AFAP Jobs page

[propelled]

Just noticed this page is now locked and viewable to members only..
must have happened this week?
what will all the paying sponsors of the page think about it when the amount of page views will drop considerably? (just guessing)
at the end of the day, it is their website and they can do what they want. I wont be joining just to access that page though..

[wishiwasupthere]

It seems to change. Last week it was for members only for a day or so, then back to normal. Noticed today that it's back to members only.

[josephfeatherweight]

Bugger. Membership is pretty steep (1% of your income) just to check out a few job ads, many of which are something like "VFR fish spotter wanted" etc...

[training wheels]

Didn't they get most of their job ads from the The Australian newspaper anyway? I'm sure someone else can easily do that if they have their own website. I remember a pprune user (Windshear?) used to post job ads here until he was stopped by the mods for 'advertising'.

[havick]

they are retards.. Do they not realise that companies won't bother advertising with them as now the ads won't be viewed by the majority of pilots.

[Kelly Slater]

Bring back Windy.

[gofish]

Maybe someone should start a petition to get access to the job page for non members. They are hurting the people who need work. I certainly cant offered 1% for wage nor the cost for a non flying pilot. I wil not join to access job page. Yes could check out the Australian I agree bring back windy.:oh::ugh:

[seneca208]

Page works fine for me now, and I am not a member. Maybe just having some website issues?

[propelled]

Yeah u would think they would keep it open for all to see, and to keep their advertisers happy..
Maybe was just a website glitch, or perhaps testing the waters?

[Roj approved]

Maybe you guys could join up, the AFAP offers a lot more than just a rehashed jobs page.

It is a registered industrial Union, it is only as strong as it's members, and the 1% is tax deductible, so really it costs you stuff all, and you can ring them anytime and ask questions related to your pay, super, hell there is even Loss of License insurance!!:ok:

I am constantly surprised by the amount of pilots with families and mortgages that don't have any form of LOL or income protection. :ugh:

Give them a call, you may be pleasantly surprised at the services they offer that may be of use to you some day.

For example: your dodgy boss isn't paying your super, or is underpaying you, doesn't stump up for overnights, or didn't do the maintenance correctly and now the gear collapsed and they are trying to pin it on you. It could be anything.

All you anti AFAP people, please just let these folk decide for themselves, or offer them another option for industrial advice/protection. (VIPA? AIPA? TWU?, not sure if they have non airline members)

If you still think it is a waste of time to join, no problem, go buy the paper ever friday:}

You will also get an "Entertainment Card", Entertainment Book - your local dining and activity guide (http://www.entertainmentbook.com.au) it gives you discounts at pubs, hotels, movies and you become a member of Union shopper, https://www.unionshopper.com.au which has really good discounts on white goods and home appliances. If you use these wisely, you could recoup the 1% easily in one year:ok:

[LexAir]

Well said ROJ!

I just checked out the page and it unrestricted at present.

[Josh Cox]

Works fine for me, and I'm not logged in on this Computer.

they are retardsReally Havick,

It's their website, if they locked it, which they haven't, why should you care ?.

Membership, for most, is marginally dearer than what it would cost you to drive to the News Agent and buy the Australian Newspaper each and every Friday.

I bet if you have an accident or incident in an aircraft, News Limited would not provide you free representation or access to Loss of Licence Insurance.

Join or don't join, your choice. I do not resent you for exercising your right of choice, why resent us for exercising ours ?.

The more divided we pilots are, benefits who exactly ?.

[Volumex]

It was locked when he posted - it isn't now.

[propelled]

am not pro or against joining the afap.. have only recently gained my CPL, and no doubt will be something for me to consider once im employed as a pilot..
in the meantime, hope they keep the page open for good...

[Power]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned, but you can join for "free" until employed as an ab-initio member. When you get a job, you let them know and start paying fees.

[j3pipercub]

Bunch of farking whinging pissants

[Ozzie Mozzie]

On the topic of the jobs page, I noticed Vincent have advertised for 146 drivers out of Exmouth and the minimums state a NZ licence and medical.

Maybe it's just a typo or because they seem to be recruiting out of the NZ office but it seems odd to state specifically NZ licence to work in Aus.

(And I know the CAA can recognise CASA licences and vice versa, before someone jumps on me for that one)

[Aimpoint]

You'll all whine about the union and won't join, but then expect them to go in to bat for you when it is EBA time...

[seneca208]

On the topic of the jobs page, I noticed Vincent have advertised for 146 drivers out of Exmouth and the minimums state a NZ licence and medical.

Maybe it's just a typo or because they seem to be recruiting out of the NZ office but it seems odd to state specifically NZ licence to work in Aus.

(And I know the CAA can recognise CASA licences and vice versa, before someone jumps on me for that one)

Vincent's 146 is ZK registered, which most likely requires them to be crewed by NZ licenced pilots.

[Di_Vosh]

You'll all whine about the union and won't join, but then expect them to go in to bat for you when it is EBA time...

+1

Furthermore,

You'll all whine about the union and won't join, but then expect them to provide you with a free job advertising service. :yuk:

DIVOSH!

[propelled]

haha.. some of u guys are blowing up over nothing really..

all i did was report in on what i noticed on the afap jobs page when it was locked this morning..
i have no need to join afap at the moment, so was simply saying i hope it remains a resource for guys like me until i score a job..
when i do, i most likely will join because of the benefits such membership provides its members as mentioned above..

j3pipercub, thanks for your contribution to the discussion..

[Hugh Jarse]

To all you whingers complaining about the employment page being locked up:

Don't be such a bunch of tightarses!! The AFAP owes you nothing if you're not a member.

Personally, I'm glad it's been locked. It's about time you freeloaders put your hands in your pocket and gave something back to the organisation.

On second thoughts, you're probably even too tight to spend a couple of bucks on a Friday Australian, that would be asking too much. :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Di_Vosh]

propelled

Sadly, your post was typical of the 'social media' generation.

You saw that the webpage had changed. Instead of ringing the AFAP and asking "What's going on with that?", you post what you noticed on Prune, and make comments on how you feel about it.

In other words, rather than try to do anything to fix a problem you've noticed, you would prefer to go onto the internet and tell everyone how you feel about it.

DIVOSH!

[Di_Vosh]

CP, that wasn't very nice. I'm trying to lose weight! :ouch:

DIVOSH!

[propelled]

Sorry to offend Guys! Omg touchy subject

[Hugh Jarse]

I wont be joining just to access that page though..

Sounds like a whinge to me.:ok:

[propelled]

Personally though, why not keep it open, especially for the newbies out there..?
Afap is getting presumably good revenue from the advertising due to page views etc, and is gaining goodwill from the pilot community- whether member or not. Hell its free advertising for afap also and am sure if scored a job thru looking at their website, id be more inclined to investigate more into joining. Thats my view anyway, u guys got urs, so all good.
Time for a beer isnt it?
Cheers

[propelled]

HughJ, yeh it probably came across that way but not intended. What was trying to get at is that i have no interest in joining until im employed, and it will be for the other reasons and not just to access a jobs page.

[VH-XXX]

It's their website, if they locked it, which they haven't, why should you care ?.


Seems we have a gap....

(this was at 6pm'ish Thursday night AEST)


http://www.afap.org.au/html/images/trans.gifTo access further information on our website, you must be an AFAP member.

If you are an AFAP member, please login using the login button below which will bring up a dialogue box. You may then enter your username and password. If you have forgotten your username and password you can send an email from the login dialogue box and details to login will be emailed immediately.
If you wish to join the Federation, please contact the office on ph: (03) 9928 5737 email: [email protected] or click on the link below:


Application Form - click here (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s02_article/default.asp?nav_cat_id=116&nav_top_id=50)

[the_rookie]

Vh-xxx
Seems to lock and unlock every couple of hours

[propelled]

Might call them up in the morning to ask wtf? as per previous suggestions ;)

[j3pipercub]

Union Heavy here

j3pipercub, thanks for your contribution to the discussion

No worries pissant, I've met scores like you, the old "what has the union done for me", "I might join after the negotiations", "I can get better loss of license elsewhere" "I can't afford the 1% right now (after showing me his flash new car)" blah blah blah. You're all the same, all talk, no substance. When it comes time for EBA negotiations time or interpretting a phrase in the EBA, you all want someone with an IR background (that the AFAP provides), but outside that time, it's the f*ck you Jack mentality.

j3

[propelled]

j3, little pissant here.

u must get cheap thrills on here to label someone a pissant etc. Have i been offensive to anyone except expressing a view?
As I've said in previous posts, was just reporting something to the pprune community with a little commentary.
I'm sure my view is just as worthy as yours or anyone elses? obviously not to some.

cheers

[Aurukun Dreaming]

Jesus there are some right knobs on here.

How many of you were in the afap before you had your CPL?

Propelled, don't listen to them.....

[archangel7]

They will lose a lot of potential members by shutting down the Job spectrum and leaving it to the members only. It actually helped me find my first job and then I was able to join the afap as a member and I have been a member since.Afap has been there for me since the beginning and I was quiet happy to give back after I was successful in the industry. I feel for the younger pilots who have no idea where to look or what to do. I would be annoyed too.

[squarebear]

A company website is a relative cheap way to advertise, and drawing prospective customers to the sellers website brings people to the product.

Undoubtedly a reason exists for the change,..perhaps the print media are pissed due to replication of their ads, or....etc, etc. (Maybe even a glitch in the system?).

Whatever, the AFAP should advise as to the why the change has occurred. Nothing gets people offside more than than a change of policy without information. And those offside people are prospective AFAP members!

If it is new policy to lock-out non-members from the "job site" I offer my disagreement vote.


Disclaimer: paid up member AFAP & MMFB (btw couldn't access the job site without my password)

[j3pipercub]

AD
He has his CPL and to answer your question I was a paid member of the AFAP 5 days after my CPL was issued.

propelled,

It is your very views that are offensive to me. The freeloading, something for nothing mentality that you seem to express throughout your posts.

I wont be joining just to access that page though..

i have no need to join afap at the moment, so was simply saying i hope it remains a resource for guys like me until i score a job..
Why should my membership fees help you find a job?

gaining goodwill from the pilot community- whether member or not.

Goodwill? Why? Where does that get you?

Hell its free advertising for afap also and am sure if scored a job thru looking at their website, id be more inclined to investigate more into joining.

But haven't said you'd definitely join, but you'd DEFINITELY investigate it more. As I said, your mentality is just like the rest.

Finally, I don't get cheap thrills calling you a pissant, but if the shoe fits...

Prove me wrong, download the membership form and JOIN. Ab initio membership is FREE and Unemployed membership is $77 a year. I will call anyone a liar who tells me they cannot afford that poultry amount for membership.

Back to the picket line

j3

[propelled]

'little pissant' here again,

if you take offence to what I have said, then good luck to you in social settings and workplaces! and you look so unprofessional in your replies to my 'offensive remarks'

no way will i ring up to join them just to please you.

As I've said earlier, I will only join them if I feel the need to at a later date.
But as other members have now suggested, they are quite possibly shooting themselves in the foot to drive memberships, etc, if this will be locked to non-members.
I don't mind either way, still have the paper to read, and contacts out there in the big bad world..
no need to act like a tosser about things buddy!
waiting for a thread lock, maybe its entertainment, not much on tv tonight until footy show..
will be my last reply on the matter anyway. I accept your view on it, you cant accept mine, understood.
cheers

[squarebear]

J3piperclub

We are only talking about a small part of the website showing jobs FFS.

[VH-XXX]

Alternatively you could just wait for the Australian jobs section on Saturday and see them all for free like most people that read them!

[j3pipercub]

True, and we are only talking about $77

And propelled, pot meet kettle there mate

J3

[remoak]

Two problems with this - quite a few Kiwi and other Asia Pacific companies have advertised for crew on AFAP, which makes sense when you think regionally. However as a Kiwi, there is no way I'm going to join AFAP at this juncture just to see job ads. NZALPA maybe... but only maybe. And I'm not anti-union either, having been in one for 20 years.

Second problem is that nobody outside Oz is going to advertise with them now, which is, I suppose, a loss to us all.

AFAP would be doing themselves a big favour if they just left it the way it was. They are unlikely to make much money out of people signing up to see the ads, and anything they make will be offset by the loss of advertising revenue.

Just a little bit silly...

[squarebear]

V-XXX

Therein lays the argument, doesn't it.

So all job seeker's can access the Saturdays Aussie, rather than our AFAP website.

"Subscribe to the Aussie, you may never have a reason to look at the AFAP website again!"

[dwillfly]

:ok::ok::ok:

[VH-XXX]

However as a Kiwi, there is no way I'm going to join AFAP at this juncture just to see job ads.

And........ the problem with that is? :oh:

[rmcdonal]

Seems like a big fuss for what appears to be a minor technical issue with the website, particularly a website that provides a free content in this case.

As for the should I join or not group, Union membership has plenty of benefits for a small tax deductible fee that varies with pay and employment status. It is always your decision to join or not, however considering the cost vs benefit ratio it is always my strong advice to join.
Access to the MBF is by far the best value for money out there. Show me a loss of licence insurance that compares to the MBF, particularly for a young junior pilot and I will buy you a beer. If you stay with them for your career (and in most cases the costs are covered in your EBA) then they give you your money back when you retire. Yes all of it. If you join at 20 you are looking at a lump sum of $40K+ into your retirement drinking fund.
Or if god forbid you prang an aircraft not only well the AFAP jump in and protect you from the dodgy operator who is blaming you for the engine failure, but the MBF will be covering your loss of medical with a payout that would most likely dwarf you current GA pay($9K a month). If you then lost your medical for good you wouldn't have to worry about the family or mortgage as for an under 30 or so pilot you are looking at picking up $800,000. That's not for a loss of ability to make an income but for a loss of aviation medical, you could go back to work on the ground the next day and they would still pay out. Try comparing that to standard loss of income insurance.
Don't believe me? Australian Air Pilots Mutual Benefit Fund (http://www.aapmbf.com.au/benefits.php) Please look, I am more than happy to be corrected if you can quote it from the MBF :ok:.

[Wyle E Coyote]

j3pipercub

You are totally out of order here mate. You come arcoss like one of those pilots who hides behind seniority and the union to cover his own shortcomings. You'd do the union a favour by toning down your retoric if increasing union membership is your goal.

I agree with the others, the job page should be free. The more pilots that are employed, the more potential union members there are. I agree there are many benifits to joining, and maybe dangling a carrot (like the jobs page) is a way to lure new members closer.

Providing a few services for free encourages a sence of good will within the comunity, and the trickle down effects can be quite benificial.

[Move On]

I'm with J3:ok: I know where you are coming from....

I notice a few threads stating Saturdays Australian. It's actually Fridays the last time I checked. There are a lot of overseas pilot job websites that actually charge you to become a member.
As a member for AFAP, I see this as a added bonus. It does not cost much to be a member, there is even a rate for pilots without a job:ok:

By the time a pilot heads down to the pub with mates, gets on it and gets a cab home, via the kebab.....Bingo, there's your fee. (unemployed pilots fee).

A union has it's place in every industry. It's helped me and fellow friends.

I will ring AFAP just to make sure if they have blocked the jobs page or not?

Have a good weekend:ok:

[3 Holer]

You have to be a member of the AFAP now ! (http://www.afap.org.au/Jobs/Latest-Jobs/AFAP-Pilot-Jobs-.asp)

[j3pipercub]

Terribly accurate observation there Coyote, all I need now is to find employment with a company that has seniority.

As for the out of order statement, I would suggest that the non union members expecting the page to remain free are perhaps slightly more out of order. Are you an AFAP member Coyote?

My rhetoric is a result of frustration at the freeloading attitude that is pervasive in aviation. I'll bet some here think the AFAP controls the Award.

Furthermore, keeping the page free will not 'lure more members' or create a 'sense of goodwill'. It is plain to see that the indignation and prostestation of some on here, that it is considered a given the page should be free. Why would freeloaders pay for something voluntarily when they can view it for free? Furthermore, if keeping the page free was attracting members, then why would the AFAP change it? Wouldn't that be to their detriment as opposed to their benefit?

No, by making the page members only, I think you may actually boost the membership by forcing the freeloading pissants to get off their arse, spend a weekend out of the bars, and spending that money on something productive, Union membership.

j3

[Vincent Chase]

http://s12.postimage.org/xb9jgisjh/pissants.png

[remoak]

the freeloading attitude that is pervasive in aviation

I can't agree with that, in fact it's quite the reverse. Every man and his dog is trying to squeeze money out of pilots, from the dodgy flights schools looking for up-front payment, the hours-building scams, the employment agencies who see you as a commodity rather than a person, the regulatory authorities and their often extortionate fees in return for dubious services... and on it goes.

Life is peachy for those in established airlines, but for folk looking for the sort of job advertised on AFAP... it's normally the reverse.

It's their train set and they can do what they want with it, of course, but this latest move seems somewhat mean-spirited. It's obviously not a website glitch, it's a deliberate policy.

Must be time for a new player to emerge in the employment scene...

[Wyle E Coyote]

I have to agree with Remoak here, I don't think free loading is the issure here. Most of the free loading I see is work shy union members moaning that they don't get what they deserve. P3's attitude reminds me of those news reports from the '70, with all the car assemblers standing aroung a brazier rather than actually doing any work.

No I'm not an AFAP member. I'm an Expat pilot, and have been for many, many years now, but I still keep an eye on things back there. And this kind of whinging keeps me away (probably to his pleasure).

Some one else will pick up the ball here. I don't think anyone should pay to look at a job advertisment, especially not pilots. New pilots get gouged enough already. everyone's out to make a dollar off an unemployed pilot. Some good will will go a long way.

[Di_Vosh]

Seriously, you guys need to spend less time on Prune and more time looking for solutions to 'problems'.

One phone call from me to the AFAP this morning confirmed that the jobs page is open to non-members! :ok:

It's obviously not a website glitch, it's a deliberate policy.

It obviously was a website glitch. If you're still having problems acessing, I suggest you either refresh the page or clear your internet history and try again.

DIVOSH!

[propelled]

can also confirm that this page is indeed open to non-members after recent communication.. :ok:

however for most of yesterday, it was locked out for some reason.

j3, have you let ur union know your concerns on having this page open to 'freeloading pissant' fellow pilots? they may just listen to you, or most likely will not.

good news for most.. and if this jobs page does help me land my 1st gig, i will be the 1st to phone afap and thank them for providing me that service:ok:
have a good day all.

[VH-XXX]

Hello VH-XXX,

We have had a few issues with the page recently. It should now be accessible. Let me know if you require anyfurther assistance.

Regards,

Lennie (@ AFAP)




.... say no more.

[Lawrie Cox]

Thanks to the members who pointed out this thread and its bashing of the Feds for a service we provide to all pilots.

For the record there is a glitch with the provider which is being worked on and i do not have a timeframe when it will be rectified. The problem appears not to affect all at this point.

The Federation does have a policy to leave the page for access to anybody with an interest. Being the instigator of this page, the policy and administrator of it for quite a number of years I am more than disappointed at the actions of some in trying to discredit the Federation for the technical issue.

It has been effective in bringing together good information including recognition from the employers in getting results for their job ads.

Please continue to support the page and for those with a real interest in their fellow pilots (in every area of aviation) the Federation and the work that we do on your behalf. I look forward to more positive responses once the page is operational again.

Lawrie Cox
Manager - industrial Relations
Australian Federation of Air Pilots

[Sked]

Hear hear Lawrie!

[deadcut]

Aaaand end of thread?

[j3pipercub]

propelled,

I thought you weren't contributing to this thread anymore? And if you do ring to thank them (which I doubt), why not pay it forward and support the organisation that helped you.

For the record, there may come a time in your career when you NEED the assistance of the AFAP. Be it an Industrial issue or an accident/incident. Be aware the AFAP have a 3 month waiting period, to prevent people joining up and instantly requesting assistance. Just keep that in mind for the future.

Lawrie obviously believes that keeping this part of the website free to all is a good idea. I will defer to his decades of experience in the AFAP, aviation and being a good bloke.

What I took and continue to take issue with is the expectation that the page should be free:ugh:. It is like the old adage, if you do something for someone three times in a row voluntarily, it becomes an expectation rather than a favour.

j3

And to whoever corrected my spelling, didn't catch your username, but touche, it was quite a fowl oversight...

[tail wheel]

Being the instigator of this page, the policy and administrator of it for quite a number of years I am more than disappointed at the actions of some in trying to discredit the Federation for the technical issue.

Fair go Lawrie! Politicians, Unions and PPRuNe Moderators are always fair game!

You're losing your sense of humour!

:} :}

[Lawrie Cox]

Very funny!! TW you and I being treated in the same way. Now there is a first that some would find very funny if they knew our backgrounds and history. Perhaps an 'alliance' comes to mind??
Problem solved and those who want to bash can crawl back into their holes and wait for another sad opportunity.
Have a good weekend.
LC

[...still single]

Thanks to the members who pointed out this thread and its bashing of the Feds for a service we provide to all pilots.

For the record there is a glitch with the provider which is being worked on and i do not have a timeframe when it will be rectified. The problem appears not to affect all at this point.

The Federation does have a policy to leave the page for access to anybody with an interest. Being the instigator of this page, the policy and administrator of it for quite a number of years I am more than disappointed at the actions of some in trying to discredit the Federation for the technical issue.

It has been effective in bringing together good information including recognition from the employers in getting results for their job ads.

Please continue to support the page and for those with a real interest in their fellow pilots (in every area of aviation) the Federation and the work that we do on your behalf. I look forward to more positive responses once the page is operational again.

Lawrie Cox
Manager - industrial Relations
Australian Federation of Air Pilots



Spot on, Lawrie!
Thanks for maintaining the jobs page, I really do appreciate it.

[tail wheel]

Now there is a first that some would find very funny if they knew our backgrounds and history.

Yes, I still chuckle about those distant very different days. We both achieved very significant accomplishments, if at opposing ends of the spectrum! One day I must post your Ambit Claim on PPRuNe! :}

All part of the rich texture of life. :ok:

[havick]

Josh Cox,

Get off your F*cking high horse. You have no idea whether I am a member or not, so pull your head in.

I was making the point that if the page is locked to members only, then I can't see employers wanting to advertise there anymore.

Furthermore, the page was in fact locked to members only at the time the thread was started.

[Josh Cox]

Quote from my good mate Havick:

they are retards.. Do they not realise that companies won't bother advertising with them as now the ads won't be viewed by the majority of pilots.

I'm sorry, who was on their high horse ?.

Note that the page was never locked by the AFAP, some sort of technical glitch.

Josh Cox,

Get off your F*cking high horse. You have no idea whether I am a member or not, so pull your head in.

I was making the point that if the page is locked to members only, then I can't see employers wanting to advertise there anymore.

Furthermore, the page was in fact locked to members only at the time the thread was started.

Locked you say, not on: my home computer, or my android phone, or my samsung tablet, or my wifes, or my daughters, or my wifes work computer or the local internet cafe.

Not locked by AFAP, see Lawries post above.

So, it wasn't locked to members was it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in your eyes, are we still retards ?.

[airwolf117]

Gotta say guys..this is a pretty sad example of "professionals". Aviation is a small industry and to be acting like this to your fellow aviators is just sad.

Pretty much everyone was acting like a child, name calling and really escalating quickly over very little. The point was AFAP was down for a bit...that's it. Not "Its my right" or "You don't deserve anything without paying". No. Just "Its down".

But as usual, it evolved (using the term loosely) to a mud-slinging match, all over a computer glitch.

:ok: Good on AFAP for continuing to provide a free service to help "the little guy"

[tail wheel]

Yes, it is a pretty sad example of intolerant "professionals".

:mad: