Ground exams and flight test in different countries possible?

[Rhino25782]

Hi there,

yet another question regarding my plan to do ground school in the UK and flight training (for a CAA PPL) in the US.

I have contacted a UK flight school about this and they are writing the following (I am allowing myself a direct quote here):

"One other small thing to bear in mind is that we believe you have to take your flight test in the same country as you take your ground exams."

This is news to me. Can anybody confirm this or state with some certainty that this is not (even not under new EASA rules maybe?) the case?

Thanks

Patrick

[BackPacker]

In general it's true. However the JAA flight schools in the US operate under the oversight of the UK CAA (in addition to the FAA), so the ground exams are the same.

So you can do the UK CAA PPL ground exams in the UK, make sure all the paperwork is In Ordnung, and bring the paperwork to the US. But this only works for the UK CAA exams, not for the exams of any other JAA/EASA member state.

[Rhino25782]

Great, thanks Backpacker for clarifying this.

That's what I was thinking (and the reason why I want to do the ground exams in UK in the first place, rather than just going to my local school around the corner...).

Cheers

[BackPacker]

Rhino, I now see your location is in Germany.

The UK CAA ground exams are typically included in the package deal with the US school. So you don't have to do them in the UK before you go; you can do them just as easily once you're at the US school. And as the exams take 60-90 minutes each only, there will be plenty of time in between lessons to do them. When I did my PPL at OFT this was exactly what I did: Use downtime in between the flying lessons (due to scheduling or weather) to do the exams.

That might save you one or more trips to the UK.

What is of vital importance, of course, is that you studied all the theory beforehand, to the point where you can consistently do all test exams on the web with passing scores. Reaching that level will take far more time than doing the exams themselves, and is definitely something you should do beforehand.

[Rhino25782]

Hi Backpacker,

That's an interesting perspective.

My reasoning was this: I signed up for an intensive course (4 1/2 weeks, including some holidays around New Year) in January. As I have all the books already (Pratt), I started studying and am now considering if it is wiser to

a) get some exams out of the way early (i.e.: one trip to UK for Air Law, Human Factors and maybe some other topic) as long as the knowledge is still "fresh" in my forgetful mind.
b) study all exams and keep myself up-to-date with multi-choice exercises (PPL Confuser, online question boards etc) for three months...

Not quite convinced yet of either path. ;)

The added advantage of a trip to the UK (mind you, 24 EUR return Niederrhein - Stansted on RyanAir! ;-) ) is that I could have an EASA UK Medical before making the overseas trip. Just in case.

Cheers
Patrick

[BackPacker]

Good point on the medical.

If you go to a German AME and you say you specifically want an EASA medical, not the stock standard German "JAR-FCL compliant" (but not quite...) medical, in theory that should be acceptable to the UK CAA. But don't take my word for that, as I have never tried that out. You might want to clear that with the CAA first.

Or, like you said, get a medical at a UK AME, as that will be acceptable to the CAA.

[wb9999]

"All EASA licences issued to an individual must be from the same EASA Member State, which must be the State that holds the medical records for that individual" - to quote the CAA website. So a UK medical is easier than obtaining a German medical and transferring the records to the UK CAA.

[Rhino25782]

The US flight school said that since EASA has taken over, the German medical cannot be confirmed by the CAA anymore, like it was possible in JAA times.

Might indeed be worthwhile double-checking this with the CAA..

[BackPacker]

Okay, but that statement might have a different cause. Under EASA, all your paperwork (licenses, medical etc) all needs to be administered by one single CAA. I don't know what criteria are used to determine which CAA you are going to have to use, but in your case it will be either the UK CAA or the German BFA (I think it's called).

If your license is going to be administered by the UK CAA, then the AME you're using (UK or German) needs to submit the paperwork (possibly on the appropriate forms, or using the appropriate website, or whatever) directly to the UK CAA. Because the UK CAA can, under EASA rules, no longer validate a medical that is administered by the BFA, as it should not be administered there in the first place.

At least, that's what I think I read somewhere. (With a UK PPL, a Dutch medical and a Dutch GPL I'm going to have to do some sorting out on this front in the near future too...)

So you need to talk to your German AME and explain that he needs to communicate directly with the UK CAA regarding your medical test results, and not with the BFA. Whether that's going to work flawlessly at this stage of implementation of EASA rules is going to be a different matter...:(

[172driver]

The added advantage of a trip to the UK (mind you, 24 EUR return Niederrhein - Stansted on RyanAir! ;-) ) is that I could have an EASA UK Medical before making the overseas trip. Just in case.

If that's what you end up doing, you can combine the trip with a medical by visiting Peter Orton AME who is based at STN (Google him). He also does FAA medicals, if you need that one also (I think you will if training in the US, regardless of the license you are ultimately training for, but not 100% sure about that).

[Rhino25782]

Great, thanks! I've been in touch with Andrewsfield and they referred me to the same guy...

And yes: I also need an FAA medical so that will save me another bit of time that I can use better for flying when getting there!

[Rhino25782]

Here's some very current information relating to this thread:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/List%20of%20EU%20States%20med%20cert%20acceptbility.pdf

[BEagle]

Don't forget this new piece of €urocracy:

FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences

(a) Responsibilities of the applicant

(1) Applicants shall take the entire set of examinations for a specific licence or rating under the responsibility of one Member State.

(2) Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard.

(3) The recommendation by an ATO shall be valid for 12 months. If the applicant has failed to attempt at least one theoretical knowledge examination paper within this period of validity, the need for further training shall be determined by the ATO, based on the needs of the applicant.

Which means that you can't simply turn up and ask to take a Part-FCL PPL exam these days, the ATO has to sign to the effect that you have completed a training course.....:\

[BillieBob]

However the JAA [sic] flight schools in the US operate under the oversight of the UK CAAFlight schools that have their principle place of business in the US (or any non-EU state) are now regulated directly by EASA. Oversight is contracted out to member states and the UK, for the time being, is providing oversight of most US-based schools. The word coming out of Cologne, however, is that EASA is less than happy with the resources that the UK has available to fulfil the contract and may well look to change contractor in the future. Schools that have their main place of business in the UK but conduct partial training outside the EU (e.g. OAA, CTC) remain the responsibility of the UK CAA