Could a GR4A be used in search for April Jones?

[Bubblewindow]

I'm not offay with the actual equipment on a Tonka and without infringing on OPSEC (I hope) , could its recce equipment be used in the search for little April Jones in Wales?
Didn't they use one for Roul Moate?

I'm not talking IR here (sadly) but actual optics and I'm sure the pilots would be more than willing and have knowledge of the area seen as its the Mach Loop and is also often used for CAS and FAC excercises.

I could be totally wrong about the capabilities , hence my question.

Cheers,
BW

[downsizer]

I'm sure a Harrier could, it could do everything after all....:E

[Tashengurt]

I think the difference between this case and Moat is that with the latter they were looking more for a potential hide or campsite rather than just a person.

[Training Risky]

GR4s have been tasked before to search for missing persons in the UK. IR returns stand out quite well in a big cold forest.

What the GR4 can't do is analyse the imagery - you need a large team of TG11 Imagery Analysts for that.

[tartare]

Tonka was also used for similar missing person searches in Germany in the late 1990's I believe.

[foxvc10]

Used a Jaguar, one Saturday for Megan Mathews (??) West Sussex near Pulborough a few years back.

[jimgriff]

I did wonder same myself as a lone GR4 went towards the Mach area yesterday eve at about 4pm.

[rotormonkey]

Maybe not in the search, but could be useful as part of the punishment for the :mad: bar steward.

[big v]

We did IR line-scan from a PR9 during the search for Sarah Payne. Unfortunately we were looking around the area of her disappearance and the poor child was miles away.

Terrible stuff.

[chopper2004]

Nena Wiley's book America's Drug Enforcement Air Force (Motorbooks circa 1990) looking at the various air branches of the then US Customs Service and USCG, and DoD assets trying to combat the drugs coming in by air and sea. In the last few chapters dedicated to the DoD - NORAD and ARNG and ANG, theres mention of the 163rd TRS (now equipped with Predator after changeover from KC-135R) then equipped with RF-4 and how they assisted local law enforcement from US Customs Service, US Border Patrol and prob CHP etc etc.

And back to topic, didnt a while back, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, some girl went missing in Norfolk and a PR.9 was scrambled from Marham to help the local constabularly?

[Bubblewindow]

Thanks for the replies.
Being an aerial recce person myself I'd gladly analyse any amount of imagery if it helped .
Sad times!

BW

[sturb199]

To be fair any GR Tonka would do as the 4A's kit is old hat now and a LIII pod or RAPTOR would be better?

[Easy Street]

All the recce kit in the GR4A was disabled several years ago, making it essentially identical to a GR4, just without a gun. Both types would either use a Litening or RAPTOR pod to do visual or IR imagery. Especially with a RAPTOR pod, vast areas of imagery could be hoovered up very quickly; it's the painstaking analysis that takes the real effort and time.

RAPTOR was used in the Raoul Moat search, and has been said, the search for a campsite made it a somewhat different task than that currently being discussed.

Edited to add: sturb199 beat me to it - well almost - it's not just old hat, it's gone!

[Lima Juliet]

An unarmed REAPER would be excelent - over 20hrs of endurance, high definition EO and IR plus a cracking Synthetic Apeture RADAR. Only problem are the short sighted individuals that bleat about it not being able to "see and avoid" :ugh:

LJ

[Bubblewindow]

Both types would either use a Litening or RAPTOR pod to do visual
Ah yes, you've jogged my memory.
I remember standing in a forestry carpark after decending a hill in the Loop (not far from the current search) having a cold pear cider (just one btw) and hearing Monster 1 call up on the radio telling Monster 2 "it's a yellow tractor in a small square field".
I looked ahead and across the Dovey there was a small hidden yellow tractor near an old farmhouse. And as sure as manure stinks, Monster 2 comes rattling down the valley to kill the insurgent tractor. (Yes I know it was a tractor but still)
Also been on the receiving end of Strike Eagles performing a similar scenario but they were picking people out on the hill so it can be done.

BW

[Tankertrashnav]

Even further back PR Canberras were used to search Saddleworth Moor in the Brady/Hindley case, although there they were looking for evidence of disturbed ground in an attempt to find the graves.

Not looking good now.

[Stu666]

I remember reading an article, probably a decade or so ago, in which the capability of RAF surveillance jets at searching for disturbed ground was described. Can't remember if they were talking about Canberra or Tornado, but it was definitely in relation to a murder case. Does the RAF still have such a capability?

[Charlie Luncher]

Use an ISTAR platform that can coord other assets on the ground or air conduct IR/EO imagery with onboard 1st line analysis from a experienced combat operator and extend the range of ground units radio, with several hours task time available.
Shame you got rid of the Nimrod:ugh::suspect:
Charlie sends

[Heathrow Harry]

Moat hid in a water pipe - ... not very high tech but it seemed to defy all the efforts to find him from the air...............

[Bubblewindow]

A pair of Vinten 70mm camera pods and a trained MK I Eyeball were excellent at searching for disturbed ground. A pod on each wing produced a pair of images with a 60% overlap that allowed us to see an almost 3D stereoscopic image.

We used them quite successfully to find 'Hidden Items' in a certain area during the 70's-90's. Unfortunately in this case I think the river has played a major part :(

BW

[Courtney Mil]

We don't need air recce now that he's been charged. Thumb screws and te$ticle$ in a vice should yield much quicker results.

[BEagle]

Thumb screws and te$ticle$ in a vice should yield much quicker results.

Rather messy and mediaeval, Courtney old bean?

Whereas the mere action of igniting one of these would make the bugger squeal, without perhaps any actual need to apply it to the relevant parts of the nether regions.....

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Persuader.jpg

[Courtney Mil]

You have a very dark side, BEags. We shall all threat you with great respect from now on.

[Courtney Mil]

Actually, where do you get those?

[Easy Street]

[:8] Disturbed ground can often be seen using any IR sensor. If it's freshly disturbed, the earth dug up from below is a different temperature and hence IR contrast is seen. Even much later, IR contrast can still show it up, because disturbed soil will heat up and cool down at a different rate to surrounding vegetation as the sun goes up and down [/:8]

[TEEEJ]

NOTAM

H5460/12 - unmanned aerial system ocnl oper wi 5nm radius of 5239n 00350w (corris, gwynedd). Ops ctc 07577812771. 12-10-0347/as 2. Sfc - 5000ft amsl, 0700-1800, 14 oct 07:00 2012 until 16 oct 18:00 2012. Created: 12 oct 13:19 2012

[Bubblewindow]

Intresting . Glad to see they are (apparently) using dedicated recce assets for the search.
(Aircraft did use the loop today though (?) )

BW

[Trim Stab]

[http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif] Disturbed ground can often be seen using any IR sensor. If it's freshly disturbed, the earth dug up from below is a different temperature and hence IR contrast is seen. Even much later, IR contrast can still show it up, because disturbed soil will heat up and cool down at a different rate to surrounding vegetation as the sun goes up and down [/http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif]


Yes, but thanks to the internet any fule no that. So she is probably not buried.