Loose Row of Seats on American Airlines

[AmericanFlyer]

Loose row of seats on American Airlines flights causes emergency landing at JFK - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/plane_seats_go_ying_wT7T2QbcQCv44uAhEjgtJK)

[hetfield]

"Emergency landing".....

ooha:ugh:

[PENKO]

Now if the captain was allowed to bring his multitool on board by security, he might have fixed the problem in two minutes!

[broadreach]

Hetfield, what should it be called? Precautionary sounds a bit tame.

[Alex757]

Surely if the PAX stayed sat in them, they wouldn't move anywhere?

How ridiculous!

[SeenItAll]

You can't have a large heavy unsecured object (e.g., a bank of seats) in the cabin. The plane hits turbulence, and it will do real damage to surrounding PAX.

[hetfield]

Hetfield, what should it be called? Precautionary sounds a bit tame.

What about "Diversion" ?

[Avionker]

Surely if the PAX stayed sat in them, they wouldn't move anywhere?

How ridiculous!

Alex 757, if were old enough to work on aircraft you would, I suspect, not make such a ridiculous remark yourself.

The points of contact for a row of seats are extremely small, and the legs are not evenly spaced along the row. The only time the seats are stable is when they are properly secured in the seat tracks..

[Bond'll Do]

:}

Yep, had this on B-747-136 once. Straight out of the hangar...ready to fly....lol.

In 'E' zone got a call to come and look pre-engine start...sure enough...a whole 3-seat row unbolted to the floor and when pax sat down realised they had more 'recline' than they were used to!

Had to be seen to be believed.

Whole row removed and pax/luggage removed....3 unhappy teddies not going to Miami! ;-) as flight was full.

[Old 'Un]

Why didn't they just bolt down the seats again....?

Probably couldn't find a LAME... all been outsourced, y'know.

[NSEU]

Mayer added. “It’s a head-scratcher, the first time I’ve heard of it in 24 years with American.”

Seriously?

[pjd_012]

According to CNN

(CNN) -- Seats on two American Airlines jetliners came loose on flights in rare occurrences that prompted the company to inspect eight Boeing planes, the carrier said.
An American spokeswoman confirmed both incidents took place on Saturday and Monday. There were no reports of injuries to passengers on either 757 aircraft.
The first incident occurred on a flight from Boston to Miami that was carrying 175 passengers. It diverted to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport when three seats in Row 12 came loose shortly after takeoff.
A second, similar incident occurred on Monday on a flight from New York to Miami with 154 passengers. It returned to JFK without further incident.

[paddybiggles]

Inspector Cleusot of the Surete would begin his investigations in Miami which of course in the common denominator in both of these outrages.:suspect:

[bubbers44]

It wasn't American's fault because they were outsourcing maintenance so quality of workmanship will always be compromised. They also work on our engines by the way.

It is cheaper in the long run so like some airlines using automation to reduce pilot training costs saves money too unless something happens that required more training than they got. Then it costs a lot more.

[Airbubba]

Inspector Cleusot of the Surete would begin his investigations in Miami which of course in the common denominator in both of these outrages.

In past times of labor unrest in Miami, suspicious maintenance 'failures' have occurred.

Evac slides mysteriously popped at Eastern and wires were cut in the weeks before the IAM strike. Seems like the mechanics were given the day off in the hours before the strike deadline lest they trash the place on the way out.

Of course, maintenance outsourcing in MIA has also had horrific consequences in the Valujet 592 crash.

It will be interesting to see where the investigation leads in these 'unusual' seat incidents.

[westhawk]

I heard the conversation between the aircraft and ATC concerning this incident on the news today. (apparently recorded by that well known ATC internet site) The pilot sounded like he was trying not to seem overly amused by the situation, but without much success! In his position I would have difficulty suppressing my laughter.

Outright sabotage? I doubt it even if such things did happen in the past. But post 9/11? Gitmo anyone? I used to do "outsourced mx" for an airline in one of my previous jobs. Our work was superior to the airline's own work by a wide margin. No. it's just as likely to be just another mx screwup in the fast paced low cost world of the modern airline biz where Kost is King! (spelling deliberate!)

[cwatters]

Boston To Miami American Airlines Flight Diverted Seats Loosen « CBS Boston (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/01/boston-to-miami-flight-diverted-after-row-of-seats-becomes-loose/)

The airline announced Monday that eight aircraft will be taken out of service as a result.

[infrequentflyer789]

It wasn't American's fault because they were outsourcing maintenance so quality of workmanship will always be compromised.

Or maybe not, maybe something more interesting.

Quotes from AA in the news this am.:

American Airlines spokeswoman Mary Frances Fagan said that an initial internal investigation 'indicated that there could be a possible issue with a certain model of seats and how they fit into the tracking used to secure the seats'.

The seats were installed by American Airlines maintenance and maintenance contractors and the issue does not seem to be tied to any one maintenance facility or group, the company said.

[brakedwell]

Obesity fatigue?

[SLFguy]

"Obesity fatigue?"

Fat chance..

[barit1]

Evac slides mysteriously popped at Eastern...

I have reports from a former colleague of many disruptive events at EAL-MIA that drove up costs. Employees thought they were protesting Frank Lorenzo's belt-tightening management actions, but in reality they were hastening the demise of their employer.

[BobnSpike]

"...belt tightening management actions..."? I've never heard it euphamized quite so eloquently.

And by that time the demise was a foregone conclusion.

[Ct.Yankee]

Hey! After a few months of write ups, we had the cleanest, discrepancy free fleet in the industry!

[EEngr]

Surely if the PAX stayed sat in them, they wouldn't move anywhere?
Right. But during turbulence, the plane drops and hits the PAX in the detached seats in the head with the ceiling.

[Alex757]

I suppose yes...

Was any turbulence forecast?

[Airbubba]

The loose seat epidemic continues:

3rd American Airlines Flight Had Seats Come Loose

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: October 2, 2012 at 11:11 AM ET

DALLAS (AP) — American Airlines says passenger seats on a third flight came loose during flight and it's continuing to inspect other jets with similar seating.

American officials say that the loose seats are not an act of sabotage by angry workers.

The airline acknowledged Tuesday that seats came loose on a flight last week between Vail, Colo., and Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport. The same thing happened on a flight Saturday and another on Monday.

American Airlines spokeswoman Andrea Huguely says the airline is inspecting eight of its Boeing 757s that share similar seat assemblies.

The planes involved in the Saturday and Monday incidents were recently worked on at an American Airlines maintenance base in Tulsa, Okla., and at a Timco Aviation Services facility in North Carolina. Timco has declined to comment.

[jackharr]

F27 airtest following major servicing. Pre-flight was unusually thorough.

“V1, rotate” called the other pilot. On rotate – seat promptly shot backwards. “Your’s Bill” I yelled but he hardly needed second bidding as I let go of the controls.
(Well you try holding the control column forward as your seat shoots fully aft)

The seat locking pin – and I swear I had checked it very carefully – had come unlocked.

We had a ground engineer with us. I got out of the seat and watched while engineer spent some ten minutes or so fixing my seat locking mechanism.

[Turbine D]

In listening to the "loose seat" story on ABC Evening News, they indicated it had nothing to do with worker sabotage. They did, however, note that the seats in question were procured from a different manufacturer and have been used to replace worn or damaged seats on various AA B-757 aircraft. Perhaps dimensional tolerances are different enough for the newer seats to come loose over time and usage when fitted into the original floor rails.

[EEngr]

They did, however, note that the seats in question were procured from a different manufacturer and have been used to replace worn or damaged seats on various AA B-757 aircraft.
Perhaps. Any information on the time or number of cycles between seat replacement and them coming loose?

Its possible that the new seats require (but did not receive) different fastening hardware or procedures from the original ones. Its all guessing right now, but I'm sure AA will be chasing this down ASAP. Who knows how many other loose nuts they've got flying around.

[glad rag]

Seat tracks/racks.

Total BANE during production, have to be fitted past a certain build stage, throw in your usual low cost off the street frenchie who has NO IDEA of husbandry FOD prevention and then 8 months later they are all :mad: due to hard objects [including swarf/tywrap heads] damaging them underneath the floorboards.

madness I tell ye.:\

[WhatsaLizad?]

Alex757,

If your profile is correct, I'm glad you're showing an interest. It's a career without a dull moment for sure.

With a loose row of seats, even if the pax can find other empty seats, the risk of a unsecured flying object is too great with turbulence or even if another problem developed later which could require an emergency landing at a very short field and even exiting the runway where things really get rough. I've spoken with a few who have experience those, and they can be violent. A row of seats flying would be a threat. Having the long, wide runways of JFK appearing under your nose once the problem is figured out is too easy to pass up. Add to that the knowledge that it the major airline base of the company in question and the likelyhood of a spare aircraft or another flight to accommodate your paxs seals the deal to land there.

I would also add the flight was found to have 20+ rows with bad seats. It could have been a life threatening event in the event of a simple aborted takeoff. The RTO autobrakes setting on the B757 is very efficient for stopping and very abrubt. I'd bet most of the 20 rows would have broken off if that occurred and the possibility of serious injury or death in the event of infants and small children being held in the laps of the typical flight is something I really don't want to consider.

[Dushan]

NBC nightly News reporting that a bracket, holding the seats in the track, was installed improperly.

First Murphy's law: if a part can be installed in two different ways, one of which is wrong, it will invariably be installed that way.

[jackharr]

First Murphy's law: if a part can be installed in two different ways, one of which is wrong, it will invariably be installed that way. I thought that was the second Murphy's law. The first is in the index entitled: Muphry's First Law

[barit1]

Speaking of First Laws -

When I was Alex757's age, I had at least a passing understanding of Newton's First Law of motion.

And I had an encounter with it during a night TO - I was seated in a forward aisle seat, leaning over the vacant window seat to watch the view. Then jarred back to reality when a galley cart became unmoored, tried to remain at rest while the rest of the airplane accelerated to V1, and said cart delivered its contents onto my seat when it struck my armrest.

An object lesson in Newtonian physics! :eek:

[Dg800]

An object lesson in Newtonian physics!

With the added benefit of free drinks and snacks (for you). :E

[reynoldsno1]

Seems to me that this guy Newton should be under investigation...

[biocybertronics]

I really feel for American Airlines at the moment although I never liked them myself after flying with them a few times, I always found the customer service substandard.
Although the flight was pleasant and the crew great, just the people on the ground, losing my baggage twice out of 5 flights is an awful record.

All be it I did get them back but it’s not the point when you have a meeting the next morning and your suit and some paperwork are in the bag.
However a company that could very well fold, or at least subject to a takeover, nothing at all seems to be going their way at the moment.
With every news station reporting it this morning over and over, and so many other carriers out there, it must have hurt their bottom line massively, especially with Thanksgiving coming up and people booking flights soon to go home.

From how it was reported it seemed third party parts were used, and I guess over time when a tolerance is only slightly out its going to cause more wear than normal, and I believe any suggestion of employee sabotage is ludacris in today’s climate, would that not be classed as an act of terrorism and although the weather in Cuba is better than Boston’s this time of year I would not fancy spending it at GBay.

[Flash2001]

I took my last flight as pax with AA in 2006. Just before pushback on schedule we were told that we had to load some "Very important paperwork" as cargo. Cargo already loaded had to be moved from one hold to another. Delay, about 45 minutes. Obviously the paperwork was more important to AA than pax connections, pax time or anything else for that matter. I told the captain on exit that he had the privilege of being the last AA employee to ever look me in the eye. Delay for transplant organs or some such, OK. Paperwork, to hell with them!

After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!

[Chu Chu]

Hope this isn't too far off topic. I read somewhere about a pilot who took a VIP up as observer back in the days of biplanes and open cockpits. He rolled inverted, then turned to the rear cockpit to point out a parachute opening far below. But there was no sign of the observer or the seat he was strapped to . . .

[espresso drinker]

Just read this on Flight Global and found it to be interesting. American points to saddle clamp for loose seats (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/american-points-to-saddle-clamp-for-loose-seats-377275/)

American Airlines says that an improperly installed saddle clamp resulted in a row of seats coming loose in-flight on two of its Boeing 757-200s.
The Fort Worth-based Oneworld carrier says that the clamp in question is used to secure seats to the aircraft floor on 47 of its 757s (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/Boeing%20757.html). It has expanded seat inspections to all of these aircraft from the initial 10.
"American planned to evaluate the seats on eight Boeing 757 (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/Boeing%20757.html) airplanes, but out of an abundance of caution, the decision was made to proactively evaluate a total of 47 Boeing 757 airplanes that have the same model main cabin seats with a common locking mechanism," says American.
The airline says that 36 757s were inspected by the end of 2 October, with the remaining 11 aircraft to be inspected overnight and today.
The investigations follow a row of seats becoming loose on multiple occasions on two Boeing 757-200s. The first incident occurred in row 14 seats A, B and C during flight on American 2206 from Vail to Dallas-Fort Worth on 26 September, the same row then came loose after a flight from Dallas to Boston on the same day, and it came loose a third time during flight 443 from New York's John F. Kennedy (JFK) to Miami after which the aircraft returned to JFK on 1 October.
The problem was first identified on the 757 in row 12 seats D, E and F on the ground in Miami on 27 September after which the clamps were tightened. The row came loose again in the air on flight 685 from Boston to Miami and the aircraft was diverted to JFK on 29 September.
American and the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) are working closely regarding the seat clamp investigation, the airline says.
The FAA said that preliminary information indicated that the seats on two of the diverted flights were recently removed and re-installed, in a statement on 2 October.
The Transport Workers Union said that maintenance contractor TIMCO conducted the majority of the seat installation, in a statement on 2 October. "Problems related to seats are less likely a labour problem, but rather a management issue related to outsourcing work to third-party facilities," it says.
TIMCO says that they are working closely with American on the issue and declines further comment.
"The issue does not seem to be tied to any one maintenance facility or one workgroup," says American. "Safety is - and always will be - American's top concern."

Hope you guys and gals don't mind me posting on here, as I'm a Rotorhead :)

[WhatsaLizad?]

Major cancellations for B757 flights just started at AA.

Sounds like a US goverment aviation agency may have had enough of AA management.

No news yet across the wires for the official reason.

[Wino]

48 757s grounded to have the seats repaired again. This time they are sure they know what's wrong with them. Aircraft will be out of service till Saturday. Must be the pilot's fault again somehow...

[WhatsaLizad?]

Wino,

At least Aeroflot isn't the symbol of the dregs of air travel anymore. AA is.

[GarageYears]

Now AA is blaming spilled soda, coffee and snacks.....

Something called the seat lock plunger mechanism can "get gunked up over time with people spilling sodas, popcorn, coffee or whatever and that can affect that locking mechanism on the ground that locks the seat to the floor," airline spokeswoman Mary Frances Fagan said Friday

So it's nothing to do with the fact these seats happen to be in section that is reconfigured (and hence subject to incorrect installation)... it's soda. :rolleyes:

[jcjeant]

Now AA is blaming spilled soda, coffee and snacks.....
When the next law for ban such substances in cabin :confused: :ugh:

[Carbon Bootprint]

Now AA is blaming spilled soda, coffee and snacks.....Of course it's the pax's fault. Without those useless barstewards no one would be whinging about cancellations and being on time and all that other nonsense -- heck, then the planes wouldn't even need seats! :oh:

[Dushan]

What is their claim with soda? That it corroded the track? There would have to be an awful lot of it and for a long time to do that, if at all. I think they are bringing the pop and coffee thing forward as a Segway into not bringing it on board. Saves On the cost of the drinks and saves on weight. Never let a crisis go to waste.

[biocybertronics]

Unless you buy their airline friendly coca cola @ $8 a can.

[Victor Inox]

Reminds me of an experience some twenty years ago flying from Jan Smuts to FDMS on an early morning service which was advertised as a RSN flight, but turned out to be operated by a LAM aircraft.

When we approached Manzini on that early morning there was thick fog, and the flight deck crew decided to abort and divert to FQMA, their home base, rather than return to FAJS. Nobody on board obviously had a visa for Mozambique, and we were held in a tiny room pending better weather conditions at Manzini.

We finally departed Lourenço Marques in what was a similar B737 that we had arrived on. However, when taking off and following rotation, the rear 10 or so rows of seats began to slide back, moving the COG accordingly and drastically changing the pitch. Lots of screeming ensued. It's a credit to the cockpit crew that they managed to get the situation under control and return to FQMA. As it turned out, the aircraft had been used for freight duty with the seats removed, but somehow the process of tightening of the bolts securing the seats had been interrupted at some point and not completed prior to departure.:}

[BobnSpike]

If memory serves, years ago a mechanic was interrupted while refastening the leading edge to the horizontal stab of US commuter turboprop. The leading edge separated in flight and all aboard were killed.

[bill_s]

Back in the late 70s, I had just rotated a well worn Cessna 150 off
the Buffalo, MN airport, when I found myself at the back of the cockpit.
For some reason, I released the yoke when the seat let go of its track, and got
to claw myself back into position instead of the other outcome.

When I explained the situation to the crusty retired bush pilot FBO,
he replied "That's what those phone books in the back of the cockpit are for."

Woulda been nice if he had put that on the checklist.

This has happened a number of times with light Cessnas, with more predictable results. People have died, lawyers have prospered.

[Intruder]

Something called the seat lock plunger mechanism can "get gunked up over time with people spilling sodas, popcorn, coffee or whatever and that can affect that locking mechanism on the ground that locks the seat to the floor," airline spokeswoman Mary Frances Fagan said Friday
That's an interesting twist...

Normally, all the "gunk" on boats, trains, planes, and autompbiles makes it HARDER to get the pieces apart when needed. It's VERY STRANGE that at AA the "gunk" makes all those old seats come apart!

I wonder if Ms Fagan has a clue at all...

[lomapaseo]

Normally, all the "gunk" on boats, trains, planes, and autompbiles makes it HARDER to get the pieces apart when needed. It's VERY STRANGE that at AA the "gunk" makes all those old seats come apart!

I wonder if Ms Fagan has a clue at all.

It ain't the initial come apart doing maintenance that is the problem.

Some of us have vans where the rear seat is on tracks. Everything is fine for a few years until we need to slide the seat back a foot to fit the new TV in that the missus wants for the house. We bang on the seat to get it unlatched and then try sliding it back until we feel it settle into a new latch position. Only the gunk from all the kiddies spillling their slurpies etc. prevents the latch to make a truly satisfying snap sound as it seats. But the seat seems not to move anymore so we assume everything is OK.

Then when we slam on the brakes the seat comes hurtling forward because the new latch position was never quite seated.

[KBPsen]

That's a reasonable description of what the problem likely is, lomapaseo.

Much better than a lot of people, whose only experience of seats is sitting in them, making snap judgements. See what I did there!

[MightyOneFiveTwo]

There's been a recurring inspection AD on those Cessna seat latches for years now. But a little imagination is sufficient to realize you do NOT want this happening to you... :eek:

[WhatsaLizad?]

"I wonder if Ms Fagan has a clue at all..."

She does, but she deliberatley and intentionally lies to suit her purposes.

During the AA Flight Attendant strike in 1992, AA decided to fly the entire schedule even though they only had 1000 or so Scab FA's and a couple hundred management replacements out of 20,000 total needed. Only a small percentage of flights were capable of hauling passengers. Ms Frances Fagan knew this, yet stood on live national tv, and announced while pointing to the empty jets "see, everything is normal, come out to the airport, all our planes are flying". She was lying and knew it.

Now the seat issue. Mary Frances Fagan and the AA PR department know that the BOS-JFK diversion with the the loose row of seats also had 20 other rows barely holding. She also knew the food and gunk build-up was BS since the diversion flight had just come out of the outsourced maintenance hangar only 3 calendar days before the seats came loose.

She lied again.

[Mark in CA]

From today's NY Times:


Installation Problems Seen in American Airlines? Loose Seats - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/business/installation-problems-seen-in-american-airlines-loose-seats.html?ref=todayspaper)

[SMT Member]

So if the statement from the AA spokesperson is true, which seems to be doubtful, I guess the real question should be: Why don't AA clean their aircraft properly, at least once in a while, preventing the build up of "gunk"?

The AA spokesperson may have, inadvertently, said: Our aircraft are filthy, come fly with us!

[Semaphore Sam]

No, this is just American's attempt at increased passenger comfort, by providing rocking chairs to whole rows...why do you disparage innovation? Sam

[Basil]

jackharr,
Same thing happened to a colleague at an airfield not very far from Cambridge when taking off in a Varsity - with a similar result :ok: