London City Jet Centre

[Opsbeatch]

Just thought I'd share some intel with you,

The Jet Centre are now doing their own fuel, no one else is permitted to fuel on the ramp. If any of you have a contract with Shell then this is now not available.

The cost of this fuel you ask? Over $6 per gallon...!

Only way you can get discounts is if you have a company name with Net in the name :E

Avoid if at all possible.

If you need any further info, ask away!

OB

[ComeOnLetsFly!]

Yes, also heard this - can't see the Shell board being very happy, especially seeing another company filling up their 7X!

Unfortunately I think it could be another nail in the coffin for a business that was doing all so well a few years back - I remember visiting the airport when there were 20 a/c on the ramp, now when we visit there's only a handful - most of them being NJE.

[cambioso]

Was in there this morning. We thought about leaving the a/c overnight and then found it would cost £2,400 for parking alone...............................This on top of the £2,000 landing fee - obscene!
We went to B'bushe.
These guys had better get real, it's the same at Northolt (same company) awful "couldn't care less - I'd rather talk (loudly!) with my mates about my boyfriend" attitude.
They were once riding the wave with a monopoly (a licence to print money) but these days (and their customers) are far different. They decided to "cosy-up" to NetJets and to hell with everyone else, maybe they should read the NetJets thread here?
Their ramp is deserted for a reason - they had better wake up and realise why.

[His dudeness]

The Jet Centre are now doing their own fuel, no one else is permitted to fuel on the ramp. If any of you have a contract with Shell then this is now not available.

We were there on Octobre 9th and had the same info. However the fuel truck was Shell then and they accepted the Shell card. Had a chat with the manager, told him what I think about this and he said that we will still have the opportunity to choose from them (Avfuel) or Shell.

Will be there again in November, we will see....

[Opsbeatch]

Yep, they were still accepting the Shell card initially because their infrastructure wasn't up to it. You will be stung next time you go in so get lubed up and ready!

Chat with the manager? Are there any left? I thought they were all directors now...:E

OB

[sooty3694]

LC Jet Centre:

Security is run and managed by a rejected burger flipper.

Immigration, when not carried out by UK Brorder Agency, is conducted by staff who can't read.

Ramp staff are paid commission by the manufacturers of hi-viz vests, and Dick Turpin lives in the Jet Centre, so what do you expect?

Avoid the place at all costs!!

[cambioso]

I'm LOVIN' it Sooty!!

[merlinxx]

Well get your complaints to Darren G soonest

[No RYR for me]

We thought about leaving the a/c overnight and then found it would cost £2,400 for parking alone...... Why do you think people have been ferrying A/C out for overnights for years? :8

[cambioso]

I knew it was v expensive (have been going there for 15 years) and always dropped off and naffed off. But the Boss wanted to know just how expensive, and I made the mistake of asking!

[Opsbeatch]

Merlin - No stone has been left unturned...

OB

[BIZZYBOY]

Sounds like you need to get up or park up at Stansted! Very cheap fuel, loads of sensible priced parking and plenty of FBO's to choose from that will give you the ultimate of services with not a NJE in sight.

[Miles Magister]

Guys,

Not in the game myself any more but if it helps anyone, I recently went to a hangar refurb opening party at Cranfield and they seem to be offering very good parking rates if you need somewhere to escape to that is cheap and near london with a good FBO and hangar space.

Regards

MM

[HS-125]

Cambridge is a very good option too ... I hear they have some good landing / fuel deals.

[Mr_Dufrais]

I really do not understand the mentality of this place anymore....

It really is such a shame. The Jet Centre once upon a time was a special place for me to go to.... Now unfortunately, I cannot see the place being there this time next year.

There must be a constant money battle not to replace it with 2/3 main stands, and I can only think that the Jet Centre charge extortionate prices to prevent this from happening. What they do not seem to realise is… it’s this that is pushing more and more people away! :ugh: They find a new airport and get comfortable. “passengers like the convenience” they say? Jet Centre need to realise that it’s not always passengers who choose the airport! Crew’s, Operators and Brokers have a massive input too! And all 3 of them see first hand the enormous prices London City charge.

This new fuelling business is a total cry out for money, and an obvious one to. They will sell it as they have more control on a customer service level :rolleyes: ...But in reality, they must be struggling. By pushing out other operators other than NJE, surely only makes a bad situation worse. I don’t think the place can survive on just 2 NJE Bravo’s I saw parked on the apron peak time the other week. :D

[His dudeness]

From what I gathered from the short chat, they ralise now (kind-a-late) that there are other clients than NJE...I particularly dislike the huge signs there.

Its enough that NJE tries to take my job on a regurlarly basis.

The fuel thing is a nsaty one especially if they will play the monopoly game.

I`d rather tanker fuel in then, my aircraft allows me to do that.

In our case, the pax dictate the usage of LCY...they have business in the City, close to LCY.

[WHBM]

I have passed this regularly for some years, and also have noticed the progressive decline in usage by GA aircraft here, from what was once a substantial operation - which was when the LCY runway capacity was much more stretched than nowadays. The place seemed deserted all through the Olympics.

A good example is to look at the Google Maps overhead image of the airport, which is dated this year, 2012. The main terminal is fairly full, obviously taken at a busy operational time. Jet Centre has just one aircraft on remote parking, nothing in front of the Centre at all.

I wonder what their commercial arrangement is with the LCY owners, and whether they can be given the heave-ho in favour of someone else with a bit more commercial nouse, and benefit to the airport overall.

[redsnail]

I particularly dislike the huge signs there.
You aren't alone there... :oh:

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Did someone mention a 7X at Lucy? (post #2) :E ;) :ok:

Falcon 7X at London City Airport (LCY) - YouTube

[Opsbeatch]

I notice they didn't take any fuel...:ok:

OB

[belowradar]

Well if it is as bad as that please drop into North Weald EGSX which is basic but value for money

[dc9-32]

Is EGSX licenced and does it have customs/immigration facilities :confused:

[merlinxx]

You've all gone quiet, was a resolution obtained, or have you all slid off to Darren's old employer at EGSS ????

[Opsbeatch]

Merlin, to quote an old saying;

You can't argue with stupid people, they take you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

We are tankering if we go in at all, plenty of airports around London...even works out cheaper to fly to somewhere like Mr G's ex employers and heli in to Battersea.

It's great to know that business is so good that it can be turned away...:E

[sooty3694]

Yep, we are re assessing now. Three trips planned to London in Nov, Dec and Jan, and by avoiding LCY we can:

1. can save a shed load of money on landing and parking fees
2. can save ditto on fuel
3. can enjoy the pleasure of not having to endure security for pax and crew.
4. can have the pleasure of simple, fast and efficient immigration
5. can avoid rip off limo charges
6. can avoid cost related to re-training crew

We hate the place SO much, we don't even give the boss the choice of going there anymore.

We tell him that we can't get landing slots and take him to where it is 100% better, cheaper and more convenient for him.

[Red Four]

Southend can work well for City of London/ Docklands and East London - it even is open on Saturday PM and Sunday AM! - anyone tried it since the new Holiday Inn opened there?
Business Aviation | LSA - Operational Information | London Southend Airport (http://www.southendairport.com/airport-facilities/operational-information/business-amp-general-aviation/)

[PPE]

Sooty could you elaborate on No 3 and No 4!

[sooty3694]

yes, with pleasure. drop into biggin hill and experience both. if you want you can even have your pax driven straight onto the apron and right alongside the airplane! no fuss, no security and no bother.

[chevvron]

Fairoaks available depending on size of aircraft (up to and including CJ3).
Laid back Border Agency procedures,(just submit a GAR), no hi-vis vests in daylight, overnight parking £25 + VAT maximum.

[His dudeness]

no hi-vis vests in daylight

That alone would be reason enough...

[chevvron]

You can wear one in daylight if you wish, you won't get told off; it was just that with almost no apron lighting it was felt people on the ground stood a better chance of being seen at night if they wore high vis.

[PURPLE PITOT]

I've had red and green LED "nav" lights sewn into my w@nker bars. Seems to work ok!

[His dudeness]

That alone would be reason enough...

to go there! - just to clarify it.

it was just that with almost no apron lighting it was felt people on the ground stood a better chance of being seen at night if they wore high vis.

At least an explanation with some reason....wish the H&S morons would understand that. And 'funniest' part of all is that they spot me every time I walk in the dark across an apron without one. Last time in FAB I crossed the taxiway on the main apron they spotted me from the Tower ! (no movement whatsoever was taking place I shall add...not one APU was running etc.)

So actually it seems to be safer not to wear one.

[HS-125]

I've always believed that if your stupid enough to get run over by an aircraft then you shouldn't really be working around planes anyway ...!

[Mr_Dufrais]

Has there been any updates with regards to the fuel situation at London City??

[Opsbeatch]

Looks like the gamble hasn't paid off and people are paying with their jobs...but not the people that make the decisions of course!

Could be the death toll of the Jet Center as we know it, good luck guys.

OB

[deefer dog]

Honest opinion of London City:

Jet Centre Staff and Service: VERY GOOD

Handling and Landing Fees: A RIP OFF. Among the top 3 most expensive in Europe.

Immigration: A JOKE! (Pax passport details read by muppets - any discrepancies means a bus ride for pax to the REAL immigration staff who can't be bothered to be in attendance at the Jet Centre.

Fuel: ANOTHER RIP OFF. No choice and unbelievable price. Forget fuel carnets - they will work, but you will pay even MORE using them.

Security: THE WORST IN EUROPE AND RUN BY INCOMPETENT MUPPETS. (expect pax to be totally humiliated. normal private aviation procedures are replaced by those which apply to pax checking in for an airline flight. Liquids NOT permitted unless they are consigned to the aircraft hold (if the aircraft does not have a separate hold, liquids must be discarded). Crews expect to be humiliated twice as much as pax due to normal procedures adopted at this airport only.

ID Cards: COMPULSORY, but notably it does not matter who issues the ID card. Print your own and they will be accepted, but do not dare to turn up without one! (Passport and licence is NOT acceptable to these muppets because this, they claim is cotrary to EU law)

Hi Viz Jackets: They really are a lover of these, and failure to comply is likely to lead to VERY severe penalties. ( recently a CJ1 pilot was


AVOID LONDON CITY AT ALL COSTS AND WATCH FROM A DISTANCE AS THEY SINK INTO OBLIVION.

[Booglebox]

Print your own and they will be accepted

I've seen this before, it is totally stupid. The numbers on the (home-made) ID (for a private operation) were totally made up, yet the security people wrote them down studiously. :8
I have also seen a guy who flies for BA, use their crew ID to get to the ramp to access a private citation, because the desk staff demanded a "pilot ID" :confused::confused::confused:

Also, the whole hi-viz jacket thing really is awful :yuk:

One can only hope that if there is a big enough drop in business, sense will prevail and Jet Centre will take note and try to improve things. :(

[His dudeness]

Lets be fair and critize only things that are not beyond their control.

I think that the security & immigration guy in charge for LCY as a whole is a total ..... .

JetCentre cant change or only with a painfully slow process what happen in this respect.

BTW, yesterday immigration took place at the JetCentre. Never mid the fact the lady was puzzled with the 2 dots on the o in my german name (nah, an immigration officer in 2013 can´t be expected to know this shi.te...)

There also was at least one muslim checking bags and pax/crew. Now, he seemingly was a decent guy, but am I the only one noticing the irony in that ?

Charges...1100 quid for 10 minutes on the ground, no other services required...

Fuel - the biggest issue for me, cause it is a deliberate move to rip us off. Fueling with Shell and or BP did work and while still being a tad more expensive than most UK airports, it was a bargain compared to what they charge now.

Then their refusal to treat non-NJE guys as "real" customers... a disgrace.

As for the staff: agree with the dudes downstairs, but the upper floor leaves a lot to be desired since Terry Lee left IMO. But then they are understaffed...but hey, its just about the most expensive place on the Island, what can one expect then ?

Hi viz: be sure to wear the correct colour. Was told off once by a lady in a sari and HVV for wearing an orange one: this is for supervisors only. Imagine passengers mistaking me for one !!!

I ordered a set from ebay in yellow, green, purple, grey and blue. Preparation is EVERYTHING !!!

[ALTSEL]

LCY a shambles overall, the way they carry on is a insult to ones intelligence? almost as much as the farce that is Signature security at LTN .

Any crew here been subjected to this crazy set-up? we have lost clients or had them move departure airport to avoid this regime? as for inbound border control don,t even go there!

[Booglebox]

I ordered a set from ebay in yellow, green, purple, grey and blue. Preparation is EVERYTHING !!!

maybe get out your sewing machine and use them to create a new one that has 20% of each colour in it? :}

[chevvron]

Unless they actually publish what colour your hi-vis has to be, they've got no reason to 'pull' you. At Farnborough, the original intention was everyone wears puke yellow/green except marshallers who wear orange to distinguish them; seems logical; you see someone waving their arms not wearing orange you ignore him.

[SWBKCB]

I ordered a set from ebay in yellow, green, purple, grey and blue. Preparation is EVERYTHING !!!

Sorry for the thread drift, but Hi-Viz grey?? :eek:

[His dudeness]

Have a look:

Warnweste EN471 - Warnwesten - Kinderwarnwesten - Signalwesten - Funktionswesten - bedruckte Warnwesten (http://warnwesten24.com/warnwesten/warnwesten.html)

Grau = german for grey

As you can see they have also the ideal vest for nighttime = black and for foggy weather = white...

h d

[tommoutrie]

Have hi vis lining fitted to your uniform jacket. Simply turn it inside out and you are sorted. Thats lateral thinking right there my friends..

[deefer dog]

Who actually defines what a high viz jacket is? Is it not reasonable to claim that my uniform bars (mine are white) make my uniform jacket "high viz?"

And in any case, if they spot you not wearing a jacket surely it follows that you are plainly visible?

Anyway, this is thread drift and detracts from warning the unsuspecting that they should avoid the rip off culture of London ****ty, its shambolic immigration procedures, and the intimidating security process.

[On standby]

Shame they don't do a Hi viz in gay pride rainbow style!

If LCY can prove it is no longer viable, then the land could be reused for housing. It seems the management don't want any business. Could be a plan, just like Filton.

[His dudeness]

Thats lateral thinking right there my friends..

Do I have to be a thinker to do this job ? Nobody told me that before!!! :zzz:

[Tray Surfer]

Its strange isn't it...

As someone who had used LCY as a scheduled airline passenger to Europe and JFK, you expect things to be of a similar ilk for the whole operation. Yet, it appears the private end certainly is not as good.

I don't know too much about private aviation yet, but can see that those prices are way higher than industry standard...

As others have said, they will price them self out of the market if they continue down the path as described. Sure, charge that amount if you are providing THE best private services available in the UK or Europe, but when service is as described, then you are only going to head in one direction... And it is not up.

TS

[No RYR for me]

@Tray server. It has nothing to do with service but all with slots and location, location, location....

Are they still operating their own Falcon?

[Tray Surfer]

I appreciate those aspects are a major part of it... But, from reading the comments above, the lack of organisation, immigration, security and other things mentioned seem to compound the issues. If all of the above was smooth as silk, then the cost of slots and paying a premium for the location probably would not be so much of an issue. But, for the price, operators are getting a raw deal.

Well, that is just how it appears to me.

[ComeOnLetsFly!]

The Falcon 900 is no longer operated by LCY, that stopped 4 years ago.

I honestly think it's a huge shame that they have ended in this situation.

The general staff there I find are excellent, I've never had a problem - unfortunately I guess it's the managers there that are the general issue.

With regards to security,up until 2 years ago, the JC had a dedicated team who were brilliant - we never had an issue. When the rules changed they used the terminal staff who had been trained to screen the general population and not Mr Big Wig who owns his own aircraft.

Unfortunately it seems that this could have all been planned with LCY, keep pricing themselves out of the market until no-one wants to use the facility and then use the space for a couple of extra parking stands that bring in more revenue for the airport.

With the NJE lounge now gone (along with their dedicated MXX team) it seems this could happen sooner rather than later.

Good luck to the Ops / ramp / and reception staff!

[chevvron]

Dunno if they still run the Falcon GLCYA, but I remember it used to park at Farnborough some weekends in case it was needed saturday afternoon or sunday morning.

[His dudeness]

But, for the price, operators are getting a raw deal.

Well, that is just how it appears to me.

And you are right IMO.

[Gulf4uk]

update on G-LCYA

G-LCYA Deregistered 01/12/2012 to USA N552SD


Tony

[Booglebox]

G-LCYA replaced with M-CELT.

[hawker750]

Had an e-mail from the Jet centre today offering 50% off my parking bill until end April as long as I stayed for more that 4 days. Anyone know how much 5 days parking would cost there for a 13t Hawker because I am dying to work out how much i would save over £30/day at Biggin?

[deefer dog]

Got the same email so guess they are getting pretty desperate for business.

They will need to change a lot before they can expect custom from those operators who explain to their pax the drama, cost and inconvenience of using London ****ty.

The biggest fan of theirs must be Biggin Hill.

[McDoo]

You would think that at least they would provide decent IT for crew use. The single useless PC in the crew lounge is insufficient and painfully slow if it's working at all. It actually replaced the even worse one they had before and guess where that ended up?.....as the only PC available to crew at Northolt, run by guess who?
They don't seem prepared to invest even a few hundred quid on improving the poor facilities at both airfields. :ugh:

[His dudeness]

Screw the PC, I want a working coffee machine in the low lifes lounge.

The one in the Skygods area always works...

But what can one expect at their prices. Free water and or Soda as TAG provides at FAB are to much to ask as well. Or the snooze area at FAB, no way one could get sumthin like that at LCY...

[Gulf4uk]

M-CELT Is a very frequent user Of FAB

Tony

[Booglebox]

Indeed Tony. For a committed LCY-using pax, that should tell us something about the current state of affairs at LCY!

[chevvron]

Probably because he can't operate sat pm/sun am from City. Still at least it looks like TAG Farnborough are doing something right!

[ALFRED]

Received the same "good price for you my friend, only because you're my friend" letter.
Maybe we should fire back why they won't see us that much for the next months. :yuk:

As a former WX, I even feel like "security" is worse than for commercial ops !

[sooty3694]

Alfred, I did exactly that. Told them my thoughts and as expected heard nothing back. They will soon be extinct.

[private-jet]

Ladies and gents,

You all seem miffed/pleased with the Jet Centre at LCY. I guess people will always have different experiences the world over. I worked there for 4 years and loved it. When we sold it from the family operation under Dermot to the penny pinching pension funders it all went wrong. It's a real shame the team there want what's best but are faced with EBITDA over service and budget control that ignores downturn and recession.

[ComeOnLetsFly!]

Just a quick message to all that are leaving the JC today.

Good luck to all - I hope you all find jobs soon and all stay within the industry. You were all a great bunch to work with whenever we visited!

Stay positive!

[sooty3694]

why, what happens today?

[ALFRED]

Welcome back into business LCY Jet Center !! :D:D :D
Efficient, brand new, commited to Pax and Crew, to my expectations !

Lot of changes and eventually a dedicated corporate terminal as it should always have been there, very good job and congrats ! :ok:
Didn't have time to check a crew lounge but, so far, so good.

(Just waiting for the bill, now :} )

[Delta12]

Landed there recently, and I liked it. All new, not completely refurbished yet.

No more security screening if less then 10 tons.
Staff very friendly (they always were very friendly, they just hat to follow the (very stupid) rules).

Looking forward going there next time :ok:

[talkpedlar]

Just quoted almost £5,000 for 48 hours parking (Mustang C510)..

just as well that they don't have a monopoly.. :ugh:

TP

[No RYR for me]

just as well that they don't have a monopoly.. It has nothing to do with a monopoly but lack of parking space. Has been like that for years and will only get worse.. :rolleyes:

[His dudeness]

and will only get worse..

How so ? Are there plans to take away apron space from them ?

[No RYR for me]

As soon as the scheduled flights take off again I am sure they will... :ouch:

[LAS1997]

I went on Tuesday and met with Axel Ienna; I too was impressed with the new facility and most of all the removal of all the Netjets signs. The entrance is much better for the passengers and the immigration / screening also more efficient; I like too the new lounge, although there is still a Netjets rep on site and there are Netjets magazines on the rack. Let's hope that this refreshing approach to its customers continues and we may see some kind of reduction to the charges!;)

[binzer]

His dudeness

You are a complete a##se. So multi cultural Britain has a Muslim security guard, do you assume all Muslims are terrorists. Narrow minded bigot is what you have made yourself look.

[chevvron]

talkpedlar:
Fairoaks would have cost you £60 for 48 hours until midnight tonight; after that it's £64 for 48 hours both prices include VAT. Rate is actually per night so you could drop off at City at 7 am, position to Fairoaks for 8am landing, and then position back to City to pick up departing by 6pm, all for just the landing fee. Don't know what your MTOW is but the l/fee is (for instance) £57 incl VAT for MTOW 3501 to 4000 kg

[chevvron]

Had a Citation 525 in/out Fairoaks yesterday no problem.

[WHBM]

I assume from the above (it's not quite clear and neither is the LCY website) that the Jet Centre operation has passed (passed back ?) from Netjets to the airport themselves.

Maybe connected, but I've noticed a real upsurge in business jet traffic in and out in the past couple of weeks. This last weekend their ramp was pretty full, haven't seen that for a long time. Even during the Olympics there was hardly anything in there.

[HS-125]

NetJet's had/have nothing to do with the operation of the Jet Centre, they just paid for advertising.

The airport owns / operates the JC directly, not a third party.

[jetstream2013]

I think they was busy due to the football and boxing during the weekend, and other FBO`s must have been full, cos the price they charge ridiculous.
Let`s see by next week if the ramp is full.

[Yogibaboo]

I was there during Champions League final for the first time. STAFF EXTREMELY FRIENDLY!!!! Parking fees pretty high, but taking into account possible repositioning to Biggin Hill or Farnborouhgh and back, expenses would be barely the same. No screening below 10 tons very convenient. Very satisfied with service received. Once more: STAFF WAS EXTREMELY FRIENDLY AND HELPFUL!!!!