life insurance

[phase slag]

After a couple of recent crashes that have left servicemen either in a wheelchair or worse I have thought about upgrading my life insurance to look after both myself and the family if the worst happens.

Who, how much and where (no links to financial advisors please) are you insured with? Any problems with the extreem sport of flying?

Does anyone know how much my family would receive from Auntie Bettie if I broke my back at work tomorrow?

Just one of the ignorant masses looking for advice.

PS

[rotor tree]

There are loads of considerations to think about on this one. Some recent advice was to establish your in service death benefit, which can be obtained from the relevant pensions section of your service. Once this is known you can then think about how much extra you need to top this up with. There are schemes within the armed forces that are cheap, but there is a case for going down the independent route. The reason for this is that you can start your own term assurance now (for say 25 yrs) and the premium will be relatively cheap. If you rely entirely on military schemes then the cost of re-insuring yourself when you leave (ie when you are possibly much older) will be much greater. In the end the best advice is to get advice! However, remember you can claim back 90% of the cost of the extra premium for flying risks. Have a happy personal finance day...!

[G.Khan]

It sounds as though you may be wanting Personal Accident insurance rather than just Life Insurance?

There is a syndicate at LLoyds that will write PA insurance specifically for pilots and they delete all the usual exclusions that most companies initially apply and then charge a bomb to remove, the favourite is, "flying as other than a passenger on a public transport aircraft - excluded"

Having retired and moved houses and countries I have lost my contact information BUT the broking company that handled it for me was Marsh & Mclennan in London, (formerly C.T. Bowring),
if you 'phone them and ask for the AVIATION division, (NOT the PA Dept.), then explain that you want PA for pilots you should be sent in the right direction. The last time I renewed it cost me GBP437:00p for a policy limit of GBP250,000:00p with a sliding scale for injuries. As the syndicate is a LLoyds one you have no choice but to go via a Lloyds approved broker and M & M are the biggest. Not sure what Lloyds attitiude to service flying would be but they are an enlightened bunch and there is no harm in asking! Hope this helps. Cheers, Ghengis K.

[PTT]

Allied Dunbar cover you for everything, including war and suicide (after 1 year). The cost's not too prohibitive, either.

Also, there is no "loading" unless you currently fly a front line fast jet - if you do not now fly one then you will never pay the loading, and even if you do then you can claim a large portion of it back.

Mine was sold to me by an ex-Shackleton nav. I can send you his name and contact details if you like - e-mail [email protected]

PTT

[Climebear]

I apologize if this has an Air Force slant but this is nowhere near a joint arena. However, I think the other 2 Services have similar arrangements. Also please check this with a UK based blunty as I am far away from Bluntdom and can't double check things. Therefore, this is from a hazy memory (I am a bear of little brain).

If you die in Service while on a pensionable engagement (that is any reckonable Service over 2 years (not just an engagement that earns an immediate pension) your spouse will get a payout from the Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) (Sorry about the ISSness of that but it will be handy). The pension people (civvies) in AFPAA at Innsworth (not PMA) can give you an assessment of the likely payout. You have the ability to significantly increase this amount by taking out Death In Service Additional Voluntary Contributions AVCs (these are difference to the AVCs to maximize your pension). There is a formula for the amount percentage of your salary this will cost you in the Blunty Bible AP3392 Vol2 (this is available on SAMA with your Sqn Clerks). You will need to check the cost of this for you against other forms of insurance as it is not always the cheapest option. I do not fly but I am stupid enough to climb mountains. For me it is cheaper that paying a commercial insurance with the dangerous sports loading. As Rotor Tree mentioned, you should also remember that you can claim back some of the excess loading through the Service, you should take this into account when you way up the costs against the benefits. If you are married (no this doesn't yet apply to non-married relationships - though not for want of the RAF trying and MOD stalling I understand) your spouse should receive a war widow’s pension (see the link http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/homepage.htm ).

If you are disabled as a result of an accident and discharged on medical grounds you could be entitled to a disability pension that varies with the degree of disability. To confuse matters there are 2 types of pension here depending if your injuries are deemed to be attributable to your service or not. If they are then the payout is higher. Again examples of disability pensions are given in the AP. I also seem to remember that there was an A5 booklet on the AFPS published a few years ago now - that may give you some additional information.

The review of AFPS may well improve the compensation package but I am not sure on the current status of the review or how it would affect those already on old terms especially relating to compensation. I believe that it was proposed that those on the existing scheme would retain this scheme and be offered a once only chance to cross over to the new scheme for their pension. But I do not know how the new compensation proposals could be adopted.

If you need to top this up please see an independent financial advisor before you do anything (on no account take a blunty's word for it (even mine) this is too important to your/and your family's future. There are other commercial schemes some with the MOD's support (ie PAX+ which doesn't load for flying) and the RAF Benevolent Fund have a Dependants Income Scheme. But please do seek independent financial advice before committing any money.

One final (though morbid) word of advice, make sure that you have a will, it is up to date (Have you included all your children? What happens to your children if you and your spouse die together in an accident? etc), and people know where it is. If this isn't in order you intended beneficiaries may not get what you expected and the only winner will be the taxman (some advice on wills is here: http://www.rafcom.co.uk/bereavement/index_bereavement.cfm ).

Sorry to be so morbid, but hopes this helps. Please feel free to drop me a line if you need anything else (but please note I am deployed on Ops so my reference library is somewhat limited and I may not be able to respond straight away).

Don't have nightmares!

[Proman]

The situation for full time personnel appears pretty clear...for part time reserve (I'm a RAuxAF officer) it's more complicated.

I'm currently seeking permanent health/income protection insurance. Death seems well covered - injury or illness preventing work is less so.

Civilian companies have declined me because of my military undertaking. Military companies such as Affinitas have declined me because I'm not full time. I'm caught in the middle.

The best I seem to be able to do is Friends Provident, which is offering cover 'except in a war zone'. Not ideal given what I do, but the best I can get - given that 95 per cent of what I do is in the civilian world anyway that's where the biggest risk for me lies. Details are coming to me in the post now.

I've asked for clarificaton on what is a war zone (eg: would Bahrein have been in the war zone during the Gulf Way, ot Pakistan now) but I get nothing back, and am reluctant to push too hard in case they too decline me, as it's better than nothing!

Innsworth is not terribly helpful - referring me to the AP 3392 Sect 7 which simply says 'we'll look at your case on an individual if it goes tit's up' rather than the pages of provision/rates/detail for full-time. That doesn't reassure my wife!

Suggestions welcome!

[G.Khan]

An insurer is OBLIGED to tell you when the terms and conditions of your policy change, i.e. what and what is not and when is a particular theatre now a War Zone if the policy cover changes. If they don't tell you then they are guilty of a failure and could be held accountable. If you fail to tell an insurer when your circumstances have changed and that may effect your cover, as it was originally written, then you are guilty of non disclosure of essential information which will void your policy, the insurer has obligations too.

Lots of good advice here on this thread, all grist to the mill.

[madasacow]

Don't forget, if the worst were to happen and both you and your spouse were to pass away in the same accident the law would regard the younger person as the one who died ‘last’. Thus if you both leave all your ‘worldly goods’ to your spouse then you need to make sure that the younger of the two of you has a proper will arranged!

[Grimweasel]

Well I never!!

Something else that the Military has kept quite about for many years now (well the Green side anyway)

Many thanks for the reply concerning the rebate of extra premiums for Life insurance. Our pay bod has just been inindated with a lot of forms to claim that little sucker back. Its even back dated too!!

Oh joy! Money back to us! Why do the services not publish a book so that when you join etc. you are aware of the FULL rebates and claims that you are able to take?

IIP????:) :)