SLI. No one sees hiring on a major scale here for 2013.

GF

[MarkerInbound]

Alaska will most likely be hiring next year. US Air and Hawaiian have been taking apps this fall.

[oompa loompa]

Similar query; I married an American, and we're thinking of a move stateside at some point. I've 3000h, 2500h on 40T Jet (BAe 146), all of it as an FO (so only about 250h true P1).

After getting a green card and converting the licence:

- would I be able to look at regionals or at majors?
- reading Flyrr100's post about 30-40k starting, going up after the first year or two; what does it go up to? what does the salary profile look like over say a 5-10 year period?
- I know this is a really, really broad question, but what sort of rosters are there? trips? fixed days off? bid system?

Thanks in advance.

[oompa loompa]

Oh - and how does the whole type rating thing work in the US? is it paid by the pilot, airline, or an intermediate arrangement (bonding, loan)?

thanks again.

[MarkerInbound]

The airline types you, no money out of your pocket. Some of the smaller operators will want you to sign a training contract saying you'll stay a year or two afterwards or pay back a pro rata share but none of the majors do this. I've always worked the dark side of the ramp so I've got no experience with pax schedules. I've heard pilots talking about 3 on/4 off and 4 on/3 off but I know some folks can get day turns - fly out in the morning and be back at night. EVERYTHING at US airlines depends on your senority based on date of hire. What equipment you fly, schedules, vacations.

And I'd say Flyrr100 is a bit high for starting regional pay, more like $25,000. The web site Airline Pilot Central has most US airline pay scales in the "Profile" section on their home page. Looks like a Delta or United 747 Captain is over 200k after 10 years.

[MarkerInbound]

Forgot, you meet the posted mins for hiring at US Airways and United. But minimums and what's competitive are two different things. Most people say 1000 turbine PIC makes you much more likely to be hired. Which is why many pilots went the regional route, figuring they'd be in and out in 4 or 5 year. That hasn't been working too well since 2001.

[oompa loompa]

Thanks guys - that's really (really) useful.

Here's a (somewhat) theoretical question: which would have me in a better position in mid 2015:

1/ Stay here, get command, get 1000h PIC (which takes 2.5yrs), and be in a better position to apply directly to the majors in mid 2015.
OR
2/ Join a regional now and work up from there.


Also, a completely separate question: what about LCC's? same story?

[MarkerInbound]

The problem is the RVR in everyone's crystal ball is <300. If you know that the present job will lead to command in a year and you'll log 700 hours a year I'd say stay. If you show up here, first you have to be hired. Yeah, yeah, I know we're going to have a pilot shortage. From what I've heard, Delta won't be hiring this year, American still has pilots on the street from 2001, so does United. So no one has been leaving the regionals. We have a whole generation of pilots who spent 60,000-90,000 thousand getting their ratings, thinking they'd suffer through a couple years at the regionals and hit the gravy train now on fifth year FO pay. Comair, one of the older and larger regionals, shut down last year and put over 800 pilots on the street. I've heard Eagle, American's regional code share, will be hiring this year but they've got 7 year FOs as does Air Wisconsin.

I don't have any connections in the LCC world. Sprint appears to be hiring, Frontier and Virgin are not. And Virgin does say "1000 hours turbine PIC preferred." And unless you're going to stay there, they seem to be running 6 years to upgrade.

[Check Airman]

Oompa,

I'd go with option 1. Unless you're friends with the Chief Pilot, it will be exceedingly difficult to get into a major without turbine PIC (TPIC) time.

[oompa loompa]

Thanks guys, again.

I thought that would be the case; Option 1 works better anyway as the practicalities of getting a green card, licence conversion, etc. will probably take a while anyway.

[MarkerInbound]

That should work. I've got a friend at Eagle, 15 Captain, lives in base (DFW) so no commuting to work, bids what he wants and gets it and makes about 100k. He's not going anywhere.

[zondaracer]

The hard part of jumping to the regionals is their instability. I know some guys who are on their 3rd regional in 5 years due to furloughs and companies closing shop. These guys are perpetually stuck on the bottom of their seniority lists and can't move up due to all the whipsawing.

[PCLCREW]

Guys/Girls if your thinking about coming to the USA in search of a major airline job I would just stay where your at (for now).
Many airlines are laying pilots off right now... North American, Evergreen, World, USA Jet, Ryan International... just to name a few. Plus all the people at the regionals are trying to move on.
Very few airlines are hiring execpt regionals (which all now require 1500tt).
Just to give an example im at: 6800tt / 5000 jet / ATP and TR in the CRJ/A320 and have about 600PIC... I work for Pinnacle Airlines which is about to lay off 1000-1500 pilots.
I've applied at about 30 companies from the USA to Hong Kong... I have not recieved one phone call back from any of the companies in the USA I've applied at... Not to say just because I can't get a call back doesnt mean you cant either, I just wanted to point out how crappy it is in the USA right now.
Good Luck

[Check Airman]

Strange as it seems, I always wanted to fly short haul and live in US.

No you don't. Unless you fancy 6 sector days with 5 hours of flight pay.

[jsfboat]

I'm a F/O for a regional airline and am starting the process to bring my soon to be Colombian wife up, she was a flight attendant and will want to do that here. This is a good thread, and as Zondaracer and others have stated, the regionals aren't the greatest to be, the only way I'm dealing with it is that I keep telling myself it's building my flight time and I'm supposed to upgrade within the next 6 months. There is a guy at my airline from Nottingham, his last job was at Colgan Airlines on the Q400. Flight instructing is the way to build time to get to the 1500, I did this but was hired here with 950TT. Some of the guys/gals in my new hire class had 250ish (1 had 11 multi-engine but she washed out) and most of them are sweating having the ATP mins by august, if they don't they will lose their jobs. The 250 hour wonders will not happen again here in the states.

[sonicguy]

guys,

Who is hiring?

Total 6000 hours, captain on a corporate Falcon in Europe, flown the Hawker 800XPI and having a green card!

Will take a job in the US tomorrow!

Cheers

[HJones]

Hi,

I went through the hideous process back in 2002 after I left the RAf. I ended up getting married! - It was still a long drawn out process, but by far the easiest method of getting into the US.

I am also a Welshman, however I now hold a US passport (as of 3 years ago). A friend tried to move over on the business license, but failed dismally even after he bought a flatering business for over 50K$ ! He couldnt get permission to stay for more than 90 days! - It is real madness !

I am currently persuing my PPl here, when funds permit!

Have you thought about approaching one of the flight schools over here? Maybe you can broker a deal for sponsorship especially with the Farsi!

We have an ANA training facility near me, - Bakersfield, CA , or I beleive a lot of the big boys have schools. Perhaps you could use the European angle as experience to get sponsored. Or perhaps the CAA / FAA courses that some schools offer. You would be tied to them for a number of years with the sponsorship, but perhaps that would help .

There are a few UAV/UAS jobs being advertised here at the moment also - check Lockheed Martin etc.

Good luck !
Hugh