Pre-Purchase Inspections

[Savoia]

Jeremy Parkin's great news site Helihub (http://www.helihub.com/) recently relayed a story from Canada (see article here (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/09/20/buyer-wins-suit-over-defective-copter-advises-probe-of-police-fleet.html)) which involved a buyer (in this case a businessman who bought a Hughes 500 .. err .. okay .. an MD500) via a broker from the US City of Colombus Police Department.

The aircraft evidently had a number of technical faults and the owner, shortly after buying the craft, suffered an engine failure.

Long story short; he took the City of Columbus to court and has recently won damages of $380,000 against his claimed $200,000 of post-purchase expenses. He was lucky.

But, in the article one reads the following: "Suter said Baker did not have his own experts examine the helicopter before he purchased it because he was assured by the City’s broker, Mark White of Oklahoma, and in sale documents, that it was mechanically sound and had passed an FAA annual inspection."

I can only reiterate what I have said previously on PPRuNe .. please .. if you are buying an aircraft (even a small one) commission a Pre-Purchase Inspection.

I cannot tell you how much heartache and frustration you will save yourself by investing the relatively small amount required to carry out an effective Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI) or 'Pre-Buy' as our cousins like to call them.

There are so many arguments in favour of a Pre-Buy that they are too numerous to mention in detail here but suffice it to say that this procedure can work to the buyer's advantage in everything from negotiating the final purchase price through to 'reduced-hasstle-after-sale-operations' - if you are guided by a professional.

If you have contacts within the industry you should be able to find someone who will recommend the relevant people capable of setting-up a Pre-Buy for you.

It is a field in which I practice (albeit principally with planks). I am not cheap .. due to the fact that in most cases (for a small to mid-size jet) I will normally recruit 3 mechanics (airframe, avionics and engines) plus a driver with a minimum of 500hrs (in practice they usually have more) on type - plus myself to evaluate, double-check and summarise the entire inspection process. I also engage in the laborious task of trawling though the craft's paperwork (and which no one enjoys).

"Here's one I prepared earlier."

I had a client from the Middle East interested in a GIII. The craft he was looking at was proffered as 'clean' specimen in 'exceptional' condition - despite its maturity of years.

When I came to the flight logs I was astonished to see that this bird was flagging-up tech faults (5 or 6) on every flight with only about half of them repeats. The only other time I had seen this frequency of issues was with an old 'dog of a bird' in the US but which from the outset was suspected of being what it was. This craft had been offered as 'exceptional'.

Here are some of the pics:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eeveRlCzMP0/UF7LsgbeQ5I/AAAAAAAAJtk/GNu54mRjQuA/w609-h406-p-k/PPI%2BG3.JPG
Savoia with client during the Pre-Buy of a GIII

Unusually, the client wanted to accompany me on the Pre-Buy .. but this was fine because it helps customers understand what they are paying for.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ImgCtgJug0E/UF7Lkx1dAZI/AAAAAAAAJto/55VGNnnosPE/s765/Cockpit+Windows+Crazing.JPG
De-bonding (milking) and crazing on corners of cockpit forward-facing windows

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6sLYjmznjIw/UF7LkydoAOI/AAAAAAAAJts/P00pIbhCiHs/s765/Covering+Loose.JPG
Loose panels. Insignificant really but .. sometimes an indication of the general standard to which a craft has been cared for

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UXOP2GuXe5o/UF7Ll-lfOEI/AAAAAAAAJtw/G3YlHzIEKqA/s765/Int+Covers+Loose+in+Cabin.JPG
More loose panels (remember the seller was presenting this craft for inspection)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SH6REbcrglI/UF7LsXiTAOI/AAAAAAAAJt4/XicyDpqU0bs/s765/Rubber+Seal+RH+Wing+Root+Trailing+Edge.JPG
Rubber seals de-bonding (not good)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4qxwdcaxiRY/UF7Lkhd95YI/AAAAAAAAJt0/wmrCKrc1b8M/s510/Bubbling+Paint+from+Hydr+Fluid.JPG
Corrosion on the underside of the lower tail section. In this case the corrosion had been left unattended for so long that it had penetrated the outer skin of the fuselage

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-c8YNWMtcmu4/UF7OfNek6wI/AAAAAAAAJuc/bUcLjaEGx5U/s765/RH+Wheel+Well.JPG
One of the wheel wells highlighting multiple corrosion sites

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-O2VgaqOBFzk/UF7Ll_HaKuI/AAAAAAAAJt8/VGuBhhHgBnI/s422/sa7.JPG
Savoia returning with client after the inspection

By the time we returned from the inspection I was able to inform the client that this aircraft could not be recommended for puchase. He was disappointed but .. because he had been with me during the final overview .. he had seen for himself the concerns I had. Yes disappointing when you've set your heart on something but .. this bird would have quickly become the proverbial Albatross around my client's neck had he proceeded without an inspection.

So, if you buying an aircraft - please do yourself a favour and commission a professional Pre-Buy.

[Sir Korsky]

Great message Sav, but kinda heavy on the give me a call notion. None of my business really, but I often see other folks get shot down for crossing the advertising line, I think you've got both paws on the other side. If you have retired or withdrawn from these ventures then I aplogise in advance. :cool:

[hihover]

How right you are.

I sold my Jet Ranger a few years ago and had about 4 PPIs. I was amazed at the variety in competence of the inspectors sent by purchasers. Only one of them was a real specialist in PPIs. The others were technically aware buddies.

One thing is certain, by paying for a quality PPI, whilst quite expensive, you will save money in the long run, or you will be diverted away from a nicely presented dog.

In general, I have found that the cost of a good PPI will be recouped in negotiated discount due to his findings.

Incidentally Savoia, just out of interest, in the last photo, are you the one on the left or the right?

Tam

[Brilliant Stuff]

Thanks Savoia for highlighting the pitfalls.

I for one thin it's valuable advice especially for our younger brethren on this forum...

[Savoia]

Great message Sav, but kinda heavy on the give me a call notion. None of my business really, but I often see other folks get shot down for crossing the advertising line, I think you've got both paws on the other side. If you have retired or withdrawn from these ventures then I aplogise in advance.

Sir Korsky: You are quite right to highlight PPRuNe's impartiality but rest assured no favours are being exhibited here. My mentioning of 'practising' is to speak from a perspective of understanding and is motivated by an authentic desire to see buyers avoid the pitfalls associated with buying without a Pre-Buy (something which still astonishes me).

If my message comes across as 'give me a call' .. and there are those considering so doing .. then please don't .. as I am not available. If the post is in anyway offensive then our fearless Moderator is more than welcome to strike it.

My hope is that potential buyers will learn the simple lesson .. "Inspect Before you Buy!".

Tam: I'm going to leave that to your wild imagination! ;)

Brilliant: Many thanks. I hope it may generate discussion from time-to-time for prospective buyers (or even inspectors) on the benefits of professional Pre-Buys.

[Helinut]

Its good advice. Sometimes it is not easy to find the right "inspector/investigator" either.

For buyers new to aviation, they need a significant degree of education too. A buyer needs to be informed, if the process is to be successful. Someone new to aviation may struggle to understand the significance of a PPI report, even if it is a good report.

[Rigga]

...and sometimes you need an independant PPI for new aircraft too. just to be sure you are getting what you ordered - and that it works.

[500AGL]

I agree wholeheartedly , its not just mech that can catch you out , about 25 years ago I was looking at buying an executive twin , in france . Luckily I engaged the services of a very experienced senior maintenance engineer, to accompany me . To cut a long story short he detected fraudulent entries in maintenance records , and a lot more, and both UK and French CAA got involved, the aircraft itself ending up being cut up for scrap :( a lucky escape :ok: for me .

[Savoia]

Rigga: You are correct. Not only for new acquisitions but in those cases where an aircraft has had perhaps a single owner who has either decided to upgrade or dispose of the asset shortly after purchase (and where the best 'deals' are usually to be found).

Ensuring the functionality of new and slightly used craft is fairly straightforward and there tend to be few surprises so it becomes about guaranteeing the transfer of warranties and fulfilment of the 'package' offered by the seller.

All the responses so far firmly endorse the practice of commissioning a Pre-Buy .. so, I just find it all the more bizarre to keep reading about owners who take a roll of the dice and purchase without doing this! Perhaps they are indeed gamblers!

For those interested in matters surrounding aircraft acquisition, Conklin & De Decker are hosting an Aircraft Acquisition seminar (https://www.conklindd.com/Page.aspx?cid=1585) in December (5-6) and which will doubtless be illuminating.

Pre-Purchase Inspections are the stablemate of professional advice on acquisitions .. another issue frequently raised on Rotorheads and where prospective buyers are weighing up the pros and cons associated with specific aircraft types.

Again, I cannot overemphasise the advantages of recruiting a professional to make a formal assessment of your requirement and then helping you decide which options will best fit your needs.

Professional Pre-Buys as well as thorough aircraft operating, performance and cost comparisons are truly indispensable assets in aircraft acquisition and will protect you from unwanted pain and disappointment in the future.

[chopjock]

Savoia

That's all very well but did you mention how much an average pre purchase inspection costs?

Why not just talk to the maintenance organization and ask them for a report?

On the other hand, It could be quite costly doing an inspection if there is nothing wrong with the aircraft.

[Helinut]

But nowhere near as expensive as not having a decent inspection done and finding a BIG problem.

[aegir]

Savoia I agreed completely with you!

[Savoia]

Chopjock: The cost of PPI's vary widely according to aircraft type and location and can quickly be affected by issues such as anomalies in the paperwork/log books or indeed anything which warrants further investigation. Ball park figures for a single turbine skid gear helicopter should range anywhere from £1,000 to £5,000 depending on the level of inspection desired. If you limit the inspection to one professional, typically a mechanic (or engineer as you call them in the UK), to perform an 'overview' of airframe, engine and dynamic components as well as a 'scan' of the logs then you should be able to wrap-up the job in a day and stay within £1,000.

That however is not the kind of service I offer. The sort of stuff I do on the planks generally runs into the tens of thousands - anywhere from $8,000 to $30,000 .. sometimes more, plus expenses, and can last a week. For this the client gets three certified mechanics (engines, airframe and avionics), a qualified pilot, plus myself. We issue a 'Certificate of Inspection' based on a thorough examination of the craft, from nose-to-tail, full testing of all the aircraft's systems both on ground and in flight. On anything but the newest aircraft the engines are borescoped. All engine, airframe and flight logs are meticulously inspected as is compliance (or non-compliance) with every AD and SB since the aircraft's date of manufacture. All manuals and their supplements are checked for validity. A full review of the aircraft's flying history, maintenance history and hangarage or storage is also conducted.

The anomalies, omissions and defects (grouped into categories) raised in almost every one of our inspections hands our customers a bargaining chip with which to negotiate the final terms of the aircraft's acquisition resulting not only in a compliant aircraft but, additionally, a lower purchase price the savings of which far exceed our healthy fees.

Regarding getting a report from the aircraft's MRO .. that is something we would not do. We would always take the craft to an independent organisation. You might be astonished how biased companies can be when it comes to commenting on aircraft under their care .. or what lengths they can sometimes go to in order to conceal shoddy work, corner-cutting or outright contravention of prescribed procedures.

Notwithstanding the above, everything needs to be viewed in perspective. A relatively inexpensive light single with which you have been personally familiar over several years may not warrant much more than the 'once over' outlined in my first paragraph. But, as you move into some of the more complex twins, verifying the aircraft's condition becomes increasingly important in terms of limiting your liability. Having said that, the article about the Canadian businessmen who bought a Hughes 500 (and which prompted this thread) revealed that his lack of a PPI resulted in a $200,000 hole being burned in his pocket!

Helinut: You are absolutely right!

Aegir: Grazie amico!

[Spunk]

Looks like you are taking your job serious Savoia:ok:

I'm always amazed how lightheaded grown-up business men are when it comes to buying a helicopter.

The last guy (private pilot) who bought an aircraft from us showed up with what seemed to be his former flight instructor.
By telling me about his flying skills and all of his entries in his licence he reaaaaalllyyyy impressed me :rolleyes:
He asked for the registration, radio licence etc. but didn't care about any of the maintenance papers. If we didn't present them to him they would probably still be sitting in the cabinet.
He then asked for a test flight and for a very thorough pre-flight inspection ... and forgot to check for the oil level. :ugh:

[Ready2Fly]

If you are spending 500k+ on a helicopter, why bother spending around <1% on a PPI?

And also as a seller, i always highly recommend a PPI on a helicopter -even with a fresh ARC- by an independant maintenance organisation.