Is there Travel Insurance that covers private flying?

[Bearcat F8F]

Hi guys, I'm going to the US for a month to build some hours. Is there any travel insurance that I can buy that would cover flying airplanes abroad?

And if not, what do people generally do in this case? Just go and take the risk?

Thanks

[achimha]

You probably need renter's insurance. AOPA (http://insurance.aopa.org/aviation/non-owned-insurance) is one of the major outfits, it costs $175 for a year.

['India-Mike]

Got mine from Traffords last year for seaplane flying in Canada. IIRC £80 but that covered the whole trip not just the flying element.

[BackPacker]

What specifically do you want to be covered? You will probably find that by far the majority of risks are already covered under existing policies.

For instance, I have an ongoing travel insurance policy. Amongst other things, it covers additional hotel/telephone/meal costs should your transport break down.

In Dutch, this was described as "motorrijtuig" (engine-drive-vehicle, ie. a car, motorbike or similar). When I got stuck in Duxford with a Diamond "computer says no" aircraft, and had to stay an extra night because of that, I called my insurance agent. They negotiated with the insurance company and graciously changed the wording of the policy to "motorvoertuig" (engine-transportation-vehicle) so that my stay would be covered. (As it turned out the additional costs were only 30 euros or so above the excess on that policy so I really did not get a lot back. But it was fun anyway.)

[D120A]

BackPacker,

All British travel insurance policies specifically exclude travel in any aircraft other than scheduled passenger services by a recognised airline. Handy, that, for those of us who want to aviate while on holiday.

Once I was refused travel insurance for my family because we were travelling to the USA on the scheduled weekly RAF VC-10. When I pointed out to the insurance companies that this was the aircraft on which the Queen flew on state visits, and that the crews would be from the same squadron, they refused to budge. We went uninsured that week. I concluded that the British insurance industry's inflexibility was matched only by its ignorance.

[dublinpilot]

Presumably the real concern is medical costs arising from an aviation accident.

Everything else should be covered under a standard insurance policy.

[BackPacker]

At least in NL, medical costs are covered under my normal health policy. Although there is some sort of cap on that for countries where health costs are significantly higher than in NL. I think that excess is covered in my travel insurance - but this is indeed definitely something to check out carefully.

The other significant thing to watch out for when doing "dangerous" stuff like flying, is the cost of SAR. (This equally applies to skiing, canyoning, deep water diving and a few other outdoor sports that may lead to high SAR costs.)

All British travel insurance policies specifically exclude travel in any aircraft other than scheduled passenger services by a recognised airline.

What I'm wondering is whether only the act of flying is not covered, or whether the coverage for the whole holiday is invalidated if there's an act of private flying involved?

Suppose you fly privately to Kissimmee (FL), then take a taxi to Disney, and get robbed while at Disney. Will your insurance refuse payout because there was a private flying component involved, or will they pay because the private flying was clearly not related to the incident?

Same for that VC-10 flight. I can well imagine that that flight itself would not be covered (because it should be covered under the VC-10 operators insurance) but for the subsequent holiday, it should not matter whether you arrive by VC-10 or B747, should it?

So back to the original question. What exactly do you want coverage for, that is not already covered under some other policy?

[tmmorris]

Surely what he wants covered (as did I) was medical expenses following an aircraft accident? That could bankrupt you. I would recommend Traffords.

What they won't cover is 'renter's insurance'. You need to get that separately (covers you for your liability to the aircraft owner in the event of a fault accident)

Tim

[englishal]

All British travel insurance policies specifically exclude travel in any aircraft other than scheduled passenger services by a recognised airline. Handy, that, for those of us who want to aviate while on holiday.
I think it is more along the lines of "other than as a fare paying passenger". Therefore it doesn't exclude stuff like Grand Canyon helicopter flights or air taxi operations.

Anyway, Traffords, about £100pa for an annual travel insurance policy which also covers flying in private aeroplanes as a passenger or pilot.

[proudprivate]

Is there any travel insurance that I can buy that would cover flying airplanes abroad?


Yes, but you need to specify what you want covered and up to what amount ?

* damage to the plane you rent while flying it yourself
* damage the plane causes to third parties while you fly it
* injury to the passengers while you fly it
* injury to yourself while you fly it
* injury to yourself while someone else flies it

* any limits and deductables you're willing to accept on your claim
* do you just want to cover medical expenses or do want lifetime disability pay too

etc,etc,etc...

As Backpacker said, some of these are covered by existing policies. Some of those come even with your credit card.

In my experience, UK insurers are a lot more expensive than continental European ones. But they get nervous once the stakes move beyond £250K. That is usually the upper limit of your cover.

[proudprivate]

Traffords, about £100pa for an annual travel insurance policy which also covers flying in private aeroplanes as a passenger or pilot.


Silly question of mine, but what does that cover ? Surely not accidental death or lifetime disability payments ?

[dublinpilot]

At least here "travel insurance" generally means insurance that covers things such as:

Travel delays
Lost baggage,
Cancellation
Medical expenses when abroad.

The first three don't really apply to a GA trip, though they could apply to a trip to the US (for example) on an airline, and you then do some flying while in the US. Delays on your commerical flights would be covered, but they aren't going to play for an extra night in a hotel because the weather wasn't VFR.

That leaves medical expenses as the big one left.

A "travel insurance" policy, wouldn't generally cover any damage involved to the aircraft or third parties.

If you read the wording on the policies carefully you see that they generally have a defination for an insurance trip. The one I have (which doesn't cover private flying) requires a journed of more than 150km and at least 2 night booked accomodation or some sort of public transport tickets proving the journey.

In relation to the private flying they usually say that certain parts of the policy won't pay out for claims in relation to these activities. So if you do some flying while on holiday, and then you return airline loses your baggage, you can still claim on that.

dp

[Bearcat F8F]

Surely what he wants covered (as did I) was medical expenses following an aircraft accident? That could bankrupt (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7369317&noquote=1#) you. I would recommend Traffords.

What they won't cover is 'renter's insurance'. You need to get that separately (covers you for your liability to the aircraft owner in the event of a fault accident)

Tim
Yes exactly, thanks.

With regards to renters insurance, I always assumed that the school from where I rent, would have this priced into the price of rental?

[Bearcat F8F]

Got mine from Traffords last year for seaplane flying in Canada. IIRC £80 but that covered the whole trip not just the flying element.
They got back to me with a quote for £165. That covers me up to 35 days. Doesn't sound very cheap!

[BackPacker]

Delays on your commerical flights would be covered,

Actually when I called my agent about my situation, their initial reaction was "when the airlines have a delay which necessitated an extra night in a hotel, then the airline will have to pay for that, so we don't". And that was before these new EU regulations came into place that requires the airline to pay in a lot of situations when there's a significant delay.

So I think the travel insurance will only pay for an extra night in a hotel when there are exceptional circumstances that would release the airline from the liability for that.

With regards to renters insurance, I always assumed that the school from where I rent, would have this priced into the price of rental?

Me too.

But now that I'm thinking about it - you might also want to check your (domestic) life insurance if you have any. (And there might be one attached to your mortgage.) Some of these specifically exclude private flying, or place significant limits on them.

[Bearcat F8F]

But now that I'm thinking about it - you might also want to check your (domestic) life insurance (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7369525&noquote=1#) if you have any. (And there might be one attached to your mortgage.) Some of these specifically exclude private flying, or place significant limits on them. I don't have any. I might send the school an email and find out though. Seems strange to me if any flying school was to send up any of it's students or renters uninsured. Surely that has to be illegal?

[englishal]

Silly question of mine, but what does that cover ? Surely not accidental death or lifetime disability payments ?
It was essentially the same as an annual travel insurance policy but it also covered flying (and Skiing) risks. So if you're injured while flying, or worse, then the policy will pay out up to its limit, which was about a million if I recall correctly.

Wouldn't cover the rented aeroplane.

[dont overfil]

I have used both PJ Hayman and Traffords for flying in the USA and Bahamas. Last year for 17 days Hayman was £105 and Traffords £95 with slight differences in the level of cover. Your age and any medication you take may make a difference. I did not bother with baggage cover as we had only carry on luggage. with a few T shirts, knickers and toilet bag.

Renters insurance is only very occasionally included in the hire. It covers you for third party damage (not compulsory in the USA) and excess.

Air Orlando under its previous management included it.

D.O.

[SunnyDayInWiltshire]

I had been looking at an annual policy and wanted to know what the excess was to include private flying cover. The basic family policy includes winter sports, worldwide travel etc but specifically excludes a variety of more hazardous activities.

The supplement was quoted to me at £3.70 per day per person for the US, £3.15 worldwide excluding US/Canada or £1.56 in Europe only. The US quote excluded personal liability and personal accident cover. It's hard to see what that actually buys you - I'm assuming you'd still need renters insurance to cover any damage excess in case of an accident.

It does seem a bit of a minefield. I had rung Traffords after passing my PPL to ask whether they thought I needed any cover, but was told to forget it until I bought an aircraft. My company provide benefits including life insurance etc which specifically include private flying activity, so no problem there.

This would make for a good magazine article if someone could take the time to research it and explain it thoroughly.

['India-Mike]

They got back to me with a quote for £165. That covers me up to 35 days. Doesn't sound very cheap!

Ooof. Checked - was indeed £80 inc. IPT. Double in a year seems a lot. But then again the insurance industry's got a lot to pay for (Fukushima, etc, etc)

[Maoraigh1]

£262 for annual world wide travel, including flying light aircraft, at age 71. Cover runs over into age 72. Haywards, starting 6 August 2012. I've had this for several years, with no claims so far. They also cover our Group plane.

[Bearcat F8F]

Ooof. Checked - was indeed £80 inc. IPT. Double in a year seems a lot. But then again the insurance industry's got a lot to pay for (Fukushima, etc, etc)
Bare in mind that I am only 20. That might have something to do with it. Still a lot though.

['India-Mike]

Well, I was £80 - and my 19 year old son was £80. So I don't think it'll be an age thing.

[custardpsc]

+1 for Haywards, I use them too. You 'll get an aviation questionaire to fill in. I included float and twin training on an annual policy for a total yearly premium of nearly £300 for worldwide cover

[Bearcat F8F]

Went with Traffords in the end. Quite a lot but doesn't seem like I had a huge amount of options.

[Cusco]

Don't fly in USA without Renters' Insurance.

This covers the 'deductibles' (i.e. excess) which the FBO policy won't cover.

I took out renters insurance in 2006 for flying in USA for the very first time.

IIRC it was $120:from a US company.

I had good reason to thank my lucky stars as I had an incident and the ins co. coughed up the $5,000 deductible without a peep.

Also on the topic of personal insurance if flying abroad/USA remember the worst case (well nearly) scenario of the cost if you needed to be medevac ed home halfway around the world.

Money spent on insurance is money well spent IMHO.Traffords are pretty good.

(well I say they're pretty good and I've used them for years, but never had to make a claim)

Cusco

[Maoraigh1]

I'd like to know the company. As an alien I've never been able to get Renter's Insurance in the US, and I'm planning to return in the autumn. (I've been able to get written agreements with an acceptable deductable - about what I have with our Group machine.)

[stevelup]

I arranged mine through the US AOPA website. It was $185 and valid for one year. The premium was made up of $85 for bodily injury and property damage, and $99 for physical damage to the aircraft.

[Peter Geldard]

Renter's Insurance is a must if hiring in the USA. Most FBO's only offer the minimum of cover and in a litigious country like Uncle Sam, one's liabilities after an accident could be horrendous.
The AOPA scheme is the simplest & the best; but last time I was in the States they would only insure if one had a US 'permanent' address.
I was fortunate that 'mine host' was happy with me using his home as my 'residence'.
UK AOPA was trying to persuade US AOPA to remove this restriction (since most UK's hire when in the States) but I haven't heard of the outcome.

[Maoraigh1]

After talking to insurance guys, at the Rocky Mountain Fly-in in 2010, I'm not sure using someone elses address would be valid, if it came to a claim. They gave there reasons for not covering non-residents.

[stevelup]

I phoned them to check before I did it. They told me to put my address as:-

My Name C/O The FBO I Rented From
FBO's Address

I did it the week before I travelled out there - my paperwork was sat waiting at the FBO when I got there.