Commercial LAME to GA.

[nelbhoy]

Hi guys,
Looking for a bit of info. Has anybody switched from jet maintenance to piston engined maint? I'm an avionic LAME with a possible job offer on GA aircraft. To be honest I am extremely excited by it. I know the money may be less, but the thought of working for a relatively small family business as opposed to a soulless commercial carrier really appeals.
Is it a huge difference in type of work? How exactly do you get to the point of holding a GA CRS? Does every aircraft have individual courses?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

[baron_beeza]

You may want to consider moving the post to another Board.

While this is for questions of this sort it is also for Australasian readers more.

I did see a UK address, are you in Europe or down here ?

It will make a big difference as the answers will really be coming from the local regulator. The system in NZ would be more user friendly than the others, - followed by Aussie. The UK has one of the more cumbersome systems.


The other thing is that the mentality is often different between military, Airline and GA.

In the airline industry the cost doesn't really come into it, it is all about speed of repair.
GA is often the opposite. The private owners in particular will wait a week if they can save a thousand dollars.
And the military... hmmm, - well.

I have worked in all three. Indeed in all three areas in many countries.
Many airline guys just can't hack it in the GA environment. You have to make your own support facilities, often chasing publications, stores and generally often having to come up with solutions.

Then again there is GA and often a more airline style of GA. I find a lot more variation across the board but the thinking and work is much the same.

For the smaller aircraft you will not be required to be rated on individual types. Often the regulator groups them into complexity of systems. DC aircraft for example may be one Group. Same with Nav systems, and other avionics.

I am of the blackhand trades so am not that familiar with the Group ratings of the various countries. It will all be on the CAA website though.

If the fleet is medium sized turbo-prop then you may not notice too much of a difference. You did mention piston engined though so depending on the size of work and client then it could be a whole new world.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Sure, give it a shot! It will make you appreciate the "soulless commercial business" even more.

Being a number is nice!

Bbbbzbbzzbbzbzbzzzbzbbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzzzzzz

[blackhand]

Is it a huge difference in type of work? How exactly do you get to the point of holding a GA CRS? All depends how good your base trade skills are, think about an AH wandering around and having to repair the whole suck system, finding four butt splices in 20 inches of wiring.
CRS probably not for avionics on GA aircraft in small MRO, you will be doing on aircraft maintenance.
If required the MRO has procedures for approving personell for Component Release to Service. A LAME that has certified in any category of a periodic inspection can coordinate and issue a MR after that periodic inspection.
If you are holding type ratings for jet aircraft you probably already have the basics required for GA aircraft upto King Air and such like.
Besides that, there is a real shortage of "ninja" GA greenhands, contract maintenance will pay far more.

[nelbhoy]

@Baron. I am in the UK, but moving to Australia. I have already contacted CASA with regard to transferring my EASA licenses (A, B1 Lim 10 & 11, B2 and C) and have to sit the AA exam only. From your answer Baron does this mean that if I hold a type rated CASA license then I can work on any aircraft below 5700kg?
@blackhand. Does this mean I can't hold a CRS for smaller aircraft, even though I hold it for B777, B737, and A320? Seems strange! And what the hell is a green/blackhhand anyway:confused:
I'm guessing avionic/mecomical engineer:rolleyes:
@Mr Buzzy I've been a number for 23 years. It's crap.

[baron_beeza]

Holding an appropriate licence with ratings is only half the job.

You need to have the applicable knowledge and tools etc to be able to work on, and certify, these smaller aircraft.
While many do not have type courses per sè, you would be expected to have read the Service Manual and Service Bulletins applicable to the aircraft you are certifying. You have to have a working knowledge of the type and it's systems.
It would be dangerous and foolhardy to do otherwise. You will get lots of pressure from the employer that will take some effort also.

Some employers will set you up big time. You have to be very careful especially if you are unsure of the rules and specifics of the job. Many of these companies have real problems attracting staff.... there really are genuine reasons for that.

OOooops

I have just re-read your original post..

working for a relatively small family business


I am sure everyone reading this will know exactly who you are talking about.

It will be in country WA right ?

This thread is about to go off on a tangent !!!!

[nelbhoy]

Cheers for getting back so quick Baron. No' it's NSW not WA.
Thanks for the warnings. So there are no courses/exams to sit? CASA just hope that the LAME's conscientious enough to read up on the aircraft?
It would be fair to say I would face a rather steep learning curve would it not?

[baron_beeza]

CASA just hope that the LAME's conscientious enough to read up on the aircraft?
I am not sure that is how it works. They assume a LAME has more regard for his licence than risk losing it over someone else's aircraft.

All said and done CASA are probably doing all in their power to prosecute you and remove that licence.

No top cover here, no union.... just you versus the big boys. You get to wear it from the Employer, the customer and CASA.
Making a mistake will be seen as a crime, lacking the aircraft technical knowledge will not be seen as an excuse.

GA aircraft crash much more than their airline counterparts. The pilots have very little experience and you can rely on them to do their best to drop you in it as well.

It really is a fun way of life.

[Propstop]

Nelbhoy, you will find switching from airlines to GA is like doing another apprenticeship as there is so much you will have to learn and relearn.
As other posters have warned you CASA is not at all user friendly.
The regs are written as criminal law and all work signed for is in breach of some obscure clause, and at CASA's whim you can be declared not fit and proper person and you have no recourse.
That being said it is ultimately a more satisfying sector of aviation as I switched over more than 30+ years ago. I am a blackhand with conehead endorsements.
Once you have had time to suss out the local scene I suggest you set up as a contractor as there is a lot of varied work around.

[terminus mos]

You might want to try the two large helicopter operators, Bristow and CHC in Australia. They have resident and touring positions in WA, NSW and Vic. It maybe an easier transition for you coming from an airline environment than going to a small GA outfit. GA familiy businesses are not always the greatest places to work. Not sure if the helicopter operators are hiring but they are generally always looking for Avionic Engineers.

[baron_beeza]

Yes, the helicopter idea is certainly sound. Many advantages there, an easier cockpit environment as well as procedures more akin to the airline way of doing business.

I think Nelbhoy may have dodged a bullet when he mentioned NSW though.

The wording sounded all too familiar otherwise ...

These all came through my email system about 3 weeks ago.

Chief Engineer
Western Australia | Negotiable | Permanent Full Time
Chief Engineer required for Rural WA company. Outstanding award for right LAME with team management skills.
Chief Engineer - Broome location position - Aviation Chief Engineer jobs in Western Australia - MACRO Specialist Recruitment (http://www.macrorecruitment.com.au/apply/index.php?jref=10862&tadv=6)


Avionics LAME - Broome Location - General Aviation
Western Australia | | Permanent Full Time
Avionics LAME - Broome WA location - General Aviation
Avionics LAME - Broome Location - General Aviation position - Aviation 2 jobs in Western Australia - MACRO Specialist Recruitment (http://www.macrorecruitment.com.au/apply/index.php?jref=11291&tadv=6)

Chief Pilot - Broome
Western Australia Permanent Full Time
Chief Pilot required for Rural WA company. Outstanding opportunity for the right candidate with team management skills.


My client is a regional carrier and charter company that has stood the test of time and hardships that have folded the competition. Why? Because their employees are IMPORTANT to them!

Based in rural WA, this family owned business is offering a prime management role to a suitable Chief Pilot candidate.

[blackhand]

Does this mean I can't hold a CRS for smaller aircraft, even though I hold it for B777, B737, and A320? Seems strange! And what the hell is a green/blackhhand anywayhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif


What you are calling CRS is Issue Maintenance Release for class B aircraft.
Carried out under CAR 43, and certified under CAR 42ZE for a CAR 30 Organisation.

Greenhand = Conehead = Boffin = Avionics

@baron Beeza, spoke with the WA company 12 months ago, they think 90K is top money for Broome. May get a junior LAME for that.
In my experience, CASA are fairly lenient on LAMEs in the GA field. Don't fcku up twice though!!

[Hasherucf]

spoke with the WA company 12 months ago, they think 90K is top money for Broome.

That pay is a joke as everyone else on the field is getting much more than that . There is a reason why the position is still open. Also the "Beech 1900 licence" is a joke as that company has been looking at getting 1900's for years. Maybe it's some carrot dangling.

As for everything said here about GA avionics it's about right. I especially like this part which is so true:
Many airline guys just can't hack it in the GA environment. You have to make your own support facilities, often chasing publications, stores and generally often having to come up with solutions.


Expect to have no wiring diagrams , avionic tools , test equipment or manuals for a fleet of 1970's avionics . You wonder why they cant attract people ??

[blackhand]

Expect to have no wiring diagrams , avionic tools , test equipment or manuals for a fleet of 1970's avionics .
Maybe ten years ago this was true, not so much now. CASA AWIs are pushing hard to get smaller CAR 30 organisations to comply with all requirements of CAR 30 maintenance.

[baron_beeza]

In many smaller GA facilities the LAME is often doing the Tech Control function, the stores, the library, looking after ground equipment and specialist tooling as well as a variety of other tasks. I think it is the jack of all trades mentality and variety that gives the job it's satisfaction.

Some of the actual work on the aircraft and the systems will be very similar. Many avionics units operate the same no matter what size aircraft they are fitted to.
In the smaller hangars the conehead would be doing a certain amount of blackhand work as well, the trade boundaries are far from black and white. Even if just helping with some riveting or paint stripping or whatever the activity of the day is.

The difference will be in the working environment, a GA LAME is far from just another number.

The trick is to choose the right location and employer. Hmmm, perhaps it is to avoid certain places.
Some companies are much easier to work for than others.

[nelbhoy]

Hi guys, I'm re-visiting this topic as I have been recently back in touch with the GA company after a bit of a breakdown in discussions about T&C's (all on good terms).
I just want to verify that my understanding is correct. First thing I do after arriving in OZ is sit the AA exam and convert my EASA tickets to CASA (B777, A320, B737). This I know after emailing CASA. I'm good with this.
To work on GA aircraft I would then need to sit group exams, not specific aircraft types as is done on a/c above 5700kg. Is this correct?

[abledog]

Sorry to say this, but Stay the hell out of GA if you know whats good for you. Its absolute crap in every way. A dreadful industry....I left the Airforce and went there ..what a HUGE mistake...I miss the airforce so much....