Is there going to be another BA cadet program later this year?

[FututePilot]

Hello,
judging from this
British Airways to Speak at CTC Open Day - 10 November 2012 | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/news/article/british_airways_to_speak_at_ctc_open_day_10_november_2012)

maybe yes...

"With this first group of FPP cadets now well into their 18-month training programme and the second application window potentially opening later this year, the open day offers a great opportunity to learn more about British Airways..."

Does anybody have any other relevant info/rumor?
Thanks

[average-punter]

I've spoken to a few people at BA about this. The general feeling is that it will run about but nobody knows timescales.

[AlexanderH]

Funnily enough I was yesterday speaking with someone I know at BA recruitment about this. There will be a new cadet scheme sometime soon but no dates as of yet.

They might also start a recruitment drive for FATPL holders with minimal hours.

[Morris542]

They might also start a recruitment drive for FATPL holders with minimal hours.


If they wait two years before they do that I'll be very happy! Just starting the ATPL ground studies now!

[mad_jock]

They might also start a recruitment drive for FATPL holders with minimal hours.

They are contracted to take low houred guys from PTC.

So I suspect that is wishfull thinking from the other schools to try and increase their self financed numbers.

And to be honest until the BMI thing is sorted out and the crew sorted out I doudt there will be anything set in stone. They proberly don't have a clue what they are going to do with the current cadets.

It may very well be a case of shave your legs your chucking biscuits for 6 months. Which I might add is no bad thing for CRM with the prospect of a flight deck job at the end of it. And coupled with the BMI pilots will be infront of you in the seniority list.

[Bealzebub]

They are contracted to take low houred guys from PTC.

No they are aren't. The FPP programme is administered through APL which is a subsidiary company of CTC. The courses are then run through the "big 3" CTC, FTE, and Oxford.

PTC is an Irish company that went bust.

[mad_jock]

True enough, even the big ones go bust taking all the cash with them.

Reported on here though its only CTC hold pool who will have a chance in any extra jobs that turn up.

The main recuritment is split between the three but any additional low houred pilots come from CTC as reported. Something to do with them organising the finance for those that can't get the security.

Thus meaning that the others can't even market the fact you may have a chance of getting a job with BA. Which we both know is a cracking way of getting the self financing punter seperated from there borrowed cash.

[Bealzebub]

True enough, even the big ones go bust taking all the cash with them.I usually refer to the "big 3" and they certainly haven't! You erroneously mentioned "PTC" which I have never considered in this category. However yes, just as plenty of "modular" FTO's have failed, any business can go bust. They normally do so because they run out of cash, not because they take it with them. The obituries of failed companies, including airlines, makes for a very long list.

Risk is unavoidable, but there are simple steps that minimize it. Unfortunetaly too many people are driven or pursuaded to take the "cheaper" options by others who often see any other route than their own as a threat. For many, their choices are limited by their own economic necessities. Thus, people will make their own choices based on their own circumstances, and what they can afford.

Suggesting that it is a level playing people, or that the same options are as likely no matter what route is taken, is simply wrong advice. I don't give it. A lot of people come here to advise people that the route to their goal is the one that they themselves still haven't fully achieved, but are still hoping to. It makes absolutely no difference to me, what people decide. I simply state the realities that exist at this end of the marketplace. It is a tool for those considering their options to use as they see fit. Ignore it with pleasure.

[mad_jock]

:D I don't see it as a threat.

I do see it as wasting money unless you are on a cadet scheme.

In your opinion its wrong advice. In your opinion hundreds of wannabies should prop up the prefered method of training of a few airlines with there familys cash with a huge risk of not getting any return for it.

You state that you won't have a chance of a job unless you train a certain way. My experence is the exactly the oppersite.

And yes its for the posters to decide who's advice to go with.

Go with mine and remove 30-40k's worth of profit from the big three or go with yours and give it to them and help prop up the prefered training method of airlines they don't have a chance in hell of getting into.

But realistically our regullar bun fight on this subject isn't really relevent to the young wannbies who are only interested in if BA is going to start thier cadetship again.

Facts are currently

Nobody knows.

[Bealzebub]

Absolutely not.

You advise people to take a route that joins you on the same "stepping stone." What you fail to point out, is just how small that "stepping stone" is. There are a lot of people hoping for a chance to get on it, and for many of them it would be a fantastic opportunity. The truth is that most simply won't get those opportunities. However since the economic realities will ultimately dictate the options for the vast majority, it will be their only choice.

Beyond these "stepping stones" lies the ultimate goal for many. It is their route here that a lot concern themselves with. Most are looking for the best opportunity and the fastest track to these goals. Those opportunities usually follow specific pathways, and no matter how much you dislike or rail against it, they remain the best courses.

A healthy market in those "stepping stone" opportunities is to be applauded, as it provides the best chance for those who cannot afford the fast track training methods. However the reality is that those markets are as weak as the general economy would suggest, and massively oversubscribed with would be applicants.

Obviously £85k of debt and a £57k income is preferable to £60k debt and no income at all! Those opportunities are the top end of the scale, but they exist. Then there are less favourable opportunities that still provide an income, still provide flying time, still provide licence and IR renewals. In other words an advancement of the apprenticeship.

There are no guarantees and no promises, but the opportunities do exist.

I have said it many times, and neither you or anybody else challenges the statement. But if this were a paid sponsorship and you could select the training method, which would it be? There is no challenge because the honest response is obvious. However the reality is that few people can afford this route and so it becomes a moot point. However for many of the first tier airlines it isn't a financial risk, and they have little difficulty specifying the route that their cadets should either take or be drawn from.
I (rhetorically) wonder why?

As to your final point, yes you are right the thread is of interest and origin to those concerned with the BA FPP scheme. Guess where they are going to be trained?

[mad_jock]

Well you see I don't think its as small a stepping stone market as you seem to.

But then again you don't work in my market you work in one that only does cadets.

Your traditional recruiting ground has started to impose on my market because they arn't getting jobs on fancy jets. More and more of them. 5 years ago you never saw a CV in the pile to fly an old heap of a turboprop. Now we get 10-20 new ones a month.

But as you have said you need to be a cadet to get these jobs straight off on fancy jets. If they don't get a job on them they are paying to fly an old heap of a turbo prop which to be honest they arn't suited for and doesn't pay enough to servise the loans. Most mod pilots don't have anywhere near that level of debt mainly because the banks won't give it to them, try 20k and you might be nearer the mark. Quite a few don't have any at all because they worked and payed for it in cash.

The market for self financed is the same as for anyone however they are trained. All the jobs they are suited for are now sown up with cadets and if you don't even pass the starting post your not allowed to play. Just join the 100's apon 100's of previous graduates from both methods.

Then they find out what the difference is between paying off 20k and 80k.

There isn't enough cadetships to keep one big school going never mind 3 you need those self finance guys to keep your prefered training method going. No wonder you are so critical of anything whch suggests not doing it.

I am well aware where the FPP are going and I wish them every success and enjoyment on there training (and thats said in a none sarcastic way)

[Ollie23]

I fail to see why this gets flogged to death at every opportunity.

If you want a shot at a major airline with 250hrs and you can afford to keep your ratings current/service any debt for the indefinite future whilst you potentially swim in CTC hold pool etc then go do an integrated course. As Bealzebub has rightly pointed out, numerous times, you maximise your chances of achieving this goal - especially via CTC wings.

If you can't afford this or deem the level of financial risk unacceptable then be grateful that you have another option in the modular route (which has many of it's own advantages anyway).

What's critical is that you can afford to keep current afterwards, should you need to, otherwise you really are just burning money.

[mad_jock]

There is no discussion about the cadet schemes or the top of the range CTC scheme. If you can do it go for it.

As I have mentioned in my posts before I am aiming for the people who provide the securing Capital.

There is no one on this earth anyone will change the minds of the wannbie zombie army once they have been sucked in by the marketing.

[truckflyer]

I have to agree with Bealzebub, that if your aim is to get airline placement, the odds are heavily improved if you use CTC compared to many other options!

If you choose not to take one of these integrated options, your alternatives are getting a lucky break with Ryanair or most likely buying hours on type, which most likely will get you where you want at similar cost as the integrated course will get you, maybe even for a bit less!

No doubt, anybody who could get in on the BA scheme, would have the best possible career for life, considering the future of and T/C's at BA are probably some of the best in the world, long term!

Having said that, I know of loads of guys the last 12 months, who have got jobs flying nice shiny jets, who have all gone modular. Pay is not the best, however it gives you the experience you need to be able to develop and improve your career!

I don't really agree with the CTC concept, however if I was going to give somebody advice what they should do, for sure such a cadet scheme for BA would get a thumbs up, as the other options when going modular are extremely unreliable, and end of the day requires you spending heaps of cash on renewing licences, paying for your own TR etc.

[Bealzebub]

As I have mentioned in my posts before I am aiming for the people who provide the securing Capital.

Aiming for?

Presumably you mean people like my colleagues and friends who provide the securing capital for their own kids to utilize these programmes. Is this "aiming for" designed to protect them or simply attack them? In either case it is pointless, they know the risks better than anybody else and they see the results first hand. For people without the advantage of that perspective, the advice or comments on these forums provide the same tools to help them come to whatever decision they also choose to make.

It is interesting that the people with the best vantage point to see these programmes for what they are, are usually the ones utilizing them and providing the securing capital. You would imagine they wouldn't touch them with a bargepole with that breadth of knowledge wouldn't you? Yet they do. I wonder why!

Major carriers use these schemes for their apprenticeship pilot programmes. Even the national flag carrier uses them for its re-launched and long established cadet programme. In fact that same carrier (the subject of this thread) goes so far as to provide securing capital where required. Are you aiming for them as well?

You seem to have this bizzare notion that people who cannot utilize these cadet paths are somehow immune from debt, or have cleverly self financed themselves into a parallel training structure with the same oportunities. I assume you are not a parent, because if you were, you would know only too well how reliant your offspring are on your "securing capital," whether that be for education, training, transport and almost everything else! Parents also evolve a set of survival instincts borne out of their offsprings needs and demands, that very rarely puts them in the jeopardy that you might think it does.

I hope that the "stepping stone" jobs prosper and multiply. I hope that more and more people without the luck or resource to obtain a cadetship find these opportunities. I hope that the process enables as many determined and resourceful people as possible to find their way to the career that they want. The problem is, that isn't how the industry has evolved. You yourself acknowledged this when you stated:
All the jobs they are suited for are now sown up with cadets and if you don't even pass the starting post your not allowed to play. I wouldn't entirely agree with your statement, but accepting it in essence it is why I advise that people do a lot of research, and make very considered choices. When you or somebody like you gets the opportunity to jump from the stepping stones on to the eventual plateau they might regard as an end goal, you are very likely to find yourself sitting to the right of, being interviewed by, or working under the direction of, the same people who succesfully utilized the routes you elect to denigrate.

Whether you choose to believe that or not, I can promise you it is a fact of life these days.

[mad_jock]

Protect them and see through the marketing. People in aviation can look after themselves. Not really bothered about them. Its the normal familys who don't have a clue about aviation who only want the best for there child and are putting the entire familys capital on the line. Potentially stopping a sibling from further education due to servicing the pilots debt to stop the family house being lost. Based on research which is based on a projected sales report of boeing which the training industry is hang its hat and its pensions on.

I have no doudt and know the mods use loans to complete there training but they are in a different scale, its more in the scale of deposite for a house instead of buying the house.

But you still haven't dealt with the fact you have zero clue what my market is like or for that matter how much movement there is. I see and hear the movement and have to train them coming online.

We also now have the sales reps from the big three coming round to make exclusive deals to only get the "very best of the product" which they have personally selected. In days past they wouldn't even look at you or even acknowledge the excistance of "things" with propellers. Now they want your FO jobs.

The jobs that can be got outside cadetships are training independent.

I wouldn't entirely agree with your statement, but accepting it in essence it is why I advise that people do a lot of research, and make very considered choices.

Which is why my advice is if your not on a cadetship don't pay the premium price and self finance. You are in exactly the same situation as a mod once your booted out the door with blue licences in hand. In fact slightly worse off as most CP's in my market are mod trained.

There is of course reasons outside that to do with people who can't learn outside a managed enviroment and not having the self control and disapline to self study. For them the premium is worth it because otherwise they would never complete.

[Bealzebub]

Protect them and see through the marketing. People in aviation can look after themselves. Not really bothered about them. Its the normal familys who don't have a clue about aviation who only want the best for there child and are putting the entire familys capital on the line. Potentially stopping a sibling from further education due to servicing the pilots debt to stop the family house being lost.
What utter drivel! People in aviation aren't normal families? Don't want the best for their children? Other people are far too stupid (when they make the same decision) and lose the family home? Do you honestly wrap yourself up in the cloak of this nonsense? Of the 21 people I have been following over the last 2 years only two have one or more parents "in aviation" the rest have parents in a range of occupations, and in at least one case, have saved up for the monies they have invested.

But you still haven't dealt with the fact you have zero clue what my market is like or for that matter how much movement there is. I see and hear the movement and have to train them coming online That is because like most of your "facts" it isn't a fact at all. Recruitment for the last thirty years (and beyond) has traditionally been from from the recognised sources of supply. They are military pilots transitioning to a civilian career. They are self improvers moving up through the tiers. Those tiers being aerial work occupations such as flight instruction, air taxi, corporate, small regional air transport companies, third and second tier airlines. Fast track approved courses of training into cadet courses at the first tier airline companies. Each of these sources, have to varying and changing degrees, provided the tributary sources that in sum total satisfied the recruitment needs of the major airlines.

Over the last decade and a half, there has been a dynamic change in the both the flow of these tributaries and in the use of them. The biggest change has been effected by the growth of the "lo-co" sector. This sector of the market needed well trained ab-initio First Officers, where the demand/supply curve reduced the input cost. It found the solution in the integrated cadet programmes which in turn expanded to satisfy a far greater percentage of the overall employment market than had ever historically been the case. That expansion continues apace and has now permeated through the charter airlines, hybrid scheduled/charter airlines, and into the legacy scheduled airlines (where it had been conceived in the first place.)

Economic realities over the last decade have seen a contraction or general restraint in much of the European and North American markets and a rapid growth in some Middle Eastern and Far Eastern markets. Faced with downward pressure on terms and conditions in these former markets, there has been a dynamic movement of labour flow into the latter markets, thereby reducing some of the oversupply that would by default have resulted in an even worse situation had that not been the reality.

Contraction of numbers as a result of "greater efficiencies" has resulted in the military transition(ers) representing perhaps the smallest percentage of supply than has ever historically been the case. Nevertheless it is still viewed as an exceptionally high quality source, and some airlines maintain either specific or general programmes to take advantage of that supply source.

In the "self improver" market, there have been major changes that have directly affected the "stepping stone" opportunities. There have also been major changes that have distorted the perception of this market. Firstly those traditional "aerial work" jobs that were once the stones that those starting out cut their teeth on, (instructing being the prime example,) have been victim to the general recession. Whereas once such jobs were "stepping stones" to a commercial pilots licence, now they are "stepping stones" that require a commercial licence. This is because of regulatory changes that made this licence (in the UK) an "aerial work" licence rather than the career licence that it had been previously viewed as. The natural attrition that once occurred en-route to that licence, was now transferred to the post acquisition period. The old "700 hour" licence became the new "250 hour" licence, with a whole generation of people and flying schools happy to promote the idea nothing had changed and this was the new "bargain route" to becoming an airline pilot.
Coupled with the economic downturn, so the general aviation demographic also changed. Market segments such as "air taxi" all but evaporated. Airlines that had once operated across a wider market (including small/medium turboprops and larger jets) focused on the more profitable sectors of their business, often divesting themselves of the smaller parts of their businesses to separate companies who specialized in those markets. The whole industry became leaner and meaner, and those sectors that didn't went to the wall.

So there evolved an industry where the top has an oversupply of experienced pilots (often working in overseas markets and thereby masking the supply pressure.) You have a ready supply of cost effective recruits taking the fast track (cadet) programmes into the right hand seat of the first and second tier airline companies. You still have the (much smaller number of) military career changers competing for the few opportunities available. Then you have the self improvers who have paralleled the cadet training routes seeking to take up the opportunities that open up in the fast track routes from time to time, as well as other opportunities generally. Then you have the armies of self improvers, the huge bulk of supply, who have availed themselves of the new 250 hour "aerial work" CPL/IR, wondering where all the airline jobs are? As reality sets in, they wonder where all the turboprop jobs are? As reality deepens they wonder where all the corporate jobs are? Then the bush pilot, instructing and general aviation jobs? Then anything, anywhere? So when you say: But you still haven't dealt with the fact you have zero clue what my market is like or for that matter how much movement there is. I would suggest that yet again you are wrong. The market for pilots is something I have been discussing on these forums for years. They are observations of reality and not my opinions or my wishful thoughts. The higher up the tree, the better the panorama with which to make those observations. One day you will realize that yourself.

I would like to say that your spelling and grammar belies the strength of your argument, but sadly I am afraid it doesn't. You are too narrowly focused on one issue and refuse to see the much bigger picture for what it really is, or what you would want it to be. The panorama is there for anybody to see if they climb high enough and open their eyes. I am happy to describe it and invite others to look for themselves. I would respectfully suggest that if people need "protecting" they start off by doing just that.

[mad_jock]

yes go back to my rubbish spelling and grammar.......

Only 20?? which mostly have been on cadet schemes thats hardly a broad spectrum over view now is it. My case it has been over the last 10 years proberly getting on for over 250, instructors, ppl students that I have trained, friends of friends collegues and others I have met on nightstops.

So we can agree then you have no experence or personal knowledge about the stepping stone market.

Only what you read on the internet.

Where as I on the other had I am a line trainer in that market. Haven't flown with a normal FO in a month and have a backlog of 2 months of line training to do.

We also I might add are getting applications from jet jocks for DEC because there is no work for them and they are even willing to pay for the rating.

Can you answer this question.

If all the self finacing students which as you have said have little hope if they arn't on a cadetship didn't persue your recommended method of training. Would your prefered method of training excist in its current form, with enough capacity to allow expansion of airlines who have that prefered method of training?

[PURPLE PITOT]

It would have been different if there had been no connection between the airline training departments, and the pockets of CTC owners and trainers!

[Bealzebub]

Only 20?? which mostly have been on cadet schemes thats hardly a broad spectrum over view now is it

No. It is, as I have said before, "a snapshot." I have described the broad overview in some detail. Didn't you read it? If not go back and read it again, or do a quick search and read it in the many similar posts on this same subject.
So we can agree then you have no experence or personal knowledge about the stepping stone market
No. Again you are wrong I am afraid. We cannot agree, because that is simply not true. I have worked my way through most of the sectors of the aviation market (including yours) over a long career. I have flown turboprops on mornings so cold you had to warm your hands with hot water in bottles, to stop your fingers from going numb. I know first hand how difficult a sector of the market it can be. Over the years I have seen how the size and dynamic of that market has changed. I have worked as an instructor and an examiner. I have thousands of hours in that market and no doubt could give you a run for your money on the "true grit" and tales of "hardship and heroism" stakes. I have done "bush flying" in Africa for 2 years, and Ferry flights over parts of the world, the wisdom of which I now question, and thank "luck" for being on my side. I flew the early jets such as the Boeing 707 right through to the current crop such as the 767. Still my career continues, for which I am very grateful. So, no. I don't rely on the internet as being my "window on the world" because clearly I don't need to. However it is a tool, and as people use it to comment and research (or in many cases simply troll!) So it is a medium to also express valid and honest observations. With 7100 such "contributions" in the last 11 years, I assume you must agree?
Where as I on the other had I am a line trainer in that market. Haven't flown with a normal FO in a month and have a backlog of 2 months of line training to do. Excellent! We all have our crosses to bear don't we? Although I am not sure what point you are trying to make exactly. If it is that the third tier airline market is booming, then that will come as great news to the many thousands of wanabees who are relying on this as a part of their career development plans. If the point is that "normal" first officers don't fly with line trainers, then I am confused. However you then say: We also I might add are getting applications from jet jocks for DEC because there is no work for them and they are even willing to pay for the rating. Which rather suggests that the market is very weak across the board, which underscores everything I have been saying, and simply serves to reinforce the downward labour market pressures coming from relatively experienced pilots.

Can you answer this question.

If all the self finacing students which as you have said have little hope if they arn't on a cadetship didn't persue your recommended method of training. Would your prefered method of training excist in its current form, with enough capacity to allow expansion of airlines who have that prefered method of training?

I will try and answer your question. Firstly I am not sure what you mean by self fiancing students. They are nearly all "self financing." If they have to save the money or borrow it from banks, parents, airline schemes or anything else, it is still "self financing." Secondly, I am not sure what you mean my "my prefered (sic) method of training excist (sic) in its current form." What preferred method of training? If you want me to opine on that subject it would be a whole new thread. I am making comment on the situation as it exists today. The realities of the marketplace as an observation. The options open to people based on those realities. That said, and discarding your erroneous suppositions, my answer would be: Yes. The training methods and courses employed at the FTO's utilized by the airline cadet programmes would still exist. These FTO's are not new, they have an established track record in their respective markets. Whilst they have grown, that growth has been restrained by the general economic cycle. It may be badly written, but if you are suggesting that the same FTO's are subsidized by non-cadet trainees using the same courses, they may well be. Arguably it could be that the cadet programmes subsidize the general integrated programmes I suppose? In any event, I would answer the question with a question. It is not a new question. It is one I have been asking here for a couple of years. It is one I have asked you and you have ignored. The question is:

If I were offering a sponsorship (and money was not the prime consideration) which methodology would you choose for your training? The answer to what I suspect is your question, lies in the honest answer to that question. You have evaded it. Many other people have evaded it. I completely understand why. The airlines don't have this dilemma because the risk has been shifted to the candidate. Nevertheless, they also come up with the same answer. Anybody reading this can provide their own answer to your question without me having to say anything else.

In summary. This thread is titled:
Is there going to be another BA cadet program later this year?

There will be people who know the answer to the specific question and I am not one of them. I could only therefore venture an opinion. I apologize for taking up so much bandwidth arguing the same old subjects with the usual protagonists and advocates, however many of the points deserve repetition. This programme is a cadet scheme. It is a cadet scheme that utilizes the training methodology of three specific FTO's in this market. The methodology is an integrated course of training leading to a CPL/IR with ATPL ground subjects. It comprises the necessary elements of a Multi-crew Certification course, as well as a basic "jet orientation course." In combination this leads on to the introductory requirements for a First Officer apprenticeship with British airways. The qualification requirements as an industry average are very high, both in educational qualifications and in general selection criteria. Whether the programme re-opens this year or not, it is likely it will resume once there is a perceived requirement by the company for it to do so.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Of my 3 jet types, i did the 737 with CTC on my own dollar. As an instructor/trainer, i would not even describe that "experience" as training.

[mad_jock]

You have zero clue whats happening at the moment in my market. If you haven't worked in that market in the last two years you really don't have a clue just like I don't have a clue about the instructors market these days or for that matter the loco market. 6 months time it will be different again I will see that and you still won't have a clue.

And the point was I am line training constantly.

but if you are suggesting that the same FTO's are subsidized by non-cadet trainees using the same courses, they may well be

Thats exactly it, in fact they are making up the numbers to keep things in the black. But no jet jobs for them afterwards as thats only for the cadets. They have to come and try and fly the heaps with the rest of us or become extremely poor instructors because they have never been taught how to fly a SEP properly (some are OK I might add the ones that did a PPL before training) but unfortaunatley they really arn't suited to flying in my market so most CP's won't touch them with a barge pole, unless they are doing a mate a favour getting his kid something that burns JetA and they can log multi crew on.

But its these jobs that the sales reps are trying to get exclusive deals on to provide FO's.

And to be honest I proberly wouldn't go intergrated purely because I enjoy flying. I would do the ppl in the UK, I would then hour build in New zealand, Alaska maybe Africa. Then go back to airways in exeter because in my experence they produce better hands feet pilots and more developed all round aviators than the big three. Who turn out operators which are suited for your big airline requirments.

And yes when ever you post a one sided view on the market I will always come back I disagree with you because basically it is not what I see personally on the line day in and day out.

Any yep please reply again and I will answer again. All it will do is increase the hit rate on the search engines. And get more familys to be able to see that there is an alternative view to the fact that filling the coffers of the big 3 is the only way to get a job, even flying the dirty coal face side of flying.

To be honest the way you come back every time its as if you had a finacial stake in the big three or that you know that if the numbers arn't increased or continue to drop things may not be rosey for the big three. All there fleets are old, there instructors not much better condition. EASA regulation changes mean that its extremely hard and expensive to be able to teach at that level and certainly not worth the salarys that they are paying.

[taxistaxing]

I have no axe to grind but I notice Bealzebub has posted on the African flying forum to point out that one of the bush-pilots, who got a job at Qatar through their SFO programme (after presumably a couple of thousand hours flying around Botswana), may have done so because of training at one of the big three.

Go figure.

[mad_jock]

After 500 hours on the dark continent it doesn't matter where you have trained in europe darwin theory has sorted the pilots out from the rest. The lack of PIC skills will have been dealt with.

[screwit]

in 3 or 6 months, and pilot will fly 20h a month, paid 600 euro, after 500 h bye bye...

spend 100000 euro for that? ah ah something wrong in your head....

[dogtired2]

So...any news on whether BA is opening up the scheme again this year?

[FANS]

If you find out, can you let BA know...

[mad_jock]

Don't forget there is a spelling test this time round.

[AMS]

:D Brilliant FANS!!!

[dogtired2]

OK FANS ....done...BA have been informed..they apologise for the delay they will be sending out start dates to everyone who does not trash this post on Wednesday.