Qantas returns to OOL

[600ft-lb]

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/qantas-ceo-alan-joyce-to-announce-airlines-return-to-the-gold-coast/story-fndo45r1-1226449044251)
AFTER deserting the Gold Coast five years ago, Qantas will today announce it is returning.

Qantas heavyweights including CEO Alan Joyce will fly to the Gold Coast for the announcement this afternoon.

They will be joined by Premier Campbell Newman and Tourism Minister Jann Stuckey.

It is understood Qantas revised its Gold Coast strategy after a spate of complaints following its decision to withdraw.

The decision comes after Virgin Australia recently committed to increasing its Gold Coast services, including the establishment of a business branch.

Amazing what a bit of real competition does..

[dragon man]

The d**kheads. Wouldnt listen to anyone. Whats next Maroochydore, Cairns , who knows. I wonder what the board thinks of this wonderfull backflip?

[The Green Goblin]

Oh no!

You're stealing our flying!

We need equal pay and conditions to Jetstar else we are going to wear orange ties :8

Good to see the rat expanding for once hey!

[goodonyamate]

More to come. The 737 is about to get really busy again.:ok:

[denabol]

Family member who works for DJ just pointed me at this rather hilarious report about how this leaves Jetstar trapped in da middle.

Qantas reconnects with Gold Coast | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/08/13/qantas-reconnects-with-gold-coast/)

[catch18]

Qantas competing with Jetstar on the same routes.

This will end in tears.

[Toruk Macto]

Emerites are telling Q where they want the 737,s to operate too !

[Jack Ranga]

Qantas are expanding are they?

Not an original thought in the wee one's little head is there??

[wrongwayaround]

Oldmate Joyce doesn't know if he's Arthur or Martha!

[Mstr Caution]

It's Strambie, now given the reins to run QF Domestic as its own enterprise.

The board knows Strambie will walk into another international carrier job unless he runs domestic the way he wants to.

[piston broke again]

Probably one of the smartest ideas they have had for a while. Pity it took a whole lot of wasted money, pi$$ed off passengers, job losses to see the light. And the cost of fixing the mistake??? When are these buffoons going to be held accountable??

[teresa green]

Well they better get their act together, JQ run a good system out of OOL. No plastic bread rolls (half frozen) and stale carrot cake, thanks QF if you want to succeed. We all have memories of yesterdays bread and tomorrows fruit on those runs.

[framer]

More to come. The 737 is about to get really busy again.

Whats the rumour?

[Sonny Hammond]

'after a spate of complaints' ???????

5 years of complaints? It takes QF THAT LONG to respond to customer feedback?
I remember when they pulled the pin on OOL. There was newspaper articles pointing out the dissatisfaction of the decision. Didn't stop them though.

No wonder the joint is buggered.

[The The]

5 years of complaints?

Goes back even further to 2004 when Jetstar took over all MEL-OOL and left only 2 flights per day SYD-OOL.

Remember Gold Coast Bulletin headlines "We're no Hicksville"

I guess if you complain long and hard enough (with a little help from DJ)..............

[Mstr Caution]

I wonder what the board think of this wonderful backflip?


If my sources are correct. I think the boards behind it. Strambie's been told to protect the "line in the sand".

[wilcoleaks]

There is an Age Old parable in the Bible about building things on Sand.

It ends badly:{

[ejectx3]

"Our pax told us that they wanted a full service airline flying to OOL– and we have listened"

What a bunch of transparent bullcrap from the geniuses running this basket case of an airline.

You were told the moment you pulled out. You ignored it until virgin had taken all your premium pax, and when you couldn't keep your orange colored heads stuck in the Golden sands any longer . You tout this as an initiative and expect us to cheer you on ?

You didn't listen to complaints or reason or logic or plain common sense, you only made this revolutionary decision when even blind Freddy could see it was a huge mistake to pull out.

Yes it's great we are flying back but spare us the rubbish. It's qf playing its normal game of reactive management , probably all too late as usual.

Buffoons.

[maggot]

Whats the rumour?


I've also heard a rumour of a rumour about the 737 and getting busy etc

but i'd believe it when I see it (and I'd love to see it so I'll leave it there...)

:P

[SandyPalms]

More to come. The 737 is about to get really busy again.
Whats the rumour?


15 More. Just out of curiosity. Does JQ reduce OOL service?

[Keg]

Some interesting points made on the Gold coast Bulletin (http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/08/13/436583_gold-coast-news.html).

Slow learners but a positive move none the less. As Ben Sandilands points out, I wonder what this will do to Jetstar?!?!

[StallBoy]

Here is a few other destiations Qantas could look at:-

Paris
Athens
Rome
Singapore to Hk QA77 should return
Buenos Aries
Saigon

Wouldn't it be good to see the old world airline flying again????:ok:

[mikk_13]

Maybe they did it because Emirates doesn't want to code share jetstar flights.

[73to91]

"Our pax told us that they wanted a full service airline flying to OOL– and
we have listened"

What a bunch of transparent bullcrap from the geniuses
running this basket case of an airline.


What about the pax who have told you that they want a full service airline flying to DPS from MEL/PER/SYD? and

a full service airline flying to HNL from BNE/MEL/SYD? (daily at least rather than the 3 QF do now)?

etc, etc, etc.

Who was responsible for 'gifting' the routes to JQ in the 1st place, to ensure that JQ looked good?

So, who is working on the reverse now? Is AJ going to work against JQ now? Is it the board? Or is it Emirates? interesting.

[SandyPalms]

Looks like the answer is yes. JQ reduce to 10 per day, down from 13. Wow, QF at the expense of JQ. Times have changed.

[ohallen]

The problem with all of this is Qf believe we will just forget how they gouged the fares and then abandoned the route to crapstar.

Justice would dictate that DJ be supported in this blatant attempt to recover. Never forget that if DJ are beaten to a pulp, the Rat will do what they have already done.

[600ft-lb]

Nah, the general populace will do what they always do. Select the cheapest price for the most convenient time that they can get away with.

[Goddamnslacker]

Now the smart move would be to scrap Jetstar flying from Syd to Ool, that would be a brain child....Ool should be a major traffic route for QF Domestic

[Worrals in the wilds]

"Our pax told us that they wanted a full service airline flying to OOL– and we have listened"One of the wealthiest areas in Queensland (if not Australia) and people wanted full service? Who'd have thunk it...:rolleyes:
Select the cheapest price for the most convenient time that they can get away with. Even in post GFC times the number of luxury cars, yachts and five story mansions that grace the Gold Coast suggest otherwise. There's certainly a market for LCC (both tourist and local), but many of the residents like luxury service and are happy to fork over the cash. IMO operating some Jetstar flights out of OOL was a smart move, but completely withdrawing full service flights wasn't.

[wrongwayaround]

I've just seen the red-email hit my inbox boasting "happy to be back"...
Qantas are also boasting the fact that they serve a meal "to all passengers in every class, on every flight"...

A meal on a flight- why don't virgin bite the proverbial bullet and start doing this too.

Personally I think it'd go a long way for the airline. Although virgin are doing really well... I think a meal provided would see more people flying with them?

[Worrals in the wilds]

Dunno. I usually can't eat them so I see it as an unnecessary expense. I've always liked the Virgin 'buy it if you want it' philosophy when it comes to meals, blankies, IFE etc. I don't really need any of those things on a two hour flight; I'm sitting in a chair, not a hiking up Mount Lindesay.

To me, full service is about backup when there's a problem with the flight (rather than having to sleep at the airport, hire a car or hitch a ride with a truck pointing in the right direction :ouch:), leg room, a classy aircraft interior and nice staff. I don't mind paying for extras as required, as long as what comes with the ticket is clearly specified.

IME what Virgin do provide is an efficient, friendly service in comfortable aircraft, with the right number of staff to make the trip a pleasant experience. I know the difference between full service and LCC is getting a bit grey these days, but for me, on a short haul domestic flight a 'free' meal (that's factored into the ticket price) isn't a key part of it.

Put another way; I'd rather have an efficent paid drinks service than a free one from an alleged full service carrier that never eventuates, or a 'free' Yowie special meal (rumoured to exist and often promised, but never yet seen by reliable witnesses :}).

Alternatively, I don't want to arrive at the airport to be told 'aircraft's broken, find your own way home, there's no refund and bugger you' :(. That's my perception (maybe incorrect) of LCC a la Jetstar and Tiger, and that's why I don't fly with them.

[teresa green]

Well at least it will hone your flying skills lads, no ILS and on a dark and stormy night its a delight to behold. OOl has scared the sh$t out of most pilots, more than just about anywhere else on this continent, but hey if the JQ cowboys can do it, should be a piece of cake hey?

[ejectx3]

RNP(ar) has taken all the fun out of it.

The good old days of 320 knot downwind for left circuit are behind us sadly.

[Helmut Smokar]

It was always going to happen in a market with a true premium competitor. Qantas has been fortunate until Virgins recent entry into the Bussiness market. For a case study in reducing yields and corporate stupidity look no further than British Airways folly with GoFly.
Dixon repeated it with Jetstar. This will be the tip of the iceberg, watch mainline return to most of the ports it serendered to Jetstar and Jetstar try to survive truly trying to develop new markets.
What a pack of clowns :hmm:
I'm still waiting to hear how much profit Jetstars international operations have contributed to the Qantas group :rolleyes: can we get that bonus back Dixon?

[Keg]

This will be the tip of the iceberg, watch mainline return to most of the ports it serendered to Jetstar and Jetstar try to survive truly trying to develop new markets.

I remarked to one of the management pilots at work yesterday that who would have thought that it would be Borghetti as head of Virgin Australia that would be the one that is still benefiting Qantas mainline crews.

[an3_bolt]

I think the challenge was 330 kts to Surfa........and hope for no tailwind on base:ooh:

[Lookleft]

What was the answer Keg?

[600ft-lb]

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-to-return-to-the-gold-coast/story-e6frg95x-1226449604274)

The Qantas flights will deliver 1000 extra seats into the Gold Coast daily and nearly 400,000 additional seats each year.


3x738=1000??

Maybe they let slip further expansion of the mainline

[ejectx3]

Looks like JB is doing a great job if running both virgin and qantas....

[Oceania1]

Good to see QF Back on this route. Lets see if we can get some others back maybe MEL.

3 x 738 (12/156) = 504 in and 504 out. = 1008 (marketing speaking it up)

Times on the QF Web site eff 29/10/12 are 0815/1250/1740 departures so no issues of night ops.

[happy clapper]

As for Engineering coverage in OOL,
Me old mate Sniggih will be heading a well greased crew of 4 to help,
Sniggih will be a DMM,Sitting like Jabba the Hut behind a desk
2 x Leading Hands,Licking Jabba's drool
and 1 AME to do all the work.
It appears since his Time in BNE he hasn't managed to fill any of his seats on his train set,Apparently those BNE Lames are a bit tougher than the push overs up here in FNQ.
Watch out OOL Sniggih is on the way

[34R]

Most of Virgins decisions are being made because they choose to make them. As always, all of QF's decisions are being made because they HAVE to, either as a result of being left behind or playing catch up because of bad decisions in the past.
I can't think of one idea to come out of the ivory towers in Mascot that even mildly resemble an original thought. To claim this announcement is them listening to their customers is as baffling as their latest advertising campaign.

Also had to laugh at the timing of the media huddle on the tarmac. What did the camera briefly zoom in on as the pudgy little Irishman revelled in self glory? A VA 737 rolling out behind him.

[ratpoison]

What was the answer Keg?
Remember, he was talking to 'management'. Thus, there would not have been an answer!:rolleyes:

[Going Nowhere]

1000 seats daily would be 3 flights up and back

6 x 168 = 1008.

I Know the say into, but hey, they've told fibs before! :E

[Keg]

lookleft, he didn't argue with the logic. He hoped that we would be more proactive in the future and that this was a good start.

[1A_Please]

QF are also advertising their return to OOL in the Melbourne Herald-Sun today which is a bit bizarre given the new flights are SYD-OOL and MEL-OOL remains JQ. Its all tied to some competition that you are eligible to win if you fly on a QF coded flight which for Melburnians means a JQ codeshare....the fineprint tells the true story!!!
:ugh:

[pondoklabu]

Guys this has nothing to do with Qantas management or jet star. It's Emirates who are about to announce a whole range of code sharing on QF domestic. This as been a sticking point for over a year, Qantas have pushed code sharing on jetstar and Emirates have repeatedly said no. Now Qantas have given in so they have to return to some old ports so Emirates can gave a presence.
There will be organic growth for QF domestic and a continual shrinkage of QF international and jetstar international will struggle with QF putting PAXS on Emirates instead of Jetstar.

[QF94]

Guys this has nothing to do with Qantas management or jet star. It's Emirates who are about to announce a whole range of code sharing on QF domestic. This as been a sticking point for over a year, Qantas have pushed code sharing on jetstar and Emirates have repeatedly said no. Now Qantas have given in so they have to return to some old ports so Emirates can gave a presence.
There will be organic growth for QF domestic and a continual shrinkage of QF international and jetstar international will struggle with QF putting PAXS on Emirates instead of Jetstar.

I'd have to go along with this prognosis. The only original plans this management have been able to come up with are to reduce sectors and the most original of all, shutting down the airline for a couple of days. What's old is new again?!?!

[standard unit]

+1 for pondoklabu.

These clowns don't have the ability to do anything else.

[Eastwest Loco]

:ok:

Service seems to commence 01NOV ex SYD at 0700, 1145 and 1635 with returns ex OOL at 0815, 1250 and 1740.

Yay that!! Can only help Surfer's Palestine recover from the gigantic shift in demographic that occurred when the full service Airline operations ceased.

Same goes for the Sunshine Coast. Many older connecting passengers out of regional areas, or bigger cities for that matter couldn't and still can't get their heads or bodies around changing carriers, collecting bags etc and went elswhere with their high disposable income only leaving the gap to be filled with the shallow end of the gene pool and Schoolies. Same thing really I guess.

Hence the trade moved from fine dining to pizzas and kebabs!

The locals will be beside themselves as well.

Now - where did I leave that fleet of green and gold F28s?????:sad:

Best all

EWL

[Keg]

Second hand info (not from management dude I was talking to yesterday) but apparently MEL-OOL is also on the agenda for a return by QF. :ok:

[Fantome]

" Now - where did I leave that fleet of green and gold F28s?????"


Somehow, just somehow, you might have saved them for RON.

[wrongwayaround]

Quote: them listening to their customers is as baffling as their latest advertising campaign.


Absolute gold :D

[goodonyamate]

As well as Hamo, and a stack of FIFO from the east coast. 15 additional airframes.

[ejectx3]

Back to hamilton would be brilliant! Really enjoy flying into that joint . No pun intended :-)

[Eastwest Loco]

Yep Fantome - aahhhhh the roar of unhushed Speys!!! DAMMIT - another pair of undies ruined:O

Unfortunately much of the old team has been melted down for teaspoons, Hyundais

The days of the majority of the capacity SYD OOL having a green belly are gone but I am so chuffed the Rat is back into OOL. It puts it back on my radar as a holiday spot.

MCY as I said would benefit, and Hammo definitely could use their presence. I have had numerous clients go up and over CNS to pick up the Dash to avoid (sorry DJ & JQ people) the LCCs - even the LCCs aiming at psuedo lecacy status. Starting a premium holiday on a LCC is bad, but finishing it on one is worse. My higher end clients reflect that and have just been going somewhere else. Hayman and JQ unfortunately do not sit in the same sentence nicely. Your high end client coming from overseas is not going to be chuffed with the seating, despite the best efforts of the cabin crew, which by all accounts from clients has improved immesuarably over the last 18 months.

Impressed however that DJ goes live in Sabre in October. That makes them very much easier to sell.

Overall, a rollback of stupid decisons that should be embraced.

I know my staff and I will be offering the QF all the way option ex DPO and look forward to MEL OOL restarting.

Sort of like bringing back the old TN488/489. Anyone got a spare B727-276????:D:D That would make all right with the world.

Best all

EWL

[QF94]

stallboy

Here is a few other destiations Qantas could look at:-

Paris
Athens
Rome
Singapore to Hk QA77 should return
Buenos Aries
Saigon

Wouldn't it be good to see the old world airline flying again????http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

QANTAS has looked at them in the past, and that's where they're staying. In the past. More of the old domestic "holiday" destinations will slowly return to the fold. International will be left to dry.

[Transition Layer]

Here's a thought...

By increasing capacity into both OOL and MCY, QF doesn't need to grow capacity through the clusterf*ck that is BNE airport these days. Those delays must be starting to hurt.

I'm sure plenty of people north and south of Brisbane drive to BNE to get on a red tail, I know I do if holidaying in Noosa or on the Gold Coast.

[Toruk Macto]

Emirates Domestic (Aust) .

[1A_Please]

If QF need to bring back more domestic red-tail routes maybe they need to lower the cost base of the mainline operation...maybe using Eastern/Sunstate to fly red-tail A320s would solve the problem...:rolleyes:

[griffin one]

How about a 744 to HNL three times a week. even flying J* 330 is better then the clapped out 767, projected ife and two crt tv screens that are so washed out that your iphone is a better inflight experience.
Bring back the Jumbo Hawaii holiday.

[Captain Gidday]

Sorry G1, your Jumbo Holiday to HNL is pie in the sky.
All the 744s are either
a) at their 'use by date', or perhaps that should be their 'best before' date. OR
b) fully committed elsewhere, i.e. the Newbie Nine, which are the newest three Rollers, OJS, OJT and OJU and the 6 -ERs OEE-OEJ.
Can't even cover Frankfurt with these 9 aircraft, the only ones to be left in about 18 months, once you provide for the routes SYD-LAX-JFK, BNE-LAX, SYD-SCL, SYD-JNB, SYD-DFW and vice versa, hence the mutterings about Europe is a basket case, etc. even with full loads. In fact, with only 9 744s, I don't think Santiago can be covered either. Expect a propaganda campaign soon along the lines of 'we are not making money on South America, will have to gift the route to Lan Chile, our Oneworld codeshare partner etc. etc.'
SYD-HNL would be an ideal route for an A380 though, except there is no spare capacity on that fleet either, now that deliveries have been 'deferred' until 2020 or whenever.
Some 787-9s to plug the gaps? Maybe. Go hard Simon. Make your case to the Leprechaun.

[standard unit]

Can't even cover Frankfurt with these 9 aircraft, the only ones to be left in about 18 months, once you provide for the routes SYD-LAX-JFK, BNE-LAX, SYD-SCL, SYD-JNB, SYD-DFW and vice versa, hence the mutterings about Europe is a basket case

FWIW ground staff in Frankfurt claim that QF operational contracts were renewed two weeks ago for the next two years.

[Captain Gidday]

Can an A330 do BKK-FRA with an economic payload? In winter?
Are we thread drifting?

[drop bear ten]

Depends if it is a Qantas A330 or a Jetstar A330 :E

[Eastwest Loco]

LAX AKL punching into the jetstream is an FTI of 13:00 hrs and SIN FRA is 12:45 hrs without the possibility of a 3 hour limp to safety if half the noise stops, so from how this non pilot sees it it is doable in an A332.

Please feel free to pluck the budgie here, as I am just working on raw data available to me.

best all

EWL

[teresa green]

EWL, don't. I often sit at OOL and imagine the ol girls sitting on the deck TN488/9 and wish they were still there, but life goes on. What a shame we are all in so much in a hurry that we really don't appreciate what we have. A fine aircraft at our disposal, a good wage, a good lifestyle, a stress break from family life, and doing what we all love doing so much. And all we can think is" sh$t, five sectors today" It is not until retirement that you realise what you had, and are grateful.

[ohallen]

TG, I dont think the average employee has changed that much, they still just want to do what they love, do it well and have some reasonable recognition (non monetary) and the rest then falls into place. The problem is the employees, companies and even the brand have been made commodities that are traded off for benefits. Current management represent the new era of executive rank behaviour. JB was not of the same ilk and he was cut adrift because he didn't fit in.

See there was a new rush of national icon blood as the Olympians were brought home today, but sadly I suspect it will soon be forgotten again as the game recommences.

[The Green Goblin]

When I saw the QF roller equipped 744 roll in, I was wondering if in four years it will be a chartered Emirates 777 :8

[standard unit]

Yes and interesting that they played via a PA system as the athletes left the aircraft the old kids choir, " I Still Call Australia Home" and not the new dirge.


'All I did was cry': emotional homecoming for Olympians (http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/news-london-2012/all-i-did-was-cry-emotional-homecoming-for-olympians-20120815-247cc.html)

[teresa green]

Perhaps Ohallen, but have things really changed? Any TAA pilot will tell you the company motto was "go along with us and we will stick the bat up your A#se everytime". Sound familiar? They treated pilots fairly badly, they would say you not going to PNG, so you bought a house, then they sent you to PNG, then they said you are going to HBA, so you sold your house, then they said your staying in MEL. This is for real, I don't think this sort of thing goes on anymore, but it did nothing for marriages or relationships, but they could not give a ratz ar#e. But for all of that is sure beat selling shoes, or stuffing olives.

[drshmoo]

QF listening to customers. What a joke. Thank you JB for being the true leader we should have had. Thank you for leading VB and it's push into the domestic business market which has made that fool at my work look at shelving (no pun) 100% crapstar to former affluent QF destinations. I'll bet JB is laughing his ass off at the bumbling fools in bull**** castle unrolling their poor decisions (faces red) by this reversal due to VB positive push into the business market!
JB keep up the good work.

[SandyPalms]

Wasn't JB running Qantas when they pulled out of OOL?

[ejectx3]

No Uncle Geoff was "running" it

[drshmoo]

During the "gifting routes" era!

[teresa green]

Isn't it time to offer JB a block of flats to come back, or is he going to make them suffer a bit longer?

[QF94]

Isn't it time to offer JB a block of flats to come back, or is he going to make them suffer a bit longer?

After what they did to him and sent him on his way virtually saying there is no room for you in QANTAS, why would he want to come back, and I don't think QANTAS would have enough in the bank to bring him back, unless of course he is AJ's replacement.

Now there's a thought!!

[wrongwayaround]

Prayer answered????
Quote:
Virgin Australia will offer hot meals, beverages and alcohol (after midday) to all passengers on its transcontinental Perth services from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane from 26 September, when it adds a fifth A330-200 to its fleet

From:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/08/15/virgin-australia-to-feed-transcontinental-masses-for-free/

[diddly squat]

I bet the QF crew are excited about the return. Long layovers in the surf, argh, they were the days. :ok:

[Angle of Attack]

Well looking at the schedules put up prior looks like there is no aircraft overnighting, so no layovers.... It will be a good place to show the benefits of RNP-AR approaches though getting you down to an ILS similar DA in the crappy weather they get there in summer. I know virgin dont do them yet, not sure if Jetstar does.

[diddly squat]

Cooly will have an ILS operational by the end of the year anyway. :ok:

[ejectx3]

Which runway is the ils gong into again please?

[drshmoo]

JB can do more for the escalation of QF domestic as Virgin Australia CEO than he can do back at QF with his hands tied by all the Dixon/Joyce appointed sycophants that are so caught up in "make JQ work at all costs" model!

[Jetstarpilot]

ejectx3 Which runway is the ils gong into again please?

*yawn* Who cares?? You jocks needs to tufen up! Just shoot to the minima then circle round like everyone else in the wold does!:rolleyes:

Princesses!!:{

[Mstr Caution]

http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1486.pdf

Jetstar pilot.

Some light reading for you about circling approaches.

Unfortunately we can't tell the 304 people killed during circling approaches over a two year period to toughen up. Their no longer with us.

The worldwide trend is to avoid circling approaches where possible.

[drshmoo]

While we are at it perhaps a brush up for the VOR approach steps and the control steps for Air Asia X coming into OOL. Good luck runs out eventually!

The ILS cannot come fast enough for this place.

I think most professional organisations have moved on from circling approaches.

[FFG 02]

Jetstar pilot
"You jocks needs to tufen up! Just shoot to the minima then circle round like everyone else in the wold does!"

Haven't Jetstar recently banned circling approaches?

[Lookleft]

I doubt that Jetstar Pilot is even a JSP or even a pilot. Usually he chucks in a hand grenade then vacates the forum. With RNP-AR Jetstar pilots don't need to do circling approaches into Coolie and as FFG-02 states they are not to do them anyway. Finally if JSP knew what he/she was on about they would have to know that circling is the least suitable option to get into OOL when the weather sets in.

[The Green Goblin]

I smell a rat!

While circling approaches are fun to do in the sim or on a fair weather day, they are a different kettle of fish at night in poor weather close to the minima.

I certainly won't be missing them during cyclics :ok:

[myshoutcaptain]

Toughen up and do it in the King Air not the 172SP on MS Flight Sim :D

[teresa green]

So have they found coal seam gas in the sourthern hill or the northern hill? Must have for a ILS to go in there.

[Jetstarpilot]

Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men so says Douglas Bader.... WWII jock

[Lookleft]

How about this for a quote "On prune many a d#$&head pretends to be a Jetstarpilot"