Test and Evaluation topic e.g. RAE,DERA and QinetiQ

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

As I am very interested in Test and evaluation within the defense and couldn't really seem to find a topic I decided to start one.

So if you have any information from the below PLEASE post here.

-Royal Aircraft Establishment.

ETPS
-A&AEE Boscombe down.

-NGTE

-Royal Aerospace Establishment.

-DRA.

-DERA.

-QinetiQ/[dstl].



-Any I have missed out.

Or any other information which involves test and evaluation for defense ( Raspberry ripple aircraft , Airbases e.g. Farnborough)

Of course any questions about the above It would be nice to post here as well.
Hope it's a fun topic for all!:ok:

[billynospares]

Of course A&AEE DRA DERA and QinetiQ are all one and the same place and having started working for my beloved A&AEE i have worked for them all through default :ugh:

[VX275]

T&E eh, lets add some more acronyms to the alphabet soup with AFEE, AATDC, JATE, JADTEU AWC, ATEC and even though it was mostly naval stuff there was some flight testing with the DMWD.

[lightningmate]

A&AEE DRA DERA and QinetiQ are all one and the same placePersonally, I would class them as Organisations, although probably stretching the point to consider the latter 3 as 'organised'!

A&AEE was, of course, located at Boscombe Down; however the DRA & DERA, during their existence, inhabited many sites around the UK. QQ still does, albeit rather less these days.

lm

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Maybe it would be better if I placed them in chronological order:hmm: as A&AEE no longer exists of course as it (I think) merged into or became DRA then DERA. Then in 2001 became QinetiQ (privatised).Same for the RAE went through DRA , DERA and the QinetiQ. :cool:

[BossEyed]

A&AEE no longer exists of course as it (I think) merged into or became DRA then DERA.

That's not precisely accurate. A&AEE never merged into or became part of DRA. :8

A&AEE (Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment)

became (briefly)

A&AEE (Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment)

became (briefly)

DGT&E (Directorate General Test & Evaluation)

became

DTEO (Defence Test & Evaluation Organisation)

became

DERA (Defence Evaluation & Research Agency) - joining DRA etc

became

QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL)

will become... :ooh:

[Pilotage]

RAE again?

P

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

RAE again?
Well I wish the RAE would be back but some how with cut backs I doubt it very much.
QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL)

will become... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif
Dont understand what you mean? You mean that DSTL is going to come under QinetiQ??? or the other way around as DSTL is gov owned:oh:
https://www.dstl.gov.uk/

[lightningmate]

To re-build the RAE you would need Scientists, Engineers and Leaders. QQ could offer Nest-Featherers, Project Managers, Accountants and possibly just a few of those who formerly worked at the RAE. Unfortunately, working within QQ has beaten the stuffing out of those former RAE folk.

Destruction of the RAE, A&AEE and several other specialist military organisations in the proven false hope of saving money has come home to roost, we cannot get anything right and we have precious little of the essential test facilities remaining.

All of this stupidity occurred in the early 1990s, readers of other topics concerning airworthiness will probably recognise that period as the time military airworthiness requirements were consigned to the past.

Enough to make you weep!

lm

[pianydd]

It was remarked by my colleagues, having driven through the main gate to be greeted by another logo (again), a career in signwriting could be a lucrative option...

[BossEyed]

QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL)

Dont understand what you mean? You mean that DSTL is going to come under QinetiQ??? or the other way around as DSTL is gov owned :oh:

I mean that when DERA ceased to exist in 2001, it split into two: QinetiQ and DSTL. Sorry: [dstl] :8

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Still we will have to hope DSTL stays gov owned as if that became privatised there would not be much left.:sad:

[billynospares]

You are so right lightningmate. I am ex A&AEE forced into QQ this as they say is not what I joined up for :(

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Out of interest what ranges did RAE/A&AEE etc use I know aberporth , shoeburyness and west freugh but was there any other ones???? I know P&EE used a lot but did the RAE and A&AEE use them??

[chevvron]

RAE operated the air range at Larkhill on Salisbury Plain, Aberporth is Cardigan Bay, West Freugh was Luce Bay; Shoeburyness was not operated by RAE although it was under the umbrella of MOD(PE) like RAE & A&AEE.
One acronym was you forgot was: RPE (Rocket Propulsion Establishment) Westcott, which became part of Royal Ordnance by '92; don't know what it's called now.
Another was RRE (Royal Radar Establishment) Pershore the flying side of which was absorbed into RAE Bedford in about '75.
And don't forget RAE is actually 2 acronyms; Royal Aircraft Establishment became Royal Aerospace Establishment before it became DRA(Aerospace).

[Pilotage]

... and was Royal Aircraft Factory until it was changed to deconflict with the newly formed Royal Air Force in 1918.

There was also NGTE, subsumed into RAE in the early 1980s I think.

P

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

There was also NGTE, subsumed into RAE in the early 1980s I think.
Yes it was with the Royal Aerospace Establishment;)

RPE (Rocket Propulsion Establishment) Westcott, which became part of Royal Ordnance by '92; don't know what it's called now.

Yes should of remembered Westcott since I have been there:O but I'm sure they moved a lot of the resources up to spadeadam (don't count me on that) for blue streak missile/rocket.And I think some of the Royal Ordnance comes under BAE.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

So far I know of the locations of these sites within the RAE/A&AEE
-Farnbrough
-Bedford Airbase/tunnels
-Malvern
-Pershore (Before it moved to bedford)
-Defford
-West Freugh
-Westcott
-Spadeadam
-Llanbedr
-Aberporth

-Boscombe down

Im I right I thinking these are correct and also are there any more???

[chevvron]

Larkhill as mentioned; there was also an offshoot of RAE at Cobham,

[billynospares]

Believe it or not in the distant past there was an out station of Boscombe Down in Libya

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Cobham????? I know that not to far away from there is a EQD which was run by the Ministry of Avation before it came MOD Aquila. Is this the same place as I'm sure there must of been a detachment there :confused:

billynospares I also seem to remember that there were trials in Singapore aswell.:8

EDIT: Mod Aquila is different place to what I previous expected it was.

[chevvron]

The Cobham one was off Fairmile; I saw a map of Cobham once with 'RAE' in small letters at the north east end of this road. (Something to do with 'Cobham Armour'?). I'm also remembering a MOD(PE) place at West Byfleet but I'm not sure if this was RAE; could have been something to do with MVEE (Military Vehicles Evaluation Establishment) at Longcross.

[VX275]

there was an out station of Boscombe Down in Libya

That would be Idris.
I've also taken part in A&AEE trials in Karup in Denmark, Yuma and El Centro in Arizona and Brunei. Never having been on Rotary icing work I've missed out on the long trips to Canada and Norway. As for ranges in the UK I've also used Studland Bay and Porthkerris on the Lizard.

[Pilotage]

NGTE Pyestock became RAE Pyestock.

Malvern wasn't either RAE or A&AEE that I recall. I think it was RSRE - Royal Signals and Radar Establishment?

P

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

That would be Idris.
I've also taken part in A&AEE trials in Karup in Denmark, Yuma and El Centro in Arizona and Brunei. Never having been on Rotary icing work I've missed out on the long trips to Canada and Norway. As for ranges in the UK I've also used Studland Bay and Porthkerris on the Lizard.


Also there were trials in Ottawa with the icing rig there.I also seem to remember as well trials over Greenland with XS235 comet.



The Cobham one was off Fairmile; I saw a map of Cobham once with 'RAE' in
small letters at the north east end of this road. (Something to do with 'Cobham
Armour'?). I'm also remembering a MOD(PE) place at West Byfleet but I'm not sure
if this was RAE; could have been something to do with MVEE (Military Vehicles
Evaluation Establishment) at Longcross.

MVEE is basically next(attached) to EQD and Im sure RAE members would of been there calibrating or testing aeronautical equipment to distrcution.
Also back to Cobham it might of been Wisely airfeild (after a little searching) as according to the net it was used for testing vickers aircraft and did have VOR and DME .

[billynospares]

There have been trials all over the world from Boscombe over the years and luckily I have been involved in quite a few. We used to regularly take the Comet to Greenland on the Aries polar trials flights. Thule airbase and the Top of the World club for cold beers and hot wings

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

It must of taken a few hours :p , How did they transport the equipment across e.g. Rotary trails.I persume C-130 or am I completely wrong????

[chevvron]

Wisley was a contractors airfield mostly used for production flight testing of civil aircraft (although the Valiant was tested there) after final assembly and first flight from nearby Brooklands and was nothing to do with RAE.
The VOR/DME was a later addition to provide a 4th stack for Heathrow although I dare say Vickers had their own 'private' letdown using it although it wasn't needed as they had a fantastically powerful radar.

[billynospares]

It was a few happy hours. The comet was pretty quick and comfortable though. Most rotary trials abroad the equipment goes out by ship. The herc trials carry their own kit

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

The comet is now at Bruntingthorpe airfield.I think they taxi it's around the airfield (or did) during there open day , it's such a long runway I think they can afford to do that.:)

I persume with the comet you were doing radar or nav trails with it could be wrong of course.;)

Chevvron well it was a wild guess, just assumed as the establishments used Vickers aircraft quite often.

[chevvron]

The Farnborough Comet XV814 was used for nav trials. I did one trip on it lasting 4.5 hours routing Farnborough - Alconbury - Ullapool - Alconbury - Ullapool - Alconbury - Farnborough. They were assessing several different types of nav systems including an Inertial Navigation System (INS) using laser gyrosopes.

Note: Why the hell does the system keep converting 'a' to '@' whenever I type 'laser'?

[Earlonics]

I started at RAE Bedford Royal Aircraft Establishment Bedford, fantastic 2 sites Airfield and tunnels. The Sign writter was always at the main gate Changing the Logo etc, Royal Aircraft Establishment was the best, I wonder how much all those changes cost the organisation um! Tax payer.:confused:

[bvcu]

Trials support from boscombe was Hastings, which were replaced by the Brittania until sold in the early eighties. Comet XS235 was Nav and radio division trials aircraft. i recall the aerial fit for what was i think the first aircraft in europe at the time with sat comms . The nav kit onboard was to such an accuracy that equipment for new types was installes alongside and flown for accuracy calibration. i recall the kit for tornado being fitted and flown onboard in late seventies. had a few nice trips on it around uk.

[VX275]

A&AEE also used their Beverley for Trials support. I have a photo of one of Boscombe's, Harvards, with its outer wings off and inside the Bev on its way to Idris to be used as the photo chase aircraft. A role that the remaining Harvard has to the present day!

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Farnborough - Alconbury - Ullapool - Alconbury - Ullapool - Alconbury - Farnborough.
Did you use the USAF base at Alconbury?? wasn't just for the Aquarius Club :hmm:

Earlonics they often change the names in government making things sound better when they don't at all. :(

I saw the Harvard at 2011 RIAT with its lovely QQ logo on :ugh:

[billynospares]

I have a few photos from over the years. No idea how to put them on here though

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

billynospares: I have a few photos from over the years. No idea how to put them on here though
It would be great to see some pictures I have some to scan in from various books. I think you press the button to the left of the quote button it has a picture of a mountain and sun.Also I think you will need to upload them to photobucket so you can get a a URL.PM me might be better because I don't know how strict on here they are about going Off-topic.

[chevvron]

Re 35; no we didn't land at Alconbury (or Ullapool!) that was the route we flew.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Oops misunderstood your last post:) Does anyone know much about any of the calibration & pressure trails at Farnborough.

[chevvron]

Do you mean Met Research Flight? They were only a lodger unit ie not part of the RAE Experimental Flying Department due to Farnborough being the closest MOD airfield to the Central Forecasting Office at Bracknell (now moved to Exeter), and although the aircrew 'mixed' they were regular Lyneham crews rather than specialist aircrew who had been through ETPS or similar.
Another 'lodger' was IAM (Institute of Aviation Medicine) Flight which normally had two pilots, both qualified as doctors and both qualified jet instructors. A third was added shortly before they moved to Boscombe; he was a qualified test pilot not a doctor and before he was allocated to IAM Flight he was an EFD pilot on fast jet types with whom I had the pleasure of a Hunter flight one day.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Nope not the MET flight I think there C-130 (snoopy) is now at Marshalls of Cambridge now.I have a picture showing a Meteor 'undergoing further calibration at Farnborough' it's from the Metoer book I have got.The Metoer is positioned on what I can see to be a trolley and the Metoer is rolled over onto it so it's undercarriage is facing upwards.There is also a missile on a cable system which looks almost like it's having RVDM trails.I will try and scan it in with caption.

edit:
Caption-Meteor T MK7 WA662 undergoing further calibration at Farnborough having been modified on the underside to replicate the U Mk16.Randomes have not been fitted but aerials are visible.

[chevvron]

Meteor U16s were target drones used at RAE Lanbedr for ops in the Cardigan Bay ranges, so I dare say they were calibrating the radio control system. Sea Vixens were used later (mid 70s) and they were modified at Farnborough on contract to Flight Refuelling Ltd. so presumably the Meteors were too. Both types retained a cockpit for a human pilot. The FR test pilot used to come up from Tarrant Rushton to test fly the Vixens after they were modded, and on one occasion, was a bit enthusiastic getting into the cockpit and managed to bang his head on the metal hoop around the windscreen all but knocking himself out.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Yep they might of been , however the Metoer itself wasn't in the targeting colour scheme (yellow/red) but as you say they probaley calibrating for targeting use.The sea vixen is a smart aircraft unlucky for that pilot who knocked himself out.Changing the conversation again does anyone know what they used Aberporth airfeild as during RAE use I know they used the campus as a site to host RAE members ect.Of course Llanbedr was used for the Jindivik.I will try and scan the pictures in as they are interesting.

[chevvron]

There is a radar unit at Aberporth (originally 'Western Radar') which is used to track aircraft operating in the Cardigan Bay range and to provide a service for aircraft wishing to transit the danger area. The airfield was used by the RAE Transport Flight Devons to transport boffins and other personnel, the route was Farnborough - Aberporth - Llanbedr - West Freugh and return two or three days a week.
Aberporth also saw the occasional civil visitor, and AEF Chipmunks used it frequently for Air Cadet flying. On at least one occasion, a Hunter from Valley did a touch and go there, the pilot being amazed how short the runway is (about 900m or 3,000ft). A couple of the staff from Farnborough ATC used to do Aberporth Tower in rotation when the permanent guy took leave.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Interesting , there was I think a small radar station at the top of Cardigan bay which RAE members used to dread going to as It was very isolated and cold.Also there was a report (or found) that the target barges washed up on the beach.
Now I think Aberporth airfield is used for UAVS.It is now know as west Wales airport.Aberporth Airfield (http://ukga.com/airfield/aberporth) ;)

[pianydd]

For those that are on a social networking site (beginning with 'f'), try searching within for Llanbedr Airfield Estates LLP. They have uploaded many photos, albeit of a recent supercar event they held there recently, also adding many archive photos of Meteor, Jindivik, Sea Vixen et al.

[chevvron]

The small radar unit 'at the top of Cardigan Bay' was presumably Llanbedr, which would launch a drone (Firefly/Meteor/Sea Vixen/Jindivik) then pass the ident to Aberporth Radar.
This airfield was considerably larger than Aberporth and I think the main runway was re-inforced as Jindiviks used to land on a skid, the undercarriage being jettisoned on takeoff.
Llanbedr also had a Precision Approach Radar and I believe every drone landing was 'talked down' using this.
I've often wondered if the occupants of the caravan site just south east of Llanbedr were aware of these unmanned aircraft activities; a set of Jindivik wheels would probably do quite a bit of damage to a caravan.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

It would do a lot of damage to a house never mind a caravan.:) The radar station (sorry for long link) Qinetiq radar site on the Llyn penninsular (http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?3851-Qinetiq-radar-site-on-the-Llyn-penninsular) , was at the north of the bay the link explains it in more detail.
Also I think Concorde may of even landed on the runway at Llanbedr


Some good pictures here:
Flickriver: Most interesting photos from Jindivik pool (http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1241063@N24/pool/interesting/)

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

#41 Here are those pictures might be on interest. Sorry about poor quality. From this book: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kelseyshop.co.uk%2Findex.php%3Froute%3D product%2Fproduct%26product_id%3D2463&ei=YY6KUOeeAsrF0QWtvICgAw&usg=AFQjCNEhKqCZd3Oq7iQFYgA32QdjOb8sog
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/M1.png
Caption-Meteor T MK7 WA662 undergoing further calibration at Farnborough having been modified on the underside to replicate the U Mk16.Randomes have not been fitted but aerials are visible.
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/M2.png
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/M3.png

[chevvron]

The T7 pic shows this was fitted with the extended nose cone of the U16s which if I remember correctly, were originally F8s. Just a surmise; maybe they modded it with U16 aerials to familiarise new pilots with the handling characteristics. Note the middle picture shows a Rushton towed target stowed overwing on the Meteor.
Not sure if the T7 in the third picture is the Llanbedr one or the Farnborough one; the Farnborough one crashed in '75. I don't think it's WA662.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Thanks again Chevvron , te 2nd picture down is actually the Marshall's of Cambridge trail meteor but in the picture it is at Farnborough.And I have a feeling that it is WA662 as it as a smallish randome at the rear which is present on other pictures of WA662.
Back to pressure trails I'm still very curious about it as the most famous one must be comet.However I'm more so interested in later tests this website has some decent pictures but its description is very scientific and not to digestible.THE EXPERIMENTAL APPROACH TO AIRCRAFT STRUCTURAL RESEARCH, THE FIFTEENTH WRIGHT BROTHERS LECTURE (http://home.btconnect.com/ukc802510745/pbw/pbw_lecture.htm) so if there is any info anyone knows about pressure trails.Also included this fantastic cross-section from the Eagle which I scanned in of course don't use the image anywhere else. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/CutawayCopyrightEagle.pnghttp://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=2DT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=eagle+annual%3B&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=35466521&biw=1920&bih=977&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=13019438720592363318&sa=X&ei=jreKULBf65DRBb28gMAK&ved=0CCcQ8wIwAA

[FTE Pruner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyaircraftfan
A&AEE no longer exists of course as it (I think) merged into or became DRA then DERA.
That's not precisely accurate. A&AEE never merged into or became part of DRA.

A&AEE (Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment)

became (briefly)

A&AEE (Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment)

became (briefly)

DGT&E (Directorate General Test & Evaluation)

became

DTEO (Defence Test & Evaluation Organisation)

became

DERA (Defence Evaluation & Research Agency) - joining DRA etc

became

QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL)

will become...

You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!
SO many changes! cannot work out if your joking or not :D

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/RAESTRUCTURE.png
Am I right in thinking that the building in the background was R.A.E structures?? and does anyone on here no much about it?;)

[chevvron]

The area you're looking at is where Qinetiq's Cody Site now stands.
Structures was originally meant for long term fatigue testing of a Concorde; there was one inside that tall square building. It was subjected to continual reversals of temperature via first being heated, then having chilled water circulated round it.
When this programme finally finished, the building was allocated as the National Space Centre but as far as I know was never used as such. It was demolished to make way for Cody Site in the late '90s/early noughties.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Thanks again I'm sure there is a picture in this thread http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/98520-rae-farnborough-steeped-history.html of Concorde inside the building.And I persume the buildings are to do with Concorde it the facility as well.

And also researched more about Chobham. Well as said in #21+ Longcross test track (military vehicles and engineering establishment Chertsey) I came across a photo of Varsity T1 (WL679) undergoing FLIR trails at MVEE

[TheChitterneFlyer]

To re-build the RAE you would need Scientists, Engineers and Leaders. QQ could
offer Nest-Featherers, Project Managers, Accountants and possibly just a few of
those who formerly worked at the RAE. Unfortunately, working within QQ has
beaten the stuffing out of those former RAE folk.Never a truer word was said! The (QinetiQ) announcement that redundancies were on the way; in order that this would make us a leaner, fitter, and more efficient machine, simply wasn't true. All it did was stir the good folk into searching for alternative aerospace employment i.e. Airbus Military; amongst others!

The Haddon-Cave report was a right and just document that highlighted the QinetiQ oversight of Nimrod airworthiness issues. Nonetheless, something had to be done to cull the methodology of the airworthiness chain; except that all we have subsequently done is increase "process"; which has, more or less, gone full circle i.e. the airworthiness chain has, once again, become complex and convoluted. Are we any safer? No. But we sure have built the "Mother of all Audit Trails" that will "nail" anyone who manages to crawl through the legislation minefield. Haddon-Cave wanted to simplify "process"... QinetiQ has totally missed the point! :ugh:

[Pilotage]

Do you mean Met Research Flight? They were only a lodger unit ie not part of the RAE Experimental Flying Department due to Farnborough being the closest MOD airfield to the Central Forecasting Office at Bracknell (now moved to Exeter), and although the aircrew 'mixed' they were regular Lyneham crews rather than specialist aircrew who had been through ETPS or similar.
Another 'lodger' was IAM (Institute of Aviation Medicine) Flight which normally had two pilots, both qualified as doctors and both qualified jet instructors. A third was added shortly before they moved to Boscombe; he was a qualified test pilot not a doctor and before he was allocated to IAM Flight he was an EFD pilot on fast jet types with whom I had the pleasure of a Hunter flight one day

MRF had, prior to 1981 when they became single type on WX208, numerous types, and a large team of civilian scientists and engineers, but I agree that they didn't use TPs.

Aerodynamics flight however, were RAE and did do quite a lot towards basic understanding of aircraft aerodynamics, as well as stability and control.

P

[BossEyed]

You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!

So I did! Some of the mind-bleach must have worked, then. ;)

The Haddon-Cave report was a right and just document that highlighted the QinetiQ oversight of Nimrod airworthiness issues.

i.e. highlighted that a contract for £7,500/year cannot enable oversight. :(

[TheChitterneFlyer]

i.e. highlighted that a contract for £7,500/year cannot enable oversight.
Notwithstanding that QinetiQ didn't have a clue about contractual obligations... I'm not surprised that someone from "airworthiness" signed-off a £7500 contract with such aplomb!

[billynospares]

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y501/oakley1971/1949_60263661954_7511_n1.jpg
my beautiful old lady at Thule airbase Greenland

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Great picture! I presume it's 814 as you mentioned that previously.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Er, XS235 for sure!

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Ummm....Yes as I've noticed underneath the comet has a flatter pod underneath than the 3 comets used by RAE. XS235 is now at bruningthorpe also.

We forgot about Cobbett hill radio station! I also presume that A&AEE used larkhill range???

[billynospares]

XS235 Canopus A&AEE only Comet

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Didn't A&AEE also have a Phantom :)

[DaveW]

XT597; it's currently still at Boscombe.

http://www.aviation-picture-hangar.co.uk/XT597_FG1_aaee.jpg

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Here's a slightly different view of Canopus...
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/cortonflyer/Comet.jpg

[chevvron]

Easy to distinguish '814; it had a 'Nimrod' style dorsal fillet at the base of the fin.

[billynospares]

And 814 was a different colour .

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/comet3.png
Comet 144 when BLEU had it was still in BOAC livery. 814 later adopted the raspberry ripple scheme but a good pic of all 3 of RAE comets
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/stirlingeffort/Raspberry%20Ripple/CometXV814.jpg
http://http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/stirlingeffort/Raspberry%20Ripple/CometXV814.jpg

[chevvron]

'814 lost that belly pack later. The other two Comets were both Bedford based, but in 1974, Farnborough had 3 Comets for a short time; I remember because they all arrived one after the other when the runway was reopened after re-surfacing in July/August of that year. One of them, like 814, was ex DanAir.

[green granite]

There were also WE177 high explosive safety trials done at the impact wall on AWRE Orfordness, and we also used the rocket track at RAE Pendine Sands for small diameter high speed parachute trials.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Wasn't Pendine Sands also P&EE as well? And does anyone remember any info on the site at West Drayton ?


And there was a small RAE naval contingent at Chobham (longcross) working on naval engineering should think testing engines in conjunction with Pyestock.

[Mechta]

I started at RAE Farnborough in 1981, and moved over to Pyestock in 1983 at the start of the third year of my apprenticeship, Pyestock having just become RAE rather than NGTE.

One of the departments in which I did a three month stint was Chemical and Petroleum Testing. This would involve running engines on any fluid used by the MOD (and I mean any) to determine its flammability and lubricating properties.

This department is the one which had previously been at Cobham, (Petroleum Chemistry and Technology Division, Royal Aircraft Establishment, Cobham, Surrey (formerly the Admiralty Oil Laboratory).

Another department was known as 'Diesels', This, I believe is the one which moved from West Drayton, where it had been the Admiralty Engineering Laboratory. We ran endurance testing on Paxman Valenta or 'SSK' diesel engines for submarine generating sets, and the regular stripping down of these 2000 hp,16 cylinder, 210 litre engines was a real sod. I remember trying to push the piston and conrod out with some crummy double pivoted tool which didn't want to stay straight. Other work in this department included testing outboard motors for the Royal Marines 'rigid raider' boats and testing a Ford 1.6 diesel engine driven fire pump (that was great fun, and needless to say, got everyone very wet).

After Pyestock I moved back to Farnbough as a trainee UAV pilot (we called then UMAs (UnManned Aircraft) at the time. I had several trips to Pendine Sands to operate them, although they had been flown at Greenham Common, Larkhill and Suffield in Alberta before I joined that Dept.

A promotion led to a change of Dept and working on night vision goggles and Forward looking Infra Red (FLIR). We did trials in Cyprus ("Mechta, we're doing going to do a trial in Cyprus, how long do you want to go for?" "Cyprus? Permanently, please...")

Later trials took us up to West Freugh ('Wet Through') where we tested the TIALD pod on the Buccaneer in preparation for the first Gulf War. Working at West Freugh involved regular trips in the Navaho Chieftain ferry aircraft, with stops at Boscombe Down, Aberporth, Llanbedr and Warton. The latter had the EAP and a Lightning chase plane on the apron at the time. On one trip into Llanbedr, we had to loiter whilst a Jindivik was recovered, giving us a grandstand view.

I baled out of Farnborough before it became DERA, and from my contact with friends who stayed on, I did the right thing, as many got very depressed watching the decline of the place whilst waiting for redundancy.

I did get a brief spell back working for QinetiQ on the Zephyr solar powered UAV, which was very interesting, working with a very enthusiastic and dedicated team.

With regard to names, many of the older people with whom I worked, had worked with people who would only refer to it as 'The Balloon Factory'.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

I started at RAE Farnborough in 1981, and moved over to Pyestock in 1983 at the start of the third year of my apprenticeship, Pyestock having just become RAE rather than NGTE.

One of the departments in which I did a three month stint was Chemical and Petroleum Testing. This would involve running engines on any fluid used by the MOD (and I mean any) to determine its flammability and lubricating properties.

This department is the one which had previously been at Cobham, (Petroleum Chemistry and Technology Division, Royal Aircraft Establishment, Cobham, Surrey (formerly the Admiralty Oil Laboratory).

Another department was known as 'Diesels', This, I believe is the one which moved from West Drayton, where it had been the Admiralty Engineering Laboratory. We ran endurance testing on Paxman Valenta or 'SSK' diesel engines for submarine generating sets, and the regular stripping down of these 2000 hp,16 cylinder, 210 litre engines was a real sod. I remember trying to push the piston and conrod out with some crummy double pivoted tool which didn't want to stay straight. Other work in this department included testing outboard motors for the Royal Marines 'rigid raider' boats and testing a Ford 1.6 diesel engine driven fire pump (that was great fun, and needless to say, got everyone very wet).

After Pyestock I moved back to Farnbough as a trainee UAV pilot (we called then UMAs (UnManned Aircraft) at the time. I had several trips to Pendine Sands to operate them, although they had been flown at Greenham Common, Larkhill and Suffield in Alberta before I joined that Dept.

A promotion led to a change of Dept and working on night vision goggles and Forward looking Infra Red (FLIR). We did trials in Cyprus ("Mechta, we're doing going to do a trial in Cyprus, how long do you want to go for?" "Cyprus? Permanently, please...")

Later trials took us up to West Freugh ('Wet Through') where we tested the TIALD pod on the Buccaneer in preparation for the first Gulf War. Working at West Freugh involved regular trips in the Navaho Chieftain ferry aircraft, with stops at Boscombe Down, Aberporth, Llanbedr and Warton. The latter had the EAP and a Lightning chase plane on the apron at the time. On one trip into Llanbedr, we had to loiter whilst a Jindivik was recovered, giving us a grandstand view.

I baled out of Farnborough before it became DERA, and from my contact with friends who stayed on, I did the right thing, as many got very depressed watching the decline of the place whilst waiting for redundancy.

I did get a brief spell back working for QinetiQ on the Zephyr solar powered UAV, which was very interesting, working with a very enthusiastic and dedicated team.

With regard to names, many of the older people with whom I worked, had worked with people who would only refer to it as 'The Balloon Factory'.


This was really interesting to read , thanks for posting it certainly gone around the establishment http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif
When at Chobham did you work on anything else out of interest ? , shame its all going to be bulldozed over to make way for homes.:*

[chevvron]

He said Cobham not Chobham. Chobham was the MVEE site at Longcross which is now to be (possibly) re developed; Cobham is some 6 or so miles further east.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

yes sorry , cobham . Getting confused :ugh:

Would be intressting to know where abouts in 'Cobham' as the airfiled is Vickers but the establishment site is where? I seem to recall naval engineering was in 'Cobham' :)

[Mechta]

It looks as if the Cobham site evolved from Fairmile Marine during the war according to this:

Noel Macklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Macklin)

with the oil testing laboratory moving there in 1968 from this:

Emerald | Industrial Lubrication and Tribology | AOL 74: Admiralty Oil Laboratory Comes of Age (http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=1688894)

I never visited the Cobham site, but did drive past it on a few occasions.

Looking back, I was very fortunate with the variety of departments in which I worked. The move to Pyestock was just the result of lucky timing, whilst the move to UAVs was the result of constant badgering of all and sundry by me. The move to night vision was down to a fellow model flier in the establishment club tipping me off about an as yet un-advertised position being created in a department which did lots of trials work.

Even so, compared to Mechta Senior's variety of work, starting as a Flight Test Observer in Sunderlands to see how hard they could land (alight?) one (until they broke it!), flying in the Comet after they started crashing and before they knew why, a trip to Sudan in an Ashton to test air conditioning, and a spell on HMS Eagle doing noise testing, mine looked a bit tame.

It was a great place to work, and for many of us it was as the song says, "you don't know what you've got till it's gone".

[Hobo]

When at Chobham did you work on anything else out of interest ? , shame its all going to be bulldozed over to make way for homes.

Not necessarily, there's a petition to stop DERA being taken out of the Green belt and being developed, here (http://petitions.runnymede.gov.uk/savethegreenbelt/). Please sign up and spread the word - doesn't matter if you no longer work there or even live in the area.


.

[bri21]

Bankrupt, probably.

[Snakecharmer]

Re Post 50

Meteor T7 in 3rd pic is WA662. Formation callsign Vintage Nugget. Air Clues did short piece at the time - combined age of the 4 aeroplanes was 106 years (doesn't seem much these days!); combined age of the 5 pilots was 272 years!

[chevvron]

Re Post 50

Meteor T7 in 3rd pic is WA662. Formation callsign Vintage Nugget. Air Clues did short piece at the time - combined age of the 4 aeroplanes was 106 years (doesn't seem much these days!); combined age of the 5 pilots was 272 years!

Any idea when that picture was taken? If '662 was the Farnborough T7, that was written off in mid '75. If it was Llanbedr's aircraft, the Llanbedr callsign changed from Nugget to TeeBird when the operation was contractorised which was about '91.
By the way, the first pic was not taken at Farnborough; that type of hangar door was not used on any hangar I remember, so I would think it was Cambridge.