View Full Version : Federal Government supports Emirates/Qantas deal

1a sound asleep
8th Oct 2012, 12:51
In a submission to the competition regulator assessing the Qantas-Emirates tie-up, the Department of Infrastructure and Transport said it expected the partnership to enhance consumer choice, deepen competition and broaden Qantas's international network at minimal cost.

"Apart from the short-term benefits the alliance will provide for consumers; the Department considers the alliance also is likely to deliver long term, sustainable competition to our international aviation markets," the Department's submission said.

"On balance, the Department sees the proposed alliance as a positive and as being consistent with the Australian government's aviation policy settings."

Read more: Govt backs Qantas-Emirates tie-up | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/govt-backs-qantas-emirates-tie-up/story-e6frfkur-1226490903401#ixzz28iAdR5k2)

8th Oct 2012, 12:58
Why would a Government buy into this. I thought Qantas were a private company. I take it the submission was made with tax payers money?

1a sound asleep
8th Oct 2012, 13:16
Why would a Government buy into this

Free limo for the ride to the airport and continuance of their golden perks. Its all a done deal, just waiting for the mandatory motions to pass.

And now they can have a shower on the way to AKL

8th Oct 2012, 15:53
I am quite interested to see how QF will fill all those seats to SIN.

PER will continue to have 2 daily A330s which do not connect to Europe - except FRA, HEL and LHR with BA

ADL will continue to have 3 weekly A330s, connecting to FRA, HEL and LHR with BA (FRA will go after Oct 2013, so what feed will QF have ex SIN?)

SYD-SIN-FRA will continue to operate till Oct 2013 despite it being supposedly heavily loss making

New SYD-SIN A330 departing SYD mid morning arriving SIN after lunch. Perhaps it can connect to Jetstar Asia's services, or China Eastern to Shanghai or CX to HKG (but you could fly SYD-PVG/HKG direct can't you)

BNE-SIN 744 turnaround continues, connecting to FRA, HEL and LHR with BA if you want a 4 hour wait in SIN. Doesn't really connect to Asia

New MEL-SIN 744 turnaround, also connecting to FRA, HEL and LHR if you want a 4 hour wait in SIN. Doesn't really connect to Asia

That's a shocking amount of capacity for flights basically connecting to nowhere ex SIN. The MEL flight arrives a bit earlier, at 1900 or so, but still connects to no where - maybe MH to KUL and 3K to Phuket. Enough feed for a 744? I'm not sure.

Perhaps QF wants to demonstrate to the ACCC now that they're massively increasing capacity, and once the deal is approved they cut all flights to SIN to one daily A330 from Nov 2013?

SIA flies 4 daily SYD of which 2 are A380s, 4 daily PER, just about double daily ADL in the summer, 3 daily BNE, 3 daily MEL of which 2 are A380s.

If the Asian market is so important to QF, why are they sending their oldest planes to SIN, while SQ will have more than double the capacity to Australia, most with very new planes?

dragon man
8th Oct 2012, 20:11
Good post DrPepz. Why the 400 out of Melbourne and not Sydney as the 400 does no other flying to ML hence ferry flights i would think. Also you would think that Sydney would have the higher demand hence should have the bigger aircraft. Lastly if they are hoping that QF customers will willingly connect out of SIN on Jetstar Asia i think they will get a surprise, they will only do it once in my opinion. Just more great ideas for the flying Titanic.

8th Oct 2012, 20:37
Don't forget that EK have four flights a day to SIN with one or two of those going A380 soon. So lots of room there for the average QF FF!
If your flying on points, don't expect one-stop to anywhere!

More interesting is the Qatar membership to the One World alliance.

How is that going to work?


8th Oct 2012, 21:07
How did this happen?

Let me tell you the process, it's called multi-level marketing.

Qantas has identified every decision maker in the Federal Government that potentially affects its operations. It has also done exactly the same with the opposition in as much detail as it can.

The purpose of this exercise is to develop a picture of the chain of command from top to bottom.

Each link in the chain is assigned a "partner" who is a Qantas executive or Board member or perhaps a "friend" of Qantas ( eg: an investor). The Qantas partners are chosen to "mirror" the link female to female, economist to economist, etc.

The mission of the Qantas partner is to build a relationship, trusting if possible, with the designated link. The purpose of the relationship is twofold: gain a detailed understanding of the dynamics of the Government as it effects Qantas ie; Who hates who, who is up for promotion, what so and so wants to do and most importantly who is driving policy and what that policy is. The second purpose will come later.

The mechanism of relationship building is simple: the Boardroom lunch, the upgrade, the special service request, the invitation to a conference, the regular free lunch (so that just the Two of us can have a chat) and of course the Chairmans lounge, the tour, the Ipad, and if the target is really crass, the free flight.

If the person resists these blandishments, as they should, then the next step is to have them threatened, discredited or sidelined. This is where the famous marketing statement "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" comes from.

Armed with detailed information about the dynamics and intentions of Government Qantas then builds an action plan of how to influence Government to do its bidding.

Now to the second purpose: Subtle Blackmail. When a decision is required, Qantas simply finds out who will write the Ministers brief, some poor sod fairly far down the food chain in the Department. He gets the in depth briefing from Qantas, probably delivered via multiple meetings in the Qantas Boardroom where he (or she) is spoon fed exactly what Qantas knows will get a favourable response from the Minister, if they are really good, as I am sure they are; they will virtually write the poor sods brief for him so that all he has to do is cut and paste.

The subtle blackmail? A chosen Qantas person casually reminds the poor sod that Qantas knows his boss, his bosses boss, and the entire Department chain of command all the way to the Minister, and they know it intimately right down to the gossip. This is done informally: "I saw the Minister in the Chairmans lounge yesterday", "Is Fred really going to retire next year? Will you apply for his job?", "Did Charlie really do that? I heard.....".

The subtle message conveyed? "If you do us down, we will know about it and will take revenge. Of course if you are a good chap we will whisper that fact in the bosses ear next time a promotion opportunity arises."

It takes nerves of steel and a very high regard for ethics and integrity to resist this marketing strategy - hopefully these qualities still exist in the various Departments.

Had it done to me.

There was never any doubt that the Minister would approve the deal in my opinion. Qantas could have started a Tiger Moth service to New Zealand and received Government applause.

8th Oct 2012, 21:22
Fantastic insight to the way business works mate. This is pretty much the exact scenario I am witnessing.

8th Oct 2012, 23:52
Its a cliche but:Business runs the country not the Government.We need annual KPIs introduced for pollies.Don't meet the benchmark of integrity ?You are toast.A quaint idea that will never come to fruition.
They are all scumbags!!!

9th Oct 2012, 00:21
Excellent post Sunfish.

9th Oct 2012, 01:34

My read of your post infers that in the corporate world, should you fail to meet the benchmark of integrity, you have failed in the KPI's and you are toast.

I would argue that with what has been seen in the corporate sector, Qantas not the least, such a premise is without foundation. Indeed I would argue that failing the benchmark in corporate land, has been used as grounds for promotion or bonus. :rolleyes:

Stalins ugly Brother
9th Oct 2012, 03:02
If the Asian market is so important to QF, why are they sending their oldest planes to SIN, while SQ will have more than double the capacity to Australia, most with very new planes?

Because the 787 will replace these "old" aircraft from 2016. Probably based out of Singapore of course! :eek:

9th Oct 2012, 06:17

I think you give the Qantas board too much credit for the intelligence that is required for this kind of divisive action. I just think that to get all this together requires the cooperation of a lot of people with the ability to keep it quiet while things are being carried out. It just HAS to break down somewhere and get leaked to the press.
While I think that much of this DOES occur, it would be in small tranches of unrelated issues. Put it all together and it would be an amazing coup.
On the other hand, if this scenario is true as Fedsec seems to imply, and both sides of politics are as complicit as each other, then this is the saddest state of Australian politics I've ever seen.

For the sake of us all I hope this NOT the case.


9th Oct 2012, 10:07
Aero, every consulting group and government service provider as well as every major corporation does exactly as I have outlined. You can take my word for it. I have had two directors rammed down my throat thanks to chairmans lounge intrigues and it is ludicrous to suppose that Qantas can't execute such a strategy.

I have had it done to me as a reasonably senior execitive in a not so large company say around 100 million turnover. It is devastatingly simple and exploits the fault lines between the public service, the politicians and the ministers staff.

I left out the glaring chasm in Australian regulation - the lack of any laws to prohibit former politicians and staffers from selling their influence to the highest bidder.

To put it another way, both sides of politics are totally and utterly corrupt. The public service, not so much, but they are fighting a losing battle against the moneyed elite.

To put it another way, how do you think those "public/private partnerships" get up all the time?

9th Oct 2012, 13:23
Well, you live and learn no matter what your experience.

10th Oct 2012, 10:19
The QF balance sheet is the problem. They cannot afford to order new jets, or lease them as things stand. The orders they have currently are almost too much for them to finance given the current financial state of affairs. They may have cash in the bank, but look at the committed liabilities of the group and you get the idea. More than the cash in the bank.

There have been many opportunities of late to secure opportunities, but the rapid growth of the group (read JQ) has eaten into the parents buying power.

Why would they be keeping 767's, and deferring 380's and 787's. The future for international is codeshare now.

10th Oct 2012, 11:48
Why the 400 out of Melbourne and not Sydney as the 400 does no other flying to ML hence ferry flights i would think.

Surely QF can rotate the 747s through SIN? The aircraft that flies MEL-SIN doesn't have to to return SIN-MEL. It could definitely do SIN-BNE, or even SIN-FRA or SIN-SYD.