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diddly squat
16th Sep 2012, 17:40
Regional Express will be conducting interviews and simulator assessments at Flight Safety’s Houston training centre on the 15.10.12 – 20.10.12 inclusive.

Applicants must be able to work in Australia. Regional Express may provide assistance to suitable persons.

USA Pilot (http://www.rex.com.au/Jobs/UsaPilot.aspx) :ok::ok::ok::ok:

Next will be India :ok::ok::ok::ok:

Aussie
16th Sep 2012, 22:44
Didnt know Aus had a Pilot shortage... :ugh:

newsensation
16th Sep 2012, 23:14
Just short of Pilots who want to work for REX i guess...

romeocharlie
16th Sep 2012, 23:43
No one will turn up, they didn't write the dates in yank format.

Flying Mechanic
17th Sep 2012, 00:10
at least they are bringing immigrants in Australia using the correct channels!!

KRUSTY 34
17th Sep 2012, 03:02
The bottom line, is that REX can employ whomever they want. In fact 6 American former SAAB captains are due to land on the doorstep this week. Somewhat fewer in number to those originally planned!:ooh:

Rumor has it the Chief Pilot no less will be personally supervising their training. Whether these pilots work out or not remains to be seen. Based on the min requirements (less SAAB command experience), I personally feel that all the trouble and expense REX have gone through, may have been better saved by recruiting locally. Unless of course you factor in the real incentive of employing people such as 457 holders and Cadets. Captive workforce!

Which of course, is what this is all about. :(

skurgler
17th Sep 2012, 03:19
Personally supervising or micro managing their training ?

Kenny
17th Sep 2012, 03:22
Once they work out how far the money doesn't go in Sydney, Barry and his boys get rid of LAFA in Oct and they're subjected to the "joy" of flying in Australia as well as our need to reinvent the aviation wheel, they'll be off.

ozbiggles
17th Sep 2012, 03:46
I'm glad you are happy to see pilots coming from a country that wouldn't let us go work in theirs...not that you would want to.

Shark Slayer
17th Sep 2012, 04:49
Must be able to swim!

Oh.....sorry, thats Pel Air, nothing to do with Rex at all!

Squawk-7600
17th Sep 2012, 05:29
The bottom line, is that REX can employ whomever they want.

Ah, no, in fact they can't. Rex would first need to be able to prove to the appropriate immigration department that no Australians were available to do this job, something I'm surprised to hear exists. Once that is done they are free to sponsor the individuals under appropriate visas. Frankly I'm surprised this one is sliding past the relevant pilot union(s), so it must simply go to prove there truly is a pilot shortage in Australia.

wrongwayaround
17th Sep 2012, 10:42
Bringing pilots in from overseas?
Wasn't the "whiz-bang" new cadet scheme meant to fix this problem?

KRUSTY 34
17th Sep 2012, 11:46
Squawk', broad brush I know, but what I meant is that REX can employ legally whomever they please, But of coarse you realise this.

The issue of 457 visas for pilots shows just how ignorant and perhaps maliable the revevant authorities are when it comes to disadvantageing local pilots, based on the spin from business! :yuk:

Squawk-7600
18th Sep 2012, 00:28
But of coarse you realise this.

You had me until this comment.

Employing foreign workers is not as easy as some may imagine. I have personal experience with this. As I said in my comments above, I'm rather surprised that the relevant union(s) have not had something to say about this. It is not at all difficult to prove that there ARE indeed suitable candidates available, and visas will not be granted. Don't believe me, ask Gina Rinehart! Unless of course the situation is that suitable pilots aren't available ...

KRUSTY 34
18th Sep 2012, 01:01
No need for angst' Squawk! Easy or not REX have jumped through the hoops (as flawed as they are), and unfortunately they are not alone.

Back in '07/'08 REX management, aided by a still politically influential board member, garnered substantial government support WRT employing foriegn pilots. The result at the time was modest (5 South Africans), but in many respects the die had been cast. As far as the union effectively opposing this practice, I think you fail to realise just how difficult this may be. That's not to say it isn't worth a shot, but lobbying aside, any sort of industrial campaign would more than likely backfire, given the number of appendages in certain pockets.

Personally, I think it may blow up in REX's face anyway. They'll pull out all stops in the inevitable efforts to save face, but the fact remains they have neither the will nor the whereforall to effectively manage their crewing issues into the future.

The most we can do at this stage is sit back, and enjoy the show. and remember Squawk', we're all on the same team! :ok:

Squawk-7600
18th Sep 2012, 01:54
The most we can do at this stage is sit back, and enjoy the show. and remember Squawk', we're all on the same team!

Correct, hence why I was a little taken back at your sarcastic comment that I quoted above. This no longer affects me one iota, nevertheless I would personally support my colleagues, but sans sarcasm thank you.

It would seem you missed my comment where I stated I have personal experience with this. It is NOT as easy as you make it out to be, and it can be blocked if the correct processes are followed.

chickoroll
18th Sep 2012, 02:06
Have you had a your Skywest interview yet Krusty?

Chimbu chuckles
18th Sep 2012, 03:41
Has the bigger picture occurred to you guys yet- that there may in fact not be enough suitable candidates?

Just because someone has an ATPL, or a CPL with subjects passed, and 1200hrs doesn't automatically make them attractive to an airline.

I hear it from management pilot mates in every airline bar QF, and only because QF are not hiring, "Chuck we have run out of A candidates and are mining the B candidates looking for suitable pilots - and not finding many". In one airline I know they suspect pretty strongly that those pilots with say 2000hrs who are not already in an airline are not 'for a reason'.

Another common complaint is 'the % of FOs who are ready for command or who have real command potential, compared to the % who THINK they have, is minuscule'.

Don't shoot the messenger boys but the above are universal sentiments. Companies don't go down the 457 visa route JUST to fck people over...it's expensive and aggravating. But if airlines have to do so to keep the aircraft flying they will...and leave the unsuitable candidates on the sidelines.

There may indeed be no 'pilot' shortage but there appears to be a real shortage of pilots with high (personal) standards and experience commensurate with age.

HF3000
18th Sep 2012, 04:06
Has the bigger picture occurred to you guys yet- that there may in fact not be enough suitable candidates?

Don't you mean:
Has the bigger picture occurred to you guys yet- that there may in fact not be enough suitable candidates at the pay and conditions on offer?

Like This - Do That
18th Sep 2012, 04:17
with high (personal) standards and experience commensurate with age

In an era when people change companies and even careers well into life (economy wide, not just aviation) is "commensurate with age" becoming unsustainable? If suitable and capable pilots with real command potential are getting scarce is the decreasing pool of people willing to join the industry at the heart of the problem? Not just 19 year olds, but folks in their forties?

Could it be that the entire industry will have to come to grips with a new career model for pilots?

Just askin' ... I certainly don't have any answers.

neville_nobody
18th Sep 2012, 04:31
Has the bigger picture occurred to you guys yet- that there may in fact not be enough suitable candidates?

Well maybe these airlines could do something constructive and actually DO SOME TRAINING!!!!

Maybe they need to up the training budget. Maybe they need to do thorough ground schools. Maybe they need to do recurrent ground schools. Maybe they need to do 4 sims a year of which two are non jeopardy training only.

The reality is that Western airlines have been spoiled for choice post WWII. They have now destroyed the golden goose and apparently it is everyone else's fault. You cannot expect people to spend 100K+ on flying training then to work for REX on 40K

China Southern and Singapore manage to run airlines with candidates that have ZERO aviation experience and they are not crashing aeroplanes everyday.

Maybe just maybe it's time airlines start rethinking about pilot recruitment and training.

Chimbu chuckles
18th Sep 2012, 04:54
No HF3000 I didn't mean that.

I too asked that question and the answer was along the lines of 'it doesn't appear $ are the main issue, there is just virtually no one left out there'.

Now I tend to agree with you that $, in the end, ARE the issue...supply and demand being what it is...but that doesn't mean extra $ offered to attract potential FOs.

Neville, agree...well mostly:ok:

Like this - do that...maybe but there are real issues with hiring older less experienced pilots and training them onto jets. Airlines tend to take the view that if you are not jet experienced by a certain age you're probably not worth the aggravation. Again that's not airline management pilots being elitist its their real world experience.

Mr.Buzzy
18th Sep 2012, 05:06
Thank Christ,
Maybe some of these new aviators will show you guys what high personal standard means.
It doesn't mean quoting the AIP verbatim, nor knowing hundreds of "nice to know" numbers. They might teach your checkers about life beyond Bankstown and Moorabbin.

Bbbbbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbbzbzbzzzzzzzzzzz

Oceanic815Pilot
18th Sep 2012, 05:08
No one will turn up, they didn't write the dates in yank format.

Even us yanks realize there isn't a 15th and 20th month in the year.

Ixixly
18th Sep 2012, 05:39
Chimbu Chuckles, From what i've been told by a few people who have left Rex one of the major issues is an incredibly toxic culture they have going on there that means that the guys with enough intelligence and motivation to be Captains see the writing on the wall and bug out.

Perhaps you're right on an Industry level, i'm certainly not experienced enough nor enough in the know to say otherwise, but specifically towards Rex, there might be a problem with them and the way they are running things that is behind their lack of suitable applicants and their current predicament?

Keg
18th Sep 2012, 07:56
If Rex state that they require people with a Saab 340 endorsement and 2000 command on type they're not going to get many local applicants are they- particularly at the money on offer. Hence it's probably not too hard to demonstrate a lack of suitably qualified local applicants. :( :suspect:

Roger Greendeck
18th Sep 2012, 09:16
The pool of suitable candidates may be drying up but it is not disappeared. I personally know a pilot offered a captain position who did not take it on financial grounds and I know more than a few who are in the market who have not applied because of the pay and conditions.

This raises the sticky issue that the Government will not confront, when is the lack of suitable applicants within a companies responsibility to fix? By hiring offshore when there are suitable candidates available to work , but for more than a company wants to offer, then those overseas recruits are being used to drive down conditions.

Perhaps it is time for the Goverment to step in and fix the market failure or step back and let market forces work and make companies pay the going rate for services.

Cost Index
18th Sep 2012, 10:36
China Southern and Singapore manage to run airlines with candidates that have ZERO aviation experience and they are not crashing aeroplanes everyday.
Correct, It's every other day :E :}

In all seriousness, The US is going down the tube, some pilots are even on food stamps.. "Sunshine, Aussie women, beaches, more relaxed lifestyle, for 40k+?? I'll take it!! " :sad:

Even us yanks realize there isn't a 15th and 20th month in the year. They'll need a sense of humour to fit in though... :ok: ;)

Squawk-7600
18th Sep 2012, 11:22
All good points raised by people here. However this point echoed what I was attempting to emphasise

Companies don't go down the 457 visa route JUST to fck people over...it's expensive and aggravating.

Correct, on both grounds.

crwjerk
18th Sep 2012, 14:46
Unionized shovel holders earn 100k++ in Australia, what a joke to offer 40k to a "professional"..

KRviator
18th Sep 2012, 21:55
When train drivers can earn more than triple what a Rex Captain does it says a lot about the company and the downwards trend in pay and conditions in Aviation in general.

Toruk Macto
18th Sep 2012, 22:03
It says young people are making becoming a pilot a life style choice in preference to financial security .

Ultralights
18th Sep 2012, 22:33
from the outside looking in, i know of 3 Ex Rex guys who were due for command, but left due to the toxic culture, "im sick of being treated like shite"
also, in my own experience, at the end of a phone interview, "you sound great, but with over 1000 hrs command, you have to much experience for us" i still laugh about it to this day, though after reading through the terms and conditions after applying for a second time, there is no way im taking a 60% pay cut, and declined the offer...

sad thing is, i have no aspirations to get into the big shiney automatic jet. and regional flying is what i love best, and now aeros..

im sure my situation is Not unique....

tarmac12
18th Sep 2012, 23:14
A previous poster commented before that senior captains and trainers have the belief that if you have 2000 hours and aren't in a good company by now then your not worth it. What a load of rubbish! This is based on the fact that most half decent companies list 1500 hours as the minimum with 500 multi command. What happens in the 500 hours between 1500 and 2000? Do you all of a sudden become unattractive and useless?

It makes me laugh that REX complain they have no upgradable FO's as they are all below standard. Hang on, YOU RECRUITED THEM! What were you all doing during the interview when so called non upgradable candidates were being questioned on their ability to handle emergencies etc? It also makes me wonder how well they did on the sim ride. They did all pass a sim ride these so called useless FO's didn't they? What happened since then? Have they all attracted a case of cant fly the plane itis?

What this is really about is Rex not being able to retain anyone half decent due to the very poor package on offer coupled with the so called toxic culture. If the so called shortage of experience were true then why does Network and Qlink and Skytrans etc have no problem finding and retaining upgradable FO's?

Squawk-7600
18th Sep 2012, 23:44
Once again, all good points. So who is representing the majority of the pilots there these days and what do they have to say about it? People can bitch and moan on bulletin boards until they're blue in the face, but nothing will change until some weight is put behind the complaints.

MACH082
19th Sep 2012, 02:40
The bottom line is its not really about pay & conditions although they do equate somewhat.

Being a SF340 Pilot isn't a bad gig, but the skills are not very portable. Most guys take the pay cut and head on t the majors expecting to be treated poorly, but knowing that the skills are portable.

You can just about go anywhere and fly a Boeing or an Airbus and earn pretty decent money. The wider world is screaming for guys with 50 tonne + modern glass airliner experience.

If you're prepared to live in a shithole, there is some pretty decent money out there.

To me being experienced on the Airbus is about as financially secure as you can get in this industry.

It's a tad harder with light turboprop experience.

A_Vinculo_Terrae
19th Sep 2012, 02:43
I heard a recent interesting ad for a group called "Hire-A-Hubby" who provide handyman/DIY style assistance. Interestingly they offer "$100K income guarantee on selected franchise packages." Now obviously the key word is "selected" but even still, it seems that whilst having a trade is desirable, it's not a requirement of employment/opening a franchise - in fact the radio ad says all you have to be is "good at fixing things or good with your hands."

It's no wonder that airlines paying $40k base salary are struggling to retain pilots or even recruit pilots in the first place when options like these exist and whilst "big shiny jet syndrome" may have been the factor a few years ago, Rex has seen at least half a dozen captains (some senior) move over to the Virgin/Skywest operation. The DJ/XR operation has been debated to death in other threads, however it's clear that the pilots who make that step aren't chasing shiny jets, they're the ones that you would be likely to keep under the right circumstances, the ones that want to fly regional operations and be home every second night, but are looking for something better to serve out a career with.

As many have alluded to, it would appear the atmosphere and culture is the biggest problem facing them at the moment. Two senior Captains have recently resigned (and there are plenty older than them who are still around, so clearly retirement wasn't necessarily the overriding factor there!!)

As Krusty34 said, despite the money being spent to entice American pilots over here, it's not going to fix the problem as pilots (direct entry and cadets) continue to walk out the door - perhaps the reason the EBA got voted in. People aren't concerned with what happens with pay as they have plans to vacate their position at the earliest possible opportunity with high numbers on hold files for Virgin, Jetstar, Skywest and Cathay!

B772
19th Sep 2012, 11:02
With lots of unemployed pilots in the U.S I guess it had to happen.