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View Full Version : Ryanair MTOW 66990, HOW???


blunt81st
31st Aug 2012, 10:31
Does anybody know how Ryanair registers its aircraft at MTOW of 66,990kgs??

RegoSearch | EI-DAC Irish Aircraft Registration Details (http://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/ie/DAC)

This is way below what Boeing advertises as possible lowest MTOW of a B738.

captainng
31st Aug 2012, 19:14
ryanair have there aircraft running a variable Take Off weight program,

mtows are 66990, 69990, 74990 and can be changed for each sector by engineers or pilots now!! which happen to be the cost brackets for nav charges in lots of countries. I believe Boeing has the mtow as 79ton but I guess the regulators of each state can overide to be safer

safelife
31st Aug 2012, 19:53
That's called a flex weight, so save money on charges based on MTOW.

Al Murdoch
1st Sep 2012, 00:27
It's pretty simple really - they just change the MTOW according to the required load. For example. If the ZFW weight is 58 tonnes and you need 6 tonnes of fuel then you can go 66.9. It's quite common to do a whole 4 sector day at 66.9. Longer trips like UK to Canaries will typically require 74.9. If you need more fuel then you just up the weight to 69.9 or 74.9 as appropriate. Requires a little bit of thought at the crew room stage but its not a big deal and I believe saves the company significant sums.
At the moment only engineers can change the weight placard and the tech log but Captains will soon be authorised to do this.

Otto Throttle
1st Sep 2012, 09:09
It's not uncommon. Many operators declare a restricted TOW below the manufacturers MTOW for commercial purposes as it limits nav and landing charges as stated above, which are based on weight bands rather than type specific.

willl05
1st Sep 2012, 22:25
Is the Irish Aircraft Register then updated automatically and in real time?

Denti
1st Sep 2012, 22:37
Why would it? Just register the plane as having a certain MTOW and a range of flex weights. Those flex weights are used for airway/airport charges only.

We use a similar system for quite a few years now and crews can decide each sector which of the 10 different flex weights they use, of course it is always the lowest possible one. In the near future there will be no crew decision about that anymore, centralized load control will use the lowest possible MTOW for each flight, the crew doesn't need to do a thing. Oh, and i'm not flying for ryan air of course.

willl05
2nd Sep 2012, 15:18
Shouldn't the registered weight then be the highest? In the above case it seems to be the lowest. Can one simply declare a MTOW higher than the one on the registration?

Denti
2nd Sep 2012, 17:29
Yes, the registered weight will be the highest of course, and the range of lower flex weights that will be used on the flight. Most of the time one doesn't need the highest weight, just on very few flights so the cost effect is quite large.

Interesting point about the EASA rules changing things.

safelife
2nd Sep 2012, 23:25
In my airline we can change the flex weight at any time before departure, we just use it on the load sheet and done.

john_tullamarine
2nd Sep 2012, 23:38
I'm amazed ... considering that the usual basis for services charging is MTOW ...

AeroTech
3rd Sep 2012, 03:18
Hi,

That's called a flex weight, so save money on charges based on MTOW.

It seems that weight flex is a smart way to reduce navigation charges especially for aircraft operator with huge fleet of short-haul aircraft. I am wondering if the landing charges is based on actual landing weight and not based on the MLW (Maximum Landing Weight).

Is this permissible in the States? It seems beneficial for airlines especially with short-haul aircraft such Southwest.

Regards

galaxy flyer
3rd Sep 2012, 03:34
For the most part in the US, landing fees are based on certificated max landing weights. Some airlines have planes with several different MLW to minimize landing fees. But, in EU land, the navigation fees are based on a complicated formula with MTOW only one term, but a major one, so using different weights could save money.

The GLEX has a supplement to use lower MTOW for places like KAPF and KSDL, 75,000 pounds vice 99,500. At SYD, the lower weight implies lower noise, avoiding curfew. Used once!

plain-plane
3rd Sep 2012, 04:00
There are places in europe where pilots/ captains are allowed to change the MTOW as well as the MLW... all it takes is the company supplied screwdriver and a signature...

Oleo strut and tyre pressure stays the same all day- fo all weights...
so believe it or not there are places in the old world that are less stringent than the emerald isle...

redED
3rd Sep 2012, 16:31
I am wondering if the landing charges is based on actual landing weight and not based on the MLW (Maximum Landing Weight).

Depends on the airfield. Flybe currently taking LGW to court in the UK as they charge the same for a Dash8 as an A321.

Denti
3rd Sep 2012, 19:20
Different company schemes it seems, for us it doesn't even need a screwdriver, just a captains signature on the loadsheet.

twochai
4th Sep 2012, 04:01
Why do the ANSP's not charge by the actual take off weight? To use the max weight all the time is obviously unfair to the operator, but to change MTOW each time must also be a pain to the operator, at some level.

de facto
4th Sep 2012, 07:37
to change MTOW each time must also be a pain to the operator, at some level.

Not at pilot's level,did it for a few years.

Al Murdoch
4th Sep 2012, 08:01
Just to be picky, a screwdriver isn't required. The placards now have screws that can be removed by hand. They think of everything....

de facto
4th Sep 2012, 08:12
Yes they did a few years back already...imagine crews trying to explain UK airport security the reason why they are carrying a screw driver:E