ICAO License

[FoxtrotCharlie7]

Hello guys, good afternoon.

I'm opening this post as I've got some doubts concerning different pilot licenses, and I haven't been able to find out a decent solution.

My first question is: how many pilot licenses exist around the world? I've seen FAA and JAA, but then when trying to seek some "pilot advert job" says something like: ICAO ATPL license. What does this ICAO refers to? To hold a JAA/FAA license?
As far as I know, ICAO is an International Organisation... it doesn't provide licenses....

My second question is: what kind of pilot license (in case ATPL frozen) would a Latin American student get if studying in Argentina/Chile/Perú and so on... An FAA license?

My third question is: can a person with an FAA/JAA pilot license fly in an Asia/Africa/Middle East country?

Thanks in advance
Cheers,

[sinico.aeronauta]

Hello,

I have an 'ICAO' PPL done here in Italy. It isn't a JAA License while I haven't done the 'JAA course' of about 8 hours...

If I move to Brazil, for instance, (I'm Brazilian too), I'll need to change my 'ICAO PPL' to the local License, so, In Brazil there's ANAC as 'Agencia Nacional da Aviaçao Civil', who will convert my ICAO License to the Brazilian one.

Hope I've helped you...

cheers !

[zondaracer]

An ICAO license is a license issued by a signatory country of ICAO, issued using the minimum requirements outlined by ICAO for license issue.

A JAA CPL is an ICAO license. FAA CPL is an ICAO license.
If you get a license in Argentina/Peru/etc, it most likely will be an ICAO license, but it wont be an FAA license. It will be a license issued by the local authority.

An example of a non-ICAO license would be the FAA Sport Pilot license, or the UK National PPL. They are not valid for flying in other countries without special permission.

[FoxtrotCharlie7]

Hello! Thank you both guys, you have answered my doubts.
Cheers

[Andrea_CTA]

... So what kind of license is the one issued in Brazil (Rio De Janeiro in my case)?

Is the CASA one?

Obrigado

André

[zondaracer]

A Brazilian ANAC license is also an ICAO license.

[Andrea_CTA]

... So you mean that I don't have to convert If I wish to work in Europe?

You know, I am Italian but I am going to do the CPL/IR/ME in Rio De Janeiro and then, waiting for the citizenship, I want to go back to Europe to start working.
Is it possibile to do that without any conversion?

Thank you very much
André

EDIT:

I made a mistake: As it is an ICAO license I do have to convert it into a JAR one.

[zondaracer]

There are two different things that you are confusing...

Validation: allows you to fly an aircraft with a different country registration with your current license. Highly unlikely that you will be given a validation to fly in Europe on a foreign license.

Conversion: to be issued a license from another country's authority to be able to fly. You will need this if you want to fly in Europe after doing your initial license outside of Europe.

A JAA/EASA license is also an ICAO license.

[Andrea_CTA]

Got It. :ok:

Now I have a new question :E

Where I can find a list of countries in which ICAO ATPL ( the one I will get from Rio De Janeiro, Skylab Aviaçao, right ? ) is accepted?

Thank you in advance
André

[flyingswiss]

there are very few countries where you are allowed to fly a national reg with a foreign license....NZ/AU maybe?

When they say ICAO ATPL, CPL license required it does not mean that you will not need to do a conversion/validation, 99% of the time you will have to do at least an Air law test and a Medical exam, usually the more developed the place: the higher the requirements.

So if a company wants you to hold an ICAO license the local Civil Aviation Authorities upon request will issue you either a Validation or a Conversion:

Validations are easier to get, some 3rd world countries may give you a license on the spot with no question asked, some may make you take a written test on local regs and do the medical. But in case of a Validation your Original license used for this procedure has to be valid: BFR, IFR,....if they allow you to use the foreign medical that will have to be valid too. Usually a Validation is given if you need the fly for short term or as a normal procedure before giving out a conversion which may take longer to get and delay your flying. In Europe several countries offer you a way to get a CPL validation a lot easier then having to do the whole Frozen ATPLs CV of written tests and flying. FOCA in Switzerland will issue a CPL/IR based on a foreign CPL/IR if you meet certain hours requirements, don`t remeber the numbers now but you will not qualify as a fresh CPL, lots of PIC time.....but again a CPL only is kind of useless.

Conversions can be longer and harder, this is the case if you want to go from let`s say an FAA, a Brazilian ANAC CNH to a JAR license with frozen ATPL, any JAA country has it`s own standards for getting the flying testing for the CPL done but in order to get the Frozen ATPL you will have to do all the 14 exams, 12 in CH.

There are no short cuts, some places may give you a PPL based on a foreign CPL with just the Medical, FOCA allows that and you can just renew it every year...but that`s it.

By doing your flight training in Brazil, be careful becasue you will not qualify with the flight experience in some EU states for the CPL.

[flyingswiss]

Your are not going to get an ATPL from Skylab, ANAC issues the licenses, in Brazil the ATPL is called PLA.

Any country that is part of ICAO will recognize your license and if you meet the requirements allow you to do a conversion or a validation. It is generally easy to go from an ATPL to a CPL, but very hard to go from a fresh ATPL to an other ATPL.

In India for example, if you show a fresh Brazilian ATPL with just the minimum flight time required to get it here they will not issue you an Indian ATPL since you need a lot more X-country time then you need here, so you need to have the same level of ICAO license but also meet the time requirements for that country and his ATPL.

[Andrea_CTA]

Thank you again flyingswiss for all these usefull informations.
As soon as I arrive in Rio (10th October) I will have a loooong chat with the School's Director in order to have all the information I need.

Very appreciated :ok:

André

[flyingswiss]

Why don`t you go to Marica`? Blue Sky and QNE are pretty decent, QNE is probably the best school I have seen in Brazil.

[mrboli]

Hi. I hope anybody can answer my question.

Can a Canadian CPL be used to work in Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Mexico and basically all Latin American countries? I now it has to be converted to the local country's. But, has one to be Argentinian to be allowed to command an aircraft? If so, is that the case of all Latin Countries? Thank you.

[Praggn]

Hi there mrboli,

Well to be as short as possible, I have a Canadian CPL etc. and moved to Peru.
It was pretty complicated do to the fact that south american countries protect their own pilots.
Therefore they asked to me either live in the country with an PR or to get married. After that i had to pass the hoel exam again CPL IFR and flight test.

It might be the same for other countries down here so make sure that you're ready to get a lot of paper work to get done.

Hopefully it helps you out, in case you got some other questions just let me know.

See ya

[lilflyboy262...2]

People are making this more complicated than it needs to be.

The licence that is issued to you in the country that you have sat the licence is, will only allow you to fly aircraft registed to that country.
The exception to this is the JAA/JAR licence in Europe. You can fly any aircraft on the JAA/JAR register.

An ICAO licence is purely a licence that is issued by a country under the guidelines of the ICAO agreement.

Licences issued in say.... the Democratic Republic of Congo... are not ICAO licences.

The purpose of an ICAO licence is to provide ease of conversion or validation in another country.
What process that you have to go through to convert/validate your licence varies from country to country as they have their own guidelines over and above the ICAO licence guidelines.

To make it even simpler....

If you have a licence issued in one country, you will have to get it validated/converted to fly in another one.

[Stone_cold]

For those who question and critique the South American countries for "protecting " their pilots . Can a pilot with a Peruvian licence get a job in Canada without any resident
status ??

[cosmiccomet]

There is no way for a South American citizen to get a pilot job in Europe without another passport from a EU country.
Once you have one of those red passports you have to go through a 14 written exams plus a fly training/check ride. It doesn´t depend on your previous experience.
I had at that moment more than 5000 hrs TT with 3000 hrs heavy jet and I had to do it.

[Stone_cold]

CC . Thanks , It wan't a genuine question .

All countries around the world generally practice a "citizens first policy " . I was just highlighting the fact that some were criticizing a policy which their own countries practice . In Canada , there is no probably chance of a non-resident even getting an application response .

[Praggn]

No, you are right Stone_cold, but you can still work as flight instructor even without beeing a resident in Canada. Not the case down here...

[LimaFoxTango]

"No, you are right Stone_cold, but you can still work as flight instructor even without beeing a resident in Canada....during your flight training after which you will have zero chance of getting a job commercially."

There, I fixed if for you.