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1stspotter
21st Aug 2012, 12:44
Ryanair kept doors closed while passengers sitting in overheated Ryanair aircraft ready for departure to Mallorca. The airconditioning of the airplane was not functioning. The outside temperature was 35 degrees Celcius in the shade.

From what I understand the airport handling did not have an external airco unit available because it was busy with planes on the tarmac. However Ryanair decide to start boarding. After boarding the pax had to wait for 45 minutes (some sources say several hours.) in the plane with no airco. Also door were not allowed to be opened. When a fight broke out in the plane the Military Police came and ordered everyone to leave the plane.
The pilot objected to the evacuation I understand.

Pax were flown with another plane to Mallorca.

A famous Dutch DJ on board filmed PowNed : Mental Theo redt oververhitte passagiers (http://www.powned.tv/nieuws/media/2012/08/mental_theo_redt_oververhitte.html)

more info
Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5543299/#menu52)

Halton Brat
21st Aug 2012, 12:59
What, no APU? Or Ryan policy not to burn fuel for this? Captain's responsibility for his passengers welfare?

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Aug 2012, 13:02
One might remove 'Eindhoven' and add 'Again' at the end of the sentence.

The African Dude
21st Aug 2012, 13:03
What's revolting about this is that the passengers are having to tell the cabin crew what to do. Where is the decision-making and leadership: are they banned by SOP from providing a wet paper towel from the bathroom? Where is the flight deck crew; do they even know what is happening in the back or are they trying to resolve something up front?

APU inop is a horrible situation to be in, but the safety of passengers and crew always comes first...

Basil
21st Aug 2012, 13:06
I'm presuming thhat the APU was u/s.
If you open doors for ventilation, there's the danger of someone falling out.
Similar thing happened to us in a B747. We asked for buses with a/c and put the passengers in those until departure was imminent.

Delayed Flap App
21st Aug 2012, 13:09
The Captain shoud be ashamed of him/herself. :mad: They have a responsibility to the welfare of all passengers and that includes temperature control and "management" not heating the cabin to 45 degrees. If it was 35 outside with that many pax it would be 45+ inside after 45 minutes.

No external air cond cart? No problems do not board. Try and get approval (prior to boarding) to start one engine on the bay and get the packs going. Not clearance to do that? No problem; do not start boarding.

Not permitted to open the doors after the bridge is removed? then man up use some command decision making and open the doors and have the crew guard them. Not willing to do that, do not board and cancel the flight. Simple

When you pay peanuts and treat you staff like :mad:, they act like monkeys

blind pew
21st Aug 2012, 13:17
Delayed flap app
Couldn't agree more - captain not fit to exercise his ATPL privedges but guess the IAA won't do anything.
Shame on him/her.

riverrock83
21st Aug 2012, 13:26
If they were able to board then there must have been stairs available (either the integral ones or mobile ones) so why not ask the dispatcher to get the stairs re-attached and open the door(s)?
It would still have been very hot - but would have helped a bit (especially if door open at both ends and can start a breeze going through).
I've been on a 747 before which was stuck on the ground in South Africa with air con turned to max and it was still pretty uncomfortable with apologies being broadcast over the PA system.
I suspect that they didn't provide water either (I know there is a very limited supply of bottled water on board and I understand they have been told they aren't allowed to give it out for free, or sell it when on the ground).

Glad I wasn't on that plane!

Wizofoz
21st Aug 2012, 13:36
Any reason they couldn't have started one engine?

blind pew
21st Aug 2012, 13:43
Would have meant declaring yet another mayday.

closefromtheleft
21st Aug 2012, 13:50
Don't board? Right and then miss your slot, yeah that would go up like a lead baloon in Ryanland.

It was policy to board regardless even with a slot of up to 2 hours. Can't blame the CP, just doing what the've been told. If OPS are going to dispatch an aircraft with an APU U\S in the summer season with high temps and slots about then they should make sure there's an air cart, they wouldn't dispatch the aircraft with an APU U\S to destination without an airstarter so why not an aircart? Money. You could also argue why don't EIN have another aircart.....Money

dazdaz1
21st Aug 2012, 13:53
If I was on that a/c I would request water to take my medication (tablets) wink wink. Not a lot of people know this, under EU air legislation free water has to be supplied for a passenger taking oral medication such as tablets or for dilution.

They would be give a bottle of water.:ok:

transilvana
21st Aug 2012, 13:57
Same story again with same company again, it already happened in Seville not that long ago.

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/454822-ryanair-pax-held-3-hours-50c-heat-then-evac-slide.html

1stspotter
21st Aug 2012, 14:00
Eindhoven airport does not have airbridges. As distance from apron to the terminal is short all pax need to walk to and from aircraft. Even when it rains. Except ofcourse wheelchairs.

This local newspaper reports that when all pax had boarded, after ten minutes the engines and airco were started. This lasted for a few minutes and then airco was shut off again.
Passagiers vliegtuig Ryanair oververhit - Airport - Specials - ED (http://www.ed.nl/specials/airport/11560822/Passagiers-vliegtuig-Ryanair-oververhit.ece?start=7&sort=asc)

Steps could be used so doors could be opened withour risk of pax falling out of the aircraft. No idea why this was not done.

The only thing I can think off is Ryanair wanted to save fuel by not running engines. And as the flight was already delayed wanted to blame the handling company for the further delay as pax were offloaded at the end.

Piltdown Man
21st Aug 2012, 14:03
This is totally disgraceful. To leave your passengers to stew (fry, grill, boil, fume?) is not acceptable for anything other than a short period of time. No APU means either A/C unit, Bleed Air Cart, run an engine or no passengers. The pathetic excuse of "no steps" is not valid when people are suffering from heat stress - try explaining that decision to a coroner. I hope the Dutch press heap it on the pikey's airline.

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 14:03
Years ago was on the ground at Corfu with high temps and APU u/s - loaded extra fuel and ATC approved engines running whilst waiting for slot - pax and crew nice and cool, started taxi 30 mins later - total non event.

Are people getting so brainwashed they cannot use some original thought?

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Aug 2012, 14:11
Can't blame the CP, just doing what the've been told.

Seems that way Bob.

JW411
21st Aug 2012, 14:13
Well, nowadays there are a lot of airfields in Europe that won't let you run an APU on the ground for more than 15 minutes before departure (Stansted was one) and running an engine on the ramp was an absolute no-no.

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 14:16
Well, nowadays there are a lot of airfields in Europe that won't let you run an APU on the ground for more than 15 minutes before departure (Stansted was one) and running an engine on the ramp was an absolute no-no.

But maybe you can negotiate with the Airport Operator/ATC to run engines and hold somewhere off the ramp?

Also generally there is an exception to APU usage rules when other methods of ground air etc are not available with higher OATs

paully
21st Aug 2012, 14:27
I dont think you can altogether blame the crew, when they operate and work in a climate of fear. Maybe they thought the situation would be resolved quicker than it was and were petrified of upsetting `Dublin`..

Might just show to a few more people why they are best avoiding this airline :ugh:

ShyTorque
21st Aug 2012, 14:34
My wife is the one who books our family holidays, she greatly enjoys doing so.

I have laid down just one rule:

Do not book any flights with this company. I'd rather hitch-hike.

Piltdown Man
21st Aug 2012, 14:35
Well, nowadays there are a lot of airfields in Europe that won't let you run an APU on the ground for more than 15 minutes before departure (Stansted was one) and running an engine on the ramp was an absolute no-no.

I've had that argument a few times at various airports. It's either the APU, an engine or the passengers running. It's not up for discussion. With a couple of exceptions I've run the APU, the other times I've really 'wasted' fuel by running an engine. The airports don't like it, but so what. I'm not paid to look after them. My responsibility is to the passengers on my flight.

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 14:39
If Commanders have not got the b***s (moral fibre) to make best decisions for the safety and welfare of passengers then we, as a society, have really lost the plot.

I am reminded of a time in history when certain people were asked about their actions and they said "We were just following orders".

We are not talking about passengers feeling a little discomfort here - given the conditions in the cabin with such OATs and lack of aircon, it's not inconceivable that a passenger could end up dieing. If this happened I wouldn't like to be in the Captain's shoes under cross examination.

These are not the actions of a civilized society.

Callsign Kilo
21st Aug 2012, 14:45
Dispatching with an inoperative APU alongside dealing with high outside temperatures was an RST module less than one year ago. Crews were trained in use of ground carts, external air, keeping doors open, recirc fans on, use of SPs for hot weather operations. I distinctly remember my instructor discussing up loading extra fuel and running a pack whilst single engine. Dont remember this in any course literature though!!!

Problem is FR have a policy of keeping pax on aircraft for 2 to 3 hours when awaiting slot improvement. You add the issue of EIN not having steps to facilitate doors remaining open (ie the L2 door), no external cart capable of running packs and the possibility of being too bloody noise sensitive for a prolonged s/e taxi.

Easy to say ops shouldn't have dispatched this aircraft from PMI, however I often note that the ops controller can overlook this (not enough manpower) or simply no other aircraft available to dispatch. Pretty sure engineering at PMI is next to non existent as well.

The crew would have been more than aware of the SVQ incident. I'm not sure of the whole facts, however I wouldn't regard this as being black and white. IALPA might blame corporate attitude. They may cite that the commander had been placed under pressure. I dont know? More incidents such as fender benders, declaring fuel emergencies and cooking pax may actually expose this? MOL may be arguing that not all publicity is good publicity

119.4
21st Aug 2012, 14:46
Currently doing the rounds on Facebook and probably the wrong place to post it, or even already posted, but anyway....

When flying from Alicante to Bristol yesterday, I had previously checked in on-line but because I hadn't printed out the Boarding Passes, Ryanair charged me €60 per person!!! Meaning I had to pay €300 for them to print out a piece of paper! Please 'like' if you think that's unfair... :-(

1stspotter
21st Aug 2012, 14:50
Here another short video of the incident. Mostly in dutch. You see a small girl who almost fainted because of the heath. The bold guy is a DJ and urging the handling agent to have a look inside the aircraft so they can see the situation and feel the heath. Pax seemed to be locked up in the aircraft with nobody of the crew really taking care of the pax.

Mensen willen uit vliegtuig!! #Ryanair (http://yfrog.com/0qi7jolyztppbfheiyomybgnz)

Yesterday there was another example of bad pax treatment of Ryanair. A pregnant women was denied boarding.

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 14:52
When flying from Alicante to Bristol yesterday, I had previously checked in on-line but because I hadn't printed out the Boarding Passes, Ryanair charged me €60 per person!!! Meaning I had to pay €300 for them to print out a piece of paper! Please 'like' if you think that's unfair... :-(

It may be thought to be unfair but it is in the Terms and Conditions - not saying I like it but that's the way it is.

Problem is FR have a policy of keeping pax on aircraft for 2 to 3 hours when awaiting slot improvement.

Nothing new in this - when I flew charter from 1980 onwards it was the policy to board whatever the delay in case the slot came forward - can never recall anyone having an issue with cooking pax in the cabin - in those days we would not have dreamed of treating human beings (customers even!) in such an inhumane way. Quite often Palma at the weekend in the summer there would be a 2/3 hour delay.

But then I forgot this Company doesn't take any notice of those with lots of experience!

119.4
21st Aug 2012, 14:55
Im guessing the grumble was about the cost rather than anything else......

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 15:00
Im guessing the grumble was about the cost rather than anything else......

119.4, agree but then people have a choice.

Some friends of mine were booking Ryanair to go to Prague a few years ago - when the person doing the booking got to the end of the process and saw what the credit card surcharges were for just using one credit card he decided that on principle they would not fly Ryanair and frankly I agree with him.

Until more people start voting with their feet nothing will change. Am not anti Ryanair by the way - I happen to think that more often than not they offer good value for money despite the charges etc. It's just that I would never fly with them unless they were the only carrier available on the route for all the reasons we are discussing here.

119.4, ps like the frequency - reminds me of the good old days!

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 15:10
Even at Ryanair, I'm quite sure they wouldn't sack you for asking for a set of steps to be brought to the forward and rear doors so that they could be opened.

Linerider, I agree with you there but there is more than one way of getting people to leave or tow the party line by applying manipulative pressure.

This, in my opinion, is why the crews at Ryanair desperately need union representation. It wouldn't solve all the problems overnight but it would cause the bullies in the upper echelons of the Company to alter their tactics and think twice before applying any pressure.

Xshongololo
21st Aug 2012, 15:16
To the crew. This is shameful. Captain, go and grow a backbone. I don't accept some people saying "we didn't want to upset the company"…."Hot Passengers" section in the Ops Manuals dont exist. No common sense used. This is completely unprofessional. Pax overheating and nothing being done is negligent to the n'th degree. This is just so bizarre and reflects an aweful attitude to deal with a VERY simple issue.

jackx123
21st Aug 2012, 15:20
Since the sweat glands are not fully developed in kids and infants they can easily overheat and literally pass away.

Absolutely disgraceful by the the person in command.

However, if pax calls a medical emergency :ok:

root
21st Aug 2012, 15:25
Yesterday there was another example of bad pax treatment of Ryanair. A pregnant women was denied boarding.

Of course she was denied boarding as she could not produce a release-for-flight certificate signed by her doctor.

Stick to the facts please. What happened in EIN is a very serious safety issue but we don't need people spewing half-truths, thanks.

Dan Winterland
21st Aug 2012, 15:26
Was stuck on another LoCo carrier witing in the Mediterranean sun two years ago. No APU we were told, so the doors were opened in attempt to cool the cabin. It got down to about 40 from 45ish. But I noticed we had no problems starting the engines during the pushback!

OK, you can argue we got what we paid for, but we paid quite a lot for those "Low Cost" tickets.

Hotel Tango
21st Aug 2012, 15:33
Wonder if the Captain was Eastern European. Don't take that the wrong way, it's just that some of the older ones haven't yet fully grown out of the old "thou shall not question or use initiative" doctrine they were accustomed to for a long time.

Road_Hog
21st Aug 2012, 15:45
If Commanders have not got the b***s (moral fibre) to make best decisions for the safety and welfare of passengers then we, as a society, have really lost the plot. I can trump commanders not wanting to risk the wrath of the airline management, I had one who just didn't care. About 8 or 9 years ago I was returning from Faro to BHX on MyTravel. It was late June, a sunny day and it was a lunch time/early afternoon flight. We were delayed for two and a half hours on the tarmac. It got rather hot and the aircon was not running. There was almost a mutiny before at last they brought out a small amount of water for each passenger. The captain then came out and told us (paraphrase) 'None of you have got any reason to complain, I know how much you paid for these flights'. He thought he was being funny, being kept on a plane in that heat, without water until near the end, had taken away everybody's sense of humour. I wonder if anyone could guess the name of the pilot.

ShyTorque
21st Aug 2012, 15:50
Sounds like a Richard Head.

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 15:59
I can't trump commanders not wanting to risk the wrath of the airline management, I had one who just didn't care. About 8 or 9 years ago I was returning from Faro to BHX on MyTravel. It was late June, a sunny day and it was a lunch time/early afternoon flight. We were delayed for two and a half hours on the tarmac. It got rather hot and the aircon was not running. There was almost a mutiny before at last they brought out a small amount of water for each passenger. The captain then came out and told us (paraphrase) "None of you have got any reason to complain, I know how much you paid for these flights". He thought he was being funny, being kept on a plane in that heat, without water until near there end, had taken away everybody's sense of humour. I wonder if anyone could guess the name of the pilot.

Road Hog, interesting - reminds me of a certain Captain many moons ago that authorised free drinks for the passengers to compensate for some problem (might have been no aircon for all I know). He was subsequently invited for "tea and biscuits" with a management pilot who questioned his actions. He immediately got his cheque book out of his pocket and said "Just tell me how much you want - I stand by the decision I made that day". Management pilot then started apologizing and then said that, of course, they wouldn't expect to be recompensed for the free drinks.

Trouble is in said Company they'd probably expect the money plus some extra charges for "handling".

tom775257
21st Aug 2012, 16:03
Roadhog:

<<I wonder if anyone could guess the name of the pilot. >>

Pablo????

jackharr
21st Aug 2012, 16:08
Doesn't Ryanair have a monopoly of certain routes, eg STN to DUB? So how do you avoid them in such circumstances?

fireflybob
21st Aug 2012, 16:13
Doesn't Ryanair have a monopoly of certain routes, eg STN to DUB? So how do you avoid them in such circumstances?

Jack

Plenty of options - get the train to Birmingham/Heathrow etc and then use other operators or even get the boat across.

CityFlyer also have a service to Dublin from London (City) Airport

Noxegon
21st Aug 2012, 16:29
There are very few airports you can't get to via a connection through AMS.

Burpbot
21st Aug 2012, 16:39
I wonder how many negligence cases they have against them? I can't believe the Americans are not suing after the Barcelona incident???

Road_Hog
21st Aug 2012, 16:40
Pablo? Ding, ding, give that man a cigar.

Alex757
21st Aug 2012, 16:42
This is disgusting. I can only imagine what it must of been like for those passengers.

zooloflyer
21st Aug 2012, 16:50
If the doors are closed and the airco is not used there simply is no fresh air supply to the cabin by any means..not?

People stuck in an enclosed tin can...

Aldente
21st Aug 2012, 17:13
Can't blame the CP, just doing what the've been told

And therein lies the problem ....

:ugh:

GlueBall
21st Aug 2012, 17:58
Without APU or ground air supply in a crowded cabin with closed doors, it's not just a matter of health and comfort, but a matter of toxic air.

As this airhead captain, his dumb F/O and his dumb cabin crew had ignored this obvious acute health hazard, passengers should have opened doors and popped the over wing hatches, irrespective of whether any slides were armed. Based on the video, this was an emergency situation, and any court of law would have sided with passengers' actions.

slowjet
21st Aug 2012, 18:20
I like Captains with balls.Twenty years ago, mate of mine suffered his beloved airline going bust under him. Although he was not ex RAF, did not like boats & was not a freemason, got into a horrible bucket & spade outfit. Nasty night in Palma, told he was facing a 6 hour delay (yes, six), declined boarding, kept his pax fully informed (actually went into the Terminal ). They left, about four hours later. He was summoned to HQ, told what the Company policy was; BOARD, take the delay, someone might drop out of the sequence !! Yeah, Yeah Yeah ! They tried to stitch him up, he left & went on to a very successful career with a National Operator. Not many Commanders like him are around in this dog eat dog, dreadful conditions world that we live in. But, that is what we are talking about; Command ability rather than scardeypanzies fearful of jobloss.

MrHorgy
21st Aug 2012, 18:30
Can someone point me to the instruction that says doors have to have steps in order to be opened? Our recent memo says just that the doors have to be guarded only.

EIN is a big place - there would have been plenty of places to tuck an aircraft out the way and run one engine with the pack on. 300kgs an hour is not that much to prevent a mutiny, perhaps it will encourage Ops to think more carefully about where they dispatch their aircraft.

I find that most people who do not jumpseat are the culprits, they simply do not have the appreciation of the cabin conditions with no APU that others have. I was once taught an important lesson from an LTC on a line check...

Him: Close your FD window.
Me: Why? It's hot!
Him: Then why is the APU not running? If your hot, you can damn well bet the pax are hot. Window Open = Packs ON.

JG321
21st Aug 2012, 18:37
A couple of years ago my girlfriend and I were waiting for our return flight from Kefalonia to Manchester. Spent ages waiting outside in 35+ degree heat, then got on the plane (Thomas Cook A321) and it was so hot.

We spent about 30-40 mins on there with the doors closed and no aircon. Things got pretty uncomfortable until we took off, then the familiar sight of haze you get when the air con comes on on an Airbus as we climbed out and things began to get comfortable again.

I know this wouldn't have been comfortable, but can't help thinking there wouldn't be as much fuss if this wasn't Ryanair. Just saying.

I've flown them many a time, from short trips such as Manchester-Dublin to longer trips like Liverpool to Seville. They've exceeded my expectations every time, and there have been issues (e.g. inbound flight needing to land at Madrid due to tech problems), which they've handled pretty well.

Perhaps one day they'll piss me off enough that I won't fly them again, but that time has yet to come.

1stspotter
21st Aug 2012, 18:57
Originally Posted by 1stspotter

Yesterday there was another example of bad pax treatment of Ryanair. A pregnant women was denied boarding.

Of course she was denied boarding as she could not produce a release-for-flight certificate signed by her doctor.

Stick to the facts please. What happened in EIN is a very serious safety issue but we don't need people spewing half-truths, thanks.

@Root: you obviously did not see the television program.
It was about a women who was denied on a Ryanair flight from Weeze to Bari. She DID show at checkin a fit-to-fly letter signed by her docter stating the due date, she was fit to fly and other info.

She was denied boarding because she did not have the *Ryanair* template letter with fit-to-fly info. The requested info in this Ryanair formatted form was the same as the letter signed by her docter. The only difference was the Ryanair logo missing!

The passengers tried to contact Ryanair in Ireland but they were sent to various people with no result.

Any European airline must have a very good reason to deny someone on a flight. This is not a valid reason. In a response Ryanair said that this is the company policy.
If you understand Dutch see and judge yourself
Groeten van MAX: Groepsreis in je eentje - Uitzending Gemist (http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/afleveringen/1282538#00:35:02)

ACCP
21st Aug 2012, 19:25
Why is the captain not coming out of the flight deck talking face to face to the passengers? That's what we are supposed to do where I work.

And what about those clueless cabin crew?

And what's the first officer doing in all this? Should be telling the captain "get yourself in the cabin and talk to those passengers face to face and explain what's going on!" That's what CRM is all about.

Some of those people ought to be walking the streets with a P45 in their hand. What a shambles! Does little for Ryanair's image.

737Jock
21st Aug 2012, 20:01
And RYANAIR have airstairs at door 1L...

Nobody thought of this? It's just a piss poor captain if you ask me, leaving his CC and pax clueless, airmanship zero and a weak coward not to face his passengers.

maxred
21st Aug 2012, 20:25
I have posted this before, but I cannot for the life of me understand why Ryanair, who actually had a great thing going in the beginning, treat people, their customers, the travellers, like pieces of ****...

Every flight, the same, every airport the same, people treated like something you may have trodden on.

The crew are generally brain dead, and cannot make decisions at all.

Met him once, MOL, and was really tempted to ask would it not be easier to treat people nicely. Did not, and I am not sure that I would have got the response I would have expected. Would rather walk nowadays, than fly them.

BEagle
21st Aug 2012, 20:28
Does little for Ryanair's image.

How could anything worsen the image of this despicable outfit?

It beats me why anyone would ever fly on Mikey-the-Pikey's horrible little airline.....

Just say no!

Dufo
21st Aug 2012, 23:37
If only one of the pax had the guts to open the door and inflate the slide.. screw this gig. Thanks for your respect, RYR slaverinoes.

kenhughes
22nd Aug 2012, 02:38
by BEagle: It beats me why anyone would ever fly on Mikey-the-Pikey's horrible little airline...

1. Some people don't know any better.

2. Those that do know better are happy to pay less per mile for their airfare than they would pay to get to the airport.

What beats me is why anyone would pay cattle-class fares then complain when they are treated like cattle.

Just say no!

Amen to that.

rigpiggy
22nd Aug 2012, 03:21
A few years back on a 35+ day, I requested AC huffer for an hour prior to board time they showed up 5 min prior to boarding, then pulled the hose to load baggage. I left them in the bus, until the cabin temps came down to merely uncomfortable. As PIC you are responsible for your charges, a case of heat stroke is an indication of your failure of your thought processes.

Cyberbird
22nd Aug 2012, 06:40
This whole incident - shows once again - the unprofessionality of the crew / expecially the Ryan-Air skipper - he has the obligation (!) for the welfare of the passengers, once doors are closed; NO way, i'd ever think about closing doors in the summer-heat without air-conditioning functioning -> disrespectfull to the pax an overall plainly DISGUSTING !!!:sad:

jackharr
22nd Aug 2012, 07:39
As someone has pointed out, if animals were subjected to these conditions there would be prosecutions for cruelty.

So who will get prosecuted this time? The Captain, O’Leary, The Irish AA for licensing this airline? But read on to see who might be taken to court.

Disappointingly, nothing so far (that I can find) in the British media. But this from Dutch website: http://www.btmagazine.nl (http://www.btmagazine.nl/)
The cabin crew ordered the Dutch Famous DJ to stop filming but he kept on filming. They now want to bring DJ Mental Theo to court.

As the saying goes: “You couldn’t make it up.”

Tableview
22nd Aug 2012, 07:39
With this type of publicity I wonder why people continue to fly with this outfit.

Whilst I appreciate that MoL has to be respected as an exceptionally astute businessman who runs what may be one of the world's most succesful airlines, it is time people started walking away from this type of operation.
Woman forced to pay £200 to print out Ryanair tickets


Mrs McLeod, a housewife, said: “We could have gone first class BA for cheaper.”
She said the flights had been advertised at £166 per person but once priority seat allocation, baggage fees and the boarding passes had been paid for, the family had forked out £1,650.

paparomeodelta
22nd Aug 2012, 07:48
I use FR all the time, however, I don´t work for them or have any other reason to favor them here.

On another thread "four Ryanair declares emergency" is being discussed, and that discussion merely is about different opinions and about what really happened.

In this case about cooking the pax, the crew acted criminal, that´s a no brainer.

Now my point - having said this I admit that I use FR all the time. Since 2005 I must have flown with them at least 40-50 times. I have a hobby that keeps me traveling.

During these 40 - 50 times I can not recall any memories of being ill treated, or the crew acting non-professional, and mind you, I observe very closely.

The only time someone from cabin have been harsh, was once telling people to shut up while the crew were doing safety announcement, something that I never experienced on high-end airlines, but I think is good.

Booking is OK, could be a little more streamlined.

The way they market their low prices is not really honest with all extras, but it mostly ends up much cheaper than anyone else anyway.

More...punctual, safe, in short what people in marketing call "value for money".

No hull losses in it´s history (a bit unsure about the bird strike during final in Rome, but that incident was handled with great airmanship)

Detail emerges on Ryanair birdstrike accident at Rome Ciampino (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/detail+emerges+on+ryanair+birdstrike+accident+at+rome-320045/)

Ryanair 737 inquiry to explore similarities with Hudson A320 bird-strike (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ryanair-737-inquiry-to-explore-similarities-with-hudson-a320-bird-strike-322256/)

Adhemar
22nd Aug 2012, 08:42
Few summers ago, whilst working for RYR, I had a similar situation. On stand ready for boarding but no ground conditioned air available and a limitation on APU usage imposed by airport regulations (no longer than -5min prior to off block). OAT around 35 degrees Celsius. Refused to start boarding process until either ground conditioned air available or authorisation to use APU outside the airport regulations received. Kept pax in a nicely airconditioned terminal until things were sorted out, causing a significant delay.

At the end of the duty wrote a small report explaining circumstances and decisions made. Was backed up by the management. No stress and no management pressure. It is a captain's call, even in RYR.

Basil
22nd Aug 2012, 09:46
Is that Pete?

lasernigel
22nd Aug 2012, 09:54
This kind of event is rare

No the thing is it's becoming more common. Happened to me a few weeks ago in Amsterdam with KLM. 30 mns no A/C, as someone said if you treated animals this way there would be implications, but human cattle class doesn't matter. BTW not just KLM has happened with other airlines as well, including AA, Alaskan and Lifthansa to me personally over the last 3 months.:ugh:

kapton
22nd Aug 2012, 09:55
Mikehotel152, a lot of what you say is probably true in that a lot of good people work for Ryanair. But, Mikey the Pikey has put himself out there with his attitude of he could not care less about his customers or governments, so his company is going to attract more than its fair share of negative comments. He knows that no NAA or regional government is going to complain, as they are making a lot of money out of Ryanair. The EU is fine about it as it has a large business which relies on subsidies, and its patronage to prosper. Before there are screams of it's a stand alone airline, regional governments pay Ryanair to fly to their regions So all in all nobody is going to do anything about it. Mikey the Pikey is not going to lose a moment's sleep over a few disgruntled passengers, when he knows that the vast majority of passengers are subsidising his company twice. Once through the EU, and by buying tickets. Then, quite a number of its staff pay for the privilege of working for Ryanair. Quite a few of them even have GCSE's. You've got to admit that it is a brilliant business model. I wish I had thought of it first.

lambert
22nd Aug 2012, 09:58
Can somebody please define "flight delay" in terms of the EU regulations. I am under the impression that, provided the passengers have been boarded and the doors are closed within the EU delay times (basically 2 or 3 hours for intra EU flights) then the flight hasn't been delayed - and the airline is not responsible for compensation in terms of the EU rules. Is this not the motivation for keeping passengers onboard with the doors closed?

Sober Lark
22nd Aug 2012, 10:02
I've been cooked to medium rare by those guys in Emirates stranding me at Ras Al Khaimah recently. I've been medium grilled on Indian Airlines in in Mumbai. I've been smoke cured on an Air France 146 and quick frozen on Singapore Airlines at 350 but nothing ever happened to me on Ryanair.

flyme273
22nd Aug 2012, 10:20
Travelling as a family my wife's name appeared on the ticket in its short form - similar to Mike instead of Michael - Ryanair demanded a "change of name fee" euro 180.
Made a complaint which was stone-walled.
Daylight robbery.

I have decided with my feet.

Snafu351
22nd Aug 2012, 10:38
I've taken 5 Ryanair flights in my life, all poor experiences. (None of the flights were by my choice.)
When total costs are considered they are not cheap, unlike the false advertising, the planes had poor and cramped seating and less importantly, the "refreshments" onboard are at explotative prices.
I now refuse to fly with this "airline" or any low cost outfits.
Anybody who does fly with this shower is a fool, contributing to the destruction of customer rights and privledges solely to the benefit of greedy pieces of dog do like the pikey. I'm sure he laughs heartily at his "customers" (and staff from reading this forum!) every day as his bank balance swells.
It costs real money to fly planes properly, playing less than the cost of the flight is stupid, eventually the customer will have no rights and it will be their own fault.
Welcome to todays and tomorrows society, as long as the Premiership is on Sky it's all good...:rolleyes: :ugh::mad:

antiskid marks
22nd Aug 2012, 10:56
This airline is a shame. When will someone take their AOC away that's the real question!

The main keypoint of this airline is that it's a lot easier to break the law than to prove you did it. Moreover, since the IAA is not doing anything against that (which to my taste cannot be real unless having "common interests" with their members or members of government), I don't see how it'll change.

How do you prove a captain has been fired after disembarking passengers due to extreme heat? Is every single captain phone recorded by labor law authority? Do you have a thermometer of health and safety authorities onboard to monitor?Which national authority is it up to?No, this captain was fired because he was 3 minutes late 5 years ago.Ok then nothing to do with the overheat situation.... How come some airlines have their incident reports published openly on the internet whereas Ryanair don't? How many hundreds of similar incidents happen before one reaches the headlines of the news?How come do some airlines have computerised loadsheets and ACARS which leave electronic traces everywhere with time/date and exact content?

Saying that passengers should make their own opinions, really? facing the largest airline in Europe, do you still have as much choice as before? do you have the choice of guessing all the hidden costs? And then if it's up to passengers to decide then why do some people have legal responsabilities to face? why do regulations and auditing authorities exist? Do you react the same when you go to the doctor if they give you a prohibited medication? Is it up to you? Do you really have to know all about medication if you're sick because it's just your responsability to chose your doctor?Does a doctor can do whatever he wants with no control?

Airline industry has just become years after years the playground for a lot of krooks. And compared to banking industry where everybody now has a really dark opinion of it, when one talks about airlines, the only word that comes to the mouth of people is how much crew are overpaid, how never they work, how many advantages they have and how powerful they are etc etc..and how brave is management willing for the benefits of all to cut prices.Just unbelievable.

Years and years of big big lies and corruption

JW411
22nd Aug 2012, 11:00
Please tell me that English is not your first language.

Surrey Towers
22nd Aug 2012, 11:03
Ryanair ARE getting away with rule breaking time after time. They care little for what their pax think and do what they do for the monetry benefit of the airline and Michael O'Leary's profits.

But.......there ARE rules that even they cannot break to make profits and which are controlled by the authorities.

Regarding the aircon. Ryanair just like any other airline have a duty of care for their passengers. This includes, after the doors are closed, that ventilation MUST be provided for the comfort of passengers. That will apply even if the aircraft is still at the gate, and most definitely if it is taxying. At the gate they should keep the doors open if the APU is not running. While taxying they will have to start the APU to provide the air, no ifs no buts. However, Ryanair seem to flout the rules. That is why taking the details down as they occur, with PRECISE times, is important and what the aircraft is doing i.e. waiting for take-off and delayed.

The Captain has a duty of care to consider his passengers at all times and if, as in the case quoted, he is delayed with engines running he is bound to give ventilation to the pax. Having noted all the details as above it should then be reported to the CAA at the first opportunity with a definite request to be fully informed of the outcome.

Ryanair are giving the industry a bad name lately and it is time they were stopped.

The latest scandal that a family were each charged £60 for a boarding pass the the mother forgot to print is typical of Ryanair fleecing their customers. That Ryanair rules were broken is, according to them, justification for such a hefty charge for printing a boarding pass that takes seconds. Everyone forgets something at sometime. Ryanair can't accept this and clearly believe that no one should forget anything. Pathetic.

MaxBlow
22nd Aug 2012, 11:13
Greed - a managements desease it seems that it now infected flight crews at Ryanair as well.

Shytorque, are we married to the same woman? SOP in our house too. Ryanair is not only a NO but a F*** NO !!!

Any prove that the APU was u/s ? Maybe not running for greedy reasons.

And to that Capt. and his crew...I don't know what to say. Shame on you!:yuk:

Common sense is not build into the FMS and also not included in our manuals.:ugh:

SOPS
22nd Aug 2012, 11:14
I would not mind betting that some of the Ryanair pax were paying more to park the car at the airport, that they were for the ticket. You then have to start asking yourself.."Something wrong here??"

nivsy
22nd Aug 2012, 11:44
By contrast some pax may have also payed a fortune...it is just depending on when you book with RYR mostly that dictates price no?

Slightly off thread but flew BA A319 at start of month LHR/GLA. All pax boarded then told delay due to tech issue which meant no Air Conditioning. They said it was "company policy" to board all pax even though the fault was known and that engineers would be required. Sat on board for over an hour, no drink no nothing!

captplaystation
22nd Aug 2012, 14:35
As we are meandering off-thread into an anti-Ryanair rant I may as well offer my 6pence worth.

Flew with them from BCN the other day. It is immediatelty apparent that the Ground Staff have "targets" to meet vis a vis baggage fees, as they spent an inordinate amount of time utilising their cardboard template to fleece the customers of €43 (or whatever it is nowadays for a bag " confiscated" to go hold-bound.) The sickening part is that the Harpies they employ seemed to be picking bags based on the attractiveness of its female owner rather than the bag size. One unfortunate chica chose instead to utilise the metal frame rather than the "box." Her bag was literally 1 cm more than the frame height, they demanded the dosh, she inverted it. . result ! the bag was 4-5 cm inside the frame BUT the little castoring wheels were 1 cm out in 4 small areas. . .they demanded the dosh again. Her "significant other" was filming this sad scene on his i-phone, but. . . I imagine the response if he contacts the white-house :mad:. Sitting in Row 1 (€10.80 to you Guv) I saw many much larger bags passing by, at least if they were consistent one could perhaps accept, but . . . .mainly male owners :rolleyes: ugly women REALLY don't like attractive ones.
Departure was delayed whilst crew reseated some pax, it seems that they forgot to specify (alongside the €10.80 charge) that overwing exits must not be occupied by children/disabled persons. Never mind, they had already paid, so if rejected on board, Ryanair trousers the money :D . . . .good luck with getting the € 10.80 returned.:= Malaga airport departure area ( & the TV screens above the departure gates used by RYR in BCN T2 ) proudly state that "it is your legal right to carry your Duty Free purchases on board in addition to your 1 item of carry on luggage", well, Yes & No. Unfortunately the box you ticked during the reservation process was a contract with Ryanair, not with AENA Duty Free Shopping S.A so don't expect a very polite reception if you push this message at the gate. Seems the Spanish Govt has joined the long list of those who have fallen out of love with RYR, the chickens are coming home to roost, one by one.

Sunnyjohn
22nd Aug 2012, 14:43
I find it very strange that such an incident should appear nowhere in the UK or Irish press - or anywhere else, for that matter. There's a bit from this CyberBlog:
RE: Ryanair Aircraft overheats passengers at Eindhoven Airport
They had a delay of almost 5 hours, it was indeed 38 degrees celcius on the tarmac. In the plane (where the air-conditioner was of) the temperature got even higher, some said to +- 45 degrees. Ryanair refused to turn on the air-co, and everybody wanted to get of the plane but the crew told everybody to sit down. After 3 hours the doors where opened because a manager was called, the passengers where taken off the plane, and put on another plane that brought them to their destination.

This indeed has been all over the news here, and a lot of people are angry at Ryanair.
One cannot avoid the thought that, first, there is something else about this which we're not party to and, second, that the incident is deliberately being kept from the UK, Irish and general English-speaking press. Very strange . . .

riverrock83
22nd Aug 2012, 14:59
I believe there is a limit on the time you can sit on the tarmac in the USA:
Putting a Limit on Tarmac Time - NYTimes.com (http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/putting-a-limit-on-tarmac-time/)

EU regulates everything else - surely its only so long till someone has the idea to do this too...

Evanelpus
22nd Aug 2012, 15:12
I dont think you can altogether blame the crew

Sorry mate you are 100% wrong, the blame lies entirely with the crew.

PIC should be thoroughly ashamed of him/herself. Grow and pair and do the right thing for once in your Ryanair life!

closefromtheleft
22nd Aug 2012, 15:52
I'd invite anyone who just 'blames the crew' to come and work for Ryanair and abide by the numerous Memos regarding this issue and then you'll be in a better position to make an educated comment. You would then have a clearer insight as to how things work in Ryanland.

Evanelpus
22nd Aug 2012, 16:05
I'd invite anyone who just 'blames the crew' to come and work for Ryanair and abide by the numerous Memos regarding this issue and then you'll be in a better position to make an educated comment. You would then have a clearer insight as to how things work in Ryanland.

Oh, stop it, you'll have me crying in a minute!

So, selling your soul to the devil trumps common courtesy and decency does it?

I say again, grow a pair and become a decent human being.

Lord Spandex Masher
22nd Aug 2012, 16:21
I'd invite anyone who just 'blames the crew' to come and work for Ryanair and abide by the numerous Memos regarding this issue and then you'll be in a better position to make an educated comment. You would then have a clearer insight as to how things work in Ryanland.

Why don't you just tell us what they are?

I bet you a brazillion quid it doesn't say confine people in a sweltering metal tube for hours at risk of serious health issues or death.

jackharr
22nd Aug 2012, 16:52
"Over 8 million passengers a month choose to fly with Ryanair."

My emphasis. It is very often not a matter of choosing Ryanair over its competitors; there is no alternative.

My nearest airports which fly to Dublin (where we wanted to go) are STN and EMA. From both airports, the only carrier DUB is Ryanair. We were not actively CHOOSING to fly with Ryanair. There really was no other convenient way to fly to DUB. Yes long drive to BHX or LUT perhaps, but for goodness's sake!

The online booking procedure with Ryanair was difficult (seemingly impossible to avoid "voluntary" insurance). We gave up and went to travel agents. Ryanair will not deal with travel agents (and you should hear what our one had to say about Ryanair!) A very helpful young man sorted out a surface route.

So in a wonderful twist, Ryanair in being so awkward chose NOT to let us use them. Serves them right. The trouble-free journey was made by train and Stena Line Ferry.

WallyWumpus
22nd Aug 2012, 16:58
closefromtheleft

I fly for RYR.

There are no circumstances that I can dream up that should have allowed this situation to develop. Entirely within the control of the flight crew.

fireflybob
22nd Aug 2012, 17:18
I'd invite anyone who just 'blames the crew' to come and work for Ryanair and abide by the numerous Memos regarding this issue and then you'll be in a better position to make an educated comment. You would then have a clearer insight as to how things work in Ryanland.

Doing "things right" is management - doing the "right thing" is leadership.

How to care for the safety and welfare of passengers isn't just following a set of "procedures" - not every situation is covered by memos etc.

For one reason or another this type of incident points to a lack of leadership - having the b***s to do what is necessary. But it would seem the upper echelons of this Company don't encourage leadership because they feel, for one reason or another, that this would threaten them.

Recently I came across the following which struck a chord with me:-

I remember a great line in the movie Kingdom of Heaven when an English Knight was bestowing Knighthood on his men before a Battle. He was listing knightly virtues and was demanding his men live by those virtues. The line in particular that struck me was “always tell the truth, even if it leads to your death” wow...... powerful stuff.

I would rather face the sack having done the "right thing" for my fellow human beings.

CelticRambler
22nd Aug 2012, 17:33
"Over 8 million passengers a month choose to fly with Ryanair."

My emphasis. It is very often not a matter of choosing Ryanair over its competitors; there is no alternative.

My nearest airports which fly to Dublin (where we wanted to go) are STN and EMA. From both airports, the only carrier DUB is Ryanair. We were not actively CHOOSING to fly with Ryanair.

Wrong emphasis jackharr - you are actively choosing to FLY with Ryanair. You could have driven to Holyhead and got the ferry, or taken the bus, or bought a rail-and-sail ticket, but for your own reasons you chose to FLY to Dublin. Having made that decision, you went on to make a comparative analysis of the route pairs available and chose to use one offered only by Ryanair. You - like me and everyone else who buys a Ryanair ticket - eliminated several alternatives before finally settling on that purchase. That's choice.

Opting out of insurance is easy - select "No insurance required" in the first drop-down menu and confirm your decision to opt out on the next page. Done, no charge.

ayroplain
22nd Aug 2012, 17:49
Every flight, the same, every airport the same, people treated like something you may have trodden on.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously have never flown with Ryanair and are not qualified to comment on their operation. I am very well qualified so to do. I have done approx 80 flights a year for more than 6 years with Ryanair and never, not even once, have I had a problem or was I treated in the fashion you say. I most certainly would not continue to fly with them if the experience was as you state.

You cannot generalise just because, as in this case, the particular flight crew totally screwed up, no doubt about that.

In the case of the woman who had to fork out for not printing her boarding passes she is either just an idiot or else she didn't bother to read the various emails she was sent. If I was her I wouldn't have my mugshot all over the Daily Mail for everyone to laugh at.

I still see passengers arriving at the gate with two or more bags when they have been repeatedly told only one is allowed. Can they not read or are they just thick?

It is inevitable that, from time to time, in an organisation as big as Ryanair somebody will let the side down but the overall experience is excellent and I find the flight attendants much more acceptable and friendly than on some other airlines that claim to be better. But you'd have to fly regularly with them to know this rather than jumping on the Daily Mail bandwagon every six months or so.

Ambient Sheep
22nd Aug 2012, 17:54
Wrong emphasis jackharr - you are actively choosing to FLY with Ryanair. You could have driven to Holyhead and got the ferry, or taken the bus, or bought a rail-and-sail ticket...

Ermmm, he did:

So in a wonderful twist, Ryanair in being so awkward chose NOT to let us use them. Serves them right. The trouble-free journey was made by train and Stena Line Ferry

Nearly There
22nd Aug 2012, 17:56
The trouble-free journey was made by train and Stena Line Ferry.

Jack


Similar here Jack, my other half is Irish and Im English and FR is pretty much our only choice, after a to do with a bag that I had used for 5 years then one day it was to big and they stung me for more than the cost of me to travel, we looked at the ferry for future trips, P+O LPL-DUB-LPL £200 for two of us, car filled with luggage free breakfast, free afternoon meal, free hot and cold drinks and fruit during the crossing...I vowed then FR would never get another penny out of me.

sean1982
22nd Aug 2012, 18:31
Right here are the facts:

Plane arrived late from PMI, approx. 2hrs. Onblock 12:28 with a CTOT 12:35. At 12:49 they're informed about a new CTOT 12:52. All pax on board 12:50, but due to APU inop and use of airstart they missed their slot. New CTOT 13:39. Around 13:20 PAX started complaining, after swapped their plane for the NYO plane and same crew + Pax continued.

No suh thing then 3 hour delay with pax in the aircraft. The only thing the pax should have done is wait about 9 min more and they would have been on their way airconditioned and all. Instead they chose to stage a mutiny and get themselves another 2 hours delay.

riverrock83
22nd Aug 2012, 18:42
Right here are the facts:

Plane arrived late from PMI, approx. 2hrs. Onblock 12:28 with a CTOT 12:35. At 12:49 they're informed about a new CTOT 12:52. All pax on board 12:50, but due to APU inop and use of airstart they missed their slot. New CTOT 13:39. Around 13:20 PAX started complaining, after swapped their plane for the NYO plane and same crew + Pax continued.

No suh thing then 3 hour delay with pax in the aircraft. The only thing the pax should have done is wait about 9 min more and they would have been on their way airconditioned and all. Instead they chose to stage a mutiny and get themselves another 2 hours delay.
How dare you let facts get in the way of a good Ryanair bitch :E

Mind you - if the crew had told the passengers the predicted time line, would they not have just waited patiently? What is always annoying is not knowing whats going on and when the end will be to your predicament.

Jaq
22nd Aug 2012, 18:44
Why all of this whinning. :{:{

If your stupid enough to travel with Ryanair........... You deserve what you get.

Darwin's theory of evalution. The stupid shouldn't survive. := :}

Shiiiimmmmmppppllllleeeessss.

maxred
22nd Aug 2012, 18:44
You have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously have never flown with Ryanair and are not qualified to comment on their operation. I am very well qualified so to do. I have done approx 80 flights a year for more than 6 years with Ryanair and never, not even once, have I had a problem or was I treated in the fashion you say. I most certainly would not continue to fly with them if the experience was as you state.

Obviously you have some inside information on me, obviously knowing my travel and life itinery. Silly me, I did not realise I had no idea what I was talking about.

You obviously with 80 flights a year, for 6 years, are a RYR Gold Club Member. Lucky you. Travel up front do you???? I do, and know what I am talking about.

The Outfit is :mad:, and if you cannot see it, then suggest you open your eyes. Everyone else seems to.....:hmm:

Sunnyjohn
22nd Aug 2012, 18:52
Interesting. If this was the case, and I have no reason to doubt you, can I ask why the passengers were dealt with in such a way that they became mutinous after a comparatively short time? Was this due to lack of information, inattention of the crew, a lack of understanding due to language difficulties (often the case)? With respect, I fail to see why the passengers should have dissolved into this state if they were properly dealt with and consistently informed with regard to their status. It's sounds from your post that either you were there, or you have a good report from someone who was. I am a regular and generally contented Ryanair flyer and like several others who have posted here I have no complaints about the crew or the airline.

fireflybob
22nd Aug 2012, 18:54
Right here are the facts:

Plane arrived late from PMI, approx. 2hrs. Onblock 12:28 with a CTOT 12:35. At 12:49 they're informed about a new CTOT 12:52. All pax on board 12:50, but due to APU inop and use of airstart they missed their slot. New CTOT 13:39. Around 13:20 PAX started complaining, after swapped their plane for the NYO plane and same crew + Pax continued.

No suh thing then 3 hour delay with pax in the aircraft. The only thing the pax should have done is wait about 9 min more and they would have been on their way airconditioned and all. Instead they chose to stage a mutiny and get themselves another 2 hours delay.

So there lies part of the problem - Ops not having the foresight/manpower to ask for a realistic slot time with the knowledge that the aircraft was going to arrive on chocks circa 1230. This could have been fairly accurately predicted after the aircraft had left Palma so that when it arrived there was a high probability of obtaining a slot time which was achievable with pax on the a/c with no aircon and doors closed for a minimum of time. (With airstart etc how can you stand a fighting chance of making CTOT 1252 when ready at 1250, also bearing in mind the discretion on slot times is really for ATC?).

Even 30 minutes with doors closed in these OATs is obviously excessive - as soon as the revised CTOT of 1339 was known why not open the doors or request ATC early start and push to take delay at holding point with engines running?

Am not saying the customer is always right but if I had been seated on that aircraft with young children, especially after a 2 hour delay, I would probably of been of the same sort of mindset as these passengers.

Finally, we don't know how much information was communicated to the passengers and whether it was communicated effectively.

Sunnyjohn
22nd Aug 2012, 19:11
Yes, but if Sean82 is correct, and we have no reason to suppose that s/he is not: All pax on board 12:50, but due to APU inop and use of airstart they missed their slot. New CTOT 13:39. Around 13:20 PAX started complaining, after swapped their plane for the NYO plane and same crew + Pax continued.The passengers started compaining after half an hour. That's when they should have been dealt with tactfully and been kept fully informed. If they continued to be so argumentative that the flight was delayed for another two hours, there must have been something seriously wrong with the way in which they were dealt.

Config
22nd Aug 2012, 19:15
How very, very, very sad! Whining, moaning, slating, venting and bashing - about what... Not a lot really! The end result is NOTHING!

Do a Ryanair search on this forum. You'll find that there are Ryanair bashings going back to 2004. Same subjects, probably the same members saying the same things.

Haven't you got anything better to do? Go home to your families and enjoy life! Fly with Ryanair or don't fly with Ryanair; work for Ryanair or don't work for Ryanair, but don't waste your time sitting in front of your computer achieving nothing. Maybe it makes you feel better in yourselves - good for you... Oh dear!

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

P.S. I haven't looked at PPRUNE for a few years. I'll check again in 2015. See you all then!

boeingairbus1981
22nd Aug 2012, 19:24
Last year Palma-Liverpool with Ryanair we were 2 hours sitting onboard, door closed waiting for atc clearance and no one was allowed any water. Lots of kids upset, adults angry but rules said the flight crew couldn't open the drinks before take-off.

maxred
22nd Aug 2012, 19:45
This is not whining nor bleating. It is about how passengers, paying passengers, are in general treated. Not well, in general. Two years ago, flight from Torp, I was a passenger. Young kid in front of me, bursting for a pee. Just about to get up, Flight deck sticks on fasten seat belt signs. Kid told to return to seat. Slight rumble, lasted about 3 minutes. Signs stay on. 25 minutes later, signs still on, kid now in tears.

It had been flat calm for the past 20 mins. I stick on cc call button. She came up, said that kid could not go until sign goes out. I ask her to call flight deck, and release sign, if possible. Cant do that she says. Kid wets himself, all hell breaks loose.

I was angry, there had been no need. Stayed back, spoke to flight crew. Forgot to put it back on states f.o. I just looked at him. Nuff said.

Problem is, there are a lot of these "incidents", it would appear. And yes, it may happen on other carriers.

Sunnyjohn
22nd Aug 2012, 20:11
Config:How very, very, very sad! Whining, moaning, slating, venting and bashing - about what... Not a lot really! The end result is NOTHING!First -bye bye - see you in 2015.
Second - I fly Ryanair regularly and I have no complaints. But I do wish to know exactly what happened here and the only way we are going to find out is to post here on Pprune until we do so find out.

Config
22nd Aug 2012, 20:35
No problem with that, but this is a 'Rumour Network'. You're looking in the wrong place!

737-NG
22nd Aug 2012, 20:54
Having flown Ryanair a couple times I can tell you that it s common practice to overheat the cabin anyway. Probably like some nightclubs do, they hope to make you sweat and have you buy their expensive refreshments.

antonov09
22nd Aug 2012, 21:05
Having flown Ryanair a couple times I can tell you that it s common practice to overheat the cabin anyway. Probably like some nightclubs do, they hope to make you sweat and have you buy their expensive refreshments.


Absolute bull**** post.

Depone
22nd Aug 2012, 21:50
737-NG

What a ridiculous thing to say. Go back to Flightsim.

I can assure you that there is no such policy at Ryanair and the thought wouldn't occur to flightcrews. In fact, most requests from the cabin crew while in flight are for the temperature to be raised even if the cockpit temp gauges show sensible readings.

Maxred

You had a bad experience and the cabin crew on that flight acted contrary to common sense and policy by not asking the flightdeck to turn off the belts. If we forget to turn off the seatbelts after a period of actual or expected turbulence we usually get a reminder ding from the cabin crew.

1stspotter
22nd Aug 2012, 22:23
Someone who flew as passenger on the Ryanair plane coming from Mallorca to EIN reports on the Eindhovens Dagblad forum that the ground CPU of the aircraft was unserviceable for some time. They were seated in the very same plane for 1,5 hours without airco and no drinks handed out by the crew.

taken from Passagiers vliegtuig Ryanair oververhit - Airport - Specials - ED (http://www.ed.nl/specials/airport/11560822/Passagiers-vliegtuig-Ryanair-oververhit.ece?start=2&sort=asc#reakties)
translated by Google:

It is true that it was ridiculously hot in the plane. Me and my girlfriend were in the previous flight on the way to Eindhoven in the same plane. We have over 1.5 hours stopped at Palma without air conditioning. This was not acceptable because the temperature was very high. What a faulty air conditioner has to do with a low cost carrier I understand totally not as an argument. You may assume that this simply is present, especially on a scheduled flight towards Mallorca. Additionally stewardesses gave the same as in the film acknowledges that the "ground CPU" for some time dt is defective and a known problem. at least they would be able to distribute water or other cooling or just passengers in a conditioned room waiting. This was in addition incredibly uncomfortable simply an attack on the health of the passengers. Think of the young children, the elderly etc. That people here then respond with the argument "yes, you get a low cist carrier", I therefore complete idiot! May I therefore expect that a wing just falling off? Or just that this aircraft, as in the KLM if the carrier therefore be maintained.

captplaystation
22nd Aug 2012, 23:26
APU's do go U/S, it is not a no-go item. For the crew it IS a major pain in the hole, as it invoves them (too) sitting in a sweaty metal box, additionaly, they are at the mercy of handling agencies who may (or not) provide Ground Electrical Power/ Air Start Unit/ Ground Conditioned Air, in a timely fashion.

A bit like the Barcelona " Road Traffic Accident", I wonder if the CC really communicated the "concerns" to the FlightDeck Crew fully & promptly. :hmm: For sure, with a modicum of imagination they could have anticipated them, but. . . .with minimal outside assistance from Ops/Handling they are sometimes focussed on something else (like trying to negotiate a new slot or whatever)

Ryanairs policy as regards CC recruitment is VERY simple " can/will you pay for the course/uniform ? OK you are in" IQ/Language skills/Basic communication skills . . are an Add on.
To this I add my apologies to the greater percentage of RYR CC who do a great job of presenting a fairly cheerful public face whilst working for an employer who treats them like absolute SHAT. . . . I fly 3 X a month with you folks, & I do recognise the sh1t you have to deal with on a daily basis from p1ssed off customers AND your employers. . "respect" :ok:

Adhemar
23rd Aug 2012, 04:59
Seems to me that the “Darwinian selection process” (sic) has been very mild to some of the contributors on this thread. But then again, “Darwin’s theory of evalution” (sic) has some well known flaws.

CafeClub
23rd Aug 2012, 05:05
If I want a new car and wander on down to the Great Wall Motor Company (for eg), and lay down my money on their offering I would *not* expect it to be identical in every way to the offerings made by Audi or BMW or...

After forking out much more for one of the latter products, I would expect that if the aircon broke down not only would it be fixed NOW :mad: but I would be given a replacement car. :=I would also be hugely irritated - and rightly so - that such a top-end car was so immediately defective.:eek:

However, if the a/c collapsed on the Great Wall, while I would also expect to get it fixed, I wouldn't be as surprised nor as disappointed. :sad:After all, I paid much, much less for the vehicle, the cost has to be made up somewhere.

While I can also pick holes in my own analogy, the purpose using it here is that to illustrate the hypocrisy of the travelling public in general.

In almost every other aspect of their consumer lives people happily accept that spending less, (as a general rule) buys less. Fast-food, cars, hotels, clothing, PCs, phones... but when it comes to air travel, somehow that acceptance goes out the APU.

Leaving aside those that have no choice due to carrier availability etc., it astonishes me that people fly LCCs and then expect equivalent service (with all attendant benefits and level of treatment) to that of a full-cost airline.

Sure, being stuck in a cabin for that long with no a/c sucks, but hey, it ain't a Rolls, and you sure didn't pay for Rolls Royce service. While it seems reliable, reasonably efficient and doesn't seem to be falling out of the sky on a daily basis, you have to accept that the price of reduced fares is that stuff-ups like this will occur occasionally.:ugh:

The risk of it happening is just the other side of the cheap air fare coin. So spend more on a more expensive airline where - if it does happen - you are much more likely to be able to vent spleen and have someone listen to you.

This is no dig at RYR, just as it isn't a dig at Great Wall Motors. Both are what they are - cheap, mass-produced, mass-marketed products that hope to undercut expensive competition. That cheapness comes at a cost somewhere. :rolleyes: Live with it, or pay more.:zzz:

CafeClub
23rd Aug 2012, 05:09
Adhemar -

The problem is that for the past several dozen years, well meaning but misguided people have been trying to outdo themselves with legislation, regulation and rules that hope to negate the predictions of Darwin's evalution [sic] theory. :ugh:

jackharr
23rd Aug 2012, 05:19
"Opting out of insurance is easy - select "No insurance required" in the first drop-down menu and confirm your decision to opt out on the next page. Done, no charge"After some 20 minutes of trying various combinations, still no drop down box. It probably was there but Ryanair sure made it difficult to find in the hope that I would give up. I did.

But it begs the question: "Why have to take positive action to opt out of something?" It should be positive action to opt in. Well that's easy to answer - Ryanair are more likely to rip off the punter this way.I wonder if Ryanair actually read threads like this? A few tweaks to their operating methods and they might win over a lot more passengers. If Ryanair listened, many of us would wish them well. But at the moment........

WHBM
23rd Aug 2012, 06:01
Leaving aside those that have no choice due to carrier availability etc., it astonishes me that people fly LCCs and then expect equivalent service (with all attendant benefits and level of treatment) to that of a full-cost airline.
Where does this nonsense come from that everyone on Ryanair has paid very little. I've taken a number of sectors with them, as others here doubtless have, where the fare was just what you would expect from a mainstream carrier. How else do you think they have accumulated such cash reserves in their financial accounts ?

So if I have paid £200 for Bristol to Dublin, one way, am I entitled to air-conditioning on the ground at Bristol, or not ?

Tableview
23rd Aug 2012, 06:22
But it begs the question: "Why have to take positive action to opt out of something?" It should be positive action to opt in.I read recently that under EU law, this is to be changed so that opting-out will be the norm. No doubt though it will be another badly mandated and loosely applied piece of legislation that the operators will find a way of flouting and the reality for the cusotmers will remain unchanged.

sitigeltfel
23rd Aug 2012, 06:45
Problem is, there are a lot of these "incidents", it would appear. And yes, it may happen on other carriers.

I fly RYR regularly, and have never had any issues. Some CC can be a bit surly, but they do not have a monopoly on them. There have been a few weather diverts, but the buses were always waiting to get us there.

The worst ever treatment I had was when returning to LHR from Mauritius a few years ago with Virgin Upper Class. The car arranged by our agents, Carrier, was late and we knew we would miss the check-in time by a few minutes. I called the Carrier rep at the airport and he spoke to Virgin staff who confirmned it would not be a problem as there was a 45min delay anyway. We got to the desk 9mins late and were told we could not check-in as we were "late". No amount of remonstrating with Virgin staff by the Carrier rep did any good and the aircraft subsequently left 1h 10mins late without us. He later told us that someone had overridden the gate staffs promise, having seen the chance to sell on two Upper Class Tickets to standby pax at a very high price.
Carrier were very good about it and put us up in a top hotel suite until the next available flight a few days later. The Virgin CC on the later flight were horrified when we told them, but our letter to Virgin about the treatment went unanswered.
So, the moral is; no matter how much you pay, they can still **** on you.

jackharr
23rd Aug 2012, 07:08
Tabelview:I read recently that under EU law, this is to be changed so that opting-in will be the normIf that is so, then it would require deliberate, positive action to opt out of something that is offered. Failure to opt out will incur costs/ hassle/ etc. Are you sure that the EU law isn't the other way round?

But it happens all the time: "Please tick the box if you don't want to receive special offers from us and associated organisations". That sort of thing really p*sses me off. If I miss the tick - and who can say that they never miss a box on an online form? - I get inundated with spam from associated organisations. "This offer is specially for you Mr.Harrison".

Didn't they say years ago that computers would make our lives easier? Sure, computers have enabled us to do things we couldn't do before (such as see weather satellite images), but made life easier....?:bored:

Tableview
23rd Aug 2012, 07:27
Sorry, my previous posting at 0822 was the wrong way round and has now been corrected.

I meant I read recently that under EU law, this is to be changed so that opting-out will be the norm, but although I knew what I meant, I said it the other way round.

(Note to self : don't post until first cup of tea is inside body!)

Depone
23rd Aug 2012, 07:45
After being stung by Ryanair five years ago when we forgot to print out boarding cards, I thoroughly check and uncheck boxes when buying Ryanair tickets. It he vast majority of case, Ryanair either provide a route that no other Airline flies or their flights are cheaper. You don't have to fly with them if you don't want to accept the terms and conditions. :ugh:

All this talk about 'you pay low cost fares, you get a second rate service' is also tiresome and partially nonsensical. When you pay low fares you receive a no frills service, but it is not a bad A to B service if you can raise your expectations from the heady days of expensive, govenment subsidised and exclusive Airline travel of yesteryear to the simple bus service provided by modern short haul operations.

The comments that you shouldnt be surprised about APUs being u/s on low cost operators because it's a second rate service rankles with me. For years Ryanair have had the most modern and well-service fleet in Europe. That's what enabled them to make such a healthy profit. Technical faults with the aircraft were rare and were fixed very quickly.

However the Ryanair management's treatment of passengers is now rivalled by its disdain for its staff, such that many experienced pilots and engineers have left. Added to this, the remaining engineers are working to rule, with the result that many aircraft are now flying around with technical faults (such as broken APUs) for longer than used to be the case. It's not an immediate safety concern but it will lead to more and more of these kinds of events.

It's a short-sighted money grabbing management at Ryanair....:rolleyes:

911slf
23rd Aug 2012, 07:57
I was on a Thomas Cook A320 at Kalamata a few years ago when we had a problem starting because:

1 The aircraft APU was inoperable
2 The ground power unit failed because it overheated (temperature was 45C)

The doors were left open and the stairs left in position. The cabin crew stood by the doors. The pilot explained what was happening and apologised for it. He went so far as to invite us to complain to Thomas Cook for dispatching an aircraft with APU already inoperable.

We were advised to keep the blinds down to reduce solar heating of the cabin. Cabin crew offered free water to anyone who wanted it. We were informed that the ground power unit was to have its radiator drained and refilled, preparatory to attempting to restart it. We were advised that if this did not work, because of crew duty time limitations the aircraft would be held until the following day, and if it came to this, Thomas Cook would arrange overnight accommodation.

I know they say you get what you pay for, but Thomas Cook is hardly a premium rate operation.

I would think twice and three times before flying Ryanair. I would ask 'Is my journey really necessary?'.

Evanelpus
23rd Aug 2012, 08:00
P.S. I haven't looked at PPRuNe for a few years. I'll check again in 2015. See you all then!

Please hurry back when you've got less time.:D

jackharr
23rd Aug 2012, 08:00
TableviewNote to self : don't post until first cup of tea is inside body!But far less likely to make an error than when posting with two or three beers inside body:)

Groundbased
23rd Aug 2012, 08:51
I work with quite a few EU directives in my line and the trend I have observed is towards positive opt in. By this I mean that whatever the "added value benefit" is the default position should be that you don't have it and are not agreeing to take it unless you positively take action to do so. I would expect no insurance unless I ticked a box to agree to it.

CafeClub
23rd Aug 2012, 09:10
Where does this nonsense come from that everyone on Ryanair has paid very little.Obviously, flying a LCC does not ALWAYS mean that "everyone has paid very little". Sometimes due to routes, availability, time to departure etc the fares are going to be reasonably high. Market forces and all that. :rolleyes: Same way a weak dishwash coffee at the airport is waaaay more expensive than the same elsewhere.

Grasped by the S&Cs, you pay what you have to.

However, electing a LCC as your mode of travel (regardless of ticket price) means that you have indicated an acceptance of a lower standard of service - and that you are content paying for all the extras like boarding cards (ahem), water, aforementioned weak coffee and so on when on board.

Fine. Fair (or is that Fare) enough. But when the water is warm or the seats jammed together or it's full of boozy stag refugees, or you are stuck at the gate with no APU in 35 deg heat... don't complain. It's one of the risks that goes with the territory.

That's all I was saying. Buy a pair of Levis or buy some copy. But don't complain the latter isn't as good as the former. :ok:

BRE
23rd Aug 2012, 09:11
They run a Saab 340 three times a day between DCA and JST. The Saab apparently does not have an APU. Also, JST does not have ground air.

When we boarded last July, the first thing the flight attendant told us was to keep down the shades as there was no airconditioning while on the ground. It was very hot inside the plane, and she was visibly suffering from the heat (apparently not her first round trip that day). It was also reassuring that the Captain came on PA, also apologized for the heat and announced that the A/C would be fully working once they had reached cruise height. So this was 20 minutes from boarding to take off, and another 20 - 30 minutes until temperatures began to drop somewhat. Even on arriving in DCA, it was still stuffy and hot inside the plane.

antiskid marks
23rd Aug 2012, 10:08
Pax pay cheaper....that's a matter of marketing hammering and lies.

I had to fly the other day, was stunned by a quite expensive price at first sight. Checked other airlines, AF return was almost half price the FR one way. Not taking into account the free bag and the quality of service. A different world!

Depone
23rd Aug 2012, 12:23
911slf

What you describe as happening on that Thomas Cook flight is in fact Ryanair procedure too. Open and man doors and close window blinds if no APU or ground air.

In the last 24 hours a Ryanair internal company memo had reiterated that procedure. The question is: why did this crew apparently not follow procedure.

paidworker
23rd Aug 2012, 13:01
" Pax pay cheaper....that's a matter of marketing hammering and lies. "

Two years ago 60% of our inbound clients arrived to Spain via Ryanair , always choosing the lowest cost. This year it is 15% ,, Ryanair are no longer especially over the higher season months a low cost carrier and in fact are often on page 2 or 3 of websites who conduct comparisons for specific dates. This is for flights into various spanish airports and is based on 400 appx flight ticket bookings in 2012.

Im eternally glad too that i dont have to reccomend them to clients who are cost sensitive.

O Leary was asked directly in a University Lecture in TCD why he was such an asshole and why he treated on occassion his staff and client so bad and he replied simply that it was good for business.

It sounds like in this case the crew didnt follow procedure but the take away ( as usual ) is that there is a steady flow of disgruntled people from passengers to crew to industry professionals lining up to slap Ryanair in the face and eventually little sins come to roost.

Yaw String
23rd Aug 2012, 17:09
Sorry professional colleagues in Ryanair..but this incident speaks so much about how one crew, on one day, abandoned reason, training, and due responsibility to pax and crew...
The cabin staff appear to have been left helplessly at the mercy of a desperate joe public, allegedly held hostage in extreme environmental conditions...

My problem with this is that, had I been there, I would have been arrested..having taken initiative to open doors/emergency exits myself.!

What a bunch of..........:mad:....:ugh:....

Jobsworth does not belong on flight deck!

P.s. Loved the video in thread #1...Will surely be used in future cabin staff training courses...A karate blow to the right arm maybe.:}...to make him drop the video camera!!:=
p.p.s..Now they want to take cameraman to court...Yep, let's just shoot the messenger!

flyingtincan
24th Aug 2012, 16:59
In my opinion all this talk of low cost being the same as low quality is rubbish.I have found that easyJet and Ryanair both do the business - i.e they get methere, usually with a fanfare, and in safety. If I want a sandwich or drink Ican buy one and if I don't want one (or bring my own) then I don't have to.

HOWEVER - CafeClub in post #132 gave a clue to the problem with thereference to ‘boozy stag refugees'.

It's not the airline that's the problem, it's the passengers.

The lower cost allows a lot more people to fill the planes travelling to differentplaces and more often. It’s that just sometime you wish that some of them were sittingjust a bit further away from where you are.

Tableview
24th Aug 2012, 17:13
easyJet and Ryanair both do the business - i.e they get me there,
It's not the airline that's the problem, it's the passengers.


There is a difference. I have observed over many flights and many years, that EZY's cabin crew are in the majority, consummate professionals, mature, and trained in handling difficult situations and passengers. This is generally known, so people who want to cause trouble and get themselves legless on flights to stag/hen weekends are less likely to fly EZY because they know they wont get away with it.

FR's crews do not come up to the same standards, and that's putting it mildly.

For those people for whom cheap and nasty works, FR might do the business. I'm not one of the 75 million suckers they carry every year - and I won't be.

sean1982
24th Aug 2012, 18:18
If you haven't flown FR yet and you never will, you must be a very sharp observer if you can spot through the aircraft skin that the CC are only mediocre :-/ FR cabin crew are as professional as anywhere else, they just do not have the SOP's on their side

Tableview
24th Aug 2012, 18:55
I have flown on FR. Once. I did so for a couple of very specific reasons, one of which was to be able to speak from first hand knowledge.

Whether the CC are unprofessional or whether the low standards are a result of the company's policy is irrelevant, the point is that the standards are low and something I do not intend to expose myself to again.

It was a ghastly experience and to say the least the cabin crew were tired and scruffy looking, had minimal command of English (or Spanish - it was a flight to Spain), disinterested, and sullen.

Fortunately, the existence of Ryan Air keeps a lot of people off the airlines I like to fly on, so it has its purpose!

NWSRG
24th Aug 2012, 19:01
I'm not one of the 75 million suckers they carry every year - and I won't be.

Totally agree Tableview. Had one too many poor experiences with FR. From a rugby scrum on boarding, to surly cabin crew, and the constant attempt to extract money from passengers for a plethora of 'added' services.

I know that their Terms & Conditions outline all the detail, but FR (and many other big companies) know that we don't read all of that. And they use that as an excuse to apply all sorts of unreasonable clauses and charges, knowing that the public will be caught out. This is simply wrong...it is immoral to knowingly take advantage of people in this way. And the people I really feel sorry for are those who are vulnerable...they may be elderly, or naive, or simply need a 'cheap' fare...they don't realise what they have signed up to until they are checking in, and being told they must pay extra for the privilege etc.etc. Sadly, most large companies do similar these days, but FR are masters at it.

I have now decided that I will never use FR again, unless I have no practical alternative. EZY are a much nicer bunch, and will be even better when they introduce allocated seating.

CelticRambler
25th Aug 2012, 09:04
I have flown on FR. Once. I did so for a couple of very specific reasons, one of which was to be able to speak from first hand knowledge.

n=1 :D

Out of interest, what was the p value in your study? :rolleyes:

Hotel Tango
25th Aug 2012, 10:12
Fortunately, the existence of Ryan Air keeps a lot of people off the airlines I like to fly on, so it has its purpose!

My view exactly which I have expressed elsewhere on PPRuNe. Unfortunately, more and more carriers feel forced into adopting the attrocious RYR model in an endeavour to remain competitive. At the moment we still have a choice. My fear is that a few years down the line there will no longer be a choice. I guess that's when I'll stop flying intra Europe altogether.

Cameronian
25th Aug 2012, 10:41
A couple of months ago I flew Ryanair for the first time. Their timings to and from Bristol happened to suit me better this time than easyJet's so, on a whim (Erica Roe, if you can remember that far back!) I decided to try them. For a first-timer their website is a nightmare, not helped at all by a natural paranoia fed by fear that their ambiguous wording throughout is deliberately aimed at trapping you into something you don't want.

The scrum at check-in/baggage drop, whichever you will, is dreadful and would cost so little - mainly effort rather than cash - to make tolerable.

The onboard decor is certainly distinctive but the only problem I had was in reading the safety information on the back of the seat in front because it was too close for my newly sixty years-old eyes! I can always get a card a bit further away. Apart from these points the flight was perfectly unworthy of complaint. The seats were comfortable, there were no drunks nor any noisy behaviour. The hosties were great, given the limitations of time placed upon them. The red wine was truly shocking but the hostie saw my face and, unrequested, asked if I'd like my money back. There, that surprised you all! She just felt sorry for me.

All in all I cannot say that there was anything to raise a fuss about. Even with all of the surcharges, it was still very cheap - probably cheaper than easyJet that day but I didn't look to find out because their timing didn't suit.

I like easyJet, especially their hosties (is that word allowed these days?) but I have to say that on my two flights the Ryanair hosties were great too. I don't see me changing from easyJet as my default choice but I won't be frightened to go the other way if it's necessary.

Over the past few years I have bought a couple of hundred or more easyJet tickets for my family and myself with no issues. I am not qualified to comment upon other risk factors, made much of by some posters on PPRuNe, which might make easyJet the better choice.

I didn't get overheated, even under the collar, at any point.

blind pew
25th Aug 2012, 16:13
Whilst ryanair isn’t perfect by a long chalk, it, along with Laker and Easyjet they have revolutionised travel in Europe.
I have had a 36 hour delay with ryaniar due to snoclo and the ground staff couldn’t have been more helpful whereas I had a similar problem from a Swissair when the staff went and hid and left 500+ pax to sort themselves out.
I stopped flying with the lemon sucking irish dwarf after a disastrous flight from terminal 5 which involved a health and safety issue prior to delayed boarding, an aircraft with paint flaking off, a “senior” first officer who proudly announced that he had found a dent in the aircraft, threadbare carpets, an entertainment system that didn’t work and on the way back from Dubai we were parked at a coaching stand and only one coach was used to unload a full 777 in the rain.
This was the same airline that had one aircraft land having used ALL of the consumable fuel and no one dared to put it in the press.
Journalists getting free upgrades?

My first experience of Easyjet ten years ago was terrible but now I prefer to fly with them than a flag carrier.

Cityjet is excellent.

Aerlingus has lost its surly cabin crew since FR got on the scene but has gone the low cost route for double the price.

I was treated like an idiot by AF ground crew after they cancelled my flight on commercial grounds.
This year my wife and I were badly bitten by fleas on Delta – KLM handled the complaint – load of T@@sers as was their airline when I flew with them. (same group as AF).

I was sold £80 of invalid phone cards on FR and although I had help from a senior crew member I lost the money – felt that I had been scammed- but small fry compared to the convenience of flying with them.

The bit that erks me is the authorities – whether IAA, CAA, DGAC or FAA that ignore legitimate safety problems and do not do their job – especially in my experience - the IAA – along with the rest of the Europeans.

Sadly the statement that you get what you pay for ain’t true.

What is a disgrace was the captains behaviour but then I have had to intervene as a FO several times with incompetent captains on flag carriers and know of colleagues who have forced management to take action against idiots.

Nicholas49
26th Aug 2012, 12:59
Instead they chose to stage a mutiny and get themselves another 2 hours delay

Have you actually watched the video posted on the first page of the thread? Did you notice the sweat on the passengers' faces? Are you aware of the fact that those extra 'nine minutes' that those pesky passengers couldn't forgo could have cost a child's life?

To the crew, and in particular the Pilot-in-Command (oh the irony! As s/he sits locked safely in the flight deck with the window open while the cabin crew remonstrate with the angry, hot passengers) of this flight and aircraft: Shame. On. You.. Union recognition or not, you did not earn the right to wear your fourth stripe that day. You're the commander. Take charge. Man up. Grow a pair. Blindly following your company's SOPs will be no defence if you're in a court of law faced with a manslaughter charge. Absolutely pathetic.

[Excellent work by the Dutch DJ for: a) filming the incident; b) putting it on the net so that it hopefully becomes viral.]

Buster the Bear
26th Aug 2012, 13:29
I have flown twice with Ryanair this month. On both flights the cabin crew were excellent. How the Number 1 kept so cool when a few passengers stood up as we were vacating the runway I will never know. Both flights were on time, wrong, one flight arrived 10 min early.

If you stick to Ryanair's rules, you are in for a very pleasent experience. My only gripe is that the front row seat are not big bum bear width as they have integral folding tables in the arms.

T-21
29th Aug 2012, 07:51
I'am holidaying in Dorset this year, stuff the whole airline and airport experience its a shambles now . Simples don't use any of them ,vote with your feet and something might get done. :*

Rwy in Sight
29th Aug 2012, 11:06
It seems that the airline under consideration maybe a very good one to be used for a trip A to B when things go fine but a very bad choise if things turn bad (weather or mechanical delays).

Is this accurate? Has any PPRuNer experience when things went bad requiring re-routing or accomodation of pax and the airline in question handled well?

FliegerTiger
29th Aug 2012, 11:14
I had a situation like this in EZY a couple of years back. VERY high temperatures on the ground at PMI, no APU, and the ground air conditioning wasn't working - pax on board, closed up waiting for a slot/improvement. Temperature in the cabin was 32 degrees C and rising.

Called ATC and explained the situation, asked to start early one engine on stand for some cool air, they OK'd it, problem solved.

Skipness One Echo
29th Aug 2012, 12:11
Boarded an APU-less Air France A318 for an on time departure on LHR-CDG last Saturday knowing I was looking at a two hour delay. Active and moving thunderstorms in the area had thrown the program into disarray with lots of refiling on other SIDS only for the cells to move by the time the plan got to ATC. Credit to the flight crew, Captain left FD open and came out to apologise. He spoke to handling agent asking to depland and was told no and worse, the air con truck was on the blink and they had to borrow one from Alitalia for engine start!

So they did their best. The Captain ordered loads of bottled water and personally helped the cabin crew load it. The rear door was cracked open, roped off and guarded and we were invited to take turns at standing on the jetty where it was much cooler. The result was a "we're all in it together" mentality and nobody got angry, ill or hacked off. Making the best of a bad thing is the best that they could do, with any connecting passengers being met at CDG.

I was quite impressed.

spinning
29th Aug 2012, 15:13
What are the legalities if someone wanted to get off the aircraft after an hour or so sitting on the ramp due to discomfort from heat, cold etc…?

Can the Capt. refuse to disembark a pax ?

Was 5 mins away from doing it myself a few years ago but got the APU started just in time !

gordon2uk
29th Aug 2012, 17:34
I remember quite some time ago when british midland used to operate on the lhr-ams route being given a bottle of water as soon as we got on the fokker. When we were all seated the pilot told he had no air-con working and when we got time to complain about this. I know it is only a short flight but it did get very hot with a few passengers being sick. I know me and my partner did complain but all we got was an acknowledgement card!

WallyWumpus
29th Aug 2012, 17:46
Spinning,

There are no clear legalities here, other than (and I speak as RYR crew) you will not be detained on one of our aircraft.

If you decide to offload yourself due to delay/heat/change of plans you will be allowed to go without argument. As much as you may not to travel anymore we would not want to try to "force" you to stay, as you may well become disruptive (as I would in your shoes) and it is a situation nobody wants.

Obviously once off you cannot come back.

EZY7117LPL
29th Aug 2012, 19:16
I dont work for Ryanair but I think Ryanair are quite good, if you follow the terms and conditions which are made very clear and you have to tick to say you've read them when you book, you wont get stung by any extra charges. The ones that you are likely to cause you to incur a charge are made clear anyway even if you don't read the main terms and conditions, they're not hidden away. They're aircraft are perfectly fine, virtually always on time or early, professional crew etc and very good value for money. They get you comfortably from A to B at a very good price.
I do prefer easyJet and I think they've got a great product in between loco and full frills but they are often a lot more expensive.

If this incident had happened on any other airline no one would have heard about it. It seems the common misconception that a low cost airline cuts corners is still very much some peoples attitudes.

Sober Lark
29th Aug 2012, 20:48
For the results of an Airline award such as Built4Speed mentioned to be free from bias they would have to select members of the travelling public at random. As they don't do this the results are pretty useless. I've participated and can say with all sincerity that their invite was hardly random and in reality those who respond to such questionnaires probably have some motive for doing so.

Some Ryanophobic persons don't consider the full population of 77 million satisfied customers who have flown this year in their arguments but prefer to draw conclusions often without sufficient thought, based on malicious self satisfaction gained from reading about the relatively few dissatisfied customers.

Thunderbirdsix
29th Aug 2012, 20:51
I have to say that I am amazed at the anti Ryanair comments on this board, I have flown Ryanair for a few years now and hand on heart never had a bad experience with them, nice professional cabin crews the only thing I dont like is the yellow interior of the aircraft. I have a friend who works as cabin crew and she loves the job, you have to give credit where its due the way they turned the airline industry on its head with everyone trying to follow them with cheap flights.

I was in Malaga recently and it was some sight looking out the terminal window at a line of Ryanair planes, two Aer Lingus and a British airways jet on the ramp not a Spanish plane in view, dont forget they are huge employers in the airline business and we should thank them for what they have done and the employment they provide and not be knocking them at every opportunity. It would be a very sad day if they ever cased operating.

stallspeed
30th Aug 2012, 02:30
MOL's latest scheme, maybe. If you can't get away with making 'em pay for the using the toilets, let them sweat it out. Lightens the load, too :}

737-NG
30th Aug 2012, 02:55
Hate on me as much as you want, but that was my experience flying Ryanair.
Maybe you guys get a different treatment in your cozy cockpits, but just because you disagree doesn't mean my statement is "bull****" or comes from "flight sim" (very stupid remark by the way, as we are talking comfort, not flying on a computer) I tend to feel hot faster than most people, so I turned to my fiancé who happens to always be cold, well...she was sweating!
Cabin overheated (ok it was winter, but nevertheless too hot) I didn't even recognize the NG cabin interior, everything looked fake and cheap,and I won't even talk about the constant harassment to buy this or that.
Only flew that "airline" because it was the only one flying direct Girona from "Paris" Beauvais. My experience was much different from flying Air France CDG to Barcelona a couple months earlier.
Even for 30 bucks round trip, will not do it again.

JW411
30th Aug 2012, 14:43
I have used Ryanair five times to get from A to B with my family. I confess that the online booking procedure is not the most user-friendly so I now let the Family Controller deal with that.

I have to say that on every occasion, we have been transported from A to B efficiently and on time. I have a particular problem in that one of my sons is wheelchair-bound but that has never caused the slightest problem.

It is interesting that most of the Ryanair detractors are very familiar and frequent visitors to the pprune website.

As a retired TRI/TRE, I know for a fact that 40% of the Ryanair applicants are turned down. It must be quite difficult for them to admit (especially to themselves) that they have been turned down by Ryanair.

Perhaps they should be looking in their respective mirrors in the morning instead of hitching the muckspreader on to the back of their Fergie tractor every day?

RAT 5
30th Aug 2012, 16:23
"dont forget they are huge employers in the airline business and we should thank them for what they have done and the employment they provide and not be knocking them at every opportunity. It would be a very sad day if they ever cased operating."

I wonder if you also buy your clothes from far east sweat shops. Surely you must know, especially as M'OL has told you, that it's not possible to make a profit on tickets <€50. Think about what goes on inside the company and with its employees if such profits can be generated from such cheap tickets.

fireflybob
30th Aug 2012, 16:37
I have a friend who works as cabin crew and she loves the job,

Am sure that goes for the vast majority - they just don't like the way the Company treats them!

JW411
30th Aug 2012, 16:48
I really don't know why I am responding to this but here we go:

I was a DC-10 captain with Laker, and as we all know, Fred went bust.

I went for an interview with an American company some time later. It all went well.

An old ex-RAF friend attended the same interview and we compared notes afterwards in the pub.

The first thing he said was "You are going to have to pay for your own uniform".

I was not really interested in the unifrom.

"They wear single-breasted jackets" said he "and they don't wear hats".

I spent $135.00 on NW 38 Street at Miami and came out with a complete uniform, lots of shirts and two pairs of pants.

I went on to fly the DC-10 on the American register for many years and my colleague went on to fly Jetstreams between Milan and Birmingham. It has to be said that his company paid for his uniform.

Bengerman
30th Aug 2012, 16:58
Thunderbirdsix wrote:
I have to say that I am amazed at the anti Ryanair comments on this board, I have flown Ryanair for a few years now and hand on heart never had a bad experience with them, nice professional cabin crews the only thing I dont like is the yellow interior of the aircraft. I have a friend who works as cabin crew and she loves the job, you have to give credit where its due the way they turned the airline industry on its head with everyone trying to follow them with cheap flights.

I was in Malaga recently and it was some sight looking out the terminal window at a line of Ryanair planes, two Aer Lingus and a British airways jet on the ramp not a Spanish plane in view, dont forget they are huge employers in the airline business and we should thank them for what they have done and the employment they provide and not be knocking them at every opportunity. It would be a very sad day if they ever cased operating.

The mills of Lancashire in the nineteenth century were huge employers and it seems to me that there lies the business model for O'Leary's outfit.

The Lancashire mills also made money, they also dominated their piece of the market and they also treated their employees like sh1t.

In addition, they were pretty tough with their customers as well, is a pattern emerging?

Bengerman
30th Aug 2012, 17:07
blind pew:

This was the same airline that had one aircraft land having used ALL of the consumable fuel and no one dared to put it in the press.

So, having used ALL the consumable fuel it presumably landed by using unconsumable fuel! :ooh::confused:

fireflybob
30th Aug 2012, 17:13
dont forget they are huge employers in the airline business and we should thank them for what they have done and the employment they provide

Reminds me of when a colleague commented to me many years ago "We are lucky to have a job!" to which I replied "No - they are lucky to have such an experienced, trained, dedicated, loyal and professional workforce to keep the Company going!"

JW411
30th Aug 2012, 17:35
fireflybob:

That is about the way I used to think when I flew with Laker. It was a wonderful part of my flying career.

We all knew each other and it was all wonderful.

However, on the day that we went down the tubes we had 11 DC-10s, 3 Airbus 300B4s and 5 BAC 1-11s.

Can you just remind me how many 737s (or DC-9s) that your last company operated?

Ryanair curently operate 200 Boeing 737-800s.

That is a considerable fleet by any state of the union.

To successfully run such an organisation successfully, a high quality of training is necessary.

AROUNDGO
30th Aug 2012, 19:29
Thunderbirdsix,
either you are from management :ugh::ugh::ugh:, either you don't know what you are talking about.
There is not much you can give credit at Ryanair. If your friend is happy in Ryanair, it is probably because she hasn't been there for a long time: harassing the passengers 20 times a week selling all their crap is nothing funny. About all the jobs created, none of them provide security nor social benefit. All the staff are treated like s**t. All these jobs were stolen to other airlines that couldn't compete with a management cheating and lying and bullying their people.
Ryanair is a social disaster to the society and to individuals.
Apply this model to the rest of the economy and you will see how life will be enjoyable. Exploit people, abuse them to get a bit more money. :ugh:

fireflybob
30th Aug 2012, 19:47
Can you just remind me how many 737s (or DC-9s) that your last company operated?

Ryanair curently operate 200 Boeing 737-800s.

I was with Ryanair for 5 years!

I made my comment, as far I can recall, when flying for TEA around 1990 when the industry was going through a tough period.

I believe the real assets in any Company are the people who have the skills to fly, maintain and train etc. Without such people these Companies cannot exist. I include almost everyone in a company when I make these remarks - even the person who services the washroom has to have certain skills to do so efficiently and effectively.

Sunnyjohn
30th Aug 2012, 22:46
I wonder if you also buy your clothes from far east sweat shops. Surely you must know, especially as M'OL has told you, that it's not possible to make a profit on tickets <€50.This is disingenuous. Everyone knows that low-cost airlines make their money by offering a few cheap seats, getting you onto the website and then selling you a return flight for £200 because the cheap one requires you to get to the airport at 4 a.m. or arrive at midnight.

blind pew
31st Aug 2012, 07:42
Bengerman
Trim fuel.....
Which meant it landed outside of the c of g limits and risked standing on its tail.

WallyWumpus
1st Sep 2012, 02:02
JW411,

300 737's, not 200.

rethymnon
1st Sep 2012, 08:40
I stopped flying Ryanair when I realised that I couldn't understand the on-board announcements anymore.

Bengerman
1st Sep 2012, 22:17
blind pew.......

Trim fuel.....
Which meant it landed outside of the c of g limits and risked standing on its tail.

Are you suggesting that there are aircraft flying around carrying fuel for no other purpose than to ensure that the c of g remains within limits?

What aircraft type is this?

blind pew
2nd Sep 2012, 08:40
Not any longer sadly.
It had a pointed beak and in my opinion the most beautiful aircraft ever to take to the skies.
Never a real success cause the yanks couldn't build one and it's demise was accelerated by the frogs.

Bengerman
2nd Sep 2012, 09:53
Ah! Old history!

Fair enough........I, personally, will never vote Tory because Pitt the Younger introduced income tax.

Heathrow Harry
2nd Sep 2012, 11:10
it's simple

MOL has built a successful airline - how many people can say that in the last 20 years in the Western World?

he's done it by stripping out all the romance and as many of the costs as he can - he treats it as a bus company

those of us who feel flying is something different should not apply to work there

Personally I find his aeroplanes grubby and his personal attitude to the customers to be awful (he doesn't NEED to act like a s***) but they fly to places others don't, they are at least as dependable as anyone else and they can be remarkable value whilst "better " airlines are going out of business every month

but there is no romance

esa-aardvark
2nd Sep 2012, 12:12
Is this thread R-bashing, or something to do with them
broiling their passengers ? I am interested to know what
the circumstances really were, and does one have rights
under the circumstances originally described (btw, Ryanair or
any airline). Broiling does not seem to me to be a sucessful
business model for the long run.

fireflybob
2nd Sep 2012, 12:52
MOL has built a successful airline

HH, in my opinion that's highly debatable.

You could say the practice of sending children up chimneys in the Victorian age was "successful" - whether it was ethical is another matter.

Mr Wilson
8th Sep 2012, 17:42
Does anyone work for Ryanair? Has anyone worked for them? Does anyone actually know the details of this incident?
Speculation is not big or clever. Ryanair published many memos about this type of situation and the dangers of a hot cabin. The situation was much more complex and muddy than these simple mutterings suggest.

There is not a climate of fear either. Some people like Ryanair, some don't. Some moan a lot, others enjoy the job. Just like any other airline or business. Maybe those that never worked there (or even flew a real plane) should hold back a little on their opinions if they don't have first hand experience of it.

Anyway, happy flying everybody. This was my first response for 5 years. See you in another 5. Until then, I'll see you in the sky!

cwatters
11th Sep 2012, 17:49
How's this for a back of the envelope calculation...

A319 cabin width is 3.7m x 24m long. If you assume it's a cylinder the volume works out at 258 cubic meters. Lets say half is taken by the hold, seat, floors, bins, passengers etc leaving a volume of air about 129 cubic meters.

If there are 124 passenger that's about 1 cubic meter = 1000L of air each.

Google says that a human produces about 1.7 cubic feet = 50L of C02 per hour. So after 1 hour sealed up without any ventilation the CO2 level would be..

50/1000 * 100 = 5%

Toxicity of Carbon Dioxide CO<sub>2</sub> Gas Exposure, poisoning symptoms, exposure limits, and Links to Toxic Gas Testing Procedures C02 Gas toxicity CO<sub>2</sub> exposure limits (http://www.inspectapedia.com/hazmat/CO2gashaz.htm)

"Breathing rate doubles at 3% CO2 and is four times the normal rate at 5% CO2.

Toxic levels of carbon dioxide: at levels above 5%, concentration CO2 is directly toxic."

The maths appears to suggest CO2 levels could get worryingly high if there is no ventilation.

Have I made a mistake in my sums?

PS: I picked the A319 at random.

smileandwaveboys
13th Sep 2012, 20:59
Does anyone work for Ryanair? Has anyone worked for them? Does anyone actually know the details of this incident?
Speculation is not big or clever. Ryanair published many memos about this type of situation and the dangers of a hot cabin. The situation was much more complex and muddy than these simple mutterings suggest.

There is not a climate of fear either. Some people like Ryanair, some don't. Some moan a lot, others enjoy the job. Just like any other airline or business. Maybe those that never worked there (or even flew a real plane) should hold back a little on their opinions if they don't have first hand experience of it.I work there, and I reckon it has a strong fear culture... And very few like it there - it's just a matter of finding another more suitable job.