funeral

[9gmax]

message to all ex-Sabena staff.....
the funeral of our colleague is on saturday 13th / 0945 hr at the church of Overijse....all gather there in full uniform as a sign of respect ...

for those who do not know the background....
being unable to find a new job ( pilot A330/340 ) after the bankrupcy of Sabena last year, life became too hard for him and he took his own life last week, leaving behind his wife and five children.........Let us all remember him...and wish all the strength and support to his wife and kids....
.he was a great guy and this shouldn't have happened to him ( nor to anybody else....we were all left behind emtpyhanded by our government ).....

[Belgian Beauty]

Well he hasn't done his wife and kids any favours by blowing his brains out and leaving them alone has he.An act of total selfishness as far as i'm concerned.What complete b***ocks that its the goverments fault.Yes i feel sorry he lost his job but surely nothings worth the pain and anguish he caused his family.Who found him?Nice for your child to come home and find that daddys brains on the bathroom floor.His whole family has to live with his selfish act.For him .........well he doesn't have to worry any more does he.

[Konkordski]

As much as I'd hate to speak ill of the departed, I must admit I sympathise with Belgian Beauty here. Touch wood, but I sincerely hope that I'd have the courage to put my family's concerns above my own if I was ever in position to be considering so desperate a course of action.

[PAXboy]

Before we decide how 'selfish' a person is to commit suicide, please consider the following....

A person that is clinically depressed, as can happen following redundancy, divorce or other major traumas in a person's life, does not think in the same way that a healthy person does.

There is an expression used by Coronoer (in the USA, Medical Examiner) that sums it up, "Took their own life, whilst the balance of his/her mind was disturbed." What this means is that the chemical balance of our brain becomes imbalanced, when we are depressed. If this is not recognised in time, it can lead to severe depression and suicide.

For example, 18 months ago an well know English photographer took his own life. He had been been known to all as a cheerful and respectable man all his life. He was given some medication for a particular condition (I forget what) and a side effect of these pills was to make him depressed. Within six weeks of taking them - he died.

When a person is feeling 'low' or 'bad' they do not immediately realise that they are depressed. It can take many months for depression to be identified. Those that are used to taking decisions and being respected are likely to feel a serious change in their lives when that work ends suddenly. This may lead to a chemical imbalance.

Those that have such an imbalance DO NOT REALISE that they are loved and appreciated in the way that they are. It is well documented that they THINK that their family will be better off without them. They THINK that no one loves them - even though people give them love all the time.

There are some similarities with the eating disorder Bulimia Nervosa. The person THINKS that they are fat, even though they are thin. When they look in the mirror, they see something different to your or I because ... the balance of their mind is distrubed.

Please note that I am not a medical doctor but have known many families with people who have experiened depression (both light and heavy) as well as those families where people have killed themselves as a result. This is due to some (non-religious) charity work that I do in my spare time.

Mental difficulties are something that we know little about and the old fashioned, "Pull yourself together" is no longer the correct approach.

May I suggest that the next time you hear of a person taking their own life, you respond with a little more understanding.

[Belgian Beauty]

Yes yes yes paxboy we all know that.Obviuosly these people are not in the same state of mind as us.But i can feel no sympathy for this man i'm very sorry but i can only see what he has done to the family that he has left behind. Totally selfish behaviour.He apparently did not even leave a note. How can your family come to terms with that.Not knowing why or whether or not it was their fault.This of course is just my opinion. But sympathy SORRY NO!

[PAXboy]

Sympathy for his family? Yes, of course, a great deal. As I said, I have sat with these families and seen the desolation they experience.

Sympathy for him? Yes, because he was ill. Sympathy because he could not see the love and good life that was waiting for him all the time.

Angry at him? Yes, because we can see the result but, it may not have been his fault because he may not have realised what he was going to impose upon his family - for the rest of their lives. Only a few weeks ago, a friend of mine (now 34) was crying yet again at her father who took his own life when she was five years old.

So - what can we do?
We can look around us and consider who else may be vulnerable. We can write a letter/e-mail/postcard to a friend who is in difficulty. Invite them round for a meal. Better still, invite yourself around to their place. You might then notice some aspects of their life that have changed. You might see things that are out of place, literally or otherwise. This doesn't mean that you ask them if they are feeling suicidal but you keep your eyes and ears open.

We can also write to those that we THINK are OK, because they actually might not be!

[Pegasus77]

Paxboy... when a murderer kills somebody, because he is insane, it is still his own fault. We are all responsible for our own deeds. Maybe this man was psychologically ill, he still left his wife and children behind.
And yes I also feel sorry for him, but much stronger I feel that he was a §%$& to leave his family behind like that.

My deep sympathy goes to the wife and especially the children, who are the real victims here.

[PAXboy]

I don't want to get picky over this but really ...
when a murderer kills somebody, because he is insane, it is still his own fault.

No. That is the whole point! If he was insane he would be judged, "Guilty - but Insane" and he would NOT have been responsible for the murder. Even though he did commit the act.

The man in question (this thread) lost his job and - POSSIBLY - his mind. If you cannot feel sorry for him (as well as his family) then I feel sorry for you.

[JudyTTexas]

Gotta say I'm with PAXboy on this one...

It would be easy to express anger at the one who left us
in dire straits... Anger does play a role, but runs its course
through the grieving process.

IMHO, first and foremost, there are NO guarantees in this world.
This means whether it is by intentional suicide or natural causes.
Our lives may be impacted by decisions of others, but it is NOT the
basis for our existance.

I sincerely empathize what the family are going through at this time.
...and yes, I do feel compassion for the pilot who took his own life.

[Polar_stereographic]

PAXboy,

With you 100% on this.

A good friend of mine lost his wife in a similar way, leaving husband and two kids. My first reaction was on of anger towards her, but that was soon replaced with a feeling of sympathy for her as well as the rest of the family.

I knew her before she became ill, and I assure you that she would never have done anything like that then. What she did was spur of the moment, at a time when she had little control over her life. What goes on the the grey matter of us all is not understood even by the professionals in my opinion.

My sympathies to all concerned in this case too.

PS

[what's it doing now?]

I'm with you PAXboy and Polar Stereographic. It's a terrible tragedy that this man has taken his life. I do sympathise with his family and hope that they come out of this ok. My heart goes out to them. If only one could turn the clock back.

Of course all of this will fall on some deaf ears. Maybe Belgian Beauty should change her pseudonym to something more appropriate. Because she doesn't seem very beautiful to me. Quite the contrary.

[9gmax]

Simple message to all of you who took the time to respond....
this forum is open to all, we can all have our ideas spread on it and I'm not going to favour one of you.....but...
I can tell you that this guy REALLY loved his family / kids ( knowing that the average family in belgium has only 1 kid and he had 5 ( I have 4..)) and having known him in "normal" times one would NEVER EVER have thought that he would commit such an act.....he was a real family man.....this guy has been through hell in the past having overcome a very aggressive cancer, having regained his flying licence etc....life has not been easy on him.....one can only imagine the condition he was in when he commited the act......
thank you to those who showed sympathy.....and to the others I would suggest to think a bit harder before writing !"£$%^&*()

[Belgian Beauty]

I'm very sorry if some people have found my replies unsympathetic,but i thought that were we all entitled to our opinions here. I won't apologise as i believe in what i said.
Whats this Button Do...........Perhaps you should change your name too......to A***hole!!!!!

[flyblue]

Your replies unsympathetic? Don't make yourself any discount! You simply show ignorance for what mental illnesses are, and arrogance for assuming you have understood it all. I just wish one day you will be able to know how wrong you were.

All of you that don't understand how he could do that to his beloved family...isn't the fact that he did it explicative enough of his mental state?

I suggest "Darkness visible" by William Styron for those who are interested on the subject.

I have spent years to study on the subject, since I was researching for my graduation thesis which was about a writer that committed suicide. One thing I have understood is that when you are in this mental state your perception of reality is completely wrong , and your decisions distorted. Think of the mothers who kill their children because they don't want them to suffer. It is like living through distorting glasses. Your brain is working through delusions. That is why we cannot judge or understand what was going through this poor guy's mind. We think we can because we rationalise, but of course OUR brain is working straight, while his was not. I am sure he thought he was doing his family a favor, or something like that

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

Extreme stress makes people do strange and sometimes terrible things.

In the years 1980 to 1988 I knew five people who killed themselves, four of them were friends, one of them a very close friend.

Without exception it was a great shock to all around them that they took the action that they did. I cannot understand why they did what they did. But they all have my deepest sympathy, and if there had been anything I could have done to help, I would have.

[Belgian Beauty]

Are you all just assuming that i know nothing about mental illness. Having had my father in law trying to kill himself after my mother in law left i think i know quite a bit on the subject. Yes of course he wasn't thinking straight all he could see was the fact his wife had left him. He thought that his life was worthless. Slowly and surely we convinced him otherwise. But the pain he caused by his attempted suicide was selfishness on his part too. He didn't care about anybody but himself and his feelings, which he has every right to do. But he didn't stop to think about the effect it had on everybody. And after losing their mother how his children would feel having to mourn their father. So don't tell me i don't understand i do .

[Taildragger]

Paxboy .... You mentioned Bulemia in one of your posts as being similar in some ways to depression. I have a very close friend who's daughter is at this moment at death's door...literally, with an eating disorder, which in reality is a mental problem. We do not know if she is going to survive. Now some people have suggested that all she had to do before this disease took hold, was to eat. She could no more eat than gouge her eyes out.!! She was held back by the mental state she was in. She had no control over herself and the mind was saying to her "Don't eat....you are fat and look horrible"
There are those, in this thread, who suggest that the subject of this thread took the easy way out and left his kids and family to fend for themselves. I suppose that is the practical outcome of all this, but did he intentionally do that.?? No one knows for sure, but close friends of his in this thread have suggested that he was a lovong parent and father. In the depths of depression, people do strange things. Whatever your views are on this...right or wrong, can we keep a human viewpoint on this tragedy and shed a tear for a fellow human's weaknesses, and think of how his family are feeling at this moment.

Belgian Beauty.... In this case "What does this button do" is a real PPRuNe non de plume.
It was "What's it doing now" who so raised your ire. So perhaps you owe the one you hit so hard an apology for calling him what you did. :(

[Belgian Beauty]

My apologies to Whats this button do. Sorry!!:)

[Tight Slot]

OK all together - group hug.

Now isn't that better? Thought so.