SAAF pilot application and all other jobs

[PPRuNeUser0179]

Hello guys

I wanted to know about helicopter job applications at the SAAF and,well,most helicopter jobs.
My math marks this year have been very average,about 50% and I have selected to do mathematical literacy and in that being,I will not be able to take physical science.I have spoken to my instuctor numerous times about this and he said that there is no reason to worry,but I will have to work harder at flight school due to the lack of knowledge of physical science and he said that he knows of someone who did not take maths and science and he has his ATPL (he is the CFI).But I wanted to hear some other opinions about the topic and see what other people have to say about it.
I also wanted to know,if i joined the SAAF (already with a CPL),would they accept me?The requirements for a scholorship involve having a level 4 for maths and science.But like I said,what would happen if I applied to them already with a CPL in my hand...Would they think of accepting me?
And also,will not having maths and science on my matric certificate affect future job applications?IE:in 15 years time and overseas?
Am I just worrying too much and working myself up or not?
If there were to be a "problem",and I did my CPL fixed wing for a few years,would the same problem arise with other business's?

Sorry to jump right into it,but it has been on my mind the past few weeks.I Appreciate any replys.
Thanks alot

[Hawkeye0001]

I don't know what exactly the SAAF requires, but I can tell you that much: since I left school no one ever cared to see my high school certificate ever. To grasp all of the concepts in aviation basic physics and basic maths is enough, too.
For your particular case I'd probably keep the science course, it can't hurt to have a broader knowledge in both, maths and science. But in the end, what it really comes down to, is good mental arithmetics, trigonometry and an understanding of basic equations that you might come across - this is nothing but practice. And of course basic physics.
Pilots just don't tell anyone that their study courses are not rocket science but could be accomplished by a 7th-grader :oh: :hmm:
What's important is that you try to strive for the best you can possibly achieve with the greatest effort you can put in - these core-values are more important in this industry than any high school diploma.

[boyracer]

Hi Daniele

Post your request on the web forum Avcom.co.za you will get lots of good advise there. Basically the SAAF will not entertain any application without the prescribed maths and science, even with a comm. As for the major airlines they too will require decent maths and science symbols. My personal advise is to get extra help with maths and science until you are able to reach the required standard. Although one does not reallyneed any thing more than basic maths and science to fly, the airlines and airforces of the world use these as subjects to profile candidates as do many of the university gained professions.
Basically there are no short cuts. Get the help you need wrt maths and science you would be surprised what a good teacher can do to help. Most of the people who do badly in maths have poor teaching. Maths is not difficult if you understand the basics.

[PPRuNeUser0179]

Thanks hawk and boyracer

I'll put this up on av.com asap.
You are right about the fact that there are no shortcuts in life.But I thought that if you approach a business with even a ATPL,they would accept you without the required maths and science levels for scholarship.But i guess I am wrong.
Anyways,thanks again for your answer's.

[i-Robot]

Firstly, SAA, and many other airlines, require matric level maths.

Secondly, don't expect to get any form of sponsorship/scholarship etc., from any airline, or air force without good grades in maths (not that bull**** maths literacy)

Sorry, but these are the hard facts. There are more deserving maths and science students out there. The question is..."What do you have that makes you so special?"

[B200Drvr]

I failed matric maths, and did biology instead of science. I have an ATPL and fly a corporate jet for a living. Other than airline cadet schemes and air-forces, no one gives a continental what you did at school. I have never been asked for my matric results by any aviation establishment. That being said, don't use that as an excuse not to get the best education you can.

[PPRuNeUser0179]

I-robot

Thanks for your reply.I totally understand what you are saying and I agree with you.

B200DrVr

I thought that your progress at flight school would be more important than your matric certificate.Unless,of course,you are applying for a cadet scheme or the airforce.

I have just gone to ammend my subject choices for next year and have change from Maths literacy to Maths core and have selected Physical Sciences.I will put in tremendous effort to obtain good grades from the subjects I have chosen.

Thanks again to everyone.

[i-Robot]

Well done.

I apologise for belabouring the point, but I don't see medical students expecting to gain a medical degree by just pitching up for their residency.

I believe that the government has committed a great injustice to this generation by presenting the illusion of mathematical competence in the guise of "maths literacy".

The modern advanced aircraft is being designed requiring an aptitude and depth of understanding which can only be attained by strengthening abstract and logical thinking. This will only be achieved by grasping mathematical concepts at a pedagogical stage of education, i.e., high school.

[B200Drvr]

Whilst I agree that doing maths core is better than doing maths literacy, dont let that influence your career choice. My school maths at matric level (which I still failed) did nothing to improve my ability to fly the G550, one of the most advanced non military aircraft in the sky!!

"but I don't see medical students expecting to gain a medical degree by just pitching up for their residency."

Is a bit of a daft statement, considering wannabe airline pilots don't pitch up for work expecting command on their first day

You can learn and be taught all you need to know about flying without a matric maths and science exemption!!

[PPRuNeUser0179]

No problem I-robot.
I understand that you were just being up front about it.
But B200Drvr did make a point that I also thought was correct and that being,your matric certificate is not as "important" as your progress at flight school.I mean,you dont become a pilot by passing matric,you become a pilot by going to a designated flight school and doing the appropriate courses for the specific type of licence you wish to pursue.
That being,your matric results can also very well determine if you meet the requirements for a sponsorship scheme.

But like I said in my previous reply:I will put in tremendous effort to obtain good,if not great results,in order to have that extra bit of recognition.

B200Drvr
I am not surprised that it did nothing to improve your ability.I believe that these are the main factors that determine your path in an excellent aviation career, and which I am sure others would agree:
1.)Attitude
2.)Interest
3.)Willingness
4.)Responsibility

Am I not right in saying so??

[i-Robot]

The two most widely used pilot aptitude tests in the USAF are the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test and the Basic Attributes Test. The AFOQT is a 16- test instrument which measures general cognitive ability, verbal, mathematical, spatial, aviation knowledge, and perceptual speed. The AFOQT has been in use since 1957 with new forms developed about every seven years. The AFOQT Pilot composite consists of eight tests that measure amongst other things, the ability to read and interpret scales and tables, and spatial ability. This ability or technique, can only be mastered with a strong grasp of both, school-level, mathematics (not bull**** math literacy) and science!



So, when people like B200Drvr attempt to dumb down the core need to acquire a mathematical mindset in the aviation world, it saddens me (however, I am not surprised by these new attitudes). We find ourselves in a country where there's a generation who accepts mediocrity and acceptance of minimum standards, and this is regarded as the norm.

It is now "cool" to admit ignorance in the fundamental sciences (and strangely, be proud of it)...

[B200Drvr]

I-Robot, I am not trying to dumb anything down! I am also not from the new generation, I have worked very hard to get to where I am, I have had two successful careers, one in the gaming industry which took me all over the world and the second as a pilot, which as it goes, has also taken me all over the world!! without matric maths!!!

I have flown Harvard's to G550's over 20 years without matric maths!!!

Stop trying to make out that school maths and science is the be all of being a pilot. The truth is, aviation has progressed since 1954, and the US standard of education is very poor to say the least. That is not a good benchmark!! I went to high school in the 80's, nothing they taught me then could have or would have helped me with the planeview cockpit in a Gulfstream, as you have so stupidly suggested. By the time Daniele gets to command in the latest technology, He will have been out of school for probably over a decade or so.

What I am saying, if you read my post properly is that he should get the very best education he can, but he is not to think that if he does not get maths and science at higher grade at high school, that he cannot realize his dream of being a successful pilot!! Some of you make out that this career is flipin rocket science!!!! Its flying, its straight forward. You put in the work, study hard, listen, learn and practice, you will get there.
Its how I did it, and my aeroplane never fell out the sky because of the lack of high school maths!!

As for finding yourself in a country where mediocrity and minimum standards are acceptable, don't look at me, I left South Africa to pursue my career well over a decade ago, look at yourself!!!

[cavortingcheetah]

You don't need maths or science to be a pilot and you never did. You might however have to satisfy some particular criteria in order to become a USAF pilot. The skills required of a single crew fighter pilot are very far removed from those necessary to function in a multi crew cockpit, not necessarily exclusive, but different.
What you need is hard work and that will cover your backside for any mathematical deficiency or scientific incomprehensibility which you might have.
I grant you that the exams are easier if you can grasp sine/cosine theory and if you can visualise wave formations in the air, but effort and determination are great substitutes for obscure laboratory abilities.
Do get the best education you can but frankly, on the long nights across the Pacific, an ability to sing a decent song or talk the talk about history is of more use than a tangential prognosis as to the relevance of hydrogen gas in contrails divided by two.

[Trossie]

daniele,

You must have figured by now the 'pro- and anti-' school qualifications brigades!

There will be jobs that you can do without school maths and then there are those that will require it. If you have a good school maths qualification it allows you to be able to apply for ALL of them.

Do the best you can, and get a good teacher. (Bad teachers are often, but by no means always, the problem!)

Good luck!

[i-Robot]

It's not about whether you need maths and science to be a pilot or not, argument (which you in fact do, otherwise you will always be behind the advanced aircraft, but that's a whole different debate I don't have time to get into right now); it's about gaining a true perspective on realty, nature, the world and the universe.

It seems that some people are quite satisfied with the lies being fed to them in terms of religious indoctrination. The alternative to science is religion. Religious views are simple, heuristic, cognitive short-cut thinking, and is basically easier for the untrained mind to understand. While science or mathematical models of the world, on the other hand, is far too complex to grasp, and thereby written off as "unnecessary". Religious indoctrination is furthermore, so far off from reality, it's quite worrying. I'm quite flabbergasted to see such infantile systems in the 21st century in the first place. Nevertheless, this seems to be the present route of ignorance selected by many in our country, from politicians etc. (and all simply based on not wanting to understand the scientific method from a young age). The result is, today we see labour court judges accepting a "sick" note from a traditional healer, as valid. :ugh:

The day will come, when pilots similarly quite happily turn off the weather radar (which was designed by a math/science/engineering graduate, who is now speaking a completely different language to them) in a severe storm because there is a warped belief that his/her supernatural entity/ancestor will miraculously move said cumulonimbus granitis out of the way....

:ugh:

[cavortingcheetah]

It's probably not correct to say that religious views are cognitive and heuristic since both those terms relate more to computer science than they do to existential thought. It is probably correct to say that pilots these days need to have the patience of saints to put up with the abuse they suffer from passengers and the disrespect they endure from management.
As for God, faith and weather radar, generally speaking in Africa, the latter is of no use whereas faith in the former may be exercised by avoiding those clouds where the flashes of his lightening wrath are the greatest.
Bye the bye, the more advanced the aircraft the less the intelligence or ability the manufacturer expects from the pilot. Airbus was created to manufacture automatic aircraft so sophisticated that pilot input was over ruled by computers. Boeing still make aircraft which require a thought input from a human, Airbus is its own supernatural entity.

[tumelo]

Gooday everyone

I am currently in grade 12 doing physical science and changed maths to mathematical literacy due to my marks being average.I have been doing pure/core maths since grade 10 and only changed it this year.I would like assistance if I would still be able to persue my pilot dreams or maybe there are certain procedures I should follow 1st inorder to be a pilot