Problem: Self-financing an Irish person. (No mortgages)

[niallcooney]

Guys,

I've run into a problem. I'm doing my training slowly, I'm just starting my PPL, aiming for the RHS of a jet in the future. I'd like to get a loan and finance the whole thing in a package (not nessecarily in Ireland), but the Irish banks were never too friendly and the UK banks don't seem to want to help either. My parents won't offer their house as security (not surprising), and I don't have any collateral myself, although I have an IT job at the moment, and I don't have a bad credit rating. Any suggestions (other then wisecracks about winning the lottery) would be greatly appreciated. I'd especially like to hear Irish pilots' point of view on this. Yes I do have a class 1 JAA medical, and yes I've gone to do the GAPAN tests (average result). And no, nothing short of nuclear war will stop me.

Thanks guys,
Niall Cooney

[touch&go]

Sorry for being a bit harsh, but if you own family won’t take a risk with there own flesh and blood why should the banks?

I would get your head down at work and save a good chunk of the money yourself, there is no rush at the moment, so another year or so before you start training would be good advice, and in the end less money to repay.

:cool:

[p.savage]

Hi.

I am having the very same problem. I am currently doing A levels at College and I am very unhappy. I want to leave college and pursue a flying career. BUT WITH WHAT MONEY- NONE! I am 17 and have wanted to fly all my life and I have my PPL. My folks aren't the supportive type, one minute when they are in a good mood they tell me they have faith in me and will loan the money all £54,000 to go to BAe in Jerez. The next they are telling me tha
t im being stupid about a flying career and they cannot give me the money. First of all I have always said that I would pay it all back. All of it. So I dont know wheither I am coming or going. I have faith in myself and the only way that I am going to get into the RHS is by a lot of hard work. I think that is the answer to a lot of things in life. Its unfair. Heres some advice. Never ever go to your parents for advice or money lending. They will only destroy your dream, over and over.

Well, good luck!

[steveoxo]

try barclays career development loan, upto 8k, no repayments for upto 3 years, low interest rate. that particular depts. office is in liverpool. tel. 0845 6090060. hope they can help.

[blueb0y79]

I'm in the same boat. I'm currently doing my PPL in Shoreham on the south coast of England and need some advise. I would also like to attend a school where i am 100% sure that it will be of benefit to me. AND THAT MEANS MONEY! Obviously good scholls don't come cheap (and i too believe that you get what you pay for) My parents are not rich so they cannot give me alot of money and i am not a homeowner. It's driving me crazy always trying to find a school that will take me from my PPL to ATPL as cheaply as possible. I have been looking at schools in Orlando, South Africa and i'm so desperate, even 'n the Czech Republic recently.

So please stop being sarcastic about people like us needing some help. THIS IS OUR FUTURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT TO US. Most of you guys have been through exactly the same thing and we could all benefit from your advise and experiences. :rolleyes:

So please post any messages that you think could be a help to us, no matter whether you think they are of little importance or not.

blueb0y79
(who WILL become a good pilot WITH or WITHOUT you)

[Lil'KiwiPaddy]

Hi Niall,

I know all to well the look that Irish bank managers give you when you tell them you want to borrow tens of thousands of pounds to learn to fly....believe me mate been there.

To be perfectly honest I don't think theres much chance of any bank lending you the whole amount without security. I offered my house as security and it still took some persuading.

When I first started out I used the Credit Union. I took out a loan for my PPL of $6k then worked like mad to pay it back. When it came time to pay for my uni course, they saw how quickly I had paid back my previous loan and had no probs giving me another loan of $12k, so maybe that might work for you.

Hope that helps.

LKP

[Anti Skid On]

See my post about how it works here in NZ - although you'd have to figure out a way of getting residency first (and the residency thing is odd - if you are young you get loads of points for age, and little if your old, but the opposite for work experience, and you need 10 I think for work experience, which would mean at least 5 years in another career that would get you in)

[FRIDAY]

Niall
Here's my advice DO NOT look to get a loan to pay for your training, as already said there is no rush, work two jobs if you have to but save like your life depended on it. Why bother finishing training only to find you cannot exercise your flying priviledge due to the fact you have a hefty loan to pay back and Mc Donalds is the way out. You want to finance an instructors rating or hour building or generally hang around the airfield waiting for that right place- right time lark, the last thing on your mind while trying to secure employment is a loan.

Good luck FRIDAY:)

[FL395]

Hiya Niall
well i can't for the life of me see why your parents should
put up their house for you.
Get off your ass and work 2 jobs as was suggested
and do it.
I did and am now looking for a job.
IF it's really what you want to do then you will find a
way, you are going to be a professional pilot some day
so don't wait to be spoon fed.....get working and on your days
off go fly and study.
It's not rocket science......get a loan to do your PPL then pay it
off and then use the fact that you are a proven saver and repayer to get the next loan.
Come on do you really need people to tell you this
Your parents have worked hard for themselves so leave
them alone and prove you can do it yourself.
I have and it's all the more worth while when you sit
back and know that every red penny went into it.

[niallcooney]

I did say I understand why my parents won't help. Even with some sort of mortgage it would be incrediby difficult anyway. Looks like I'm off to the US to do my PPL!

[FL395]

Hey Niall
okay sorry to be so harsh....but don't go to the US to do your PPL
your hours won't count when you come back you need to do them in a JAR approved State in order for them to be used in Europe....if ya want to fly here that is.
South Africa , the States are all cheap but they are not JAR states so your hours won't qualify....
The only place i know of in the US that is a JAR FTO is IFTA in Stuart Florida...but i'd watch what money you spend down there
Also you will need to get "IN WRITING" from the JAA..not the IAA that the hours you do there will count when you get back otherwise you are just pissing money away.....
If you want to get hired in the US remember the amount of pilots out there and also you will need a 4yr approved college degree in order to be accepted by any of the majors as well as 4000hrs minimum....and that was when times were good.....
check before you make a rash decision.....if you are going to be short of cash then make sure you get the MOST for your money
:)

[FRIDAY]

Sorry to contradict you there FL395 but your hours will count, and there is more then one place that can supply you over there, how do you think those people who choose the modular route for example with cabair are allowed to go over to oft florida and get ppl imc night etc and 150 hrs and then come back to continue training. There is a couple of schools that will train you under jaa standards and issue you with a jaa license in the states so go right ahead.

Unless I am completely wrong in which case I am open to criticism.

[Lil'KiwiPaddy]

Think you've got it wrong 395.

The hours you do will count, the licences won't.

[BillyFish2]

Lil'KiwiPaddy and FRIDAY are correct,

The hours do count - it's the licenses that are the problem. I have been given credit by BAE Systems in Jerez for the hours I have logged (90+ in S.A., 5 in U.S. and 5 in Ireland) for the integrated course I'm about to start. The credit runs up to 35 hours solo or 20 with instructor in single engine. What this means is if I am judged competent, I may not have to do up to 35 of the scheduled solo hours or 20 of the scheduled dual instruction hours. Not saying this is going to happen (as I'm as rusty as hell) but as all this is going towards a JAA fATPL, the hours I have obviously count.

I fully believe BAe know their JAR's.

The upshot - I think you can build hours wherever you like, but not licenses - that is the minefield.

[FL395]

Hey thanks for the hours update
i was not trying to mislead i am finished all this Thank Crunchie
but have a friend back from the USA with a CPL MEIR and about 250hrs.
My friend is trying to convert to a JAR CPL and went to the IAA who told her that his hours wouldn't count and he'd have to do the 55IR hours again and his multi time doesn't count.
So presumably it does then??????
Can billyfish/Paddy/Lilkiwi then please tell me what i should advise him to do......
Is there a back door via Italy??? or is Jerez the way to go.

you see the IAA line is that any hours done" towards the grant of a licence ie IR or Multi will not count if done outside of a JAR state"
So if this is the case how do the hours done in SA or US count then.....towards the grant of a licence.....obviously hours are hours on a log book....but towards the grant of a licence?????

Has anyone talked to the IAA or are y'all just by passing them and going to the CAA

Friday where can one find those other JAA approved FTOs in the US??? I've checked the JAA web site but can't find a thing
Thanks

[FL395]

FRIDAY
just one last thing in a post i said that "as far as i know the only JAR school was IFTA".....i didn't say it WAS the only school.
Just know of a few paddys who went down there....
i would presume there are others....but just giving the little bit of info that I had.....alrighte....:D :D :D :D

[Lil'KiwiPaddy]

Hi 395,

This may get confusing so I apologise in advance.

To the best of my knowledge, all or the training for a JAA CPL or IR has to be conducted in a JAA member state, that is why your friend cannot convert their IR gained in the US, even though they've undergone IR training already. So you can use countries like th US and South Africa to gain cheap time for the CPL modular requirements (150hrs), but no there are no shortcuts in terms of converting licences.

For instance if I try and convert a NZ CPL/IR in Eurpoe I would have to sit all 14 ATPL exams, undergo a CPL skills test and 55hrs training and examination for the IR which would cost more than my CPL/IR cost in the first place!

Thats my understanding of the situaton, if anyone can add to it or correct me please do.

Hope that helps

LKP
:D


(edited for spellinz!!)